Cable size between main & aux batteries?

Submitted: Tuesday, Oct 11, 2005 at 14:11
ThreadID: 27180 Views:2979 Replies:3 FollowUps:12
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In my dual battery setup I have two cranking batteries connected with:
- a Redarc CP12V isolator (100A)
- what Jaycar calls 8guage wire (claimed 56A continuous rating .. although some posts on this site say 8g = 7.91mm2 = 74A)
- 60A fuses adjacent to each +ve bty post (based on what i originally thought was 74A cable!)
I only want to use this circuit for charging the aux bty.

What i still cannot understand is this ... in the event that i have discharged the aux battery (Extreme Exide 86EX) considerably, then what is the highest initial (peak) charging current that i can expect through this circuit? ... ie: what is the limiting factor on the peak charging current .. the internal resistance of the aux bty itself? What is stopping the full charge from the alternator through this circuit & therefore always blowing the fuses?

The only post with a partial answer is post 26948 where "V8 Troopie" says "... if the aux bty is there just to run a fridge etc, then cables capable of passing 50A or so for a short time are adequate. 50A is plenty to charge the bty and it will drop quickly anyway as the bty takes up charge" .. but again, what is limiting the peak charge to 50A?
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Reply By: Leroy - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2005 at 14:51

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2005 at 14:51
why get cables that are just adequate? Get cable the same diameter as the battery cables you have ie 4ag. The extra cost is a few bucks/meter over the 8ag. This will also give you the capability of jump starting your primary from your secondary in the event that you flatten your primary.

Leroy
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Follow Up By: Member - Drew T (VIC) - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2005 at 14:55

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2005 at 14:55
thanks Leroy .. however, i don't want to use this circuit for jump starting; in that rare event i'm quite happy to use my jumper cables. However i do want to understand what is the max charging current so i can establish whether the cable etc i've used is adequate or not (you never know - it may prove to be more than adequate!)
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Follow Up By: Leroy - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2005 at 15:06

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2005 at 15:06
You would have to flatten a battery and measure the in rush current with a scope. Or I would have a chat to an auto elec.

Leroy
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Follow Up By: Member - MrBitchi (QLD) - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2005 at 15:16

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2005 at 15:16
Do you have a winch? If so you should use a BIG cable so you can use it in parallel for winching.
When I first got my dual battery set-up it was wired with 6mm cable rated at 50A I believe. This was always more then adequate for charging purposes. I later had that upgraded to starter cable and wired up the auxillary switch on the Redarc so I could use it for jump starting if required. Peace of mind for the missus ;-)

Cheers....
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Follow Up By: sudsy - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2005 at 15:51

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2005 at 15:51
as Leroy said: speak to an auto electrician.
He will be able to do the calculations for the right size cable

If your batteries are some distance from each other you can get voltage drop which heats up the cable so you may need heavier cable
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Reply By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2005 at 15:21

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2005 at 15:21
Drew I can give you some cable to do it, its about 35mm2 Cu flexible, thats what I used
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Follow Up By: Member - Drew T (VIC) - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2005 at 15:47

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2005 at 15:47
Hey Bonz that would be great ..... where are you located (i live in Heidelberg & work in the city)
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2005 at 18:05

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2005 at 18:05
I am down near Warrnambool, and if youre not desperate, can drop it off in two weeks or so, will get a couple of logs crimped onto the ends too if you like. What length you want?
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Follow Up By: Member - Drew T (VIC) - Wednesday, Oct 12, 2005 at 07:49

Wednesday, Oct 12, 2005 at 07:49
yeah that would be great .. i'm in no hurry. just measured it up & its 450mm to the isolator, then 2750mm to the aux bty. i take it that nobody puts fuses in this stuff? just give me a call on 0411-102059 when you're ready & let me know where to meet you / pick it up. thanks again
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Wednesday, Oct 12, 2005 at 07:56

Wednesday, Oct 12, 2005 at 07:56
2750mm...where's your extra battery? are they both under the bonnet? No wonder you're having trouble deciding on what size cable to use.
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Follow Up By: Member - Drew T (VIC) - Wednesday, Oct 12, 2005 at 08:29

Wednesday, Oct 12, 2005 at 08:29
aux bty is on the opposite side of the engine bay ... 2750mm to go from the isolator back to the firewall & all the way around!! just checked my measurements & its correct.
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Wednesday, Oct 12, 2005 at 09:39

Wednesday, Oct 12, 2005 at 09:39
no worries, i'll give you a call, and go measure mine, i have the redarc too
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Follow Up By: Mainey (WA) - Wednesday, Oct 12, 2005 at 10:03

Wednesday, Oct 12, 2005 at 10:03
Drew, that is a similar size, 32mm2 as I have used and so often been told by some it's too large and extreme.... Yes, it's large, and it works.

It's approx 2B&S cable size, and I'm very happy to see it's offered to you as it will remedy your problem. You will then see that the smaller cable that was installed was undersized and possibly only used because it saves money not batteries.
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Reply By: Ken - Tuesday, Oct 11, 2005 at 16:25

Tuesday, Oct 11, 2005 at 16:25
Drew, it is hard to answer your question direcly however this may help you understand what is happening to the batteries.
The amount of current that can flow in any circuit is dependant on the voltage applied and the resistance of the circuit. In the case of an alternator trying to charge batteries there is a further complicating factor in determining the max current that will flow which is that the alternator senses the battery voltage and adjusts its output voltage accordingly.

The amount of current that will flow in a circuit can be calculated by the formula

I = E/R Where I = current, E = voltage, R = resistance

In the simple case where the 2 batteries at different voltages are connected together without the motor running the current calculation is:

Say the main batt voltage is 12.4v and the aux battery is 11.2v and the resistance of the cable, clamps, connectors etc. is say 0.06 ohms.
The difference in voltages is 1.2v.

I = 1.2/0.06 = 20 Amps

With the alternator charging a different situation applies. The alternator output is connected to the main battery and it will sense this voltage and regulate the alternator output voltage to what it calculates is required to charge the main battery.
Under some conditions this could be as high as 14 volts in which case the charging current could be at or close to the max alternator output, say 60 - 80 amps. Pushing this sort of current into the battery will soon raise the battery voltage and the regulator in the alternator will sense this and begin to reduce its output current.

In the example above if the circuit resistance is the same and the battery voltages are now 11.2v and 14v the difference in voltage is now 2.8v

I = 2.8/0.06 = 46.66 A

This is the max current that will flow between the batteries under the conditions specified. Clearly the less resistance in the connection between the batteries the better and this means heavier wire. In the example above the voltage drop on the connection cable can also be calculated from the formula by making E the subject.

So E (voltage drop) = I x R = 20 X 0.06 = 1.2v

This would mean the aux battery will never in fact charge fully. This is the problem with many dual battery systems and why batteries are ruined after little use sometimes.
These are just typical values for voltage and resistance and I'm not saying they necessarily apply in your case but you can see the factors that control current flow.

Simple answer is runa as heavier cable as you can fit in and keep the number of joins, connectors etc as few as possible.
Good luck.

Ken



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Follow Up By: Member - Drew T (VIC) - Wednesday, Oct 12, 2005 at 07:49

Wednesday, Oct 12, 2005 at 07:49
thanks for that excellent answer Ken. now i understand!!
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