Landcruiser vs Patrol - a different slant NGAS

Submitted: Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 09:26
ThreadID: 27325 Views:3010 Replies:11 FollowUps:9
This Thread has been Archived
I was thinking about 'the great debate' this morning and it occured to me that most of the supposed 'facts' are irrelevant if you don't factor in one critical and crucial element.

Not giving a sh*t. NGAS is a crucial factor in off-road ability and probably outweighs many of the areas discussed at length here about the virtues of different 4x4's and accessories. I've finally realised the time honoured Toyota vs Nissan debate becomes purely academic when you're out in the field and watching who actually goes where. I'm talking real life here, not on the internet or around BBQ's.

A fully kitted out late model 4x4 for 99.5% of the population will never be as effective off-road as a basher will.

Why? Because the owners care about them, that's why. In THEORY, a fully equipped and accessorised GU will go just about anywhere, but in real life it's a totally different story.

The moment you are not willing to accept serious panel damage, roll-overs, ruined tyres and mechanical breakages is the moment that the argument becomes simply armchair theory. True.

Spend as much as you like on bits and pieces, an old basher driven using the NGAS principal will leave all the shiny 4x4's parked at the bottom of the hill. Add abit of NGAS to the tank and the newies will most certainly beat it - but it NEVER happens. I've sat at the bottom of hills I know I can climb because it also know that it will dent my doors and wipe off my mirrors. Theory vs Practice. My big buck 4x4 loses, the old POS wins.

I know this post is stating the bloody obvious, but if you apply NGAS awareness to most of the arguments on the forums, it completely changes the outcomes. Re-read a few posts and try it. Bottom line is a dented and rolled $5,000 Suzuki with big boots and lockers will outperform 99.99999999% of GU's and 100 series when it comes to the crunch in a real life challenge. No question about it.

I choose my vehicles for other reasons, but those who get too caught up in the great debate should keep in mind that when it comes down to it, you have to be prepared to do it, not just talk about it. Any brand of 4x4, and all the accessories in the world won't change that.

Next time the great debate becomes a little heated, ask how much NGAS they carry with them. That is what really determines a 4x4's ability in the REAL WORLD.

Just my thought for the day:-)

Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Member - Jay Gee (WA) - Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 10:14

Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 10:14
Define NGAS please
AnswerID: 134892

Follow Up By: crfan - Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 11:26

Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 11:26
It's in the second paragraph Not Giving A Sh1t
0
FollowupID: 388900

Reply By: ev700 - Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 10:22

Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 10:22
I drive a vehicle to conserve the occupants, the vehicle and the environment. Have fun and get to return another day. We get our buzz out of being in the environment, not from destroying it.

The extreme stuff will empty the bank account and get us all thrown out of wilderness areas.

I know what you're trying to say, but the days of bush-bashing are over. Some 4X4 journos have yet to learn that and are misleading another generation of drivers.

You are right though, almost any 4X4 driven competently will access most areas and you have to be prepared to get some scratches at least to do that..
AnswerID: 134894

Reply By: Leroy - Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 10:42

Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 10:42
There's a bit of difference between bush bashing a new vehicle and one that's worth $5k. I know I am a little more cautions now and also think about wheather it's essential that I go up that track etc. if there's a real chance of incurring unessary damage. Sometimes I feel I should of bought an older vehicle so I could apply the NGAS or the DGAS (don't give a $hit) principles! But I work too hard for my money to just bush bash it away!!

Leroy
AnswerID: 134896

Reply By: Utemad - Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 11:26

Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 11:26
Which is exactly why when I "upgrade" at the end of the year it will be to a comfortable yet cheap 1990's vehicle so when it gets dented I just DGAS.

Driving tracks with the potential to destroy a vehicle are not "in the past". Just come to Qld where we have heaps of 4x4 parks to choose from.
AnswerID: 134901

Reply By: Member - Steve (ACT) - Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 12:10

Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 12:10
Correct me if I'm wrong but the point he was trying to make was that he realised in a quiet bit of thought that we get so heated in which is the better vehicle, but in reality for the type of driving and touring that the bulk of us do, both vehicles are more than capable, so when it comes to the newer vehicles it doesn't really matter which one you own.

Sandy
AnswerID: 134905

Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 12:16

Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 12:16
Spot on! Theory vs Practice.
0
FollowupID: 388906

Reply By: Tuff60 - Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 13:09

Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 13:09
As all know, out of the box Nissan and Toyota need help. Neither is really capable on it's own. If they were, we'd see them if tuff truck and the like.
You ever thought, the ones you think are out there using your "NGAS" theory are practical not posers.
Take a GUIII or 100 series to ARB does it cost more than outfitting a GQ or 60, YES.
Is it more capable, DEBATEABLE AT BEST?
Honest Nissan boys know Toyota chassis and bodies and engines are best.
Honest Toyota boys know that Nissan running geart is tougher.
You will never see a true off roader on the show room floor, so build or make do.
Just mine and Bud Light's two cents worth.
And for the record, BUD LIGHT, half the calouries, all the alcohol.
AnswerID: 134910

Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 15:30

Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 15:30
I've seen a brand spanking new GU4 with the 4.2TD in it do some awesome work - stock highway tyres and all. Got some very surprised looks from well serious off-roaders. Cost a rear bumper and side step but the fact is, it did it. The big difference is the owner just gave it to it and didnt't give a sh*t. My 100 goes pretty well too I reckon.

I think that they both are pretty capable vehicles straight out of the box for 99% of tasks they will ever REALISTICALLY be asked to do.

Not quite sure what you're getting at Tuff 60 but my point was that I think many folks get too carried away with the POTENTIAL of their rig and spend the big bucks (like me) but in REALITY it will never be used to its full ability because the owner actually cares about the vehicle.

I have come to the point that from now on I will keep my shiny 4x4 as a super comfortable, reliable, prestigeous, capable on and off road tourer and look after it. I will continue to take it off road regularly, but I won't feel the need to prove anything. I also won't get stuck into anyone for driving a Nissan either because they are excellent rigs too. However, I will keep my dented, rusty 20 year old HJ75 out the front because I know in REALITY it will run rings around 4x4's with every big-buck accessory known to mankind that cost 15 times more.

Why? Because it has a full tank of NGAS in it:-)
0
FollowupID: 388928

Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 20:28

Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 20:28
Ahh have you really believed the bud light advertising? It doesnt stand up. Its got less carbs? - No, carbohydrates are introduced for the brewing as suger which are food for the yeast. the reason fermentation stops is because the sugar has been converted into alchol. at tafe we tested the homebrew for suger content after fermentation - ZIP.
the calories in alcholic beverages are provided by ---------------- ALCHOL!! (not withstandind premix stuff)
Protein has 17kj per gram
Carbohydrates (including suger) has 16kj per gram
and ALCHOHOL has 26kj per gram
Just more useless info you probably dont care about but oh well
0
FollowupID: 388946

Reply By: TroopyTracker - Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 16:37

Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 16:37
V8,
Good point and exactly why I've decided to keep my 75 Troopy and drop Chev Diesel in rather than spend say 50k on good 2nd hand 78 TD Troopy. I want to be able to really use it in the bush which I currently can, but I'm sure I'd being thinking twice more often if sitting in shiny new 4by.

Cheers
Matt
AnswerID: 134941

Reply By: Member - Duncs - Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 17:19

Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 17:19
The point is reinforced by the number of stolen 2wd drives I used to see out the back of Menai. I would look at it and think "How did they get that there?"

Answer....NGAS

COme to think of it I have had the company Commodore in some pretty interesting places.

Duncs
AnswerID: 134946

Follow Up By: joc45 - Tuesday, Oct 18, 2005 at 10:37

Tuesday, Oct 18, 2005 at 10:37
Duncs, you're quite right - it's amazing where company commodores and falcons will go when the going gets tough. Probably even futher than rental ones ;-)
Gerry
0
FollowupID: 388993

Reply By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 20:16

Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 20:16
Thats all very well if all you want out of your 4by is a weekend warrier like the kinds you see with one wheel up on a stump. But if it is something you want to take out to the far reaches would you really trust or be happy in a 5g basher with none of the extras that make remote travel comfortable and safe? you can have as much fun as you like in your 5g suzi with huge muddys and 2 lockers playing around on the edge of town or some park --------- but Ill see you when I get back --- dont wait! thats my real world
AnswerID: 134970

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 20:47

Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 20:47
Spot on Davoe......spot on!!!!

I get lots of bleep thrown at me (and I don't mind...I love being the centre of attention hehehe) for having a vehicle with a few accessories on it. I've even been through the exercise of saying to myself...."ok, let's take off all the cr@p that never gets used". Only to find that the GPS is about the only thing that (for me) is a waste of bloody money. It shows me how fast I'm really going but I have no idea how to drive all this moving map stuff etc. I've got by with paper maps in the past so why do I even carry the GPS, I keep asking myself.....I guess the compass is useful sometimes.

Anyway, I digress. hahaha

Your point is quite correct. I recall when I was last up at Cape York, the bloke at the repair shop said that the majority of 4x4s that have to be sent back to Cairns on the barge (cos of break-downs) are the super-modified older ones (like shorty 40s with 38" rubber, V6 communist motors etc etc or). These are gr8 vehicles for mud-plugging with NGAS (where a full rebuild is likely to be required between runs), but no good for a long distance tour in comfort with the handbrake and tin-lids.

Horses for courses
0
FollowupID: 388948

Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 21:30

Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 21:30
Horses for courses. That was kind of my point.

People tend to get a bit carried away comparing apples with oranges. You can't compete off-road with an 'NGAS' driven basher in a quality tourer unless you're rich or stupid or both. I now realise this (hence my post) and drive accordingly. My 100 series is already well scratched up but that is where I want the damage to stop. The fact is, I simply can't compete with anyone who is prepared to damage their vehicle when it comes to the serious off-road stuff.

I was putting up a topic for discussion saying that the internet seems to create an atmosphere where "you can't do anything in a Toyota / Nissan" or "you'll never get anywhere without a 2", 4", 6", 8" lift and lockers" or "Coopers/ BFG will blow up and leave you stuck to die a slow and agonising death" etc etc etc......I have got further in a bog standard Landcruiser ute with split rims than anything else. Why? It was not mine and I had permission to do what I liked to it - in other words......NGAS.

As I said in my previous posts, I know which vehicle I want to drive all day or all week in.
0
FollowupID: 388952

Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 21:37

Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 21:37
"I have got further in a bog standard Landcruiser ute with split rims than anything else"

Gotta love those government supplied cruisers eh ?!?!?
0
FollowupID: 388953

Reply By: Bullwinkle - Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 20:38

Monday, Oct 17, 2005 at 20:38
I agree with Davoe. Have mustered in $2000 dollar Suzukis stripped and barred out. Absolutely nowhere you can't go, not much you can't do. But that doesn't mean you'd do the Canning in one does it?
AnswerID: 134973

Reply By: ev700 - Tuesday, Oct 18, 2005 at 09:10

Tuesday, Oct 18, 2005 at 09:10
As long as I don't meet you NGAS or DGAS blokes coming the other way on a dirt track I'll be happy.

For example, one fellow on this forum claims to regularly exceed 100kph on dirt roads. The pity is that he could take others with him.

I don't mind if frivers want to go for it on land set aside for that purpose. However I do object to behaviouir elsewhere that will bring all fourby drivers into disrepute and result in more regulation.

That is why I say that magazines like 4X4 Monthly have a responsibility to encourage responsible (sustainable?) four wheel driving.

EV700
AnswerID: 135001

Follow Up By: Utemad - Tuesday, Oct 18, 2005 at 16:32

Tuesday, Oct 18, 2005 at 16:32
I don't believe he meant for people to apply the NGAS principle when driving around on dirt roads where a corolla can go with ease. He meant that to get up that steep rutted hill (the ones where everyone gets out to watch) you don't need lockers etc if you don't mind a bit of panel damage.
0
FollowupID: 389030

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (9)