PETROL FUEL INJECTORS
Submitted: Sunday, Oct 30, 2005 at 18:54
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Member - Ian W (NSW)
Some feedback would be greatly appreciated from qualified commentators please.
I have a seven year old petrol Bravo with 150,000Ks on the odometer. Finally got sick of paying for the $350 dollar oil change and since 60,000Ks have changed oils, filters and plugs myself. The vehicle has never been into a workshop since.
I would appreciate comments with regards putting it into a carby/fuel injection specialist and having the injectors removed cleaned etc: The specialist I spoke to indicated that they had the ability to tune/adjust the computerised engine management system.
They are not a Ford/Mazda Dealer and I'm wondering if I'm likely to see any real benefit for the close on $400 I was quoted for the injector clean/tune, or perhaps I should use the term recalibrate rather than tune.
Advice/comments appreciated.
Ian
Reply By: Member - Bill S (NSW) - Sunday, Oct 30, 2005 at 19:44
Sunday, Oct 30, 2005 at 19:44
HI Ian. Why do people who have a FITCH fitted to their vehicle never need injector cleaning???????? Answer==Because with the structural change of the fuel it burns more efficiently ie as it should and no residue is left to foul your injectors.
For the interest of my KNOCKERS the NRMA in conjunction with AAA are in the process of testing to report on their findings,and when this is tabled a backtrac on the remarks of the ignorant in the past will be expected,as I already know what they will find.But guys thanks for the unfounded remarks,they really help to understand the make up of people in our society or I should say people on this
forum.But I will stay observing happenings.
Regards BILLS
AnswerID:
137056
Follow Up By: F4Phantom - Sunday, Oct 30, 2005 at 20:06
Sunday, Oct 30, 2005 at 20:06
Bill, can I ask an honest question with no intent, anger or load behind it? Do you believe your sales will go up as a result of injections like that?
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Sunday, Oct 30, 2005 at 20:16
Sunday, Oct 30, 2005 at 20:16
Bill S,
The poster was asking about injectors that have seen a fair bit of use already. He did not in any way ask for another advertisement from you.
Pehaps after he has seen to the cleaning of his injectors and general mechanical servicing of his injection system, he may be interested, but how about you let him ask you? I am quite sure he would have come across one of your many unpaid-for advertisements, as
well as tha ones you have paid fo,r and would therefore be
well aware of your product.
Can a Fitch help my Waeco fridge keep my beer cold?
FollowupID:
390776
Follow Up By: Member - John C (QLD) - Monday, Oct 31, 2005 at 09:10
Monday, Oct 31, 2005 at 09:10
Bill,
Good to see you are getting the NRMA and the AAA testing the fitch.
I am a doubter myself, but am looking forward to seeing the results.
Please post them on the
forum as soon as you get them.
Without having any means of reliably testing the fitch myself, I will be looking forward to seeing the results.
FollowupID:
390817
Follow Up By: Nudenut - Monday, Oct 31, 2005 at 16:54
Monday, Oct 31, 2005 at 16:54
unless the tests are certified using certified calibrated measuring instruments any figures submitted for our perusal would be useless
FollowupID:
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Reply By: Member - Ian W (NSW) - Sunday, Oct 30, 2005 at 20:27
Sunday, Oct 30, 2005 at 20:27
Bill S,
I asked for
feedback from qualified commentators thank you, I forget to include impartial and without a financial interest.
Just in case I have not clarified my position clearly enough, I lump your Fitch in with Hi Clones and Energy Polarisers, Tarot Cards, Fortune Telling and Tea Leaf Reading.
I accept that you may find my comments offensive but beg you forgivness on the basis that I'm ignorant and need to get educated as you have already told me on a number of previous occasions.
Ian
AnswerID:
137065
Reply By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Sunday, Oct 30, 2005 at 20:36
Sunday, Oct 30, 2005 at 20:36
For $400 i would be expecting C/O injectors.
A few main things make sure they check/replace:
Get the fuel pressure regulator on the fuel rail tested.
Clean the MAF carefully and very gently with a bit of spray on brake cleaner.
Drain/flush the fuel tank.
Change all fuel filters (high pressure and low pressure).
Change rubber hoses.
They don't really "recalibrate" anything, it's all controlled admirably by the ECU these days (use to need to get the timing of mechancal injection correct, similar to timing the ignition).
It is worth a couple of hours waiting in/around the workshop to see that they actually do everything.
I HOPE THIS ANSWERS THE ORIGINALLY POSTED QUESTION......
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Ian W (NSW) - Monday, Oct 31, 2005 at 19:32
Monday, Oct 31, 2005 at 19:32
Thanks
Gary,
Just the sort of info I was looking for, unless one knows what questions to ask you can be hung out to dry. Should I feel that I might proceed I will ask questions re the above tips and evaluate the answeresI get.
Ian
FollowupID:
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Reply By: 120scruiser - Sunday, Oct 30, 2005 at 21:18
Sunday, Oct 30, 2005 at 21:18
If you need them done I use MRJ Mobile Injectors.
I have been using Michael for years and his price is right, his service is excellent and he has never let me down.
He replaces pintles, fuel baskets and o rings. He pressure tests the injectors and flow tests them. He then ultrasonic baths them. He then does another
test to see if they are better.
As an example - I removed my injectors a few years ago out of my EB 6 cylinder falcon. There was nothing wrong with them. Once he had serviced them I got an extra 50 km out of each tank. The car also idles alot better.
I find the V6 Commodores and 6 cylinder Falcons idle so much better once cleaned.
I agree with testing the fuel pressure regulator as these can have leak by which will leak fuel back to the tank resulting in low fuel pressure.
Put a new fuel filter on it as
well.
You could pull the injectors out yourself as it isn't hard and expect to pay about $33.00 dollars an injector. Thats what I retail them for.
MRJ will come to you in his van. Either Michael or his dad. I think he will pull themout if you want him to however I haven't used him for this as we do it.
If you do it make sure you put a thin smear of rubber grease around the lower and upper o rings before you install them so you don't pinch the o rings causing either fuel leaks or vacuum leaks.
Regards
120scruiser
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Ian W (NSW) - Monday, Oct 31, 2005 at 19:35
Monday, Oct 31, 2005 at 19:35
Hi 120cruiser,
Thanks for your recommendation, where abouts are MJR? I probably should have mentioned in my first post that I'm in
Sydney. (Hills District).
Ian.
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Reply By: Member - DOZER- Monday, Oct 31, 2005 at 10:14
Monday, Oct 31, 2005 at 10:14
Hi
Unless you are experiencing power loss, or hard starting, dwindling fuel economy, i would not bother to clean them.
Save the money for the next tank of petrol. Most newer cars with electronic brains tune themselves, you will only need plugs, and a timing
check....maybe new leads.
Andrew
AnswerID:
137125
Follow Up By: Member - Ian W (NSW) - Monday, Oct 31, 2005 at 19:44
Monday, Oct 31, 2005 at 19:44
Dozer,
Your approach is exactly the one I've taken todate, "if it don't seem broke, don't try and fix it"
Then I thought that these things creep up gradually, power, economy drop off in tiny increments over extended periods of time without being noticed. One thinks the vehicle is not driving as
well as it used to, or maybe it's just imagination.
Not having kept detailed fuel usage stats leaves me guessing. Your sort of like the guy who fits an inline **** to the fuel system then thinks his economy has improved by x percent. I think its called the placebo effect or perhaps in my case the unplacebo effect.
Regards
Ian
I guess
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - DOZER- Monday, Oct 31, 2005 at 20:56
Monday, Oct 31, 2005 at 20:56
The best way to find out if the injecters need doing is to put a probe up its bum...and look for unburnt fuel.
Usually, a bad injecter will make the motor start minus a cylinder, or blow black smoke and have bad economy and low power.
The other way to attack this is to change the filter and run some premium through the system. If your filter hasnt been changed for a while, its amazing what they catch.....usually rusty liquid comes out of them....
Never tried a ***** in the fuel line.....if it made such a difference, my Yota would have one std ))
I have taken my injecters out and had them cleaned b4...i was chasing a related problem, not only did it not fix the problem, but it didnt make any noticeable difference to power, or economy...probably because there was nothing wrong with them. $30 each is the going price if you take them in yourself.
Andrew
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Ian W (NSW) - Monday, Oct 31, 2005 at 22:32
Monday, Oct 31, 2005 at 22:32
Whoops!,
Andrew,
Re my follow up to your reply. Should have read, "I'm like the guy etc:" I was certainly not referring to yourself, I am also of the opinion that if **** were so bloody good then they would come fitted from the factory, just think what F1 racing cars could do with them where just fractions of a percent really count.
Following up on your suggestion re Premium Fuel, I do experience engine knock/pinging in third gear when heavily loaded (camper trailer etc:), filling up with Premium Unleaded eliminates the knocking. This one of the factors that led me to investigate injector servicing. Bloody marvelous what I remember after the event, I should have included this info in my original post instead of feeding it in in dribs and drabs.
Thanks to all who have taken the time to reply to my post, each of them has given me something with which to work.
Ian
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Reply By: Member - Hugh (WA) - Thursday, Nov 03, 2005 at 21:34
Thursday, Nov 03, 2005 at 21:34
Dear Ian,
I design fuel injectors for a living and my speciality is injector deposit control. Most of my work is on gasoline direct injection but I also have been involved with PFI (Siemens, Delphi).
The problem you describe will not be addressed by EMS tuning. Clogged injectors occurs due to blocking (occlusion) of the injector orifice with carbon based deposit. This is typically influenced by fuel quality (aromatic, olefins, T90, etc) and injector tip temperature (higher is worse). I would recommend a good after market injector cleaner at "clean-up" treat rate. You'll find that all Australian fuels contain additives for deposit clean-up at "keep-clean" rates. In the US this is actually legislated. I have done a lot of research with additive suppliers to know that this will work out the simplest method for you (in lieu of parting with your hard earned cash).
Happy motoring.
Regards,
Hugh
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