Is this the forgotten fluid?

Submitted: Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 09:34

ThreadID: 27716 Views:4424 Replies:11 FollowUps:10

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Shaker

We are all very conscious about engine oils, gearbox oils, coolants, diesel supplements, even windscreen washer additives, but what about brake & clutch fluids????
I have just had a nerve racking experience where we were on own in the high country, (Crooked River) & as we neared our chosen camping spot (secret) towing the camper trailer, the clutch pedal got closer & closer to the floor. It got to the stage where it was engaging about 1mm from the floor. As we were on our own, this was quite a worry & for the 4 days that we there we didn't use the vehicle at all.
Anyway to cut a long story short we did get out, driving in 4th low all the way to the bitumen, to save on gear changes. Strangely though, on the rest of the journey the clutch started to "self heal" & by the time we got home it wasn't feeling too bad at all. Don't you hate that!
The next day I took the vehicle to my repairer & his first comment was "how old is the fluid" my answer being "f i i k" He then produced a gadget & immersed its probe in to the clutch master cylinder & declared the fluid to be absolutely stuffed & with a huge water content. I left the vehicle for a complete clutch & brake fluid change, being quite certain that problem was much deeper seated than merely old fluid. When I picked the vehicle up, I was told that there was about 10mm of "sludge" in the clutch master cylinder & the recommendation was for it to be replaced post haste.
It just goes to show how such a simple thing may have caused a massively expensive bush recovery of vehicle & trailer for the sake of annual fluid changes.

So, the reason for the post? Have you changed your forgotten fluids lately???

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Reply By: Willem - Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 09:39

Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 09:39

Thanks Shaker

That reminds me that I have intended to do just that for a while. Better go see my mechanic :o)

AnswerID: 137262

Reply By: Gerhardp1 - Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 09:39

Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 09:39

Yes, I regularly remove all the old fluid from the master cylinder, top up with new, and then bleed all brakes. No clutch as it's an auto.

AnswerID: 137263

Reply By: western mudrat - Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 10:05

Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 10:05

ADvice from the incrediby smart and technically minded people at the Honda dealer in Darwin (for the other half's civic mind you but should apply equally for the real car) is that in tropical climates with their high humidity you should change your brake and ideally clutch fliuds EVERY SIX MONTHS! due to the highly hygroscopic nature of brake fluid.

Something to keep in mind.

AnswerID: 137267

Reply By: Member - Duncs - Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 10:35

Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 10:35

And your power steering fluid?????

When was that last changed? I know if the power goes you can still steer it but have you ever tried to steer your car with the engine turned off.

Put yourself in that same mountain campsite without the power steering. Having to rely on the shoulders could certainly take the gloss off an otherwise pleasant trip.

AnswerID: 137271

Reply By: ev700 - Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 10:39

Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 10:39

A word of caution: don't have these things done immediately prior to a trip and check for leaks and fluid levels.

I had the automatic transmission flushed on wife's Falcon and it later poured fluid all over the floor (lucky I saw it!). Of course the service centre blamed a seal that had never leaked before.

Many places must use unsupervised apprentices to turn spanners, but they charge for A Grade mechanics!

I hope they up their training when the Govt allows in all of those o'seas apprentices. I have images of young non-ESP (PC jargon for non English speaking, you can't say foreign!!) migrants sitting in front of an incomprehensible video in English as the only training they receive.

Not having a go at migrants, just doubtful that many businesses will offer asequate training when it is all about saving dollars and there is already a lot of sub-standard work around.

On the farm we used to change all fluids on a schedule and the equipment rarely broke down. Now I take the vehicles to service centres for the same preventive maintenance and things fail following service. Go figure.

AnswerID: 137273

Follow Up By: Tanka - Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 12:52

Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 12:52

Servicing does not guarantee against failure of parts. Perhaps if your mechanical success rate is so good on the farm, maybe you should get your MVRIC.
Tanka.

FollowupID: 390995

Follow Up By: Footloose - Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 13:37

Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 13:37

You forgot to mention the most important skill that every mech that hangs out his shingle is born with. X Ray vision into your wallet. :))))

FollowupID: 390996

Follow Up By: Member - DOZER- Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 20:01

Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 20:01

ROFL.....unless you own a Camry :-))

FollowupID: 391030

Follow Up By: Footloose - Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 20:18

Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 20:18

Wife's vehicle is a Camry, excellent for us.

FollowupID: 391032

Follow Up By: 120scruiser - Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 22:25

Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 22:25

Sounds like ev700 has been bitten by a mechanic somewhere sometime.
Just remember one thing ev700, without apprentices you won't have mechanics.
I have always had apprentices and always will. My last one was qualified this year and I haven't put another one on yet as this one was too good to let go. After christmas I'll have another one start.
The hardest thing these days is to get the young kids to give a damn about there work ethics. I've had 2 in the last month for work experience and they only turn up when they feel like it.
When I find good ones I generally keep them.

FollowupID: 391047

Follow Up By: ev700 - Wednesday, Nov 02, 2005 at 12:53

Wednesday, Nov 02, 2005 at 12:53

Tanka

Must have been my wording. If so I apologise for it.

Here again:

I support apprentices.

The QA by some service centres is poor or non-existant.

The transmission leak we experienced occurred immediately after servicing. It came home and leaked a 30 cm pool over the floor. Obviously the work done was suspect. It is nonsense to suggest the part suddenly failed.

EV700

FollowupID: 391104

Reply By: ACDC - Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 14:26

Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 14:26

Try getting your car serviced correctly maintenance is cheap repairs are expensive!

AnswerID: 137300

Reply By: Rigor - Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 16:10

Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 16:10

Back onto the brake fluid argument , I have always used silicone fluid, well, for the last 30 years at least and it is the best thing since sliced bread . Convert to silicone and forget the hydraulics forever. I was put onto silicone by a friend in the brake industry and have been eternally grateful , 2 old volkswagens 28 and 29 years old and still same hydraulic components . I had one failure where the brake line to the rear rusted from the outside in (wet carpet) Only 1 reservation and that is not to use silicone in ABB systems. Lots of negative argument out there because of the lack of repeat servicing . and the old one of swelling the rubbers is complete crap , 30 years have proven that to me.

Just my 2 cents worth based on my experience with silicone.

Dave L.

AnswerID: 137310

Reply By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 18:05

Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 18:05

How does having water in your clutch fluid give you a low clutch pedal? I know it is far from desirable and should be changed but water actually makes an excellent hydrolic fluid as it is totally incompressable (i have been told it is in fact better than hydrolic fluid but some of its properties make it unsuitable) water apparantly can be used instead of brake fluid in an emergency according to bush mechanic books

AnswerID: 137317

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 19:13

Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 19:13

Hi ya Davoe,

I'd guess that water boils at 100 degrees C and then the pedal becomes spongy from steam. Then things get better when its all cool again.

I thought cooling oil was a better substitute - doesn't corrode everything like water. I remember an episode of bush mechanics on the ABC where OMO was used - I'd expect that to spell a certain end to the hydraulics. I just carry a spare container of brake fluid.

Cheers
Phil

FollowupID: 391026

Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Nov 02, 2005 at 09:24

Wednesday, Nov 02, 2005 at 09:24

Phil has hit the nail on the head, but also in my case there was a layer of sludge in the bottom of the clutch masyer cylinder that must have stopped it closing all the way, giving the huge of freeplay that I experienced.

FollowupID: 391084

Reply By: Peter 2 - Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 18:06

Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 18:06

The humvee uses silicone fluid too but it still requires regular fluid changes as while the silicone fluid doesn't absorb moisture any moisture that does get in the system ends up at the lowest point which is usually the calipers/wheel cylinders and they will corrode out and ruin seals etc.
Silicone fluid cannot be used in ABS systems as when it is pumped it aerates and foams and the resulting air bubbles can take days to seperate out.
When bleeding systems with silicone fluid in them you have to wait for any bubbles to work their way out and gravity bleeding is the go as pumping the pedal can also aerate the fluid.

AnswerID: 137318

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 19:15

Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 19:15

I just change the brake and clutch fluid every two years like it says in the service book. Easy job, and the fluid is cheap. Toyota still tell us to use DOT 3 brake fluid and not DOT 4, so I buy their stuff.

Cheers
Phil

AnswerID: 137326

Follow Up By: 120scruiser - Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 22:20

Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 22:20

Good call Phil G
Have you ever tried buying Dot 3 fluid any where but Toyota. I haven't found one yet.
They say Dot 4 can stuff the ABS units in Toyotas.
We just buy Toyota stuff now as well.

FollowupID: 391045

Reply By: Willb - Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 22:45

Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 22:45

If I remember correctly brake fluid is hydroscopic (spelling?) and absorbs moisture.
If the fluid is compromised by too much moisture the water content after heavy braking, because of a lower boiling point, actually boils. The gas produced, (steam) can be compressed.
Therefor the pedal travel wil increase as you are compressing the gas.
Hope this makes sense as I think I stopped making sense after I lost ( again ) on the Cup.
Will