Landrover First Again - Toyota Last Again

Thats cause they dont sell patrols in USA. Pretty simple eh.

Hi Turbo Diesel, I think you have been listening to all the bull out there about ALL the different makes of 4x4s.

For a start, 48% of all Land Rovers ever made, are still running while the next closest make can only boast 22%. That’s that myth gone.

As far as sales go, Australia is probably the only developed country, around the world, where Japanese 4x4s are more popular than European or North American 4x4s. So I wouldn’t rave too much.

As for waiting for the Japs to bring out their next generation 4x4s, don’t you mean you are waiting for the japs, who are waiting for Land Rover to get the bugs out of the current advanced developments, so the japs can then copy them for their next generation and this is usually about 10 years after LR first introduces them.

Cheers and have a nice ( long ) wait.

Before Toyota strike back with anything maybe they should concentrate on building a Flag-ship that doesn’t Break front diffs and have random front end suspension failures, And if thay get time maybe make a LSD that work’s.

At lest Nissan have had a shot with the 3-Litre diesel and now that is almost Bug free

Toyota should just save time and buy the CRD Engine from Jeep or the 7.3Ltr Power stroke diesel off Ford.

Exploder what can i say you 100% correct Toyota should make bigger diffs and better suspension. That would make them 100% perfect instead of 98%, lol. By the way i think Jeeps motor is actually a Merc diesel, chrysler and merc are swapping tech at the moment. The next gen cruiser is set to have a twin turbo v8 diesel with 580nm of torque at 2000rpm and 180kw. Furthermore if you ever have the oppurtunity to visit Japan and visit the Toyota museum you will notice that Toyota have a deep respect for Henry Ford, they also have rebuilt a model t-ford to their standards (toyotas) i think you would be impressed.

Range Rover was already offering an all alloy V8 with twin carbs, full time 4x4, coils over live axles, 4 wheel disc brakes and auto trans back in the 70's. The latest Toyota's have almost caught up with where the rangies were ten years ago. As good as they are, the japs are copiers rather than innovators. But they do understand marketing better than most.

Yes thats correct. A salesman and I took a Disco 3 out for a spin. 170 kph in 3rd (auto), couldn't hear the diesel engine. I'd say that is at home.

I read the article as well, I think the words where similiar to "THe cruiser didn't give us ANY problems" Unlike the British piece of .....! All said and done landrover have picked there act up so they deserve some credit but not too much.

In 15 years when you are looking at them they will most likely all be F***ed, The day’s off thing’s being built to last are numbered.

What happened, Wasn’t there a Post where 99% of people all agreed that you can’t trust a 4wd mag .

This site is about the only place you can get good first hand info on how good a 4WD is in the real world, as every one hear has there 4WD for a good period of time and gets to see how they hold up over 50, 100 or 400,000k’s.

Not we did a 2000k round trip now hear is what I think, oh and did I mention I am being payed for my comment’s.

So does my Nissan, so does this mean they shouldn't be sold here either?.
The biggest problem in my opinion is the manufacturers should be made test these vehicles under the most extreme situations feaseable in each market before they are allowed to be sold in that market. Instead the testing for my vehicle, I presume, may have been done in a much cooler enviroment (Japan) which will not give true indication of how it will perform under extreme conditions here in Aus.
Just my thoughts.

Trevor

With the amount of vehicles that they sell here, compared to the rest of the world. I don't think anyone in Japan, UK or the USA really cares how they perform.

R.

R,

That is so true. Our govt. should be the one enforceing these companies to sell products good enough for Aus customers.
Although Dubbo Nissan told me, they are one of the highest sales outlets for Nissan Patrols in the World, I don't know how true this is but that is what they told me. Dubbo had so many overheating patrols (9 at same time I was there) that some engineers of the vehicles from Japan flew out to Dubbo to see what was going on.
End result:- most vehicles running within specs but one guy was in talks with them as he could only drive with bonnet off in his paddocks with spray equipment in tow. Mind you their (Nissan) opinions on safe engine temps varies greatly to what radiator specialists think out here.

Cheers Trevor.

Of course!!

If I remember right - the first vehicles to cross the sahara unaided - were Land Rovers.

And I'm sure Len Beadell and the Gunbarrel construction crew would agree....

Landrovers are obviously not capable of handling hot arid conditions!!

When will people stop mud slinging and grow up.... Nissan, Toyota, Land Rover - all make some bloody good vehicles - the this make or that is crap attitude is a joke....

Land Rovers have been used by the Aust Army and all other Commonwealth forces in all sorts of horrible places, for 50 odd years.
There are no plans to switch over to Nissans or Toyota's any time soon.
The Australian outback was opened up with the old Landies, that's all one could get back then.

Japan cool?

I lived there for a year or so. In summer it's JUST as hot as it is here in upper Oz, but TWICE as humid. It just about rains in your house.

Ozimagemobile posted this followup
Land Rovers have been used by the Aust Army and all other Commonwealth forces in all sorts of horrible places, for 50 odd years.
There are no plans to switch over to Nissans or Toyota's any time soon.
The Australian outback was opened up with the old Landies, that's all one could get back then. /quote

I think that changed a couple of years ago
Toyota Wins Battle For Defence Contract

Can you elaborate on the new Range Rover problems?

. . . and you keep buying them?

Rangie problems, various random warning lights coming on for no reason. Headlights that automaticaly cycle from right down low to high when driving - every 5 secs, they move to the lowest position and back again. The dealer has spent over 12 months trying to fix these problems but with no luck.

Our Freelander is the last Landrover for us (although there is a 2000 Rangie that may be going at the right price next year ie we may end up with it becuase it WILL be the right price). The Freelander is the worst Landie that we have had. But friends have also had a real hard time with their Landies (Discos and Rangies) and are all moving away from Landies. Most vehicles with problems are under 5 years old, the older ones seem to be better (less electronics) and the newer ones may be better with the Ford input - time wll tell.

Forgot to mention our friends with the blown engine TD5 also had a new gearbox earlier in the year (2001 model).

Stevesub

They are an aquired taste. The new offerings are seriously complicated machinery, but the early ones without all the electronic wizardry are very simple and mostly reliable if commonsence maintenance is upheld.
We run an early 4door Rangie, no fast glass, no hole in the roof, no computers or coffee makers. Over 400,000 klms and still averages 150psi in all cylinders. for 22yrs, "Old Fugly" has been everywhere, and allways gets home again. It's had more hits than Elvis, been set on fire in the Vic Alps, half drowned on Frazier Island, and once ran on a coctail of Kero, Metho, and petrol for the last few miles of a sand dune adventure. Whatever you drive, if you look after it and understand how everything works, and have a little respect for the machinery.....you should get a decent run out of anything. The Russians have been happy with the Lada and the Trabant.

>>> They are an aquired taste.

LMAO!!!!

That you worked at a Land Rover workshop and not a Toyota one.

And maybe that you weren't repairing/replacing diffs?

It doesn't say anything, you have to read it.

It actually says "WELL WELL I am driving a 9 2005 turbo diesel cruiser and I would not swap it for the world keep the others and I will stay with the BEST. Been driving cruisers for the past thirty years and know them well. In 25 years in mech field did dozens of Landrover gearboxes and two cruiser boxes . . ."

I like how everyone always likes to have a go at the guy in the cruiser, why is that???? Toyota never said they had the BEST 4wd, but rather the BEST SELLING 4wd there is a difference!

The test was on How American they are, the key to winning hear is engine size and fuel consumption

Doge Ram What’s that 6Litre V8 minimum engine size and it's is massive, Ram also used in name (Full point awarded)

Toureg, well only 4.9 But it is a V10 (Big points there) and it also has lots of bright lights and dials on the dash (Don’t know what they do but look F***ing grate)

Jeep, well how can you go past 5.7 litres of hemi power and well they are built in Detroit the home of good old American motoring.

Toyota, Dam Overseas cars and it only got a 4.7 V8 that’s built in Japan Come on!!

Then how do you explain that the Discovery3 beatht them all - smallest engine and built overseas.

And Billowaggi, I can remember the first of the toyota taragos that had to have the motor removed to be able to change the spark plugs.

We all can pick faults with any make if that is what we want to do, the point is at the end of the race what vehicle came first?

People will drive the vehicle that they consider as being the right vehicle for them so why is it that toyota and nissan owners go looking for problems with LRs when, if they are honest, they would sort out their own vehicle makes problems first.

I bought a MkIII Range Rover because I do a hell of a lot of driving and this is the safest mass produced 4x4 made.

If I was planning to tow a large caravan or horse float I would probably have bought a toy or some other 4x4.

I knew when I bought the RR I would probably have problems but I was prepared to risk that for the safety, while on the other hand you may be prepared to sacrifice safety for supposed reliability, each unto his own.

Cheers

Oh when in Birdsville the mechanic there is a Landie driver, has a Disco ;-))), and is Willems cousin, nice bloke too.

Eric,

I actually drive a disco 1 and a freelander - have had a subaru and a suzuki in the past as well as heaps of 2wd cars. In my close familiy there is a V8 Toyota 100, a Triton Diesel Dual Cab - in the recent years there has also been a Patrol 4.2 TD, an 80 series TD and a Nissan 720 ute. Interestingly the Toyo driver went from the 80 to the Patrol the 100 series. Didn't like the Patrol one bit - it rode a but ruff but was pretty tuff.

I have to say that while Landrovers suit my needs, all the vehicles I have mentioned are great in their own way and I think I would buy any of the newer Toyotas or Patrols if my needs were different.

What annoys me is the people who follow their own particular brand and are happy to poo poo other people's cars without any real understanding of them. I am sad to say that most of these people seem to be Toyo fans - I really don't think that they should feel threatened by Landrovers or Jeeps but they seem to be. They seem bent on justifying their brands over any common sense consideration of the pros and cons of each vehicle. They ignore the number of 4wd awards that the Disco 1 achieved all those years ago when the 80 series was new and now that the D3 is doing the same they cough up all sorts of reasons why their product is not doing as well. I am sure a new Landcruiser 100 in about 2-3 years will be better than the D3 after they copy all the innovations - but then the D4 will be better than the cruiser.

Hence when the awards and stats show that a Landrover is better than those drivers with 'blinkers' on would care to admit, I don't mind putting a bit of fuel on the fire and doing a bit of stoking. It livens up the debate and the forum!!

And you know what - there are more and more Landrover supporters comming out of the closet as a result and the discussion is starting to become more balanced when we talk about our cars - irrespective what make it it is.

Garry

Hence

Eric how many landrovers do people own and maintain up the cape?

I will drive anything as long as it works and is comfortable doesnt break down and dose what it is meant to do

Turbo not many mainly Toyota's and Nissan

My son and his mate talk for hours about how good Holden are and how bad fords are.
They are only 11 years old just proves some never grow up.

All the best
Eric

Classic I guess you are right, I will be up the cape in two weeks, flying not driving so i will have a look around. Fishing takes the mind of 4wd cant wait.

the smartest words written yet.

See my followup above in response to Eric From Cape York.

Have you actually driven a Toureg!! - They are better than you think!!

Sorry can't say i have driven a tow-rag but i'm positive they are worth the money, the ground clearence is off the planet, parts are available at kmart, easy to fix, every second guy up the cape has one. Reliable through water crossings, arb and tjm have endless amounts of aftermarket accecories for them. All in all they are unstoppable, LOL, sorry for the sarcasim. In all seriosness to explore oz you need something that has a toyota badge or a nissan badge or a i hate to say it a landrover badge. Why, because they are common and although they ALL have their weaknesses they can be fixed by the local mechanic. People who are in market to buy a 4wd to exploe the NT and the Cape in my opinion would be mad to buy a tow rag over a cruiser. But i may be incredibly wrong only time will tell????

Don't be sorry to say Land Rover.....usually the people who have the most problem with them are those who have never owned one. Figure that out!

Owned a Series Three myself and my old man had a series 2a shorty and a series 3. Father in law owned two discos (constant problems). We currently have a fully equped 100 series td and a new SR5 Hilux TD, my father in law bought the cruiser and loves it, however even with the problems with brakes and electronics in the disco he still talks favourably of them, im sure its a curse.

Turbo Diesel, you call it a curse, or is it a desire to own the most advanced 4x4, and that’s a Land Rover, something toyota could never be accused of.

The price for having the most advanced, in many cases is the problems that come with it. And if you think it’s just an LR trait, think again.

One of the very VERY few times in which toyota have developed something of their own, their dual power car and surprise surprise, there is a world wide recall.

Toyotas may or may no be all that reliable but they are at best, at least ten years behind in technology and whether you reckon LRs are reliable or not, they can’t be too unreliable otherwise they would not have come first.

If you wish the buy supposedly reliable OLD technology then fine, be happy with your toyota, but don’t knock LR for being brave enough to develop new technologies and don’t try and run down people who won’t to drive advanced vehicles because without LR and it’s customers, your toyota would still be in the stone ages because the ONLY time toyota improve their vehicles is when they attempt to catch up to LR and that is always by coping LR advances. Lets face it, even the name landcruiser is a copy of Land Rover.

And again, no matter what you say, which vehicle came first?

Unfortunatly thyat is a poor argument for landies. No other manafacturer even comes close to toyota for building mega abused vehicles many never seeing bitumen. 99.9% of mining vehicles are tojo and that is just scratching the surface of companys that mega abused vehicles and buy tojo. There is no comparison to a privae vehicle whose owner thinks he gives it a tough time and one driven by a worker who just doesnt care

I don't really think the fact that a car is the top selling car relates in any way to being the best car.

My evidence for this is that according to the VFacts figures for December, the best selling car in Australia was the Toyota Corolla ;-)

I didnt say anything about them being top selling just that they by far and away they get bought to be used and abused off road more than any other vehicle by an absalute street. every now and again some progressive Mine manager will try and save money by getting something else but it has always ended in failure and rarly happens anymore

Landie

Not all Landcrusiers are soft roaders

And some of as live in the biggest state in OZ and have a large amount of dirt and outback

Don't think all Landcrusiers wifes vehicles

Richard

I hear what you are saying and its great to see that your vehicle is used the way it is intended. Equally the same can be said about the mining vehicles.

My point was, and perhaps it was lost somewhere in the translation was in response to those who claim they must be the best simply because they are the largest selling four wheel drive vehicle in Australia. I'd bet that 90% of Defender (if not more) spend time offroad. What is the percentage for Toyota Landcruisers?

You don't buy a Defender to cruise the bitumen highways, plenty buy Landcrusiers to go to the shopping centre in and never go offroad.

I'm not going to debate anyone about whether one is better than the other. My Defender serves me well and does the job it was intended for with a minimum of fuss. If the Toyos do the same for you - that's all that should matter as well.

As I said liars figures, figures lie - stats don't always mean that much.

The problem with stats unfortunately is that people can turn them around to support almost any argument they wish. The collection of information for statistical analysis is a science and unless it is done correctly, they don't really prove a thing, or they can prove anything!

your right and wrong landie. A defender is to land rover what a cruiser 78/79 is to toyota for which very few are bought as highwaycruisers - mostly for work and offroading

a disco is to landrover to a 100 series to toyota both of which are used extensivly for on road work

And it was a bloody good car for its day - just too far ahead of its time and rushed out too quickly resulting in poor quality control. Have you ever driven one?

. . . and that 4.4 litre V8 was sweeeeeeeet!

Very, especially with the 4 speed manual. It would rev easily above 6000 rpm. It was a relatively light car by today's standards and went like a scalded cat. I had one for about 4 years and apart from needing a new clutch under warranty, some leaks around the windscreen - fixed under warranty and a new starter motor out of warranty, it was trouble free.

Hi guys
Heard some saying Landrovers over heat bull bleep
Which vechicle can idle all day through the vast terrain of Africa no worries A: any
Which vechicle can reverse a 1500kg caravan up a 45 degree slope as many times
as you like no transmission windup Toyo Nissan whatever ??? A: crap 1:1?????
Which vechicle was designed with PTO . A: Toyota
Now thats a work horse./ Over heating was taken care of 50yrs ago. A: now they can do over 30
Landies break down but properly maintained seldom fail when counted on
Army has proved that. A: they hold your Handy's on
Which vechicle pops up on TV when there is a national disaster ? Nissan's
Cost of parts, anyone like to compare?? A: yes
Go down the freeway everyone passes you. A: as listed above
Go bush you pass everyone. A: I think not
Sorry guys just another Landie owner A: Sorry guys just another Toyota owner
Regards Axle

And back to the original post and actions speak louder than words.

Which 4x4 came first.

I don’t know if it was the first, but Mitsubishi had a 4 wheel drive car in 1927. This is a different animal to what came later from VW just before W.W.II and Baantan the original inventors of the jeep.

That would not surprise me, the ute was also invented in Australia.