Followup on our 2000 patrol stopping
Submitted: Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 09:58
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gcoops
After 3 weeks with the local Nissan dealer we have our Patrol back on the road. The reason it stopped was the injector pump had failed. Nissan are blaming this on contaminated fuel (
water) and as a result are not in the slightest bit interested in helping us out. So along with the car came a bill for $4900 to replace the pump.
What I would like to know is how does the
water get this far through the engine? I thought that was what the fuel filter and
water in fuel sensor and associated dash light is for.
From my experience all diesel has a certain amount of
water in it. Therefore for
water to get past the filter the amount of
water in the fuel would have to be substantial and if this was the case then the sensor should have picked it up and alerted us to the problem. Does this sound correct?
I have read in this
forum of problems with this injector pump. If anyone else has had this problem can they please advise of the outcome and if you had any success with Nissan helping to cover costs.
I am pretty ticked off to say the least. The vehicle has had every 10k service by Nissan by the book. I have very little control over the fuel that I put in the
tank. I only get fuel direct from the bowser (no gerry cans). It would seem to me that it is the job of filters and sensors to stop contaminants from getting to the injector pump.
gcoops
Reply By: Member - Banjo The First (SA) - Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 11:02
Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 11:02
Presume you still have your original pump - independent evaluation of said pump may be in order - some thorough going expert not associated with that dealer network. A lot that could be said, but I have no faith in such dealers to give me or anyone else a fair shake. "Artful fleecing" of clients is the stock in trade of too many of them. As to what you have been subjected too can only be sorted via an investigation, where possible.....
AnswerID:
140780
Reply By: Member - Chrispy (NSW) - Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 11:07
Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 11:07
Do you nearly always fill up at the same garage? Taking this problem up with them may also be a course of action for you.
Is it "Nissan" as such that came up with the prognosis, or the dealer? If the dealer removed the pump and sent it off to HQ for their tech guys to look at, then ask for the report.
AnswerID:
140784
Reply By: gcoops - Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 11:19
Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 11:19
The pump was sent to
Cooma Diesel, one of the two "Nissan Approved" repairers for these pumps in NSW apparently they are pretty complex items.
The report from
Cooma Diesel indicated that the pump was stuffed as a result of
water contaminated fuel. They returned the internals of my faulty pump which showed some wear and slight rusting. I did not get the whole thing back as they supplied a rebuilt pump and then apparently rebuild
mine for the next poor bugger. At $2800 for the rebuilt item and apparently over $5k for a new I had no choice as to which way to go. The rest of the Patrol must be fairly cheep to build if the pump cost 10% of new car price:)
We have a two regular fuel suppliers of which all fuel for the past 3 months has come from so we are looking into that option.
AnswerID:
140785
Follow Up By: Member - Chrispy (NSW) - Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 11:33
Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 11:33
Hmm..
Cooma Diesel are a pretty
well respected
shop. They do know what they're doing in my experiences with them. Did they say the problem probably occurred over time - or was it one bad batch that just killed the pump?
The garage has a duty of care to provide you with clean fuel. If fuel has
water in it, it is their responsibility to maintain the quality. You don't go signing a contract when you pull up to a servo to shield them from any responsibility - so it is inferred that they are responsible for the quality of what they sell to the motoring public. If you can prove that you always buy your fuel there by keeping reciepts, then I think that you have a case.
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Follow Up By: Member - ROTORD - Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 11:35
Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 11:35
Did you drain a sample from your fuel
tank to check for
water ? Can you check the fuel filter for
water ?
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Follow Up By: gcoops - Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 11:38
Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 11:38
According to Nissan, the main
tank was clean but there was contamination in the reserve
tank. We always put fuel in both tanks and always dump the sub prior to refuelling.
NRMA checked fuel filter and there was apparently no
water in it.
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 11:48
Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 11:48
Good point gcoops - add similar to the rubber trims $500 per door that Phil was quoted for a GQ, gas struts for bonnet $300 each, and various other extreme prices people have told us about on the
forum for various Patrol models. We paid over $100 for spare ignition keys ($130 i think) and something horrendous for a wheel nut. No wonder the engine is a problem!
Aside from the extreme prices, we went shopping for spare radiator hoses in SA (hard to find - dealers said no demand for them as they do seem to last the distance) and got one of them cheaper from the Nissan dealer than non genuine from the auto parts shops. So it still pays to
shop around.
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Follow Up By: Patrol22 - Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 12:37
Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 12:37
Motherhen - where did you get the key....buggers here charged me $276 for a new key and that was more than 2 years ago!
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Follow Up By: Member - George (WA) - Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 13:30
Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 13:30
It sounds like a very expensive/ripped off repair job. I had the fuel pump overhauled on my 80 series diesel Toyota only recently. They removed the pump, pulled it apart, replaced a few worne parts, put it back together, retuned the pump and reinstalled it. Total cost, including parts $750
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 23:56
Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 23:56
Hi Patrol 22 - it was a couple of years ago also - they were so embarrassed at the price that they said they were selling them to us at what they'd paid. i still complained bitterly but they would not discount any further. They were ordered through the Nissan dealership in Manjimup WA. Motherhen
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Friday, Nov 25, 2005 at 08:20
Friday, Nov 25, 2005 at 08:20
George the pumps are different, the Nissan one is a high pressure unit, going for around $5k each, the 80 ones are regular diesel units dime a dozen, compared to the Nissies
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Reply By: Scoey - Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 13:29
Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 13:29
I would certainly be getting an independent opinion or at the very least a 2nd opinion. My old man took his 2yo Jackaroo to the Holden Dealer (reasonably
well respected or so we thought) when it stopped without warning. After 2 days of "thorough inspection" the Holden bloke said exactly the same thing - injector pump had failed due to contaminated diesel (
water) and therefore wasn't a waranty job. He then offered to lighten Dad's hip pocket by $4500 odd to rectify the problem.
Dad was told (by a mate) to take it to another Holden place for a second opinion and after about an hour they found that the problem was (not sure if I remebered right) a broken return spring on a throttle body??? which they replaced for no cost. They also tested the fuel and said that it wasn't contaminated either. Hasn't missed a beat since.
The first Holden place still wanted Dad to pay the Labour costs they had incurred and only when we went to Holden Customer Service did they give in.
We've since found out that "contaminated fuel" are magic words bandied about a fair bit by dealers to get out of doing warranty jobs. Mayeb not in your case but I wouldn't be dying wondering.
Just my 2c! Good luck!
Scoey
AnswerID:
140798
Reply By: GUPatrol - Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 13:43
Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 13:43
gcoops,
Cooma Diesel are
well respected and they are the major dealers for Nippondenso, all Toyota dealers send stuff to them too.
When I was at an information session which
cooma diesel run for clubs, they explained how this happens and they explained that the new electronic pumps were more vulnerable to contamination than the conventional pumps (as used in the 4.2 engine).
When I was there they were in the process of obtaining all the machinery to be able to rebuild the pumps for the 3.0L Patrol.
If you have the report from them, then you have no chance from Nissan. However, if you kept receipts when you filled up or if you always use the same servo, then you can approach them. I heard cases from people with similar issues who got compensated by the Service station company ie: BP, Shell etc.
I heard many bad outcomes from people who filled up at
places such as woollies fuel etc.
The reasons why it gets to the pump without alerting you via the light is apparenly due to a combination of the
water emulsifying with the fuel (after running for sometime) and also sometimes the floating mechanism doesn't float due to gunk (brought on by
water).
That is what was explained to us at that information session.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 14:04
Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 14:04
The majority of fuel in each state comes from the same refinery so it's more down to the actualy service station itself and the quality/age of their tanks and the checks the staff do for
water contamination,not weather it's wollies or BP.
$4500 to rebuild a pump? get fuc%kd how can they justify that, what a load of bullbleep. Nissan dealers always were rip off merchants, and they probally allways will be.
FollowupID:
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Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 14:33
Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 14:33
Gcoops,
Sorry to read of your dramas....it would really pysh me off if that happened to my truck.
Strongly suggest you take precautions as follows for future ....
Fit a CAV filter (like Denco make) to take the place of the existing filter.
Fit a Morisons DeBug unit in-line before the main (CAV) filter unit...see
www.morison.com.au
Use a diesel treatment chemical in each
tank of fuel.
Cheers
Roachie
AnswerID:
140810
Reply By: John L G - Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 14:36
Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 14:36
Gcoops
This happened to me a few years ago and at the time was a BP user only.
Rang BP, was put throught to the area rep and explained the problem and the fill stations I used.
They rang back within the hour and the truck was towed to an injector pump specialist in
Fremantle. Had a new pump and injectors fitted at no cost with an apology from the rep and the servo.
It points to the fact that they do know where their fuel is going and if there are problems with it. This incident was obviously helped by the fact that they were my only supplier as it could be easily proved from my fuel card entries.
I was impressed with their attitude and apart from the inconvenience, no real harm done.
John G
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 23:10
Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 23:10
That would have been when BP introduced their dodgey Low Sulphur Diesel? That cost them 10's thousands of $...
This was common at the time, but bit different now if you tried.
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Follow Up By: TOB - Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 23:50
Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 23:50
well truckster when you haven't got the doh to appreciate technology just keep sniping and let others enjoy a good drive. I have seen what you drive and you can keep it.
tob
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, Nov 25, 2005 at 01:53
Friday, Nov 25, 2005 at 01:53
what on earth are you talking about?
I'll keep what I drive, and happily keep away from you and your crack pipe.
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Friday, Nov 25, 2005 at 08:47
Friday, Nov 25, 2005 at 08:47
Good move TOB, you took an informed comment from Truckster and turned it into an uninformed snipe yourself, just the sort of crap you appear so incensed at.
In the human race there are no winners and losers
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Reply By: kev.h - Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 18:04
Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 at 18:04
Hi Gcoops
Have you rung
Cooma Diesel to ask what they charge to do an overhaul on that pump -my sources tell me about $1800.00 give or take a bit then ask nissan to explain the difference (about $ 1000.00 to send it away) and the rest for a few hours of their apprentices time-Ripped Off-
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Member - Oskar (Bris) - Friday, Nov 25, 2005 at 07:38
Friday, Nov 25, 2005 at 07:38
A drott operator once advised me to fill up my diesel tank at the end of the day rather than the next morning due to the fact that, as the air inside the tank cools overnight, any moisture (in the air inside the tank) will condense and drip into the fuel. Just a little bit each time can add up ... he reckoned.
He may be right .... but it seems that you have to fill your tank up every afternoon to prevent this situation. I can't see me doing that.
Regular fuel additive treatment seems to be more viable.
Cheers
Oskar
AnswerID:
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