Where to pack LPG bottles?

Submitted: Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 11:42
ThreadID: 2870 Views:7582 Replies:14 FollowUps:14
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Where do you pack your LPG bottles? Don't bother replying if you have a camper trailer and store them in/on the trailer.

I don't have a camper trailer, but I do have a roof rack and I'm planning to build a storage system in the back of the GQ. Thanks to Truckster and the David Hay site (http://www.geocities.com/hay_dj/Patrol/Patrol.html) for ideas.

I'm in two minds about whether to build in room in the storage system for gas bottles (probably will travel with 2 x 4Kg bottles) OR put them on the roof rack. Would appreciate any thoughts on safety and practicality.

I've seen LPG bottle guages at Kangaroo Tent City (Sydney) for about $35, has anyone seen them cheaper? Any experience with them? I guess they would be a good idea if packing bottles in vehicle as they have a safety valve in case of leaks.
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Reply By: David - Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 12:20

Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 12:20
JNK

I have worked with an LPG gas company and seen what damage a leaking LPG gas cylinder stored / carried in vehicle will do.

Unless you have a properley installed internal LPG storage system which is vented to the outside and sealed to stop gas entering the vehicle, DO NOT under any circumstances store or carry LPG inside a vehicle.

Don't kid yourself thinking that a small cylinder is safe as even the smallest gas leak has the potential to destroy both your Patrol and its occupants.

In a 4WD, the situation is even worse as corrugations will literally shake open valves or cause fittings to come loose. You only need one small spark (in particular from vehicle electrics - like touching the brakes) to blow yourself apart long before you have any chance of smelling the gas.

Hope that this is of help - Safe motoring!!!


AnswerID: 10902

Follow Up By: Member - Melissa - Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 13:36

Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 13:36
David's comments about corregations shaking open valves is not exaggerated. I know of 2 incidents where this has happened. On cylinder carried inside a campertrailer...valve came open, gas leaked and eventually when they hit the brakes BOOM. Didn't do the trailer the much good. Another guy ended up in hospital with facial burns...he was smoking whilst unloading his car after a trip away. He was unaware the gas bottle had been leaking.

If it was me, I'd be carrying the gas bottle on the roof rack. Alternatively, I have seen gas bottle holders that extend out from spare wheel carriers at the back of the vehicle.

:o) Melissa
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Reply By: Allyn - Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 12:33

Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 12:33
In WA I think it is illegal to carry more than 1.5kg inside your vehicle . There are external restrictions too
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Follow Up By: Jnk - Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 12:43

Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 12:43
Any idea where I could find Australian or state government laws on carrying LPG bottles? There's obviously no requirement for LPG bottle sellers to advise buyers of any restrictions!

Thanks for the comments so far guys.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen- Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 13:09

Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 13:09
JNK,
I would echo David's comments above. He is encouraging you to do what is safe rather than what is necessarily legal. If Allyn is correct in stating you can store 1.5kg inside, then according to David, it is still an unsafe act, albeit a legal one.

It is up to you to assess the risk and decide if you are exposing yourself (and your family?) to unecessary risk.

I would encourage you to find as much information as you can (which you're doing on this forum) so that you can make an informed decision rather than basing it on whether the act is a legal one or not.
You never know, after your research you may be able to engineer/devise a safe storage system inside your truck.

Cheers
Stephen J.
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Reply By: David - Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 13:28

Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 13:28
JNK

As you appear to be in NSW, I would suggest the following starting points.

1. Workcover Authority NSW - you should be able to easily find this on the net and there should be all the information you need under "Dangerous Goods" (In WA it is www.dmc.wa.gov.au/safety/edg/index.html)

2. Contact a licensed LPG gas fitter, who should be aware of the requirements for storage and transportation and advise accordingly.

3. Contact the LPG Gas companies such as Elgas, Kleenheat, Origin etc and ask them. They have people involved with installations for LPG and should know the requirements inside out.

Generally resellers of cylinders or gas refillers will not be very helpful on the safety aspects because my experiences is that generally they just do not know.

Please note that whilst the regulations are reasonably consistent across Australia they are not all exactly the same in each state.

Rgds

David
AnswerID: 10909

Reply By: OziExplorer - Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 13:42

Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 13:42
I have 2 x 4.5kg gas bottles fitted to my vehicle, and found I got such conflicting opionions on some of the legalities to fitting the gas bottles and the gas installation. What one gas fitter said was ok, the other one said 'no, you cannot do that'.
A website clarifying all the laws for gas cylinders in/fitted to vehicles would be welcome and good safety information for everybody.
AnswerID: 10910

Reply By: Alpaca - Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 16:07

Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 16:07
jnk, Regardless of the debate on the safety and legal aspecs, check with your insurance company as they will settle the liability issue. Personally, I converted to dual fuel stoves (2 single burner units more flexible) and don't have to worry about leaking cylinders, becoming out of date and it is easier to carry spare fuel.
regards alpaca
AnswerID: 10914

Follow Up By: Jnk - Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 16:54

Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 16:54
Apaca - I am not against dual fuel cookers as we have a great little Coleman cooker that we travelled around Europe with, BUT we have a diesel Patrol, so I'm not going to carry Petrol and Shellite is more expensive and difficult to get than LPG for longer trips.

Thanks for your comments anyhow.
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Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 19:37

Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 19:37
I have two Coleman Dual fuel stoves, a small single burner I take on my motorcycle and bushwalking and a two burner, as well as Coleman Gas two burner stove. I would prefer to take the two burner gas stove everytime over the dual fuel stoves.

What is more, the volume of petrol/shellite you have to carry compared to the amount of gas, the gas wins hands down. On the duel fuel stove I can easily use a litre of petrol/shellite a day. On the gas stove, I am flat out using 250gm's of gas.
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Reply By: jnk - Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 16:41

Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 16:41
Thanks for the feedback so far. David - the link to the wa gov dept was incorrect, it's www.dme.wa.gov.au/... and I haven't found anything very relevant there as it all seems to be referring to bulk storage and transport. Same with other state work cover authorities online.

Checked gas industry bodies, gov dept's and resellers web sites and found nothing stating that LPG bottles should not be carried inside a vehicle. Not that I am disputing this as common sense. I'm thanksful to all the responses above. It's something that we have really taken for granted up until now.

I think I will put the cylinder on the roof or back door if possible.

David/Michelle if you are reading - is LPG stowage something you might consider adding to the site as a Hot Topic?
AnswerID: 10916

Reply By: fatboy - Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 17:28

Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 17:28
Hi have you spoken to any of your industrial type gas depots yet , here in QLD it is BOC gases or air liquide they provide a pamphlet on the safe carriage of industrial type gases ( oxy / acetylene etc ) maybe they could help with details for LPG transportation.
AnswerID: 10920

Reply By: Peter - Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 17:55

Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 17:55
jnk,
have to agree with alpacca, dual fuel is certainly the way to go. you say you have a diesel patrol so you are not going to carry petrol as well, then why would you lug gas bottles ,hoses etc. around. much easier to carry 5lt of fuel in a fuel container. they are squarish as well so a lot easier to store than round cylinders. have been converted to dual fuel stoves and lights now for 5 years and have never looked back.

Give it some serious thought

P.S. I drive a diesel cruiser and i carry 5lt of SOLVENT 143 , same as shellite but only $35 for 20lt from local Ampol fuel distributor.
AnswerID: 10922

Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 20:41

Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 20:41
In my case my 4.5kg gas bottles are on either side of the chassis and well out of the way which what would be otherwise useless space.

Never would I take dual fuel stove over gas. You just cannot simmer anything on dual fuel or use it for roasting and baking. The Coleman gas stove is just awesome because of the control you have over the gas. The dual fuel is basically close to full on or off, and if you turn it down to simmer it does not take long to start churning out black smoke.
If you like cooking and eating well in the bush, dual fuel is a real porker compared to gas. For lights I use fluoro and halogen.
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Follow Up By: Peter - Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 21:11

Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 21:11
Hi Oziexplorer,
I can honestly say it leaves gas for dead. never had black smoke problem. Are you using it properly as per instructions? We have 3 burner stove, single burner plus lantern and all work perfectly.
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Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 21:22

Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 21:22
Peter if you need to leave something simmer for a while, yes, black smoke and soot is a problem. That and lack of control of the burner sufficiently is my main problem. No complaints at all in the heat department. I have had these Coleman dual fuel stoves for (shock horror) nearly 30 years, and was only when I started to enjoy cooking fancy meals it really became an issue. I must say, I do find the gas easier and not having to carry the jerry of fuel for the stove and having to fill and pump the stove. I do like the turn on the gas, rotate the self igniting knob and instant controlable heat.
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Reply By: ROWDY - Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 18:24

Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 18:24
JNK
Have you contacted Standards Australia. I believe they have a web site that will give you contact details. They determine the safe handling and storage of most dangerous goods in Australia and New Zealand and most states have endorsed these standards in legislation. They have offices in Sydney ,Melbourne and Canberra and probably in other Capital cities. Check your phone book for your area.
Rowdy
AnswerID: 10925

Follow Up By: Rowdy - Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 11:43

Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 11:43
JNK
Standards aAustralia web site is www.standards.com.au
Rowdy
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Reply By: Truckster - Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 20:52

Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 20:52
Milk Crate on the Roof Rack with a Spring lid..

And gate bolt and lock so it cant jump out.

The milk crate is bolted to the roof Rack.

Again there are some that in our club store them in their rear storage units, even made spaces for them... the original rear storage I bought off a bloke had space for 2 cyls in it!!

I too have seen training vids of cyl explosions, normal training in the RFS where i was...
AnswerID: 10943

Reply By: bruce.h - Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 20:52

Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 20:52
jnk
you could try contacting your local caravan association ishould emagine that this something they would have to deal with allthe time due to the fact caravans & campervans must be past on a regular bases by the local authorities at least they do in WA ie alinta gas might be worth contacting them as well
Regards Bruce
AnswerID: 10944

Reply By: rodeoowner - Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 22:47

Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 22:47
jnk, the law relating to the transport of LPG can be found in the 'Australian Dangerous Goods Code'. In short you are allowed to carry up to 25.4kg of LPG in the passenger compartment of a vehicle. Plastic plugs are available for primus style and POL style gas valves on cylinders. These screw into the valve, so as to stop any leaks while transporting them. They may be available for companion style but I have never seen them. The POL plug is also available in brass. Hope this helps.
AnswerID: 10959

Follow Up By: Jnk - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 09:23

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 09:23
I did have a Companion 1.25Kg cylinder until recently and it had a plastic cap, not really a plug that would adequately stop a leak. I'm in the process of buying a new 4.5Kg bottle, so I'll compare Primus, Companion and other brands.

regards j 'n' k
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Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 11:51

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 11:51
Rodeoowner you can buy those 3/8"LH thread plastic blanking plugs. I bought some at all places BBQ's Galore just before Christmas. Cannot remember how much they were, but they were cheap. I wanted to use them to keep dust out.
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Reply By: rodeoowner - Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 22:55

Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 22:55
jnk, the law relating to the transport of LPG can be found in the 'Australian Dangerous Goods Code'. In short you are legally allowed to carry 25.4kg of LPG in the passenger compartment of a vehicle.

There are plastic plugs available to suit Primus and POL style cylinder valves, which when screwed into the valve will prevent any leakage should the valve 'shake' loose. They may be available for Companion style valves as well, but I have never seen them. The POL plugs are avilable in brass also.

Hope this helps.
AnswerID: 10960

Follow Up By: Rodeoowner - Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 22:58

Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 22:58
Oops, I thought I lost the 1st one!
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Reply By: Member - Kevin - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 12:43

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 12:43
Try this link:

http://www.workcover.nsw.gov.au/Subsites/Faq/list.asp?Area=19

If I interpret this correctly you shouldn't carry them inside the vehicle at all unless vented to the outside, and also shouldnt carry them on a roof rack or anywhere else that protrudes outside the lines of the vehicle.

I was happier when I didn't know how dangerous they were inside vehicles as I have carried a 4 KG Primus cylinder with plastic plug all over the country. Put it inside an open plastic plasterers bucket, padded with foam and thankfully had no problems.

Cheers

Kevin
AnswerID: 10988

Follow Up By: Truckster - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 15:19

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 15:19
Wanna see gas tanks explode?

Search Google for BLEVE
Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapour Explosion... is the real meaning...
Bloody Loud Explosion Very Exciting was our name for it in the RFS in the Shire!
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Follow Up By: Member - Kevin - Monday, Jan 13, 2003 at 14:16

Monday, Jan 13, 2003 at 14:16
I'm RFS too - very familiar with that acronym. So I don't carry them in the vehicle anymore.
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