To drain or not to drain.

Submitted: Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 22:05
ThreadID: 2883 Views:3830 Replies:14 FollowUps:15
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To setle a bet, To keep an esky's contents (beer) coldest the longest should you drain the melted ice water or keep it as it is still cold ?

The way i see it is the ice is being wasted cooling the water which is a large volume and wont last as long.

I may be wrong, any thoughts ?
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Reply By: OziExplorer - Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 22:28

Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 22:28
Yes, you most definitely should drain the water as the water melts the ice.

Reason the water is at a higher tempreture to the ice. That is why it has melted.
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Follow Up By: Thepublican - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 13:23

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 13:23
Please dont tell me that your the same Oziexplorer know all who infests the overlander forum ?
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Follow Up By: Thepublican - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 14:17

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 14:17
Yes definitly the one and the same pest ,only adds an s to explorer ,
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 15:56

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 15:56
LMAO
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Reply By: chopper - Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 23:00

Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 23:00
If you are cooling by 'conduction' (having your products immersed, in physical contact with your cooling medium - ice or 'slush') then the extra volume may be required.
however if you are cooling by 'convection' (having your products cooled while not in contact with the medium eg the tinnie sitting above the ice) then the removal of the water will help the ice last longer.

We have found the following to be a useful scenario.

Place one or two blocks of ice in the bottom of the esky. Load esky and then poor as much party ice over it as you can. If you are base camping put the esky somewhere cool, try half burying it in sand under a shady tree covered with a wet towel.
If you are offroading use more blocks and less party ice.

so in answer to your question, eventually, in most cases it is best to drain the water, unless it will lower the volume of the cooling medium to the point that your products will no longer be exposed to such medium.

there ya go.

chopper
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Reply By: Chris - Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 23:18

Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 23:18
If you have unlimited supplies of ice, I agree that the water should be drained.
BUT there is another side : If you have no replacement ice, by draining the water, which theoretically is almost 0 degrees, what are you replacing it with? Warm air at outside or room temp which can be as high as 25 degrees? This will cause the remaining ice to have to cool down the beer AND the medium (which is now air).

When in bush, cold water should not be drained - thats my vote
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Reply By: Member - ROBERT - Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 23:20

Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 23:20
WHAT I HAVE DONE IS TO PUT IN A FALSE FLOOR IN MY ESKY SO THAT THE MELTED ICE LIES UNDER THE BLOCK. I JUST USE A RUBBER MATT THAT IS ABOUT ONE INCH THICK. THIS MAKES THE BLOCK ICE LAST A LOT LONGER, BUT YOU HAVE TO DRAIN THE WATER OUT DAILY. MY BLOCK ICE THAT I MAKE MYSELF ( ABOUT 30CM CUBED) LASTS FOR 12 DAYS BY THIS METHOD. THE SECRET IS THAT THE ICE MUST NOT BE IN THE WATER. HOPE THIS SETTLES THE BET..
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Reply By: member-skippyking - Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 23:22

Thursday, Jan 09, 2003 at 23:22
From the EverKool website under esky's/ice boxes,

"Ice will melt less quickly if melted ice-water is left in the ice box."

From personal experience, beer is colder when in iced water. Reason......the can/stubbie is in contact with cold water and ice over it's entire surface, whereas in just ice, there is a considerable amount of the surface exposed to air. Of air, water, ice, the air is the warmest medium. Always! (until the ice has all melted)

So leave it in a slurry.

SK
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Follow Up By: Dion - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 02:27

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 02:27
SK, spot on advice. A stubbie or can sitting in normal commercial ice cubes would only be lucky to have 10-15% of the containers surface in contact with the cooling medium. Crushed or shaved ice you might get up to 50-60%. However in water, the container is practically 100% in contact with the cooling medium, therefore more cooling effect, provided there is still ice in the water. Simple experiment, use two identical warm/hot cans of beer, place one in normal commercial cube ice, and the other in a predominately water/ice slurry, and in five minutes, the can and more importantly its contents will be much colder and therefore more palatable than the can in ice.
Or invest in an Engel.
Cheers,
Dion.
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Follow Up By: Dion - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 02:31

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 02:31
Also to my proceeding. Basic fundamental of refrigeration principal is about heat transfer. Refrigerators and ice don't make products cold - well they do. The product lowers its temperature by giving off heat to the cooling medium, therefore the more of the product in contact with the cooling medium, the better the transfer of heat and the more enjoyable the product.
Still, you can always rely on the Engel.
Cheers,
Dion.
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Follow Up By: Colin - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 20:12

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 20:12
Dion, get an explorer frdge, more efficient and made by aussys not japs!!!. Col
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Reply By: kezza - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 00:19

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 00:19
Interesting logic being bandied around, Its actually the volume as well as the temperature differential, Which will stay hot longest? - a cup or a bucket of boiling water?? while the ice may melt faster if its in contact with the water it usually melts faster anyway beause its not at minus18degrees right through anymore, the esky still has a bigger volume of cold inside which will take longer to warm up.

Another trick question for ya
Yer up in the high country just poured a hot cup of tea and a flamin trout has just take the line and you gotta go reel him in BUT - you want the tea to be as hot as possible when you get back.

Do you put the milk in before you go or when you get back??
ie Which will be the hottest - the tea which you put the milk into straight away or the tea you put the milk into when you get back??

Debate that one

Kezzzza
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Follow Up By: Member - Cruiser1 - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 04:32

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 04:32
Mine. I always drink my tea black! :)
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Follow Up By: Chopper - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 07:45

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 07:45
put the milk in first.
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Follow Up By: Savvas - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 08:23

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 08:23
Stuff the tea, you can boil another.

I want the trout!
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Follow Up By: Lyds - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 09:01

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 09:01
I remember old Professor Julius Sumner Miller doing this experiment - ah the things you remeber eh?

You add the milk first because it lowers rate of change; just don't add a glass and a half of full cream dairy milk :-).

Amazing.
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Follow Up By: Member - Keith - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 20:44

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 20:44
And the Professors question I remember: two tray of water for ice cubes about to be put in the freezer, one with hot water, the other with water at room temp - Q: Which tray freezer first? Yeah, it's the hot one but I can't remember the reason!!!!
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Reply By: Member - Mal - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 10:50

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 10:50
Lyds is right with the hot stuff. With the cold stuff: What I do is take an another small esky and store the next lot of drinks in it. When you drain the water off from the esky with ice in it, you tip it into the small esky to pre-cool the drinks. That way you don't waste any "coldness". Mal T.
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Reply By: Kev. - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 13:11

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 13:11
Some interesting reading. a few good tips brought forward like Mal's idear of using the water to pre cool cans as it seems to be a waste to throw out something cold in a hot envornment.

Thanks.
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Reply By: Member - Peter- Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 13:13

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 13:13
try drinking rum , it is a lot easier to drink once all the cold water and ice is gone than to be stuck with hot beer ..Peter
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Reply By: ThePublican - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 13:14

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 13:14
Kev, beer is at its optimum temperature 2 to 4 degrees so by all means keep your ice water until all ice has melted, then top up with new ice, studies conducted for the Australian Hotels Association by Monash University show that to bring a 6pk of cans from room temp 22degrees to the recommended 2 degrees takes on average 1x 3.5kg bag of party ice. Baileys / Evercool recommend for the maximum efective use of ice in their products,prechill if possible and keep the ice water.
AnswerID: 10992

Reply By: Kev. - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 13:19

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 13:19
I heard Carl k on triple J awile back talk about the tea trick .
You add the milk first as it increases the volume therfore cooling slower.

Kev.
AnswerID: 10994

Reply By: flappan - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 14:36

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 14:36
For those with poor taste, you could always drink pommie beer.

Ice no longer applies.
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Follow Up By: Savvas - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 14:49

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 14:49
Boom, boom!

Very witty flappan
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Follow Up By: Thepublican - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 16:09

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 16:09
Foster,s larger now brewed in pommyland is generaly served up cold ,even to the philistines frequenting Sloan Square.
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Reply By: bruce.h - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 17:34

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 17:34
who cares as long as the bloody beers cold
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Follow Up By: Bruce.H - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 17:36

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 17:36
better stil buy a fridge then the only thing that needs drianing is the beer
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Reply By: Allyn - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 23:13

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 23:13
Drink faster - it solves all problems !
Seriously, have you ever been able to leave your hand in the slurry for longer than a couple of minutes?
Eskies these days are so efficient that the ice in my Bailey/EvaKool lasts near on a week in the full Pilbara sun. Can't complain too much about that.
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Follow Up By: Johnsy - Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 12:17

Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 12:17
make the ice with salt water and it will last even longer but I like the fridge idea better for the top end of oz BEER MUST BE COLD BAKED BEANS MUST BE HOT and the drink faster idea has merit cya johnsy
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