Fuel Filter Replacement Time

Submitted: Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 09:35
ThreadID: 2888 Views:11181 Replies:9 FollowUps:27
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Hi,

I've got a 93 turbo deisel 80 series that I have owned for about 2 years and have done 40,000km in myself. It is now up to 210,000 so I thought time to replace the fuel filters. The filters on it now were as I had bought it 2 years ago (yes, I have been lazy)

It has what I thought were two inline fuel filters. When I got a mirror out to look at the model/brand of the first filter, it turned out to be a Fitch fuel catalyst. Looking at the Fitch website, it claims that these will last for 400,000km. I makes some big claims about fuel consumption being reduced by around 10%, along with other benefits.

Question: Has anyone fitted these and can verify any dramatic or small change to the fuel consumption of their 4wd?

The second filter (upstream from the Fitch) is a Ryco Z380 so this should be easy and cheap enough to replace. I am getting the injectors, fuel pump and valves done in a couple of weeks and want to get the filters done before then. The place that is doing my injection is recommending they can supply and fit the Lucas/CAV filters.

Question: Is there an economical and better replacement than the Ryco or Lucas/CAV filter. What are peoples thoughts?

Wazza.
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Reply By: OziExplorer - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 10:01

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 10:01
Fitch are just snake oil salesman like so many other supposed fuel 'saving' gadgets. In the quest for reduction of fuel consumption and/or increase in power, manufacturers of course would fit these type of things as standard if they worked. Unfortunatly many people are easily parted from their money. There is a UK website (cannot remember URL) that shows none of these devices work.

I used to fit CAV filters to my vehicles, but don't anymore. The quality of diesel fuel and the chances of getting a load of water have substantially reduced. With the design of fuel tanks today you also do not get the condensation problems that were common in the past. As that unit that is fitted to your vehicle has a warning light to warn you if water is present and a tap to drain it off, I would not add another filter. I do carry a spare in the vehicle with me when going on a long trip just in case, but have never had to use it.

We change our diesel filters every 40,000k's or 18 months. If you are only using fuel from service station bowsers, this is considered to be satisfactory, or follow the guidelines in your service book.
Ryco is an excellent quality filter and would recomend you continue using them. With you getting all your diesel fuel system overhauled I would put on a new filter at the same time. The CAV 7111-296 or Ryco R2132P is a substantially cheaper filter compared to the Z380, however, in the life of the vehicle, you would not make the savings by changing over and fitting a complete CAV filter.
As for the Fitch, well, just forget it is there. Unlikely to do any harm.
AnswerID: 10979

Follow Up By: Wazza - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 11:01

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 11:01
Ozi, thought as much about the Fitch. The car also has a Hiclone on it that the previous owner fitted. Might not do much good, but like you say, can't do any harm. Will grab a Z380 when I am out and about today.
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Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 11:13

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 11:13
Wazza Supercheap have a large range of Ryco filters at the best prices I have seen in the retail market place and *substantially* cheaper than Repco - around 30% cheaper. So if you have a SuperCheap, give them a go. While on the subject of filters, I would recomend you stick to either the Ryco or genuine product only. There are other good brands available, but certainly no better than Ryco, but you are better keeping an Australian in a job as the large majority of Ryco are made in Australia. There are also some unknown brands available, which can be dubious quality, and unfortunatly, there is no way to know if they are any good or not unless you buy one and cut it apart and test it.
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Follow Up By: Allyn - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 23:07

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 23:07
CAV filter adaptor costs $95 (with filter) which is about the price of 2 Ryco filters. Lucas filters are less than ten bucks so after two filter changes you're even. Cheaper filter allows me to change them every 20K and once cost of adaptor is recovered I would be quite happy to change every 10K.
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Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 07:39

Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 07:39
Allyn but why would you change from a filter with finer micron rating to one that has a larger micron rating and so is an inferior product. Does not make sense.
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Follow Up By: Blitzdriver - Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 09:12

Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 09:12
with high pressure diesel system cav diesel filter must not be used
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Follow Up By: Allyn - Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 16:11

Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 16:11
I use the Lucas 7111-296 but the adaptor is CAV type.
Does this still apply?
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Reply By: lindsay - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 13:06

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 13:06
I feel that I must add to the line regarding the ryco fuel filter. I run 3 trucks loaders & tractors and I don't use ryco. cut a Lucas apart see how much paper is in it. then cut a ryco apart to see the amount and quality of the paper. I used to run ryco until a diesel mechanic told me to cut one apart, it was quite clear which was the better filter. I now use Lucas/CAV on the tractors and a fertiliser spreading truck. Use Balwin on another (Cummins) Ryco may have changed recently however cheap filters end up costing you $
AnswerID: 10989

Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 13:40

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 13:40
Lindsay suggest you contact Ryco either by their toll free phone number or their website and ask them to send you out the litreture about the difference between the CAV7111-296 element and their R2132P.

Cutting filters apart and appearing into them is not a scientific way of saying one is better than the other. I really hate to tell you, the specifications of the Ryco R2132P are superior to the 7111-296 (or whatever the new number is they call it) and despite appearance the R2132P has a larger surface filtering medium due to the type of filtering medium that is used.

Ryco has never ever been a 'cheap' filter. They may have cost less money than others, but certainly never below the manufacturers specifications and often and usually better. In most cases, original equipment filters supplied by the major brands are manufactured by Ryco. Ryco have a world wide distribution, but not always under the Ryco name. Ryco also own a large American filter company.
In the GUD stable is:
Sunbeam Corporation
Sunbeam Victa
Goss Products
Davey Pumps
Lock Focus
Heavy Duty Filters
Wesfil Australia
GUD Manufacturing
GUD are a company that Australian's can certainly be proud of and hopefully support because of their good quality and price. Thankfully, this is a company doing its best to keep Australians in a job in Australia and with exports.

Baldwin is also an excellent filter. You may like to know, Baldwin have just signed a quite interesting technology deal with Ryco filters (GUD Manufacturing Australia). More than a feather in their cap wouldn't you say!
Be careful when buying Baldwin that you are getting a genuine Baldwin and not a pirate look alike copy. Same issue with Fleetguard.
Yes, we use Baldwin as well where we cannot buy Ryco.
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Follow Up By: Nick - Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 09:15

Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 09:15
I am not happy with ryco filters.

I used to purchase the Z161 for my toyota 2h engine. When you inspect the filter before installing it, have a look at the thread that is cut into the filter to hold it into the filter housing.

The thread contains burrs, fine slivers of steel & metal particles left over from the thread cutting. They have to be carefully removed by holding the filter upside down & using tweezes to remove slivers of steel as well as using a toothbrush & cotton bud to remove metal particles.

If these particles are not removed then they may dislodge when installing the filter & cause engine damage / failure.

I know that the Toyota Genuine, WIX & Fleetguard filters have had their threads cut properly & the area has been thoroughly cleaned to remove all metal particles before the filter is crimped together.

Not just the Z161 but many other ryco products.

Have a look at your ryco filters before installing one next time before you go telling everybody about how great they are
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Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 09:50

Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 09:50
Nick I have seen some misinformation posted in my time, but your post is the worst for a long time.

Firstly there is NO thread cutting done whatsoever on any Ryco filter.
All the top caps are a stamped and rolled and you will not find a thread cutting tool of any description in the Ryco manufacturing line.

The genuine Toyota filters are also made in Australia by GUD/Ryco and have been for probably for 25 years. This is exactly the same as Nissan, Mitsubishi, Ford, General Motors Holden, Daihatsu etc. etc.

WIX (world wide) is a 100% owned company of GUD Holdings and all the WIX filters that are Japanese part numbers are made by GUD Manufacturing which is Ryco.

Nick may I suggest you contact Ryco and ask them to take you for a visit through their manufacturing plant and you will then see it is absolutely 100% impossible to have loose metal of any type in their filters.
When you come out from seeing the Ryco filters being manufactured you could not help but be thoroughly impressed with the cleanliness and what can only be described as some of the highest quality control and attention to detail I have seen anywhere. With my profession being involved in manufacturing all my life, predominantly in the automotive industry, I can certianly speak with some authority and knowledge.

Nick perhaps you should try putting both feet in next time.
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Follow Up By: Nick - Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 10:45

Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 10:45
The texture of the steel on the thread is bright wheras the rest of the filter head is a satin finish, clearly indicating that the thread has been cut using a tap or other form of cutting tool.

If the entire filter head was stamped out then the metal texture would be uniform.

As for Ryco manufacturing filters for Toyota & WIX then this may be the case but it does not mean that the filter is identical to the RYCO product.

I have cut open all brands & the differences are obvious.

If Ryco are manufacturing filters under contract to a particular company then they must produce filters to fit that companies requirements. For their own product they can do what they want.

Try looking at the filter before screwing it on next time.



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Reply By: Truckster - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 15:38

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 15:38
Anyone who would let a filter get 400,000klms old in Australia needs committing to a nut house!

Maybe in Europe or places where they have clean decent diesel...

Lucas Cav filters get top raps on the patrol and melbourne lists, they are my next investment, I only replaced the fuel filter on mine 10,000klms ago... For the price, mine are changed every 20,000 tops. It doesnt hurt...

As for getting them done before then get them done at the same time. Get them to fit the Lucas Cav setup...
AnswerID: 11004

Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 22:24

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 22:24
The current diesel filters on the majority (if not all) of Japanese vehicles are a better filter than the CAV. The micron rating of the Japanese filters is finer and have considerably more area than a CAV. The filtering medium used in a CAV is technically out of date. Sure it does the job it is designed to do, but the newer type of filtering media provide substantially superior performance. Why change your existing filter to something not as good as you have - not a smart move at all.

Don't you people do your research on these things. About time you stopped living in the dark ages and modernised and stopped wasting money. There is no substitute for research before changing things.

If you look in your manual that came with your vehicle, they normally recomend 40,000 from memory, which is usually quite sufficient with the general quality of fuel that is sold today. In the dark old days the vehicle fuel tanks and fuel systems in themself were half the problem and caused the issue. All those issues in modern vehicles are non-existent.
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Reply By: colin - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 20:03

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 20:03
Hi , i have a 92 diesal patrol and am a heavy transport operator my truck gets serviced every 250hrs and all the filters get changed at that time, so with my patrol every 5000ks i do the same, i use fleet guard filters and have never had any problems with either vehicle, i recommend the fuel filter on a diesal get changed at every service any vehicle has, cheap insurance!!. Col
AnswerID: 11016

Follow Up By: Truckster - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 20:52

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 20:52
Yup totally agree...

it aint that expensive to do, and its better to be safe than STUCK.. Or the Wife Stuck, oh can you imagine the brown stuff flying when she gets home then!!!
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Follow Up By: Colin - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 21:21

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 21:21
no brown stufff she has her car and hands off mine problem solved. Col
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Follow Up By: Colin - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 21:28

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 21:28
ps her car is in the shop getting fixed, shes cabbing it at the moment, best to be safe than sorry. Col
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Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 22:27

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 22:27
You must be a poor financially trucky doing all that unecessary service and maintainence. Many trucks today are going up to 80,000km between oil changes and 500 hours between general service. You must be buying diesel from some crook outlets if you need to change your filters that often. Then again, you may just be over servicing badly.
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 23:07

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 at 23:07
Good for them.

yes the only problems Ive had with Diesel is from shiat outlets like Safeway and then un-named places.

You would have rocks in your head to service a car every 80,000... But then again obvious really....
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Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 07:58

Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 07:58
Truckster the fuel at Safeway/Woolworths +Petrol is some of the only fuel that is fully filtered before it gets into your tank. Truck bleep about tie you went and did some research instead of dribbling manure. You just prefer to denergrate good Australian companies and everything without bothering to find out. What is more, Safeway/Woolworths +Petrol have stated now publicly and the e-mail received from them posted here, that all their fuel complies to the Australian Standard and they have never added ethanol or any cutters of any sort to their fuel. They have also stated that if they did they would put up signs advising the public and what percentage ethanol or cutters they were adding.
The only people that have rocks in their head are people that stupidly over service and are environmental vandals. 80,000km oil changes with oil testing along the way is now fairly normal stuff for most transport companies. Oil technically never wears out, it is only the detergents and additives that do. With good filtration and the standard of lubricants available today 80,000km oil changes will not be far away in normal everday motor vehicles. The Mercedes Vito and Fiat Ducatto diesel trucks now go up to 35,000km or 18 months between oil changes.
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 09:29

Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 09:29
The only people that have rocks in their head are people that stupidly over service and are environmental vandals.

Yes ozi you are right keep believing it, you will actually think you are right about everythign on earth, oh hang on you already do.

How do you get the environmental vandals bit? Oil is recycled, so whats the problem, or dont you recycle yours you bleep in Vandal?

80,000km oil changes with oil testing along the way is now fairly normal stuff for most transport companies

Crap! Prior to getting into IT, I drove semis for 8 yrs, what would you like to know? 80,000?? LMAO!


80,000km oil changes will not be far away in normal everday motor vehicles.

but it aint here, and hasnt been EVER YET...... so you just shot your arguement in the head.. if you would like to save the arguement, put your head in the way of the bullet.


The Mercedes Vito and Fiat Ducatto diesel trucks now go up to 35,000km or 18 months between oil changes.

LMAO 35,000 or 18 months, if you only did 35,000 in 18 months in transport you would go broke... considering lots of blokes I ran with did 3 Sydney Brisbane trips a week.

AND 35,000 is a lot different to 80,000! (fyi its more than twice 35,000...)

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Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 09:55

Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 09:55
Truckmanure intersting you have to use terms like " bleep in Vandal' to try and make yourself look a big man! Not very polite or gentleman like for the ladies and youth reading this forum. Perhaps you may learn to tone down your language and use proper English and refrain from shouting to try and boost your problematical ego.
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Follow Up By: Thepublican - Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 12:34

Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 12:34
And in the world of Aus; Ozi is allways correct,no amount of plain truth or even general disaggreement with his opinion will calm him.Dosage required,1 large brandy and 10mg valium.
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Follow Up By: Colin - Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 18:17

Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 18:17
Hi oziexplorer, well im not a poor trucker as i dont have to spend big doolars on engine rebuilds due to lack of maintanance. If you look into the service intervilles on the latest euro iii engines in the transport industry you will find the services are up to 20000 ks, volvo scania, and the oils used are euro iii grade oils as well,they also have a spin filter that spins out the bad bits which also prolongs the life of the oil. Most trucks on our roads are not up to these specs yet, but as time goes by they will be. How can changing a fuel filter be an enviromental vandel, as these items are recycable, and save pumps and associated equipment from failure and engines not running to there true performance, ie less pollution. Col
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 21:28

Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 21:28
Colin, dont let facts get in the way...

Remember
RULE 1. OZI IS RIGHT EVEN WHEN WRONG
RULE 2. See rule 1.
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Reply By: blitzdriver - Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 09:18

Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 09:18
i stopped working in trucking last year with mack and kenworth with cummings on linehaul and isuzu on short haul kenworth and macks 80000 kilometer oil changes and isuzu 55000 kilometer oil changes diesel and hydraulic filter 12 months
AnswerID: 11047

Reply By: blitzdriver - Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 09:19

Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 09:19
i stopped working in trucking last year with mack and kenworth with cummings on linehaul and isuzu on short haul kenworth and macks 80000 kilometer oil changes and isuzu 55000 kilometer oil changes diesel and hydraulic filter 12 months
AnswerID: 11048

Follow Up By: Colin - Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 18:26

Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 18:26
there are lots of vehicles out there running the ks you say but i can qaranty the running costs would be higher than vehicles which run to the specified service intervilles, i know a lot of companys have fitted extra filter units for the fuel and oil, but i have to say 80000ks between services is asking for trouble, and if you run a vehicle which has a hydraulic system, you should be running of an hour meter not ks. Col
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Follow Up By: Oziexplorer - Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 21:42

Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 21:42
Colin running to 80,000k services is now pretty standard for most smart transport companies. They do oil testing along the way and they are running all synthetics. You cannot equate mineral oil with synthetic as they really are completely different products. The filtering they use is not all that different to standard.
Go and look at the difference in warranties with synthetic oil against mineral oil. The proof is there, and the savings are there. These large transport companies don't do anything that does not save them money including flogging their drivers.
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Follow Up By: Colin - Sunday, Jan 12, 2003 at 16:48

Sunday, Jan 12, 2003 at 16:48
ozie, i wasnt comparing oils, i agree about the two different oils, but if you look my first statement euro iii oils are synthetic, and i disagree that the filtering system is not much different to standard, as this is where the difference lies in making the whole system work to keep the oil to be able to keep a long working life. I cant speak for the latest american motors but i do know the european engines dont have services over 30000ksunder warranty. And about flogging their drivers obviously you havent worked in the transport industry. Col
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Reply By: Peter - Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 23:53

Saturday, Jan 11, 2003 at 23:53
Fight you buggers, I hate peace!

Now to get back to Wazza's question.

I had a Lucas/Cav type filter fitted to my n/a 1HZ Landcruiser.
A diesel technician advised that the increased suction to draw the fuel through the Cav type filter(because of the higher level of filtration over the standard filter) could be a problem for the denso pump as they have a particular integrated "lift" pump mechanism.
He highly recommended fitting two CAVs run in parrallel in order to increase flow & reduce suction.

Before doing so I ran my own trial off the vehicle by running a known quantity of diesel through each filter with a length of pipe and a container to ensure the same "head".
It took slightly more than twice as long to run through the CAV than the Z380 Ryco I was previously using (both filters were brand new)
My logic says the CAV type must filter better.
(Specs say they are "nominal" 5 Micron.)
AnswerID: 11092

Follow Up By: Matt - Sunday, Jan 12, 2003 at 08:20

Sunday, Jan 12, 2003 at 08:20
Interesting Information, confirms what the diesel tech told you.

The CAV may not be filtering better, the reduced flow of fuel may be attributed to the surface area of the element.

The Z380 will have a much larger surface area of the element than the CAV. I have heard of people putting a CAV before the Z380, this will create excessive suction restriction for the fuel pump.

Do you know the micron rating of the Z380?
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Follow Up By: Peter - Sunday, Jan 12, 2003 at 09:01

Sunday, Jan 12, 2003 at 09:01
G-day Matt,
I.m not sure I agree that the Z380 (or OEM) has a significantly greater filtration area. If you cut one open you find that the bottom 30 - 40% of the cartridge is empty(the equivalent of the CAV's glass bowl, or more). Also, the Z380/OEM have a 1/4 inch gap between the outside wall of the cartridge and the filtration media. That being said the media itself may be different.

Someone(can't remember whom) told me the OEM filters were 15 Micron, but I don't know if that's "nominal" or "absolute"
Even if "absolute" it's not as good as the CAV (if 15 is correct).

My best suggestion for anyone considering filtration issues is to talk to injection technicians - after all these are the people who witness first hand the folly (or otherwise) of using different filter types and the frequency of servicing.

Peter L
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Reply By: mike - Sunday, Jan 12, 2003 at 22:25

Sunday, Jan 12, 2003 at 22:25
I'd stick with the oem filter system on the vehicle, some Toyota's have 2 in line. Change it every 40000ks/12months or when you can't go fast.
Someone mentioned ( nominal or absolute rateings) which relate to the size of the holes in the paper & percentage of particles of size x which will pass through. Ask your filter supplier if he can supply you with a {Beta} rateing which tells you how good a filter realy is. Few manufactures can or will supply this imformation. Lastly a fuel filter does not filter properly when first installed, it takes a couple of hours for the element to swell to it's rateing. I have proved this by measureing the delta p (press drop across the filter)
regards Mike
AnswerID: 11157

Reply By: wazza - Monday, Jan 13, 2003 at 08:02

Monday, Jan 13, 2003 at 08:02
Thanks all for your replies. I have fitted the Ryco Z380 for now as my mate picked up a couple for me from his shop for nix and I can't argue with that price. Will have a chat to the guys servicing the car (Berrima Deisel) and see what they have to say about the CAV in a few weeks time. Again, thanks for your replies.
AnswerID: 11164

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