STUCK! Challenger add-a-leaf

The photos make it easy to see the problem, I hope it is just as easy to fix.

Wayne

Before you jack it up release the lower end of the shocks to give you more travel, if needed place a block between the spring and the chassis as close to the shackle as possible ( after you twist the shackle down) then slowly jack up the axle The idea is to hold the spring away from the chassis while it is compressed enough to force the shackle into the right position. Looking at the other spring fitting it looks to me as if it will fit once the shackle is reversed. All you can do is give it as try, it might improve your crawlability. Barnray.
PS Merry Xmas One and All. B

Yup thats exactly what I'm worried about!

I only got the kit (mail-order) and didn't re-curve the current leaf's because the bloke who sold the kit reackoned re-curving only lasts a few months and even with the re-hardening they would do, wouldn't make it last much longer. They would sag again and the re-hardening etc would have weakened them anyway. Soooo on with the kit and its just the extra leaf on each side. So, no, no spring place to blame I'm afraid the buck stops with me this time. Need to find a solution if I can.

Its like with the new curve it isn't long enough to get around the other way. I tried using G-Clamps to flatten them out to get more length. Tried that with a jack under the axle and event the weight of the car didn't give me enough length to get it to go around the other way.

Dunno wtf to try tomorrow.

I think there the wrong springs or faulty , dude. May i ask were you got them from . I have come across this a lot lately . Personally , I would have added a extra leaf to my own springs . Have never gone wrong that way , when fitting aftermarket springs they is usually 4 out of 6 that are stuffed. Go back to were you purchased them and get them to sort it out . For now you may have to put in your old springs to get around . I wouldn'y waste any time trying to rectify what you have now

Thats gonna be depressing, but might be my only recourse till after the new year. They are Rancho add-a-leaf, got them sent over to WA from 4WD1 in NSW. The bloke on the phone (Kirk) has been great though and I don't think there will be a problem returning them if needs be.

There was also a problem with the bushes I ordered at the same time. The front ones internal diameter was too small to allow the bolt through (15mm ID, needed 16mm ID) so there was some manic running around to get that bored out as I'd destroyed the original Mitsu one getting it out. Luckily I only did one side. He's sending another (correct) set to replace those. So maybe, just maybe the leaf's the wrong one too. I'll have to that when they're back after Chrissy break (Jan 3 :-(

I hope I don't have to just take them out but it might be the only choice I have if we want to drive anywhere over chrissy.

So what would the consequences be if I do manage to turn the shackles around and they invert whilst out driving? How far could I get without anything else getting stuffed up?

well on a hi way , probably nothing but a vibration or drone through the car , or road , not a good idea . I dont think you will get them the other way , to eeven try , there obviously the wrong springs not to sit right straight away . Now , just a thought . I have never fitted ranchos to a not American vehicle wthought a slight mod , that includes driling out bushes , I dont fit them any more , if that helps

Oh yeah, they're the original springs, the kit is just two extra leaf's and a couple of new centre bolts.
I also got new bushes, and yeah the front one needed to be drilled out (I only did one front side after that, they are gonna send another set of bushes - the right ones).

The thing to do is get a Shackle inversion plate made up. This would weld on the front edge of the shackle so that the shackle cannot trip and sit as in the second photo, the welded plate would prevent the shackle from inverting,

Then add a lot of weight to the back and see where it will sit loaded. You may find loaded ite ok but the plates will stop it inverting in rough off road driving.

The shackle is in two parts, one with the two bolts welded on it, the other just a plate with 2 holes in it. For a bracket to weld to the shackle it would only be on one side. I'm thinking if I go down that route it would be better welded to the chassis because then it would be in the centre.

Have you see this done before?
I reackon you're right and with some fiddling (now that I know how to get it around) even with the extra plate I can get it to sit the right way, but yeah it would need something in place to stop it coming back the other way.

As it happens I'm gonna have to hunt around the wreckers for another shackle because I ruined the thread on one of them whilst doing this job.

This job's turning into a real pigs breakfast.

Sounds to me like you have the shocks at least up the right way, and the drain holes also right. as for the # 3 position, this is way to soft for road use. The only time you would go below about 6 or 7 is when you are off road hunting traction. The idea of the position valving as i understand it is for rebound only, set it light (low number) if you want the tyre to get back to the ground quickly for traction. On road with it set at 3 you will probably get sea sick if the springs were working that is. I run my Rancho's at 8 or 9 all the time on black top, makes the vehicle firm in the corners etc.

Yeah, they (The shock’s) are the right way around; they sit the other way I.E Red Boot down on some GMC 4WD’s Only.

I talked to Eddie (was lucky to catch him). He had a go at me about buying over east too. Understandably, he wasn't too interested in helping, and there wasn't anything could think of to suggest. He said the kit I had was the wrong one but said there wasn't one for my vehicle. I told him it was a Montero Sport in the US, he said it wasn't. But qualified that by saying he didn't work on Mitsubishi's.

Sarge, I'd take the jibe with good grace but for the facts:
1. Eddie doesn't advertise anything for Mitsubishi's, doesn't mention them anywhere on his website. Why would I have called him?
2. The ppl I bought from were advertising shocks for my vehicle, I called them and the good salesperson suggested he had an add-a-leaf kit for my vehicle. He didn't mention it was also by Rancho. Nobody in WA I spoke to would supply a kit, and only wanted to fit a kit themselves for around $500. The kit was $165 delivered.

Thanks for the help Sarge, but believe me I'm kicking myself enough without anyone else putting the boot in.

So it turns out it was false economy, but fair cop, who wouldn't have chosen the kit over fitted? I'm not made of money.

Gee;s mate, how well will a shockie from a coil sprung 1200kg crapadore work on a leaf sprung 1800kg Challenger especially if it is used off road? Shockies are matched to spring rates. I think the fella has the wrong springs!!
Regards Ken.

I got the shocks (Rancho 9000's) because the bloke said the standard shocks only have 40mm extra travel, and whilst they should be ok, the extra leaf could give up to 50mm lift (depending on how mucht he originals had sagged from new). So there was a chance the originals coule over-extend (dunno what the consequences of that would be but it didn't sound like I wanted it to happen). I got the new shocks because they will allow lots more travel, also they are adjustable.

Got me knackered now, did I want the extra travel? Is the risk of over extending the original shocks a possibility of causing damage?

The shocks just extend as afar as they need upto the length of their shaft. Surely you don't want the shocks acting as a limiter to the amount of travel? or is that exactly what they are for?

I would have thought that more travel in the shocks would mean the leaf's would hang down further?

Can you give more info Ken/Eric?

Just looking at the shape of things and how they appear to work together my take on it is this. The curve of the set with extra leaf it seems to me is what is causing the problem. The standard leaf's didn't have much curve in them (they got some extra curve from having the extra leaf there - which is what made getting them back in hard even after taking the extra leaf off). So when new they mustn't have much curve in them either (guessing)...
Logic tells me, as the leaf set is compressed they are made flatter, therefore increasing the length between the two ends and pushing the shackle in the right direction. The extra leaf supplied is increasing the curve and therefore decreasing the distance between the two ends. A flatter extra leaf would allow a wider curve, greater distance between the ends of the set and therefore would allow it to meet the shackle at a better angle (anything less then a straight line should be enough that when extending it goes in the right direction.

In this case the shackle is inverting because of the shorter distance between the two ends of the leaf's, due to the extra curve in them, not because of they dropping down. With the angle between the shackle and the leaf now less than 180 degrees when the leaf extends (under weight etc) it then folds the wrong way. No matter how far down it goes it will still have that curve and therefore have the shackle at the wrong angle to go back the right way and not just against the chassis.
In this case I think either the extra leaf's add too much curve for this vehicle, or I need something to stop the shackle coming back the wrong way. Maybe the leaf's from a falcon are flatter but harder and thats why they make a good addition to the set. This one's very curved hence the problem

Took these photo's of the leaf and then when in the set, the original leaf's when in the car sit fairly flat, not inverted, but not much curve in them.

Hi Linds, the outcome was I sent the kit back, it WAS the wrong one.
Took it into West Coast Suspension. they added an extra leaf each side (would ahve been 2 but LPG is out for the moment - shortage of donut tanks apparently). I kept the Rancho shocks (9000 series for the extra travel) the ride is excellent, really really happy with that. the lift isn't dramatic, and they wound the torsion up a bit but I can't see any rid difference there (tell me, are your wishbones at the front about horizontal when the car's sitting, or do they have some downward curve in them?) I'm hoping there is a little more winding I can do to the front.

They only charged me $70 for 2 leaf's (custom made). they didn't recurve the current ones, said they were fine (fitting was about $150 - 2 hours labour). worked out about $50 more than the kit I sent away for and all that grief I got. Luckily the good blokes at 4wd1 refunded me for the kit. They really did the right thing for me and I hold no grudge with them for the service (though the kit itself was the wrong one).

About 30mm higher at the back now, it did make a difference out on the powerline track this weekend.

Just a quick note.
I finished winding up the torsion bars, got a good bit of lift out of them without affecting the camber. I was right, the guy who was supposed to do it didn't. Just undid the locknuts and forgot to wind up the bars. I also found out another way to get a slight lift, another 20mm approx (it all helps) thats to fit a set of larger tyres. It comes standard with 265/70R15's on it. You can put Coopers or BFG's on it in the size (I think) 31/10/50R15 not 100% sure about that figure, but the next safe, legal size was slightly fatter and taller. I'm going for the Coopers as they guarantee the mileage. They have 1 less side layer but the side layers in the BFG are thinner (quoting the guy who sells both). The coopers are new in an ATR format which is the AT but with a better tread that gives all the AT had off road with more on-road friendliness (apparently).

Just fyi Lind.