Jaycar 12v/12amp charger recalled

Told you so :)

They put about 120V AC across the battery neg. lead and the case (earth) of the charger. It (usually :) won't kill you but it does provide a bit of a tickle.

Poor design of the switch mode is the problem - shame, damn good charger - they can't have mine back though :)

Mike Harding

mike_harding@fastmail.fm

Gday Mike
I'm happy with it too for the price. Have used it on my boat and 4wd and wont be giving it back.
Now the dumb question... apart from not touching the case and neg at same time; when using it to charge a battery, do I need to make sure unit is not touching anything possibly connected to neg battery terminal eg. resting it on the bullbar while it charges??
cheers
JohnN

To be on the safe side I would ensure the charger case is never connected to it's neg. lead. So don't put it on the bullbar without a thick rag or piece of wood etc. underneath.

To be on the safe side, take the bloody thing back.

Recalls arent just for the hell of it.

With zillions being spent on designing for safety all over the world every day, I reckon there should be wide support for it here. As I understand it, the main safety agenda for manufacturers is to design products to be safe for complete technical novices. If the novices follow the directions for safe use, they are entitled to complete safety while knowing nothing at all about the technicalities of the operation. Mike's view must be flawed, because it takes no account of others who may use his charger. If you can get a boot from freely accessible parts of that charger, its a dud..... Darian.......formerly Banjo (the first).....probably soon to be "sonny" also.....onya Roachie :-0)

i bought a 2-stage 10A switch-mode charger from SuperCheap on the weekend ($139). anybody have opinions as to whether they are any good or not?

Fuuny thing is, I see that these chargers are still on the Jaycar website, with no mention of a recall!

Mike Harding,
Your comments would be the stupidest comments I have ever read.

"Don't lecture me sonny. I've been designing this sort of stuff for over 30 years - I understand the risks."

Imagine this, You are standing in court at an inquest for the death of a child from one of these items. The magistrate has a copy of this thread and you are trying to explain why you advised everyone to use them because you know the risks even though the distributer has recalled them because of safety concerns.

Even worse what if it is your child or grandchild who is in the morgue.

Everyone, don't use them, take them back. Why has there been a safety recall? Because they are unsafe.
120v can be lethal.

from Marty.

Mike.

>Oh no not at all - you should see some of my other posts!
Good point.

>>you advised everyone to use them

>I did? Perhaps you would be good enough to quote where I did that?

Right here.
It's not a death trap and is going to sneak up on you in the night and kill you! There is just a bit of mains leakage to the switch mode ground - so don't touch the neg. lead when the thing is connected to the mains - you manage not to stick your hand in the engine fan when the bonnet is raised don't you?

>>Why has there been a safety recall?

>I can only guess the recall is associated with safety - perhaps you would share with us the further information you clearly have given your certainty in this regard?

Sorry I don’t have any further info. But I have heard that someone who should know better is telling people it is ok to use a device that has exposed 120v.

>>120v can be lethal.

>Where did you get that figure Marty? Or are you just quoting me?
No I am not just quoting you. Yes 120v can be lethal.

>Before you get your knickers in a twist any further Marty and hysterically turn a minor issue into one that is responsible for the deaths of millions and demonise me in the process perhaps you would take a look at thread 28956 on this site and, in particular, my post of the 18/12/05 where I highlighted the issue with these units and iirc I also raised concerns about them some weeks or months earlier.

Ok I will untwist my knickers. That feels better.
I still say you are not smart making these comments. Hope you never have to explain them in court.

Everyone else, don't use these chargers. Especially if any kids are around. This is advise from a tech with only 27 years experience, as opposed to Mike's 30 plus years.

from Marty.

So we are are talking about a second recall ? Mine seems to fuction OK,I'll take my chances I guess.
Regards Charlie

Mike -

I too have been involved in the HV game, electrical and electronics and as a qualified electrician and electronics tech (all my working life) like I assume you are.... I am sorry to see that some of your statements were possibly taken out of context.

I am just on 60 so I too can make statements about how long I have been doing what I do.

I am just disappointed in the vitriolic words being flung around the forum by all and sundry. Agro by forum etc ....

The point of the challenge I think was not your skills or integrety but the fact that there are many people who read the forum both members and non members who are not skilled in making a judgement like you or I can.

Those that challenged your statements have done it with the right intentions.

May I suggest that rather than "adults can decide" if they want to keep the device, suggest returning it for refund or repair. That way unskilled people are not led to believe that if a few people say it is not a problem then "I should be OK as well".

What you or I do is our best call but for most it could be a real issue.

Keep up the good info like this - it is always valuable to know about problems with equipment that we all use in our search for the perfect oasis....

hi can i ask why u need the charger when the EUI has on built in or am i missing something

doesnt the EU10 have battery charger built in why do you need this ??

Folks,

A little bit of friendly advice. Take notice of what Roachie has stated.
Your life is worth more than the price of a piece of electrical crap.

It is not necessarily the voltage level that kills.

One of the first things I learnt at Trade School 35 years ago, is that it is the electrical CURRENT that kills you, not the voltage that it is flowing at.

As little as 10mA will create a "can't let go situation as your muscles contract.
As little as 100mA can cause your heart to go into Ventricular fibrillation and this kills you stone dead.

It isn't the voltage which kills.
It isn't the current which kills.
It is the _power_ which kills and power is the product of voltage and current (voltage x current).

This is why you can touch your car's HT ignition system which is at about 25,000 volts and it won't kill you because it's current capability is very low. Equally it's why you can touch your car's battery which has a current capability of a few thousand amps but a very low voltage.

Now: try touching a supply of 25,000 volts with a current capability of a few thousand amps and see what happens?

Mike Harding

PS. Modern electronic ignition systems have a higher energy capability than the old "points" type so it's probably not a good idea to touch them.

Getting back to the original question this battery charger was quickly withdrawn from sale after it's first release and now the second release is supposidly withdrawn as well. I would guess thousands are out there having been sold though Jaycar and Bias Boating wouldn't we expect some type of media release if there is a real problem?
Regards Charlie

For what it's worth....

Just spoke with a Jaycar Tech and he said the problem was that after charging a battery, the capacitor retains some charge and so if you touch the terminals you will get a "tingle".... which he claimed you would notice but not harmfull.

If you are tech minded you can mod the charger to discharge this or you can disconnect the clips from the battery without touching the metal and the capacitor will discharge itself over a short time.

This is as advised by an anonymous tech on the other end of the phone. I'm not recommending you do or dont act on this advise...etc etc yada yada. I'm satisfied... weigh it up for yourself!!!

cheers
JohnN

Copy of email sent to Jaycar today!

Subject: MB3612 Battery Charger Recall??

Sir/Madam,

I am extremely anxious to know what is happening in regard to the recall of the subject product, linked below:

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MB3612&CATID=18&keywords=&SPECIAL=&form=CAT&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=295

I am led to believe that these have been subject to a "wholesale recall" but not a general end user recall, WHY NOT?
These chargers have a known problem which I believe is a current leakage between the negative lead & the case of the unit.

This could be a very serious problem with severe ramifications if it continues to be ignored, not only in the obvious case of personal injury or death, but as many of these units would have no doubt been fitted to permanently moored boats, they WILL cause considerable damage to steel vessels & will also cause extreme degradation of the sacrificial anodes on all permanently moored vessels.

I have one these chargers permanently fitted to a camper trailer & have in fact received a minor "tingle", which at the time, in my ignorance, I put down to damp atmospheric conditions.
Do these chargers meet all relevant Australian Safety Standards & are they so certified? If so could you please supply the relevant details.
Please advise by return email what Jaycar will be doing to assist the purchasers of these faulty & potentially dangerous battery chargers.

Regards,

Paul *******