Help me understand 3litre GU hand grenades

Hell Vox...... doesn't it give us a sense of value for thoroughly researched design in the modern motor - they are generally so damned complex with their high power, low consumption and low emissions - unless they test and evaluate the whole bloody lot carefully as a complete unit in the design stage, we suckers find out the hardway later ......... its a gamble....nearly bought one myself ....... took the Jack instead..... better motor at least it turns out......in a car that nobody wants to sell here anymore !

My understanding of it, is that it all happens fairly quickly and without any prior warning. That means you're driving along with no obvious differences and then BANG!

In Pud's case (see my recent post from about an hour ago), he said he'd been driving with a large trailer carting his furniture from Yass to Goulburn. He was on his way back to yass with empty trailer and they saw another Patrol blowing lots of smoke (not sure what type of Patrol it was). He commented to someone on the UHF...."Geez I hope mine is blowing smoke like that"....answer come back : "No mate, yours hasn't got any smoke".......Well Murphy struck within several seconds after that ...... BUGGAR!!!

Hi Voxson,

I don't want to start a huge debate on the Nissan 3.0litre TD but as an observation there have been 3 posts on ExplorOz this year for blown engines.

Post 29790 17/1/2006 Pud & Barb 2000 Series II
Post 29720 15/1/2006 Jorgejhandel 07-07/2003 Model
Post 29396 5/1/2006 ACDC 2001 Model, 170,000km's

That's at least 3 in 12 days on a site that has 1,055 members and I'm not sure how many visitors!!!!!

I had been looking at a Patrol as a potential vehicle for myself but I'm staying clear of the 3.0 Litre. It's seems to be a risky option.

regards,

Browser

More to it.

I dont remember the exact problem , cause I'm not a mechanic , but , it was something like , not enough oil capacity , number 4 piston wasn't getting enough lub , galleries to small ?? , and number 4 piston going by byes.

Oil capacity was increased , large oil galleries and different designed piston.

The maximum boost is controlled by the actuator Voxson. When the pressure gets to a certain point it allows the exhaust gas to bypass the turbo to keep to the set pressure - on my TD4.2I it is just over 10 psi or about 0.7 bar. If the actuator fails you may have it stick open/open too early or I guess closed.

I am not sure if that diagnosis sounds correct for a sudden increase in boost, but it makes me even happier to have a boost gauge fitted. Further to that a friend calling this afternoon told me how he had the pipe between the turbo and the intercooler come undone recently to have another fitted up again in Berri SA. The boost gauge would have shown that immediatly reather that drive without an aircleaner for a while.... :-( Dealer problem in Melbourne one would think

The problem is defined like this

Piston failure due to overheating

Possible root cause= poor bottom end lube- fixed now

Engines still failing but not as many in newr Patrols

Possible root cause= overfueling

Sticking more diesel into an engine (richer mix) creates much more heat and hence could be the reason for the failures.

Other possible causes = turbo overboost due to actuator problems

Thats the way I see it, but of cause it is a complicated problem distilled to a few simple answers- I could be dead wrong.

My cousin is workshop controller at a Nissan dealer in Sydney, He told me that Nissan Head Office would replace the "Block" complete in the event of a failure to 3ltr motors. Heads and turbo's would be checked and fixed if applicable, So you get a new block with your old top end if it can be used. They will NOT replace complete motors. They do this to save costs on the workshops rebuilding the old motor (if it could be saved). Remember guys, the dealer bills Nissan for their labour costs to do any warranty work, so its much quicker to do an "R & R" (remove and replace) than to fork out hours of labour costs to the dealers for each engine failure rebuild.
He also told me that Nissan has tightened up on warranty claims, especially on early series 1 and 2's, he pointed out that service history will decide weather or not Nissan come to the party. So basically that means.... if you skipped a service or 2, your on your own. In my opinion, that is a fair call even though they now the engines are faulty, after all, its in their servicing and parts where they make their money, not in selling the cars.

Ange

I still cannot understand why Nissan did not do a recall like they did in the UK. We have no reported failures of the ZD30 engine. It might have caused Nissan work and time at the start but the problem is now gone and their reputation intact.

As for the reported 2003 model, it looks more like a issue with the last service. Rightly so we assume it must be the piston failure, but we should not forget engines do fail for other reasons. Looking on all the forums i have yet to see ONE single 2003 onwards patrol fail, and i mean first hand not a mate of mates little brother 2003 blew up. Hands up who has a 2003 + patrol which has blew up with the same problem as the older models. I am not saying they might not blow up as they could still be too new, but looking back on the early 2000 failures they had been reported in large numbers by the time the car was 3 years old, so where are all the 2003 failures?

Yes i think Nissan made a big mistake keeping the early 3.0l on the road but its done now. Unfortunately for the people who own the early patrol it is almost certain it will blow up. But until i hear of firsthand reports of new models failing i think we should stop comparing the new models with the old.

Hi Voxson,
Didn't have time earlier to throw my 2.2 cents worth into the conversation, here goes my slant.
The notion of sensors and CPU's is what I do for a living. My stuff is embedded systems software for industrial control.
Different applications but fundamentally the same idea, pull some sensors into the controller, make some decisions and drive some outputs. Whilst keeping the whole show on the rails and away from damage.

My take on the idea of the MAF Sensor being the root cause of the blowups is this,

The MAF Sensor (MAFS) feeds into the Engine Management (EM). The EM controls boost, injection duration and injection timing among other things.

If the MAFS was the root cause it would be very easy to fix with about 6 lines of code and a sub-routine in the EM. A significantly cheaper solution than a mass engine swap out aka, Europe. Basically swap out the EM in about 30 minutes at a cost price to Nissan of definitely less than $100.00 per unit.

In software speak you'd do something like the following,

if MAF Sensor == good then
go for it;
if MAF Sensor == bad then
run get home sub-routine and record error code;

get home sub-routine:
minimum boost;
fixed injection duration;
fixed injection timing;

Basically you'd restrict the engine to enough boost, fuel and power to drag its empty carcase home.

For me, if it was the MAF Sensor causing the failures fixing it forever in every 3.0L shouldn't involve an engine transplant.

Hope that makes sense,

Geoff.

Voxson,

I'm surprised you're asking a question like this after buying a new vehicle! Are you not happy with the purchase? I notcied you were advertising your dtronic. Were you not happy with the performance?

Leroy

Well Leroy...
I spose its like this....
I thought all the blowing up stuff was behind the 03 model then i start hearing about later ones going...
So i am going to probably fit a boost gauge for safety reasons...

What i have noticed with the 3litre is that it is absolutely CRAP for rock climbing because of its low down LACK of torque...
I was spoilt with the 4.2 i had previous....
The 3 litre with a manual is useless for extreme terrain...
It cant climb steep rocks without serious clutch punishment..

No neither do I as I am very impressed with my Nav...that said however, I don't indulge in rock climbing activities so not fair to compare eh.