look what can happen when you forget to pay for your bacon and eggs

Sounds like the owner of the business where you ate is a relative of the local Police Superintendent.

You're in deep muck russ.

Unbelieveable how they can make their resources react quickly to a low level incident when they want to.

Mate ya do the crime you have to do what the Law says.

And if they want you in a court in Central Queensland then thats where you have to be.
You will probably be found not guilty. But if you look at it from the complainents side why should they have to travel to your town to go to court when it was your mistake.

Regards
japmel

Did this in the UK once at a burger joint, yes it's easy to do, I quickly remembered and went back.

I think the problem they will have is "when you did remember (as they assume normally happens) why didn't you return to rectify the situation".

I can empathise with you as I nearly do it every time I'm at the local 'Coffee Club'.

In the wash out with your clean record and 'the benefit of the doubt' you will prob end up with a legal bill and costs plus whatever????

What a PITA.

Did you take off in a hurry or did you casually and slowly drive off like an innocent person would. Perhaps they serve bacon and eggs in the lock up then you will get them for nothing.
Tell them your 14yo ethnically challenged kid made you do it.
Sorry about my bad taste attempt at humour but years from now you might see the funny side of it.

Hi Russ ,
I have done this and many of my friends have too . It is absurd that you were charged . The cop must have been a real pig . He could have escorted you back to the restaurant where you could have apologised and paid them , but no , he wants to be an absolute turd .
Good luck ,
You will get off , but it will be very inconvenient for you .
Cheers ,
Willie .

Russ, I cannot offer advice.

One thing I can do though, is try to at least put a smile on your face....

Have a look at the RELATED KEYWORD MATCH....

"DRIVING SKILLS!!!"

Now, how cool is that?

Wolfie

Russ and everyone else,

can you imagine if the Police took the word of everyone that stole something and let them off? Russ, I believe you, but intention need not necessarily be a purposeful act to deprive, it can also be negligance. I would imagine the place you bought the B&E from probably has heaps of driveoffs and gets jack of it all. You have effectively stolen, and it would be like walking out of a supermarket with something in your hand and saying ' I forgot I had it'

Having said that, I reckon you will be found guilty if you choose to dispute the matter, but most probably without conviction (no criminal record) being your first offence, and a smallish fine/costs.

I can't believe the cop actually booked you for this.

A few years back here in W.A. I was eating at a local 24 hour place and a guy did a runner without paying for his meal.

The lady behind the counter screamed at him to stop and I legged it after him and crash tackled him about 100 meters down the road, dragged him back. The lady called the cops they arrived and on the side told her that all they could do was try and frighten him in to paying but if he refused they really was nothing they could do as it was classed as a civil offense as a meal is a service and not goods so therefore could not be "stolen" only "not payed for" don't know if this is still the case or if different states look at it as stealing but certainly something to ask a professional.

LOL I got free deserts for 6 months after that.

You have yourself to blame.

Go to court, plead guilty to an honest mistake and wear the consequences.

Most likely the magistrate will see your point of view.

Take your references with you. They might help.

g'day russ
tell the beak it was the worst feed you ever had and you left most of it in the chit house,you was that crook you forget to pay for it,might work.
cheers toohey.

Russ, you need Legal advice. It should never have gone that far, but as others have said thats the law (and yes it's an ass but its the only one we have).
Years ago I forgot to pay for fuel. I just ambled off and in my zombie had no sleep for a week and forgot about it. Now I'd bought thousands of $ of fuel from that place. They knew me, had my number plates, (could have gotten my number easily) and could of just rung me. Heck, they could of waited 2 days until I bought more fuel. Nope, standing orders was to report to the police, who appeared at my door at 2 am. Luckily they realized that it was a genuine case. But I always make sure that I've paid for fuel now.

Seriously Russ,

Spend a small amount of dough and get GENUINE legal advice. Most legal firms these days will do $20 for 20 minutes; some even do a first consultation free.

Flick through your Yellow Pages and make a few calls.

Asking legal questions here will only get you the opinions of travellers.

It's a bit like asking your Dentist how to stop your roof leaking.

Cheers,

Jim.

Only you know the truth russ...and if you plead not guilty, the rest will be presented to the court in the form of evidence from witnesses (if there are any)

What a lawyer will tell you is that the prosecution have to prove you stole the meal 'intentionally'...that is that you formed a deliberate thought to walk out without paying and that is was not an honest mistake.

The prosecution must prove their case 'beyond reasonable doubt' that is the test based on the facts presented. The judge can't make a guilty finding if he 'thinks' you did it, he must believe beyond all reasonable doubt that you formed the intent and carried out the act.

Why would you contemplate pleading guilty to something if you didn't do it? Go to court and have your day if that's what has to happen.

Based on the facts as you portray them, it seems an honest mistake. And you obviously would have admitted that to the cops! yes?

Make sure you repay the shop owner if you haven't already, before your court day.

But then again, I am NOT a lawyer...seek appropriate advice. You'll be fine.

Russ,

Bad luck mate- BUT you did not pay attention as well as the bill. I was just a little over Officer - booked .... I totally forgot the speed limit officer - booked. I totally forgot I had one too many - booked....ra rar rar .....

I know it can happen as it did to me (similar thing) and my son is a copper. So Russ take it on the chin and move on. It will cost you a bloody sight more to contest it than the cost of the meal and the fine (probably small if you plead guilty - well you did do it but unintentionally).

Guy's Iv'e heard it all before...do the crime do the time. Personal attacks don't wash....

By the way it's not criminal only a misdemeanour....

Oh! why do I bother .....

Not wasting any more time on this.......

Russ36,

Like the rest of the guys here I am not a lawyer but you had better seek some professional advice.

Think hard about exactly what you did when you left until Officer Plod swooped to save the planet. Your actions and demeanour from when you left the eatery until you finally left the police station MAY help your case.

Good luck

A friend of mine was in K-Mart & picked up a some drill bits, he then went to get something else that was big & on a high shelf, he put the 2 drill bits in the top pocket of his overalls while he got the object down, he then went on to buy a few groceries, as at that time the K-Mart was joined to Coles New World, he totally forgot about the drills, was apprehended by store security & charged.
He went to court, told them he had absolutely no intention of stealing the drill bits, was found guilty & fined $700. The magistrate said it was to be a lesson to him for showing no remorse.

He walked off, you drove off!

b4 i hit the sack, it would be nice to forget this garbage and remember that on the trip i did meet some really nice people,found a pearler of a campsite with barra on the doorstep, had icy cold beer from my new fridge despite the intense xmas heat, didnt do a tyre, and my wolfhound cross never got eaten by a croc! cant wait to go to karumba again, maybe take the coastal route next time

Russ
When you realised what you had done (regardless of your opinion of the cop) did you go back and apologise and pay for the meal.

(When you go to court this could have a bearing on the outcome - do you think?)

Don’t knock the cop … he is not a law-court, just an intermediary between the complainant and the defendant. If he chooses to pull Russ up on the side of the road and then let him off the hook because he thinks he is innocent, he is leaving himself open to a charge of misconduct or worse still, professional corruption. His boss would want to know why the court was not left to decide the issue, after all the cop now has an interest in the case and his own evidence is up for scrutiny! Consider how it would look for him on evidence from a passer-by… stopped a suspect who answered the description, let him go, why? Bribery would be the conclusion.

Russ

From the legal point of view you are innocent until proven otherwise … and the case must be proven beyond reasonable doubt. You may find that under examination the complainant may admit to the possibility of your innocence based on your behavior and the case will fail.

Seek legal advice and put up an honest defence. Even if you pleaded guilty and stated the facts as you described an ethical magistrate would be obliged to reject your plea until you sought legal advice.

By the way I’m not a lawyer.

Russ, I'll take it on face value that you are an honest guy and this was a genuine mistake. If you think about it, you should be able to come up with some referees who can 'swear' to your honesty. An example; wife and I recently bought 2 u beaut camp chairs from a local camping store. When we got hoem with the 2 boxes, we found that one of the boxes had 2 chairs in it, so we had three, rather than the two we paid for. We returned the extra chair. Surprised the hell out of the store owner!

This type of thing happens a fair bit. If you can think of anything like that over the past couple of years, it is a tangible display of honesty, rather than a simple claim of honesty (which unfortunately everyone makes, regardless of the truth).

Anyway, if you are and honest guy, I hope you get off with something like paying the bill and a similar amount to charity. Although I don't think I've made this mistake, I've made plenty of others. If you are not an honest guy, well.............

Can't help with the problem Russ. My missus is a chef though and if you're ever down this way, feel free to drop in and pinch some breaky...

I did a drive off from a servo once. i got home and started sorting my payout (had just been paid) and realized I hadnt paid for the fuel. I tried ringing them but apparantly they were on the phone to the Coppers. I drove back to the servo (a fair way) explained and paid. They seemed happy enough it was just a mistake and i never heard from the cops

Get legal advice but did a similar this in Vic but dont plead guilty ( unless you are ) just get stat decks and caractor references and employ a solicitor to appear on your behalf as to be guilty you must fist knowingly committed a criminal offence and forgetting to is an excuss in this case and you should get let off with no conviction as i did but it did cost $380.
Good luck.

At least post them a cheque for the money. That way you have actually paid.

"Do the crime, do the time". Sounds like a parrot with a limited vocabulary.
Complex situations reduced to a single phrase so that even morons can understand it - the phrase must have originated in the USA.

In Victoria, I believe?, this would be an indictable crime and, if found guilty, would make you a Prohibited Person under the firearms act (which you may, or may not, care about) it would also be on your record for the rest of your life. So in five years a police check will return "Convicted of theft in 2006" - it won't say "forget to pay for his brekkie" so for all anyone knows you robbed an old lady of her pension, it just says you're a thief.

My advice is to get a barrister to defend you (one who lives near the town of your trial and you’ll have to go up to see him beforehand) - overall that will probably cost you around $2000 (expensive brekkie!). Make it _very_ clear to the barrister that if found guilty you will be appealing the decision – the reason will become clear below.

If you choose to defend yourself then, as others have said, get _every_ reference possible of your good character - the more the better, doctors, priests, lawyers etc are good if possible. Make it clear to the magistrate when you give evidence that you have no previous convictions for anything and have never been in trouble with the police, unless you have - in which case keep quiet about it :) (he won't know anything about your criminal, or lack of, history at that stage and the police are not going to tell him you have a clean slate - so ensure you do).

When you initially attend court on the day you should see the Clerk of the Court (you'll probably need to report your presence to him anyway) and ask him what the procedure is (in the very unlikely event you're found guilty :) for you to lodge an appeal to a higher court. Make it _very_ clear that you will be appealing if necessary. They probably don't get too many appeals coming out of country Qld for minor offences. That info. will, most likely, find it's way back to the magistrate before your hearing. That knowledge may help him to "concentrate" on your case. Magistrates don't like being appealed - it calls their supposed omnipotence into question and puts their judgment on trial. And, of course, in the event of an acquittal there won't be an appeal.

Remember: we don't have a justice system - we have a legal system and largely, in this country, you get the justice you can afford.

Good luck.

Mike Harding

You would think a copper would have the experience to tell whether a person was lying or not. And if the person appeared genuine, then apply some common sense; such as asking the person to return to the place, pay the cost of the meal and apologise. However having seen what some police can be like, if they have it in for you then your in trouble.

Too late now, but after the copper pulled you up, I would have immediately returned to the place, paid the bill and apologised.

Seek legal advice.

guys , after a bloody long drive, and already a long way from the cafe, and aware that police officers in country towns often drive to each others towns ,i tried to hand him the money

I hope you don't tell the judge that one........ and $23 for bacon and eggs?
maybe there was a bit more than just your breakfast.......hmmmm

Doesn't look good mate

Reiner

I guess you didn't forget that you had a full belly of beautiful bacon and eggs - really tell another yarn mate!.

Russ,

Can imagine how your feeling and note your not howling down the owner or the police, shows maturity and remorse.

Though with family and many friends in business I can tell you it's a daily occurance- I forgot to pay, didn't remember I put that in my pocket/bag, it just fell off the shelf, etc, etc, etc. I guess they are just sick of it like anyone would be. I gather from one of your responces that you've been in the same boat with not being paid for a job. It can be damn hard to pick a simple mistake from an experienced street wise theif and I'm not saying your the latter. Just saying I can understand were the owner and cop is coming from.

Hope it pans out well for you and all involved. No doubt it will leave a bad taste in your mouth for some time to come but remember it will also for the shop keeper. Unless you have already done so I'd be writting a long appology and include a cheque for the meal. Most people are fair and having the shop keeper on your side as well or at least understanding the situation maybe very important.

Good luck.

Mate, why don't you work out the address of the place, write them a letter, include a cheque (so you know they got it and cashed it) with the amount you owe and a nice apology.

If it goes to court the person you wronged is going to be inconvenienced again, maybe they would even drop the charges? I don't know how it works here, if the person against whom the crime is committed doesn't wish to press charges, do the police generally continue the procedings?

Regardless, it would go a long way to making up for the mistake.
Might even have a good bearing on the outcome if it does go to court.

If you do end up in court, it reackon it would be good if you did mention that you attempted on multiple occasions to make reparations.

That they waste the courts time with such petty matters instead of dealing with it with a bit of intelligence at the roadside is bit pathetic IMO.

Russ - the bottom line here is that you will be out of pocket whatever way you go. Don't get the law and your moral indignation confused...the fact as I see it from your initial post is that you didn't pay....that you forgot in the eyes of the law is immaterial. A lawyer will cost you about $1500 for a day in court and while I haven't seen the statement of facts I would suggest that he/she will advise a guilty plea and then plead mitigation. If you have no priors you will almost certainly cop a section 10 ...no conviction recorded, pay for the meal and $50 (approx) court costs. On the other had you seem farily articulate so why not go to court and argue your own case. Country magistrates are usually fairly genuine people and are always willing to give a punter a fair go.

I know nothing about the law and do not wish to speculate on the rights or wrongs of any of it.

However it strikes me that you have nothing to lose and everything to gain from sending a brief letter of genuine apology (no elaboration, justification or pleading) together with $ to cover the bill.

I would send a $50 money order "to cover the account and any extras occasioned by my forgetfulness."

I would write it on a card rather than on note paper.

If the owner goes ahead anyhow I would be represented in Court and I would be likely to appeal.

I believe that the odds are against anyone who is not represented. Get a written quote from your proposed legal rep before you commit to him/her and ask also about further steps if required.

Wonder if ya get bacon and eggs in jail?

Russ. I hate to tack my comments onto the bottom of such an exhaustive and exhausting thread, and in such a public forum, but I am a lawyer. I'm prepared to spend my lunchtime giving you some free advice- worth exactly what you will have paid for it.
First, you'll know I'm a lawyer because I'm about to put in a whole swag of disclaimers.
I don't practice in criminal law, so I'm not an expert in the field. Second, when I studied crim. it was in Victoria, so I only learnt about offences under the Victorian Crimes Act, not any Queensland legislation that may be relevant to your issue. Plus this was over 20 years ago. Things change. Third, you have not given enough specifics of what you have been charged with- is it theft, obtaining property by deception, something else? so even if I was qualified in the right area of practice, you haven't given enough info to give a proper opinion. However, I have been involved in a few matters over the years, generally when friend's brothers do something stupid late at night. Not that I handle the matters, but I have referred them on to the right person.
My advice is that unless you are prepared to wear a conviction, you should as you have said get advice from one of my blood sucking colleagues. (Funny how people are less scathing about us lawyers when they are actually in trouble and need help). To save cost, you might want to talk to someone based close to where the court is, (a local lawyer) even though that's less convenient for you. A lawyer would charge for travel time and expenses, plus there might be an advantage in engaging someone who might be known to the magistrate. The magistrate might be more sympathetic if he or she sees that you are taking the matter seriously and have a home-town boy on your side. Sometimes they are not impressed by hot-shots from the big smoke telling them the law.
It's going to be an expensive breakfast, but I would think it might cost more than a few hundreds of dollars for representation, but you should be able to get a rough idea from a lawyer before you engage him or her. Also another advantage of using a local awyer is that rural lawyers tend to charge less, as they have less overheads and are less greedy than us city dwellers. They have a good lifestyle and breathe clean air, so they are less compelled to need to charge big bucks. Bearing in mind the cost issue though, having a conviction for an offence involving dishonesty can affect your future much worse than other types of offences. Future employers, for example, might not be too worried about speeding fines, but a conviction of theft, or some similar dishonest offence can stuff you up. There is significant peril in representing yourself. With respect, I am a lawyer and wouldn't represent myself in such a matter, for the reasons outlined in my disclaimers. I'M NO EXPERT, but that's what in my opinion you need.
You can consult the Qld Law Society for a referral if you like. You shouldn't need to brief a barrister- a solicitor should handle these types of cases.
A local lawyer may be able to negotiate better with the prosecuting policeman. In my limited experience of criminal matters I've seen charged dropped after such discussions. I don't think you would be able to conduct such a negotiation though! Do it through a lawyer. The policeman won't want to know you.
As to the offence itself, generally, and I mean generally, the prosecution must prove that there was an intention not to pay when the property passed to you. Without the mental element (the mens rea as criminal lawyers refer to it) the offence is not proven, even though the physical element (the obtaining of the breakfast) clearly was present. I would be very surprised if there was a theft related offence in Queensland where the offence is proven without the necessary mental element, unlike speeding, where it doesn't matter what you are thinking, if you are driving over the limit, the offence is committed. Then again, stranger things happen in Queensland. So in my uninformed opinion, from what you have said, you should probably be OK, but only if you take the appropriate steps to defend yourself. Much of that comes down to your credibility as a witness. Again, getting proper representation, you will be advised on what character references, whether you need to give evidence, etc.

One other thing, act quickly. Despite all the delays in the legal system, delays by the accused are never looked upon favourably. Plus I expect you'll want to get this matter concluded swiftly so you can sleep better at night.

There, for what it's worth, is my advice. As I said, worth exactly what you've paid for it. Good luck.
MikeyS

Russ36,

You could always tell us who the cafe was and where they were. I'm sure someone will drop in and say, "are you the ones that had a guy arrested for forgetting to pay $23 for a meal?"

The notoriety may influence them.

On the other hand, the police require confirmation that the cafe owner wanted you to be charged before they go ahead with it. They had time to get your number plate, surely they noticed before this that you were leaving and made no attempt to question you. May help,

SWMBO drove off without paying for petrol from a small country town several years ago, went to toilet and completely forgot to pay. She had a phone call the next day with the offer to make restitution - which of course she did very appologetically. Owner of petrol station and SWMBO had a laugh about it.

Surely the payment for the meal will be worth more to the owner than having to spend a day in court

Regards

Rolande

i'm not about to try to make any trouble for her, and will never name her here, she deserves a fair go in court just as i do. its just so wrong to be inconvenienced to this level, and with the expensive possibilities... i have already sent her character refs , and tried to offer her the 23 dollars

i think that sux russ but you will have to see what the judge things.
hopefully hes in a good mood after a good feed of bacon and eggs for brekky
and lets hope next time we read from you your name hasnt changed from russ36
to russ prison number 36.

Lets look at the offence that has been committed. It is found under the Regulatory offences Act 1985, section 6(1)(a).

While it may have been an honest mistake all the prosecution has to prove the offence beyond a reasonable doubt.

And if all the elements to the offence can be proven, you will be found guilty, legal representation or not.

I have cut and pasted to offence from the Act for you. Or you can find it at, www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/R/RegulatOffA85.pdf

Section 6 Leaving hotel etc. without payment

(1) Any person who, with respect to food, drink, accommodation,
or like goods and services, of the value of $150 or less
obtained from any restaurant or hotel, motel, boarding house
or like premises—

(a) leaves such premises without discharging, or attempting
honestly, or making proper arrangements, to discharge,
his or her lawful indebtedness therefor

is guilty of a regulatory offence and, subject to section 9, is
liable to a fine of $300.

Lets break it down into elements that the prosecution will be required to prove.

1. Any person who:

russ36

2. with respect to food, drink, accommodation, or like goods and services:

bacon and egg breakfast

3. of the value of $150 or less:

$23

4. obtained from any restaurant or hotel, motel, boarding house
or like premises.

Shop where brekky was obtained

5. leaves such premises without discharging, or attempting honestly, or making proper arrangements, to discharge, his or her lawful indebtedness therefor

you left the premisis without paying your debt, You left the premisis without attempting to honestly pay your debt (e.g credit card declined etc), You did not make arrangements to pay your debt.

Mate you can try your luck in court and have to pay a lawyer, have to travel back to court, loss a couple of days work to go to court and then risk the chance that you will be found guilty. You will then have to pay court costs, a fine and pay restitution.

Its up to you, but unless you require a clean criminal record (I'm guessing that you would not get a conviction recorded anyway) for work purposes etc I would be picking the cheaper option and cop it on the chin and learn from the mistake.

The thing that AMAZES me is that being after working in the security industry for a number of year (specializing in digital video surveillance) I have seen many, many many crimes take place. I have seen people KNOWN to the police get away over and over and over again with THOUSANDS of dollars of goods and wilful damage and they don't seem to give a rats ass because they are too busy holding speed guns on the side of the road, and then for you to be fingerprinted, charged and treated like a ciminal for somthing as stupid as this is beyond my comprehension. And I don't care what all the doo gooders will say about it being a crime and what about the poor business owner and yarda yarda yarda, it's a drop in the ocean when you look at reality and some of the REAL crimes that are happening every minute of the day. Hell my best mates car got totally written off while it was parked out the front of our house one saturday night by what we can only assume was a stolen car while we were all asleep and the cops diddn't even want to know about it, in fact they wouldn't even come out to look at it, they said to call your insurance company and come to the police station at make a traffice accident report. The ironic thing was how were we supposed to come to the police station, there was a mangled car and bit's of it spewed all over the yard and up and down the street blocking us from getting any other vehicles out!!

Russ - Youv'e had your Bacon and Eggs so how about a bit of HUMBLE PIE now Eh!

LOLOLOL :))))

When you get into court plead Alzihmers [oops forgotten how to spell] and blame it on that the bacon/eggs were cooked on alloy /alumininum that is proven to be the no 2 cause of forgetting ,,no 1 is ,forgot ,,umm think its beer. lol.

$23 for bacon and eggs.
what did you get a pig and a chicken?

It is my solemn duty to inform you to ignore all the previous advice given to you on this forum.

This what you must do:

Tell the Magistrate you come from a broken home.
Tell the Magistrate you have a drug problem
Tell the Magistrate you never intended to pay for the meal as you'd spent all your stolen cash on spray paint for graffiti.
Tell the Magistrate the car you were driving was nicked from an aged pensioner.
Tell the Magistrate you were picked on at school by other students and all the teachers.
Tell the Magistrate your step Father was mean to you.
This has worked for many other people in the Queensland justice system.
Whatever happens :
DON"T tell him you have a clean record, a job, a family, pay tax, can write, read and know the difference between right and wrong.
If you do your in deep, deep deep trouble.

Only kidding!

You will be right.

I'm sick of the police they can pull there finger out to pick up a guy for not paying for his meal but my 8000 dollar motorbike gets stolen and it takes them 2 days to come and talk to me I'm over the police normal story though its a few bad cops I'm sure that ruin it for all of us grrrr sorry guys had to vent that

Good Luck Russ

I have just read PostID: 30118 regarding us "newbies" apparently wasting you more experienced site users time, by asking repeat questions.......and yet here you are 43 replies later still discussing if some one who leaves premises with out paying their bill........... is guilty or not.

just a bump on this abck to the top with the Wont Pay For Fuel thread

Russ, how did you go, have you been to court yet???
if not, good luck, I would like a dollar for everytime I have left somewhere & not paid only to realise a few K's later (once 120) turned around went back & paid, I was just lucky I remembered before the cops nabbed me....