Police call for more road cameras

Submitted: Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 01:38
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Police call for more road cameras

VICTORIAN drivers could be hit with more speed cameras under tougher measures being considered by the State Government, after a plea by the state's top traffic policeman to end the carnage on the roads.

Assistant Commissioner Noel Ashby said stricter measures were needed to prevent "a jumbo jet full" of people losing their lives each year.

Mr Ashby said it was a dismal fact that people aged 16 to 25 were not heeding the road safety message, with many believing they were "invincible". "Drivers might hate the cameras but the fact is it's one of the initiatives which have seen the annual road toll drop to the mid-300s from more than 700 a year in the early 1990s," Mr Ashby said.

Evidence from Victoria's newest speed cameras, on the Melbourne-Geelong road, paints an alarming picture of the scale of the problem.

During a test period of just one week at the beginning of last month, 577 drivers were caught travelling at more than 25 km/h over the limit, including one car doing 207 km/h.

Twenty-eight people have been killed on Victoria's roads so far this year. The latest fatalities yesterday were an 81-year-old woman in a two-car collision at Tatura and a 22-year-old motorcyclist who hit a tree in Werribee.

Mr Ashby said increasing speed camera numbers was not about revenue-raising but helping to reduce the road toll.

"There's no doubt fatalities have dropped by a significant amount each year as a consequence of cars slowing down because of speed cameras.

"The challenge we face now is where do we go from here, because the fact is a jumbo jet full of people are still dying on our roads every year.

"We've got to think about the future of cameras. We have to plan ahead for the new freeways such as EastLink — the Mitcham-Frankston tollway opens in 2008 — and we also need to discuss the broader utilisation of mobile cameras."

Mr Ashby refused to reveal how many cameras were operating in Victoria. "We don't want people to think we have less than we actually have. I don't want to sound like a wet blanket, but I'd be happy if people thought there was a camera on every arterial road all the time."

The speed camera issue was raised last week during the bi-monthly meeting of key government and transport figures, including Transport Minister Peter Batchelor, Police Minister Tim Holding, TAC Minister John Lenders, and the heads of both the TAC and VicRoads, who form part of a subcommittee of state cabinet set up to investigate ways to improve road safety.

"It is a meeting that determines the best way forward to explore ways to reduce the road toll further, and the main issues included new technology (such as anti-skidding computer systems), anti-hoon legislation (to be introduced from July 1, giving police the power to seize cars), and enforcement. Do we expand traffic camera operations and in what way if we do?" Mr Ashby said.

RACV public policy general manager Ken Ogden said the organisation did not have a problem with speed cameras as long as they were not used as revenue-raisers.

"Our position is that cameras should be deployed at sites where there is a speed-related safety problem," he said.

"If they are put on sites where there is no speed problem, it gives the public the wrong impression that they are not about safety but revenue."

Mr Ashby said one of the most difficult road safety issues facing police today was trying to get the message across to young drivers about the dangers of speeding.

When asked about the case of a 19-year-old learner driver caught by police last month travelling at 175 km/h on the Mornington Peninsula Freeway at Mount Martha with a blood alcohol reading of 0.061, Mr Ashby said: "Did it amaze me? No. Is it disappointing? Yes. Is it sad for the community? Yes.

"There is unfortunately a very small percentage of the community who simply do what they want. They show a complete disregard for the safety of themselves and others. It is those type of people we really need to take off the roads for a long time."

The apprentice chef arrested by police said he was running late for work.

Of the 348 road deaths last year, 107 victims were aged between 16 and 25.

State Government spokesman Andrew Eales said there needed to be a balanced approach to the measures used to curb the road toll.

He said the State Government continued to take advice, including from Victoria Police, concerning the use of speed cameras, but that should not be seen as a panacea on the issue.

ON CAMERA

¦There are more than 2500 speed cameras in Victoria.

¦Nine fixed digital red light cameras and one combined speed-red light camera operate in Melbourne.

¦State Government revenue from speeding fines is expected to reach $324.2 million for 2005-06, up from $247.2 million the previous financial year.

¦There is a gradual roll-out of new, high-tech cameras at 78 locations across Victoria.

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Reply By: gramps - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 02:19

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 02:19
And what happened to the bleep chef and the brainless idiot doing 207km/h ? If they are'nt in gaol the system has failed. There is absolutely no excuse for either of them. Fines and suspensions are a total waste of time and effort in these situations.

My opinions only, of course.

p.s I hate revenue raising speed cameras, too :)))))
AnswerID: 153047

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 14:29

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 14:29
"If they are'nt in gaol the system has failed"

Since when has the system worked? Stopped workin when they stopped stringin em up.

Those pack rapists in bleep ney last week, they appealed cause something pathetic like the sun was out, and had their sentences reduced by something like 20 years! TWENTY YEAR REDUCTION....
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Follow Up By: gramps - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 22:08

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 22:08
hahahaha Truckie you've stirred up the natives again !!!

My comments below are related to what some of the posters have replied thus far:

Firstly, I've given up whinging about speed cameras. State governments, of all persuasions, rely on the revenue and would never countenance a reduction. It's only going to get worse so we may as well get used to living with it. The only possible changes may involve the relocation of certain cameras provided there is NO reduction in revenue LOL

Secondly, removing speed limits on open roads so that people can drive to their ability is almost laughable in this country. How would you define an open road? Before you reply please read on.

How many drivers have a realistic appreciation for their driving ability, especially at speed? Undoubtedly 95+% of the readers on this forum would put their hands up. That's OK, we KNOW they're all bull$hyters so we can discount them :))))))

Until there is some serious effort made to educate from school onwards we are stuck with what we've got.

So look out, fines suspensions, gaol terms and cameras are definitely going to increase.

So far I have'nt noticed anyone specifically defending the two mental defectives in your original post so I guess we have progressed somewhat.

Regards

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Follow Up By: gramps - Monday, Feb 06, 2006 at 00:40

Monday, Feb 06, 2006 at 00:40
Truckster,

Sorry left something out in my previous reply:

As for the 20yr reduction in sentencing of those animals, if anyone ever needed proof that the law is an ass .... The only reduction I'd consider fair is that they were taken out and hanged, fried or shot. Can someone seriously argue that they can be rehabilitated ?
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Reply By: Bodge - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 05:45

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 05:45
Here in the UK we have a rash of "cash cameras" across the country - they are run by "camera partnerships" which include the police and who keep any profits after costs - often to pay for more. There is legislation about where they can put them, they have to be bright yellow and their sites are listed - including locations that can legally be loaded into gps systems so that drivers have no excuse. There are also mobile units that not as easy to spot but again their locations are available on the web for most counties. Of course what tends to happen is that many people slam on the anchors as they approach the camera - often down well below the limit and then speed up again....

Interestingly recently the government has stopped all further spread of them as they have just realised that accident statistics have increased since their introduction whereas prior to that date they were decreasing, something that any competent statistician could (and some did) point out to them a long while ago but the police wouldn't have any of it.

I think our speeding rules are somewhat different too as they make allowance for the fact that construction rules for vehicles cannot realistically expect 100% accuracy of speedos (they are supposed to be within 10% accuracy but never under read the speed). They normally operate on not prosecuting unless you are doing 10% plus 2mph over the limit - attempts to be more draconian tend to be thrown out by the courts if the driver appeals.

AnswerID: 153048

Reply By: searay27 - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 07:39

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 07:39
Yes it would be a case of our lazy fat arsed pollies shying away from the truth that the roads cause over half the carnage and instead of improving the roads they think a camera is the answer. do 207km/p/h no one stops you and could still drive into someone as ticket takes a couple of weeks to get to you to late then.police need to be seen on the roads and stopping people including those doing under the limit by a certain amount they cause frustration as well. fix the roads and get more police out there. every holiday season you hear of police blitz but I never see them or any extras more than normal itsa scam they have families as well and will spend xmas day easter at home ,when will thay stop trying to bluff the public and stop treating us like idiots.
AnswerID: 153055

Reply By: guzzi - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 07:54

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 07:54
Hells teeth, we pay these cretins over a hundred grand a year and thats the only answer thay can come up with? Its time we had a paradeim shift.
I thought that the statistics over xmas proved speed cameras didnt work.
Vic with the most speed cameras managed to kill the most people, ergo the obvious answer is MORE speed cameras?????
At the opposite end NT with few if any speed cameras and NO speed limits outside built up areas, NO recorded deaths.
Yeah I know populations are very different.
All the state goverments need to wake up, speed is only 6% of the problem (by their own figures), the rest is Fatigue, Poor driveing and Poor skills, Bad decisions, Bad roads and on occasion just plain bad luck.
The lack of spacial awareness diplayed by most Vic drivers is amazeing, they spend most of their time looking at the speedo needle,not whats going on around them, Thats what happens when the goverment gives you 3kmh (one needle width)leeway before they steal several hundred dollars and 3 to 6 points from people.
If the goverment wants positive results, get rid of hidden cameras, stop hideing radars in bushes, put more highly visable police units on the roads,(oh but that costs money, not make money) put up bloody big signs before the speed traps. God knows the speed kills mantra hasnt worked, but arent they rolling in the cash.
Driver education in this country is a joke, you're taught to pass a test not drive, they should be starting driver education in schools from year 8 with practicle lessons from yr 10 . Fix the attitude early before it causes problems and teach people how to drive in all weathers and all road surfaces, teach the basis of road craft, defensive driveing and vechicle control.
Finally they can fund all of the above from the 324millon dollars they steal from the public each year.
AnswerID: 153062

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 08:11

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 08:11
You must be my long lost twin brother, I agree with every word.

I'm going to take a wild guess that you are a Pom who has migrated here within the last 10 years - yes or no? (If not I'll bet you have extensive other overseas background).

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/

Mike Harding

mike_harding@fastmail.fm
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FollowupID: 406935

Follow Up By: guzzi - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 08:37

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 08:37
Mike,
Nope not a pom, born and mainly bred aussie.
Have lived several years in both the USA and cold old England during my early school years.
I have however been driveing/rideing for 30 years, done about 600,000km on motorcycles and over 1.5 millon in cars & 4wd.
Rideing big bikes tends to focus your concentration on what you should be doing, staying alive, not eating , reading a novel (I kid you not, Ive seen this at 100km on the hume), gibbering or texting on the bloody mobile, or watching bloody DVD's.
Herin lies the crux of the problem, many ,not all thank god ,put driveing as the 4th or 5th priority of things to do while they have their ar$e in the drivers seat, it needs to be the FIRST and ONLY priority. Untill they can change peoples attitudes to all the above, driveing drunk/drugged/tried angry, all the bullsh1t ads, hidden speed cameras, double demerit everything and speed kills mantras wouldnt work.
Start the process early for the comming generation of drivers, it wont have a big effect on the current crop because as we all know "Im the best driver on 4 wheels all the reast of you are idiots" is a mind set thats already firmly in place and is unlikely to change in most of the population.
We can however do something about the roads, the latent safty of vechicles and driver education for the currently young.
my soap box is developeing a stress crack, time to go........
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Follow Up By: Member - Geoff M (Newcastle) - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 08:42

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 08:42
guzzi,
So well put it's scary.
Further to your proper driver education, I was recently told by someone from the RTA in NSW what a great competency based driver training system they had.
When I eventually got up off the floor I asked a question, the answer was interesting to say the least.
My question is, "in a true competency based training system there will be a percentage of the applicants who never reach the basic level. What percentage in NSW never get a licence?"
His answer, "Oh everyone eventually passes"
That I thought was extraordinary. I base this on working in heavy industry. You get to work with some lovely people that just cannot fathom the operation of machinery.
Yet they can have a licence to hurl 2 tonne of scrap metal at another 2 tonne of scrap with an approach speed of legally up to 220km/h.

I actually believe we should spend our first 12 months on the roads on a motorbike. Great way to learn spacial awareness, defencive driving, braking, road positioning and cornering.

The whole road safety message is clouded in political double talk,
Geoff.
Geoff,
Landcruiser HDJ78,
Grey hair is hereditary, you get it from children. Baldness is caused by watching the Wallabies.

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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 14:31

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 14:31
Wow dude, you get my vote, although wouldnt have a Guzzi if my life depended on it! ;)~
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Follow Up By: guzzi - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 16:52

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 16:52
truckster,
you realise that's the two wheeled equivelant of T vs N, which fridge is better ands landrover VS the world dont you.
Guzzi's eh had one 18 yrs 280,000km, the last 10yrs and 100,000km trouble free. Yeah theyre pathetic in the reliabiblity stakes arnt they, so how long did you say youve owned / ridden one??
You wouldnt be talking about a mate of a mate who heard one broke down etc etc etc......:))
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 21:07

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 21:07
You dont ride it very often do you? Did 56,000 in 2.5 yrs on my VFR which was my 33rd bike before I got wiped out.. Would have another VFR750 tomorrow.

All I said is I wouldnt have one if my life depended on it. They are ugly and dont suit my riding style, or what I do on a bike - simple as that.

But if you want to put it that way, Worked in the bike industry for years in the sutherland shire... I personally worked on a few (only 3-4), they viabrate to hell, sound like shiat, expensive as jesus for parts, and are as ugly as a hat full of bleep s...

U lost my vote.
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Reply By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 08:05

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 08:05
I think my thoughts have been pretty clear on this one in the past with the dishonesty of mounting them on the best roads in the country. The Geelong Road is a TOLLWAY.

Yes, I know I will draw "do the crime, pay the fine" people saying that. Of course they may be smoking chop chop or worse, the weed, or distilling their own spirit. Possibly even wanting to be paid cash instead of tax paid income - avoiding tax where they can.

The fines and our taxes are just beeing collected to pay the advertising telling us how good the state government is. How much was the latest campaign - $80 million was the estimate?

If only they spent serious money doing work upgrading roads, the death rates would be a long way lower. Signs "Trees close to road" just don't cut the mustard.
Cheers,
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John

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Reply By: D-Jack - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 09:40

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 09:40
Bring em on I say. Don't speed and it wont' affect you. I'd rather people who are breaking the law (speeding) contributing to the Governement instead of drawing more of my taxes.

As for the better roads comment, there is no such thing as a bad road. There is, however, such thing as a bad driver not driving according to the condition of the road. Take the Strezleki/Oodnadatta tracks for instance. People use them all the time, an most (sensible) drivers have no crashes because they drive according to the conditions.

I drive the Adelaide-Victor Harbor road in SA regularly, and can not for the life of me work out how someone (with a brain) could have an accident, apart from someone who was drunk, sleeping or brain dead. And a better road won't help those people avoid crashes. I think we need to work on attitues of drivers, and penalties. If there were 10 speed/tailgating cameras on this road, I bet by sweet buttocks that the death toll would reduce. I bet if you took away all speed cameras/red light cameras across the nation that it would increase.

If you do the crime (speeding), then do the time (fine) and if you don't speed then you don't have to worry if every street in Australia had a camera on it.

D-JAck

P.s. Thanks to all you out there who are paying in fines what would normally be taken out of my tax!
AnswerID: 153077

Follow Up By: Jimbo - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 09:57

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 09:57
Living proof that Government brainwashing campaigns DO work.
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 10:17

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 10:17
I assume you don't live in Victoria D-Jack?

In the real world it is impossible to regularly drive on the roads and not, sometimes exceed the speed limit by 3km, which is the camera margin here.

I often toy with the idea of starting a campaign to let government know how pi$$ed off (don't the $ signs work well there) many of us are with the speed cameras by always driving (say) 10 or 20kph below the speed limit. I reckon it would only take 5% or 10% of motorists to cause such a stuff up on the roads and grid lock the cities that the message would get through.

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: D-Jack - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 10:45

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 10:45
Mike, no I dont' live in Victoria, but here in SA every road that isn't marked as 60km/h or above (only on major arterial roads generally) are 50km/h limited and don't even have signs. Funny, I still haven't got a speed camera fine from them. I also fail to see how in the 'real world' you have no choice but to speed at times. Please explain. Do the roads have some sort of magnetic pull which probibits the vehicle slowing down or the brake coming on?

We have a similar amount of permanent speed cameras/red light cameras in the city in ADELAIDE and my work means I pretty well drive in the CBD all day, and funny enough I STILL haven't got a speeding fine.

p.s. thanks again to all those who subsidise my taxes.

p.s.s. I am really quite a nice bloke, I just find it funny that people think they don't have any choice but to speed sometimes.
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 11:07

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 11:07
D-Jack, are you honestly saying that you have never, inadvertently, exceeded any speed limit by 3kph or more?

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 11:11

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 11:11
Thing is that Adelaide is such a slow place no-one needs to hurry. So D-Jack can gloat in his ability to keep under 50 all he wants. And just think - all this without needing a 50k sign to help him.

The truth is, it's virtually impossible to keep within 3k of 100 or 110 when your speedo error is 5% and you don't know it.

And to thank everyone for subsidising his taxes by incurring fines is also a bit silly - no government has reduced any tax because of the traffic revenues.

I'm also quite a nice bloke but I object to supercilious attitudes.
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 11:30

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 11:30
I'm with you Jack, drive according to the road conditions but not over the speed limit, a wise strategy the contributes to health and wealth.
Too easy
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FollowupID: 406994

Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 13:22

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 13:22
Geez i keep hearing about how bad the roads are - Are all of you guys that young?? coz at 36 I can remember the highways so narrow trucks would drive down the centre and only move over when traffick came. I remember an unsealed Highway1, Dirt roads so bad that your averadge korean POS would have the undercarreige ripped out as the sound of sumps and diffs bottoming out in the potholes and washouts could be quite severe.
Things are light years ahead now and the vehicles are much improved to our V dubs, Cortinas and VF Valiants.
and Gerhardp1 please give me an example of 1 standard vehicle which has a speedo reading 5% fast - I fyou are in a vehicle modified in any way then it is your resposability to check the speedo and drive accordingly
BTW no speeding fines in 10 years
Last 3 in SA once was intentianally speeding (late for work) one was didnt see the sighn at Cavan and the last was inatentian through Pt wakefield
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Follow Up By: Exploder - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 13:26

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 13:26
Maybe they should set more realistic speed limits

Most hwy-way’s could be safely travel at 120Kp/h into today’s car’s/ 4WD and this is what a lot of the public travel at, I know I do.

Then some other roads say northwest coastal Hwy in WA well that can be taken at 130Kp/h easy (just not at night LOL)

Then there are road’s around the city they will just reduce the limit and Why, I don’t know the road has been a 80Zone for the last 15rs and know it’s a 70 and 60zone In placers and it’s a f**kning duel lane road, and you wonder why the public get bleep off.

If you rally think adding speed cameras and lowering limit’s will safe life’s you are living in a fantasy world, Sooner or latter some knuckle head going to get bleep off and start going on camera take down runes and just drive over the F**king things, and I for one will LMAO.

Reality is crashers will happen and people will die on the road.

What a guy in WA was clocked at 207Kp/h in what a porch and he’s lucking he didn’t kill someone or himself. Well not rely first up the car is made, designed, built to travel at that speed and where did this happen on some straight stretch of road at a time when there was no traffic, not saying it was the right thing to do but I would say he was pretty safe at the time. Hell I have done 170kp/h in my Explorer, done 195kp/h in a falcon Ute, now that was fast!!.

Teach people to drive cars and not to pars tests, and stop the bull bleep adds.
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FollowupID: 407008

Follow Up By: D-Jack - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 14:08

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 14:08
Mike, yes I have had a speed camera find before and I am man enough to admit that I broke the law and happily paid the consequences, just like the time I pushed it a litte far going though a red light (slow) after being frustrated at the slow cars in front). But consider this, there needs to be a point where there is an excessive speed that is considered by those elected by themajority to be dangerous. These are called 'SPEED LIMITS' . They are not a guideline or an option, they are the law. What's the point of havin g them if we let people sneak in an extra 5km/h before we worry about them. Maybe we should let shoplifters go if the value of the item they stole is under $1. Sounds fair. But that's not the way it is. The law is pretty black and white in most cases, and so are speed limits. So bring on more of them and only the ones that can control their right foot will not be affected.

I'm done. Been a pleasure gents.

D-Jack
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 14:34

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 14:34
"These are called 'SPEED LIMITS' . They are not a guideline or an option, they are the law."

But when the margin of error is less than the width of the actual speedo needle, what chance do you have if your speedo isnt digital giving 1klm increments?

Try it with your GPS, how much the needle has to move to go up 3kph. Then Sneeze and try it
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Follow Up By: SteveL - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 21:12

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 21:12
In Victoria we have MANY areas with varying speed limits signs and you only need to turn your head or be overtaken by a truck at the wrong time and you have NO idea what the speed limit is.Some people counter this by driving 20 or 30 km under the normal limit, I don't think this is making the roads safer and BTW I drive full-time and have had no fines in 10 years.-Steve
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Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 21:45

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 21:45
In victoria D-Jack the speed limits are so arbitary in addition to what the other guys are saying. We have the safest road in the state where the speed limite is at 100 kph. The only death on the safest section it was a drug death where a drugged driver rammed a car into roadside hardware. It has only been opened since November 02 and yet the state Police Minister quotes death figures for ten years - UNDER THE RESTRUCTURE LIMITS TOO - where the speed limits were frequently down to 40kph. Totally misleading to anyone who thinks. Massive spin from the Minister.

Another few highways not to the standard of this new Melbourne Geelong TOLLWAY like the Hume, and the Sturt Highway West of Mildura. The highways are so rated because they have low death rates or accident rates. The Melbourne Age over the weekend actually showed one street in Melbourne with bot a 50 kph and a 40 kph sign on it, dependent one the side of road you looked. Victorian speed limits are a ballsup of the highest order.

The highest rate of death or accident is the drug affected group. Near 40% of accidents are drug induced. Speed cameras don't pick them up. Speed cameras are only for revenue raising. Hidden so they will pick up the unwary.
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Reply By: Beemer - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 10:47

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 10:47
G'day,

We live in a world of signs, here's a thought; young person drives along and the sign tells him the speed limit so he/she speeds up to that speed, it's raining and the road is in poor condition but he/she continues to drive at the designated speed car bounces around but the thought process tells him at what speed he can drive. If the sign wasn't their what speed would he do. Just a thought. The unfortunate thing about our speed camera system is that too many people are looking at the speedo and not looking at the road. Lack of concetration to me is the real killer. How many people use a mobile phone, or a hand full of food and drink and try and juggle the steering wheel. How many of us out their have been driving along and suddenly drifted slightly over the centre line and then corrected. Just luck the the vehicle coming the other way was not at that particular point. Each one of us is guilty of error when driving. In a lot of cases it may just be luck.
I would rather see more police on our roads than driving along and concetrating on the speedo to ensure i am not 5km over.
I think we will always have a minority of young drivers who are reckless but we also read about male and female drunk drivers or drugs at mature ages, then we also have a minority of people at all age levels who are just as reckless.

Whats the solution, I'm not sure but I think we harp to much on speed, If you didn't have a speed limit out on the open road I am sure the majority of people would drive to their ability and not what the speed sign tells them.

The road carnage is far to high, not just in death but in road trauma injuries, How many of you out in 4wd land have a cargo barrier or actually secure your items in your vehicle. Doing this can redcue further injuries should you be involved in a collision even a minor one. The other thing that people fail to look at is hard or solid toys for children in a vehicle. These can create nasty injuries should you be involved in a collision. Even at 50kmh thinks will still fly around inside a car.

Jusy my thoughts.

Jake

AnswerID: 153087

Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 23:05

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 23:05
Jake, I don't disagree with you but just say there was an interesting guy visiting Australia last year. An Aussie by origine he talked about the amount of control that was being exercised. Speed limits and the lane controls at intersections too that limit the native flow.

Good drivers already control the speed to what is safest. I often find that where the traffic closes in I have already reduced my speed. Where it opens out and it is safe to move, the speed increases. If the road is narrow or slippery the speed reduces., wide and no traffic open up again. A near deserted road last year though cost me. Early in the morning, it was clear, no rain or fog. 4kph lower he said he would not have stopped me.

The lane controls actually reduce the total flow of cars so that only left turning cars and right turning cars at some intersections actauuly get priority rather than the through traffic which is actually the higher traffic number weightings. The through traffic frequently in cases like that getting one through lane. I wish I had taken down details of the reseaercher.

Yes, the inexperienced are problems. I like to make sure people who frequent unmade roads get wheels off the blacktop too to understand the slippage with buckshot gravel under tyres. I agree with the people on phones. I guess I have done that too but love the phone speaker integrated through my radio in my car these days.

Hope that has amplified someway towards your thoughts......
Cheers,
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John

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Reply By: Member - Marquis - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 10:59

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 10:59
I was in Germany a few years back - they had just band speed cameras as they were causing a huge number of deaths.
Apparently the fast drivers would see them, hit the brakes hard and cause pile-ups
Correct me if I got any facts wrong (but that's what I was told)
AnswerID: 153089

Reply By: Scubaroo - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 11:44

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 11:44
What one user posted earlier is the answer - EDUCATION!

When I was in year 12 at high school ('92), our year of 100 students were offered an elective course in driver safety. Only four students signed up for it, so it was never run. It should have been compulsory! This is in a school of only 1000 students that lost on average 3-4 students a year in drunken car accidents to/from parties etc.

Yet we had drug education courses - don't ever remember anyone dying from a drug overdose, and they didn't talk about cigarettes or alcohol.

My total driver education experience at school was a 20 minute show and tell from a science teacher of what the different components of the engine under the hood of his old Commodore in the teacher carpark were.

Hate to say it, but a couple of those hours a week we spent analysing "Pride and Prejudice" would have better been spent in year long driver education classes (not just tootling along the same path to/from school every day on our Ls, or driver education companies that just showed you how to drive the route that the RTA testers would take you on) - I know a couple of schoolmates who might still be alive today if this had been the case.
AnswerID: 153097

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 14:35

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 14:35
"It should have been compulsory!"

Could NOT agree more!!!! They do it in Terroristville USA, its a proper subject in class. Why not start it here.

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FollowupID: 407023

Reply By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 13:18

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 13:18
As someone who used to drive for a living I like to think I have seen it all out there on the roads, however I still get amazed just dropping the kids off at school what some people do. Some of the most dangerous drivers I see are doing 40km/hr in a 60km/hr zone, speed is'nt everything and 5-10k's an hour is not the reason people are losing lives IMHO.

My mother in law (she is a lovley lady, but a very opinioned kiwi) used to always say the old line of "It's SO simple, just don't speed and you won't get caught!".

I had a hell of a time holding the laughter in over the last 2 months as she copped not one but TWO multanova speeding fines for less than 10k's over. :-)

And as you can imagine, she has changed her tune some what recently to join the side of the argument that the rest of us who see through the greed and lies are on.
AnswerID: 153121

Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 22:49

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 22:49
Jeff, I hear it so often from the brigade who are already doing something they could get caught for, though mouth the "don't speed message" or the "do the crime, pay the fine". As I said elsewhere, the do something else that they or their suppliers have not at that stage been caught up with. Everyone is guilty of something, including me.

In Victoria, the Nanny State has got everone by the gnuts and a twist here or there will crack the voters away ;-)
Cheers,
Who?
John

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Reply By: Brett_B - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 18:12

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 18:12
Speed kills they say, so they set up these cameras and tell us it saves lives, what speed are they talking about 0 - 40 kph, 40 - 80 kph 80 to 100 - 200 ?

I have spent some time whizzing along the autobahns in Germany and i'm still here, my colleagues whizz along there every morning - afternoon and there still here.

Of cause some idiot doing 80-100 in a school zone at 3.30pm (i have seen this) should be hung, no speed camera's in that area however, wouldn't make enough money.

On average 8 people in Australia kill them self's (suicide) everyday, I don't know the road toll figures but I would say this is greater amount of deaths, why isn't there the interest in reducing these deaths ?

- There's no money in it.

These speed camera's are primarily money earners I feel that's it.
AnswerID: 153168

Follow Up By: chump_boy - Monday, Feb 06, 2006 at 08:52

Monday, Feb 06, 2006 at 08:52
8 people a day commit suicide? I would guess the number of people killed on the roads would be 3 a day or so (purely a guess...).

Damn - thats more than I thought. I live with a person with depression, and know several others. Suicide is a major worry to their loved ones.

A quick search of Google revelas:

9% of 12-17 year olds are killed by suicide,
9% of 12-17 year olds are killed as either a driver or passenger.
13.4% of 18-24 year olds are killed by suicide,
9.7% of 18-24 year olds are killed as either a driver or passenger.
(http://www.aihw.gov.au/publications/phe/ayp03/ayp03-c04.pdf - look on page 41)...

Talk about having our priorites out of whack. But I spose there is no money to be made in youth suicide, and car crashes make for better publicity than greving families wondering what they did wrong to force someone over the edge...........

Cheers,

Chump
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FollowupID: 407201

Reply By: woddonnee - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 22:50

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 22:50
G'day all
Victoria's leeway is rather slim, it does work in keeping to the limit but I can understand how people get cheesed of with such a small margin for error.
Like others here I have a fair bit of experience in driving, being originally taught by my father who, amongst other great experience was a british army driving instructor. I drove trucks and other stuff, became a fire fighter 27 years ago driving fire appliances, became a driving instructor for the fire service about 16 years ago and have done a lot of driver training at work. Teaching people to drive better when they already think they are hot shots can be somewhat testy at times LOL.
Having crapped on let me share this experience. Roughly 14-16 years ago there was much whinging about speed cameras here in SA, it got very political, prompting the gutless pollies to cave in and withdraw speed cameras from use altogether. This lasted a few months. On my drive home, I noticed that where previously most traffic had been doing 65-70k's (60 zone) the average became 80k's. Previously, the occassional speedster would do 80k's, but was now doing a 100 or more. At work the response to accidents and number of fatalities absolutely sky rocketed from 1 every couple of months or so to more than 1 a week during this period. I spoke to police and an insurance guy and they had the same observations in there work. This period proved to me that most of us are undisciplined on the road and that most do fear getting hit in the back pocket. Without that deterrent we feel we can leave for work 5 minutes late and get there on time. To me people who whinge about speed cameras are comparable to thieves complaining about survellence cameras.
Please take it easy out there, don't speed, don't tailgate and be prepared for anything, except a speeding fine :-)
cheers
Rod
AnswerID: 153231

Follow Up By: woddonnee - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 22:56

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 22:56
Just re-reading, "At work the response to accidents and number of fatalities absolutely sky rocketed from 1 every couple of months or so to more than 1 a week during this period." I'm referring to fatalities here.
I forgot to mention that road crash resue is a specialised role here and at that time was permanently riding on a RCR vehicle. Now i only do it half of my time.
cheers
Rod
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FollowupID: 407149

Reply By: BorisK - Monday, Feb 06, 2006 at 00:32

Monday, Feb 06, 2006 at 00:32
I drove in QLD from the age of 15 till about 21. Im 33 now. Law was that you had to double the speed limit plus the variation % to lose your licence on the spot so my mates and I always stayed just under double the speed limit if we could. Did between 30-40,000kms each through city and country, dirt and bitumen. Drove from Brisbane to Geelong in under 14 hours once including 3 fillups. I love driving. We are all still alive. Never caused an accident. Never lost my licence. Came to many conclusions one being that speed doesnt kill. Speed only adds to severity of consequence of a mistake be it you or the other driver or a pedestrian that makes the mistake. Mistakes kill. Mistakes kill at very slow speeds too. Millions of cars travelling in close proximity and in opposing directions and in amongst pedestrians and bike riders (that adds a few more million lives to the equation). What are the odds that theres going to be a collision? (Where are the govt. statisticians?) Someone is going to be killed as a consequence of a mistake. Ban all mistakes if it only saves one life it is worth it. Heard that somewhere before? Mistakes is the cause of accidents. We are only human arent we?
AnswerID: 153247

Follow Up By: woddonnee - Monday, Feb 06, 2006 at 07:19

Monday, Feb 06, 2006 at 07:19
Boris
Many of us were d!ckheads when we were young, I certainly was. Please keep a copy of your post and re read it in 10 or 20 years.
Hopefully you will be discusted
cheers
Rod
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FollowupID: 407188

Follow Up By: BorisK - Monday, Feb 06, 2006 at 10:06

Monday, Feb 06, 2006 at 10:06
Woddonnee I can understand your type I have sympathy for you. Too many anomolies and pressures for you to really figure it out and think clearly. Its easier to just go with the flow, be a victim of the govt. and media brainwashing. After all you have no choice really, what can you do about the big powers that be. Nothing really eh ! What happened in S.A. after they took the cameras out for a period of time I believe is a natural human reaction and the speeders would have settled down after some police presence was shown. I know you cant help being a m$r$n your just like me, HUMAN. What I have seen of the driving instructors where I live here pretty much proves that.
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FollowupID: 407208

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Monday, Feb 06, 2006 at 10:47

Monday, Feb 06, 2006 at 10:47
I've said it before and I'l say it again. Look at WA vs NT.
It is very unusual for the NT to even have ONE fatality over the holidays, 2005 unfortunatally that is exactaly what they got 1. The only state or territory to have no speed limits on the open road. I would say that WA and NT.

2005 Road Toll Statistics.
Northern Territory 1
Western Australia 9

Queensland 19
New South Wales 20
Australian Capital Territory 0
Victoria 16
Tasmania 2
South Australia 12

Gee WA's double demerit points, hidden speed cameras, hundres of new "Highway Patrol" cars and lower (sometimes rediculous) speed limits are really helping. Helping make the govt Millions of dollars. That appears to be it really.
Very interesting... I decided to have a look at a time before all of the speed cameras, lower speed limits, double demerit points and highway patrol cars. I honestly randomally chose the year 1990. Guess how many people died on WA roads over the christmas holidays in 1990.... Go on, have a guess!! 9.
Let me put it simple for you:
WA ROAD TOLL DEATHS OVER CHRISTMAS PERIOD:
1990 : 9
2005 : 9

Hmmmmm.....
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FollowupID: 407214

Reply By: Rod W - Monday, Feb 06, 2006 at 10:39

Monday, Feb 06, 2006 at 10:39
Should put em at all Stop signs aswell. Cause lots of drivers don't know what STOP means. Its an untapped goldmine.
AnswerID: 153292

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Feb 06, 2006 at 10:40

Monday, Feb 06, 2006 at 10:40
God please dont say things like that, someone may hear you ;)
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FollowupID: 407212

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