firearms

dc - sorry, just re-read that and it sounded a bit aggressive - here's why:
In 1999 my wife and I were camping at Werrekimbe National Park(Mooraback camping area) when a normal suburban type camping guy pointed a loaded 22 at my wife when she walked past their campsite at around 10.30pm in the evening on the way to the river to get water for the billy for the morning. I can still remember my wifes scream and the fear that remained on her face until we left the campsite the following day (early I might add). The reason why this happened. They guy had a rifle to kill any wildlife that he hit. When camping he kept the rifle in the tent with him for security of the weapon. When he heard noise outside his tent he emerged with the loaded rifle and automatically raised it as he looked for the noise. I believe my wife was not far away from being shot. The gentlemen concerned apologised profusely and looked maginally more scared than my wife. In addition he begged that we did not report the incident to the ranger or police. As he could easily get our rego from the car we did not report him. He seemed a nice enough sort of bloke, who just had a gun and maybe a misplaced fear of anything outside his tent.

The point is, he was not a Rambo type, but when a rifle is present accidents can happen - no rifle - no accident.

My wife still lives with this memory when ever she looks around at fellow campers. Fortunately she still enjoys our trips, however she will not leave the tent without me in the night.

I believe there is a place for firearms in rural Australia - but not in the recreational 4wd / camping kit. I currently work for the largest privately owned agricultural company in Australia, with a fleet of over 200 Toyota Hiluxes/ 100ser./75's. Out of all these vehicles based rurally there would be less that 20 rifles carried in the company vehicles. These rifles are used for culling roos and at cattle strikes (you can't put a wheel over a beasts head).

Do yourself a favour and get rid of the rifle - you don't need it, and getting rid of it may just stop a situation like what happenned to us.

Moggs, because of this one instance where you allege your wife was threatened you automatically assume all gun owners are irresponsible and stupid! Your reasoning seems to be on a par with the anti 4wd people - someone is killed through irresponsible driving of a 4wd and therefore all 4wd's should be banned!

Your ridiculous comment "I suggest you consider moving to the states where you can pursue your gun fetish with like minded individuals. Hope you feel like a real man with your 22" only further highlights that you have a nasty and biased attitude.

As for your comment " run the front or rear tire over neck/head if car is still roadworthy" all I can say is thank goodness not everyone is that callous in the treatment of animals. But instead prefer to be more humane when putting an animal out of its misery.

A large wounded animal that is still quite active is far safer put down with a firearm rather than having to get close enough to kill it by hand (that's assuming you can get close enough). And as for chasing it with your vehicle, in an effort to run over the top of it - no thanks.

What probably most often happens when people don't have a firearm (which would enable them to quickly and safely put down a wounded animal) is that they just don't bother stopping when they hit animal.

Alleged?? It happened - not that I care if you believe it or not. In addition I suggest you re-read my post - I do not automatically assume every gun owner is irresponsible and stupid. Robert, try a bit harder to read and understand the posts before submitting a follow-up. I've never called anything stupid in this forum, however if I was to use that term it would be directed at you.

Moggs,

You make the comment "I suggest you consider moving to the states where you can pursue your gun fetish with like minded individuals. Hope you feel like a real man with your 22" and then you imply I'm stupid - unbelievable!

For anyone to behave with a firearm in the incident that you allege happened would be totally irresponsible and stupid. Surely you're not going to disagree with that?

And were you or were not implying that everyone with a firearm when camping could potentially end up doing something similar to the guy in your alleged incident? If not why mention it? Why then makes the comment: "but when a rifle is present accidents can happen - no rifle - no accident

That is implying every firearm owner is potentially stupid and irresponsible!

If it's not then why say that NO ONE should not have a firearm when camping????

Robert, I am just trying to make my point that if you don't have a rifle, you have removed the potential for a firearm accident. I am sure that many responsible, intelligent people have been involved in accidental shootings. I am not trying to label all firearm owners as irresponsible or stupid, and I apologise if I have not expressed myself clearly enough.

I do believe that no-one should have a firearm while recreational camping - this does not mean I believe all are irresponsible and stupid.

Lets just leave it - as dc said its a controversial issue. I probably should not have posted as my views are formed from our bad experience, however I stick by them now they are out there.

Moggs,
I would have run him and his gun over at 3am as I left...

and then this dribble...

"That is implying every firearm owner is potentially stupid and irresponsible!"

No its not, its saying Accidents happen, even to Cops, Army people and normal shooters..

"And were you or were not implying that everyone with a firearm when camping could potentially end up doing something similar to the guy in your alleged incident?"

Why couldnt it??

And potetially why couldnt it happen again???

Why couldn't it?

Because not every firearm owner would be so stupid and irresponsible to:


A. Have a loaded firearm in the tent with them.
B. On hearing a noise emerge from their tent with their firearm.
C. At any time go pointing their firearm at anything unless they know clearly what it is (and that it is what they intend to shoot) and there is no danger to either people or property.

Accidents can happen - no one would disagree with that. But in the scenario that Moggs mentions, if his wife had been shot it would not have been through an accident, it would have been through stupidity and irresponsibility.

Truckster you wrote; "I would have run him and his gun over at 3am as I left..." and you accuse me of dribble!

So Robert, you know every gun owner in the country??? I am not talking of everyone.. Im talking of a few. and they are out there.

You know the bloke that pointed the gun at Moggs Wife? More likely to happen in USA than here, but dont say it wont happen, or couldnt. I know some real meatheads back in Sydney that I wouldnt trust with a water pistol, but they have guns, go out bleep to the eyes shooting... They regularly ask me to go with them, and I bluntly refuse, then the Ozi style name calling starts as Im a wimp etc. Not really I have brains.

So dont say it cant happen. it can... Theres gun accidents all the time with some moron bleep to the eyes out there in the trees with his mates...

Truckster you wrote; "I would have run him and his gun over at 3am as I left..." and you accuse me of dribble!

If someone pointed a gun at your wife like that, what would you do? Hand him a beer and say oh its ok mate, she looks like a deer/rabbit/roo/etc...
Go to smack him in the mouth or take a bat with you hes gonna shoot you.... He doesnt have brains to know the difference by the sounds of it.

Being considerate enough to put an animal out of its misery has nothing to do with responsible gun ownership. My point, which I admit was put forward in a tactless manner, is that situations can develop in which a firearm can be discharged by a 'responsible' gun owner that end in tradgedy. Gun accidents do not need 'intent' to happen and can result from any number of emotive confrontations. If the gun isn't there - no-one gets shot.

And yes - a sharp knife will do the job - however many people would not be able to stomach plunging it in.

"If the gun isn't there - no-one gets shot"

with that sort of reasoning then lets also ban alcohol.

If the alcohol isn't available - no-one gets killed by drunk drivers.

Point is Robert, if a gun is present an accident can happen. Drink driving is an entirely different kettle of fish - a conscious decision is made to drive a vehicle when drunk - if you hit someone it is referred to as an accident - I don't think this is an apt description - it is a crime. I stand by the comment that if the gun isn't there no-one gets shot.

The end result is the same : Someone hurt or dead!

Is the bottom line according to you that being killed or hurt accidently by a firearm is tragic and unacceptable. But being killed or hurt by a drunk driver is more acceptable?

The point is that in most situations there is potetial for accidents to happen - That's Life.

Robert, being killed in either manner is tragic. I agree, in most situations there is potential for accidents, and that yes, that is life.
Lets agree to disagree on the firearm question and leave it at that as we are not really adding anything here.

Hi Moggs,

Your comment: "Lets agree to disagree on the firearm question and leave it at that" - Good idea! I agree.

Cheers
Robert

Robert posted this followup
"If the gun isn't there - no-one gets shot"
with that sort of reasoning then lets also ban alcohol.
If the alcohol isn't available - no-one gets killed by drunk drivers.


If you would have seen your mates 2 kids run down and killed by a repeat drink driver, you would agree with that idea, also if you were the parent.

Truckster,

I am a parent, and if I were unlucky enough to lose my daughter in an accident because of a drunk driver, I would want that drunk driver to pay for his or her actions. I would not call for alcohol to be banned and hence make EVERYONE suffer just because of one irresponsible individual.

My anger would be directed where it should be, at the drunk driver. I wouldn't be making excuses for him or her by blaming it on alcohol.

Sorry Rob, until it happens to you, how could you honestly say... Either way, to ban or not to ban... Im as guilty as you on that.. There are more and more irresponsible individuals out there drink driving everyweek now. Figures prove that, fear of cops or losing license doesnt work anymore.

yes anger at the person, I would be like the guy on tele in america the other week sitting there listening to some guy describe raping and killing his 3-4yr old.. He tried to jump the counter and kill the prick... I would too. without doubt...

But I dont drink much anymore, so wouldnt bother me if they banned it anyway. But if you mentioned banning it 15+ yrs ago when I was a pi$$head, then I would answer differently.

Forge,

Save your money, there won't be any show with me breaking a roo's neck or swinging an axe. That's what husbands are for...rest assured I'll be cowering on the other side of the car while the deed is done.

:o) Melissa

BTW Forge, I'm not anti-gun...my father, brothers, uncles etc have all done a bit of shooting (rabbits, foxes etc). I don't have the stomach to shoot an animal but I'm enjoy shooting at targets.

:o) Melissa

Tragic accident in the NT yesterday where mother lost control of her car which went into the swollen cullen river and her 3 young children were lost. She survived. It is believed she hit something on the road before the accident.

Went to kathererine today and had to hit brakes to miss a large buffalo and 10 minutes later came across a large herd of brumbys.

The biggest risk to your safety is clearly the vehicle you are travelling in.

I know this is a bit off the point but I think it does have some relevance. i think that there are other issues than guns that are more relavant to personal safety and in relevance, the risk of gun owners to others is overstated. About 2000 australians per year die on teh roads. In the outback, most fatalities are single vehicle accidents. Many of those are people serving to miss wildlife. Forget about skippy, for your own safety drive so as to minimise your risk of collision with wildlife.


Sean

sorry about been so terse guys but i think only robert and forge have any real"expieriance about these matters there not silly enough to even attempt 2 kill a pig or roo with a knife as for running it over get real .

Talk about running over a pig...my brother hit a pig quite a few years back. It went under the bullbar, under the wheel which it shredded along with some panel work with its tusks as it came out the side.

Car was a bit of a mess, but the pig just got up and trotted away. My brother had his rifle with him and he loaded it and kept it with him as he fashioned some repairs...just in case that very angry pig came back.

:o) Melissa

There are plenty of people up here who hunt pigs with dogs and a knoife. Most of them will not allow guns as they consider them far more dangerous than a wild pig. Cheers Rob