Hoons becoming a real problem

Submitted: Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 18:19
ThreadID: 30742 Views:2671 Replies:15 FollowUps:39
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Hi all
Had the windscreen broken on the landy last night , looks like some intelligent moron through a rock at it from 30 mts away. To make things worse it was parked in my own front yard. As a young bloke we did some stupid things but always had some respect for other peoples property what ever it might have been. Its hard to follow the mentality of these guys that get a skin full, then cause havoc where ever they go. Taking the cane out of schools was a big mistake, stupid laws make it hard to disciplin our kids, bring out the whip and a size 10 boot up the cyber helps two. Politicans have got to get their heads around this problem.

Cheers, Axle with the chits
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Reply By: Mike Harding - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 18:23

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 18:23
>Politicans have got to get their heads around this problem.

No. Parents have got to do that. They have to get off their butts and properly parent their children, give them values, respect and self-worth and spend time with their children not in front of a TV.

People make the society, not politicians.

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: andymitch - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 18:36

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 18:36
Trouble is that you dare to lift a finger to chastise miscreants they immeadiatly scream for the police about being assulted and you are the one to be arrested. The pollies are the ones who have made the laws that enable these type of people to get away with it. There was a saying " spare the rod and spoil the child" how true that is
Andy (who remembers his father's Heavy Hand and the respect that was instiled by it)
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Follow Up By: Member - John - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 19:12

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 19:12
Hear Hear..............................
John and Jan

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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 19:23

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 19:23
Respect is earned - never demanded.

I do not believe hitting children will earn one respect - and neither do I think it should.

But that is a whole different area of debate and I don't wish to hijack this thread in that regard.

Mike Harding

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Follow Up By: Axle - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 19:33

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 19:33
Respect is taught mike., Like the early days at school . class 1 2 3 Got the feather duster, after that it was the cane. It worked at school mate!
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Follow Up By: Member - Andy Q (VIC) - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 20:51

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 20:51
Come on you guys, respect, like Mike says is earned, can't be taught. This thread is subject and certainly not objective. In all of this, sounds like there are some of you looking to shift/handball the blame to anyone!!
Oh! Yeah and Andy. Your father instilled in you FEAR not respect, don't tell you weren't scared w(s)hitless buy the thought of his heavy hand!!
andy.
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Follow Up By: Gramps - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 20:57

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 20:57
Andy Q,

And I suppose you'd just sit down with the little darlings and tell them it was naughty and everything would be fine from then on. No wonder SOME can do what they like. There's absolutely no repercussions whatsoever no matter what the crime. In case you don't realize it, vandalism is a crime.

Absolutely nothing wrong with a little fear. The world turns on fear of one thing or another.

Regards
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 21:06

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 21:06
>"not all the darkness in the world can extinguish the
>light of one candle"

>Absolutely nothing wrong with a little fear. The world
>turns on fear of one thing or another.

However can you make those two statements in one post?

The title "Gramps" suggests you know something about children!?

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Gramps - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 21:14

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 21:14
Mike,

It's called being a realist and not brainwashed by half arsed psychologists/psychiatrists who would'nt know night from day and take ABSOLUTELY no responsibility for the damage they cause.

No one's saying you should scare the living daylights out of any child but the occasional instance of discipline reinforces the simple fact that their actions can have unpleasant consequences.

Once they get older and have no history of discipline behind them, we reap what some incompetent fool has sowed.
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Follow Up By: Axle - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 21:23

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 21:23
That is a statement that only a fool would would criticise

Thanks Gramps.
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 21:24

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 21:24
I'm pleased to see we've moved from fear to discipline. Pity we didn't start there in the first place.

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Rock Crawler - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 21:25

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 21:25
Sorry Mike , behave to disagree with you mate. I always believe that a smack on the bum is sometimes needed when logic prevails . But amazed how the cops are called the min you do it. How can you discipline your kids , when there taught at school . if you not happy the way your treated at home you can divorce your parents , call the cops , basically do what you like .

anyway . ill let my temper die down a little and come back to this post a little later
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 21:30

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 21:30
I have no issue with the odd smack on the bum - my grown children have received a few of those from me. Although not for a while: given they are both over 6' and 90kg! :)

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Gramps - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 21:33

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 21:33
Axle,

I can understand your frustration. It's an absolute PITA.

Mike,

Sorry mate. Discipline does have an element of fear attached to it. You could argue that any law in existence is really a veiled threat and what keeps most of us from abiding by most laws is the fear of retribution :)))

I don't believe in beating the living daylights out of any child for whatever reason, however, as per Rock Crawler's comment above, the very occasional light tap when they're young has never hurt anyone.

Regards
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 21:44

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 21:44
So you don’t really think instilling fear into children is a good thing then Gramps? Just the occasional tap on the bum?

There is a _big_ difference between the two - and I appreciate that may have been lax wording on your behalf - but to the children who regularly suffer fear (and there are a lot of them) it's a big difference.

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Gramps - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 21:53

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 21:53
Mike,

"Discipline does have an element of fear attached to it". I'll stand by that statement against any argument.

If we are going to take this further then I suggest you define what you understand fear to mean.

To me, a child being in fear of a smack on the bottom is a damn sight different to one that is in fear of being hurt sufficiently to require medical attention which seems to be the way you are directing your argument.

Please clarify.
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 22:02

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 22:02
Normal children are not "in fear" of a smack on the bottom.

And "fear" should _NEVER_ be a part of the child rearing process - if we disagree on that then this discussion is pointless.

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Axle - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 22:06

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 22:06
I think the word ABUSE could have been used but it is not a issue , the new screen just gone in , so thats it. Think i might sleep on the front lawn tonight, Shotty beside me.
HA HA. Cheers Axle
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Follow Up By: Gramps - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 22:07

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 22:07
Mike,

So you believe your children were never in fear of getting a smack on the bottom for being naughty. I think they may tell you differently if they can recall their feelings at the time. That is NOT a criticism of your child rearing by ANY means.

Regards
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Follow Up By: andymitch - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 23:04

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 23:04
I have just come back online and thought I would catch up with this thread. Firstly to Mike H & AndyQ I don't recall saying anything about fear of my father in fact I was never beaten but I did get the flat of his hand now and again as a reminder of misbehavior, however I do recall haveing a great amount of fear in regard to the local gentleman in blue who knew every kid in the village. I certainly do not feel that a sharp reminder on responsablity of citizenship at a young age does not go amiss, after 18 years of working in forensic psychiatry I have met far to many young people who have been allowed to do what ever they wanted without repercusion.
Andy
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Follow Up By: robak (QLD) - Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 10:27

Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 10:27
So, are the adult prisoners of today, the children of parents who didn't smack?
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Follow Up By: porl - Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 11:29

Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 11:29
Well i was never hit once, nor my brother. I'm not a hoon, have never been one or done anything that would cause someone to call me one, and my brother is a Colonel in the Aust. army, hardly a hoon.

So it's back to parenting isn't it.
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Follow Up By: Bob - Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 11:59

Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 11:59
Rock through the windscreen at 30 mtr!
Better find him.
The Aus. cricket team could use that bloke.

Bob
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Reply By: Trevor R (QLD) - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 18:36

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 18:36
Hi Axle,

That's not the best news I've heard recently, but Mike (above) has a point. The parents of these $hitheads need just as much punishment as the delinquents that commit such crimes.
If however you were to find the mongrels who did this, and proceed to nut them to teach them a lesson it is you who would get the wrap over the knuckles by the system??? that's what I think the politicians need to address.
Don't put it past one of your neighbours to have seen or even be able to identify the car or hoons who did this, a doorknock may be a good way to introduce yourself to some of your neighbours and find the mongrels as well.
Good luck and best regards Trevor.
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Follow Up By: Axle - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 19:07

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 19:07
Trevor
I agree its the system thats gone mad. Did the run around the block, neighbours were concerned but as usual didnt hear or see anything. trouble is there elderley people and probably not game to point the finger.
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Follow Up By: frontykeeper - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 22:42

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 22:42
trevor,
how can you say the parents should be punished? how do you know that the parents have not done the right thing by teaching them the values of society but the kid has chosen to ignore that.
parents can only instill in their kids the good values and then let the children decide for themselves. one can not police their child's every move.
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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 23:24

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 23:24
frontykeeper,

I agree that not every parent of every delinquent can bourden the blame for their childs actions. However I have been around enough slack parents and delinquent kids to know that some parents should bourden the blame for the lack of parental control. On eof the contracts I fulfill is repairing vending machines, and when you see the damage I do, caused by 8 and 10 yr olds at 2 and 3 in the morning you have to ask WTF are there parents doing.
Cheers Trevor
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Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 18:43

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 18:43
Axle,

Don't give them any excuses. They were probably "cold hard sober".
They are so disenfranchised, they just don't give a fig.
After all, what's the courts going to do to them?

What's required?...simple...corporal punishment. In the home and in the schools.
Nothing like a whack to give a youngster something to think about.

It didn't do me any physiological harm, but sure made me think twice about doing the same thing again.

You know, the teacher I had the most respect for at high school, was the one who wielded the cane now and again. The one you couldn't bluff.

Boy, that was a "few" years ago!
Bill


I'm diagonally parked in a parallel Universe!

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Follow Up By: Member - Luxoluk - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 19:42

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 19:42
Still have vivid memories of stuffing the back pockets with wallet, hankerchief etc...protection against the more sadistic teachers of the day...fear ain't necessarily a bad thing...real character building!!
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Reply By: Member - Willie , Epping .Syd. - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 19:06

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 19:06
Axle ,
What you say MUST be true . I was caned constantly at school and I have never thrown a rock at a car .
On a more serious note , my condolences .
Willie .
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Follow Up By: Axle - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 19:16

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 19:16
Well there you go Willie, You turned out rock solid.
Had a few sixes myself.
Thanks axle.
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Reply By: peter d - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 20:17

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 20:17
I think everyone has there own views on this one. me i but all the blame right on all the do gooders, like what has been said above you can't touch them without getting into trouble with the law. so you can't blame all the parents. whats all this sh#$%^%t about divorcing your parents when you are only 16-17. i ask you, what is the world coming to. it urks me up. thats my little bit. have a good night all
peter.
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Follow Up By: peter d - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 21:09

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 21:09
the paper a few weeks ago . bloke woke up and found front fence covered in graffiti, police not over worred so he did a little digging around and found who had done it and where they lived, went seen mother of the so and so, she said he was a little stressed that night and was just releasing his tension. no more to it. so bloke goes down buys a 6 pack and some spray paint goes around and starts the same on her fence, she comes out asks what the hell you think you doing and he says its ok i'm just a bit stressed and need to releave the tension, she rings police and again they not worred . justice i loved it even if it was just a story. not sure where it was now can't remember.
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 21:34

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 21:34
I like it :)

Mike Harding
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Reply By: Ray Bates - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 21:54

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 21:54
A good thrashing didn't do me any harm or any of my generation. We didn't steel cars, we didn't rob the defenceless, we didn't do grafity, we didn't do drugs, we did have a go at alchahole and smoked a bit and most of all we respected our perents, school teachers and women and girls and pederfiles were not heard of.
I was braught up in the eastend of London and during the blitz of London.
All this vandalism started when the government via the dogooders banned corparal punishment and the courts don't help. I would strongly recomend that the age of responsability be lowered so that those little bleep s that commit crimes can be punished and that the older ones be delt with in the adault courts rather than the childrens court.
I do not believe in capitol punishment but after living in Singapore for a number of years where corporal punishment is carried out, there is very little crime. This could not happen in Australia as our pollies do not have the courage to bring in such a bill
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 22:26

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 22:26
Very, very true Ray.....well spoken and I agree with every word.
Cheers
Roachie.....

Axle, sorry to read of your story mate, I can only hope it all comes back together okay and maybe you can find a safer place to park your rig (but you shouldn't HAVE to do so in this great country of ours).
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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 23:10

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 23:10
Ray,

Similar to you....A good thrashing didn't do me any harm or any of my generation. I had mates who stole cars, like you we didn't rob the defenceless, some of my mates did grafity, I and my friends did drugs, we did have a go at alchahole and smoked a bit and most of all we respected our perents, school teachers and women and girls and pederfiles were (unfortunately) heard of......... BUT the difference between me and my friends (I believe) was that I was totally $hit scared of what my old man would do to me if I done any real crime to someone else's property. What I did to my own was my own downfall as I had to earn and pay for what I owned via w/end jobs. Some of my mates went down the wayside but I chose not to follow to closely, thankfully I can say that IS something my father taught me.
It has so much to do with the parents to a point but if that child runs off the rails after about 15 or 16 then the system needs to accommodate these folk.

My 2 bob worth from a mid 30's guy.
Regards Trevor.
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Follow Up By: Member -Dodger - Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 17:55

Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 17:55
Agree totally Guy's.
I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.

Cheers Dodg.

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Reply By: Member - 'Lucy' - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 23:30

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 23:30
I just wish you 'Attila the Hun Disiplinarians' would shut up, because if your type win this argument, I am out of a job. (ROFLMAO)

Oh! to the meek, mild, pacifists of this world - Bring It On I say and let the money flow.
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Follow Up By: Gramps - Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 23:37

Monday, Feb 13, 2006 at 23:37
Good Evening Lucy,

I'm sorry to say that there is more than enough work currently to keep you gainfully employed for as long as you wish to work :)))
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 22:39

Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 22:39
Work???? hahahahaha doesnt know the meening of it
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Reply By: The Rambler( W.A.) - Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 00:30

Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 00:30
For every action there is an equal but opposite reaction----break my windscreen and just hope that I am not around,that's all I can say.
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Reply By: Footloose - Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 01:11

Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 01:11
Axle. sorry to hear it. I think I know some of what you're going through. I've had vehicles stolen and trashed.
Unfortunatly as a society we are reaping what we've sowed.

As the thread indicates, its a complex problem with emotive issues.
As for the "good old days", they didn't actually exist. Crime was just as bad but we didn't have a telly to let us know. Pedophiles abounded, but few of us knew. The first one I heard about frrom my friends was in 1959.The first person arrested in NSW for drugs was a woman in 1946 !

We feared before we learned respect. It kept many of us from harm, or from a wasted life. But there are different degrees of fear. We don't go to work because we respect our boss, we go to work because we fear what happens if we don't.
The spare the rod or belt the kid arguement is old hat. I'm afraid it's too late for that. By several generations. It's a done deal.

Lower the age of criminal responsibility ? Definately, but to where ? I saw a program where parents are training their kids to shoplift at 6 !
Make the parents responsible for the actions of their kids ? Possibly. But in conjunction, make the agencies that place children in their care, responsible for the kids actions. Then lets how many children are pushed under the umbrella of agencies that simply fund them into anti social misfits, because of their "caseload".

On a more positive note there are more researchers paid peanuts trying to cure diseases, more people concerned about the environment, more people trying to do good in this world than at any time in history.

Question. Where did they come from ?

They were the kids that didn't make the news. Most of them still don't. They were the uncool nerds and anti social misfits that had their heads down and tail up in school and university. They didn't smash windscreens. They didn't murder taxi drivers. Many will never have a lot of money, it doesn't rule their universe. There weren't any human rights lawyers when I grew up.

There's a lot to be said for youth, and not all of it's bad.

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Follow Up By: Michael B - Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 11:25

Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 11:25
Footloose,

I could not agree more, well said.

Michael B (SA)
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Reply By: Member - Troll 81 (QLD) - Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 01:43

Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 01:43
Sorry about the damage Axle

I SAY BRING THE CANE BACK. I got a good beating when I was a kid at school and at home and I am not to bad these days

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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 03:55

Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 03:55
?? how would the cane help? These kids dont go to school I see them wandering the streets all hours all days smashing up the house accross the street, Lighting fires in the park accross the road and vandalising the fence, Breaking into the guy nearbys shed and it just goes on. No these kids dont go to school and they get no parenting from their permanantly drunk parents
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Reply By: Shaker - Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 11:10

Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 11:10
It is said "that for every action, there is a reaction".

Unfortunately it no longer applies to the type of problems referred to in the post.
In these days of 'political correctness', even if these vandals are caught there are little or no consequences, so there is absolutely no deterrent to stop them repeat offending.
Children need to be taught, both at home & in school, that if they offend the standards set by our society, then there will a reaction, & they will be punished.
The lame old excuse of "we have got nothing to do" just doesn't cut ice.
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Reply By: nowimnumberone - Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 13:03

Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 13:03
true story.
2 weeks ago some one decided to shyte on the bonet of the bosses car.
last week some one decided to number one all over the bosses car.
and no it wasnt my job to clean it up thats why we have a tom.
who know why they do such stupid things and lets see how agro they get in 20 yrs when it happens to them.
cheers
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Reply By: D-Jack - Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 16:40

Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 16:40
With all the contraversy of some of these replies, you'd want to be pretty sure your windscreen wasn't smashed by a small meteorite!
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Reply By: DesC - Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 18:30

Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 18:30
I recall those sorts of problems every night in all the years i lived in Bourke but they were not Hoons but sounded similar.
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Reply By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 22:48

Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 22:48
Sorry to hear that Axle but its a never-ending problem. I recall the absolute seething rage I felt when my sons bike was vandalised at the pool, he was upset I was ready to maim! Know who did it too but the police are hamstrung to a large extent. Kids down the street stole a friends bike and repainted it (with stolen paint probably) and then rode it past his house. When the wallopers were told they said they HAD TO PROVE it was theirs.......

I reckon "responsible" people should be given a 007 licence in the neighbourhood and allowed to help the gene pool out from time to time, now wouldnt that be a job.
.
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Follow Up By: Gramps - Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 22:52

Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 22:52
"now wouldnt that be a job"

Depends where you live. You could end up very lonely LOLOLOL
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 22:55

Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 22:55
Lonely..... or peaceful?
.
Time is an illusion produced by the passage of history
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Follow Up By: Gramps - Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 22:58

Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 at 22:58
Bonz,

Stop - you're making it sound too attractive :)))
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