Indigenous community wins native title of Broome

Submitted: Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 at 19:34
ThreadID: 30813 Views:2374 Replies:19 FollowUps:54
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From ABC News Online

The Broome Aboriginal community is celebrating a win after a Federal Court Judge ruled it had proved its right to native title of Broome and the surrounding area in northern Western Australia.

In a partial ruling yesterday, Federal Court Judge Ronald Merkel said the Yawuru people had proved a traditional link to the area.

The Rubibi claim dates back 10 years and covers more than 6,000 square kilometres of mainly reserves and pastoral leases.

Judge Merkel is yet to decide which areas will be excluded from the claim.

Kimberley Land Council spokesman Wayne Bergmann says it has been a long process and not without pain.

"The court process I think has been very painful for a lot of people," he said.

"I mean our senior people have been required to give evidence and the cross-examining has been in a way that we'd consider to be inappropriate and sometimes outright offensive, and watching our grandparents having to go through that has been very hard," he said.

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Reply By: Member - Willie , Epping .Syd. - Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 at 20:37

Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 at 20:37
Must be worth being cross examined a couple of times to get 6000 square klm though - even if you did own it in the first place .
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Reply By: Member - Andy Q (VIC) - Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 at 20:37

Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 at 20:37
Hey! that's fantastic news, congradulations to the Broome residents. I'll soon be able to head up there and visit some old friends
andy
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 at 22:04

Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 at 22:04
Can you expand on what is "Fantastic" about it?
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Follow Up By: Member - Andy Q (VIC) - Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 at 23:25

Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 at 23:25
Yes ' Fantastic' in the sense, "it's about time"
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 at 23:26

Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 at 23:26
ok try again

Can you expand on why its so "FANTASTIC" about it?

And why "its about time" ??
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 at 21:10

Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 at 21:10
oh joy..
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Reply By: Member - Tim F (NT) - Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 at 21:18

Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 at 21:18
They can have broome, its just one big rubbish tip anyway, looks like Broome's future is all roses now.....NOT!!
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Follow Up By: russ36 - Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 at 21:30

Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 at 21:30
tim, has broome changed dramaticly since i spent 4 yr there 15 yr ago, or is your opininion of the joint just different from mine?....just curious about the rubbish tip reference...surely nothing like fitzroy crossing with wine cask bladders and alum cans for decoration?....russ
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Reply By: Member No 1- Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 at 22:01

Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 at 22:01
there goes another spot that wont be worth visiting
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 at 22:03

Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 at 22:03
You will be charged just to use the name, let alone drive through...

RIP Broome.
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 at 22:06

Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 at 22:06
""
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Reply By: Exploder - Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 at 22:41

Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 at 22:41
I do have an opinion on native title and rules that should be implemented if you win a claim also who can make a clam but I will keep those to my-self.

I don’t disagree with it nor do I agree that you can make a claim on any part of Australia.

I especially don’t agree that you can be awarded 6000Squar k’s of land incorporating Town’s and faming properties get with the program I say.
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 00:20

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 00:20
Greg
"I don’t disagree with it nor do I agree that you can make a claim on any part of Australia"

Is it only native title or other claims

whats the difference with a mining claim on land or NP

please don't take it personally just a question

Richard
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 00:32

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 00:32
well for starters mining claims dont take up 000s of square ks and when finished are public access
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Follow Up By: Pterosaur - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 09:22

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 09:22
re : mining leases

it's really easy to get access to the vast areas of Cape York which are subject to mining lease, I DON'T think.

On the other hand, access to native title lands, while it is subject to the owner's permission, and is readily granted in my experience.

It amazes me that the same people who have no problem with asking station "owners" (the vast majority are LEASEHOLDERS) for access to or through their holdings, can't stand the idea that they may have to deal with the original occupants and owners of the land.

Racism is clearly alive and well.
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Follow Up By: Redback - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 10:25

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 10:25
Well said Pterosaur, how many lease holders won't give you access, (ie)
Swifts creek to Omeo via Bald hills!!!!!

My experience with access to indiginous communities is good too.

Baz.
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 15:13

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 15:13
I call BS a mining lease must have mining activity which is highly unlikely to take up "vast areas" - Heck there are more mines locally than anywhere else in OZ and there are no "Vast areas" taken up.
And yes I do have a problem with Pastoralists and there locked gates - they are the biggest problem round here. it is made worse that the actual running of sheep is marginally economic and they supplement there income to make it worthwhile with many stations de stocked while the station becomes a haven for feral animals
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Follow Up By: Exploder - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 21:19

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 21:19
Without going into detail, to save on figure bashing from a brief comment I made on another post.

Where the claim is made and whom it will affect.
Who is making the claim and for what and why.
How big the claim is. Like why do you need 6000s/k of land it isn’t all
What will happen to the land?

I know of a station in WA which was tuned over to Aboriginals and it’s been completely F**ked up land striped bear by goats no upkeep whatsoever compared to what it used it should be a crime.

I am not Racist or try not to be, Most are good people.

Mining leases are a hole other ball a game and nowhere near as big.

Stations, I think most are happy for you to cross there land.

I will leave it at that.
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Follow Up By: Goughy - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 17:49

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 17:49
quote: "It amazes me that the same people who have no problem with asking station "owners" (the vast majority are LEASEHOLDERS) for access to or through their holdings, can't stand the idea that they may have to deal with the original occupants and owners of the land.:unquote
I'm pretty sure that if a gazetted road goes through your block, no matter who you are, you don't have the right to deny access to anyone, as long as you stay on the gazetted road within the road reserve, this includes national parks, the lot.
its just like the rivers & creeks running through any place, no one can stop you walking/driving/paddleing/hell, cartwheeling if you want up or down the river.
private land with no road/camping/stock reserves, the owners can do what they like as far as trespassers go..
correct me if I am wrong...
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 23:45

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 23:45
Goughy
The problem is a lot of roads eg. Gt central road was not even there when ownership was given

Just because the road / track is on a map does not mean it is gazetted

Richard
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Follow Up By: Goughy - Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 09:07

Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 09:07
Richard
Your dead right, thats why I specificly mentioned gazetted road. if its not, there is no question, get permission of whoever owns/leased the land. some road reserves are there with no roads in them, it just looks like bush, but they are there. it doesn't matter whether it was there or not before ownership was given, we are always making new road reserves, usually when blocks are sub devided or sold. find someone with "map info" check it out, I bet you, without even looking or even knowing this road, the GT central rd is now a gazetted rd & is maintained by main roads or local shire council....
if you own a block of say 100 acres, & you sub devide 50ac off the back & sell it, you have to, by law, supply access to this block so that it is not land locked by private land, in other words, so they don't have to cross private land to get to their block..
we have issues all the time up here with roads, road reserves, stock routs & camping reserves, just been through a goodn' for the local fishing club & a very upset land holder.
G
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Reply By: Richard Kovac - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 00:14

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 00:14
Good to hear Willen (sorry Spinifex)

Have a good day

Richard
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Reply By: Member JD- Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 04:48

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 04:48
I think its all a load of crock...These people lived here for many years before us but they have no claim on anything...by there very discription..nomadic..dictionary explananation..NO HOME..if you have no home how can you claim title???...if I dont pay my rates..well we all no what happens yet my fathers walk on the land I live on before me...does'nt mean jack to anyone esle but me!!!!!seems to me the only mistake the Brits did was not use paramount force...or did they???in which case as I understand it wipes out all claim to anything...This country would not have things like Opera house,Harbour Bridge..etc if it was'nt for the anglo saxon input to this country...this is just a piont of veiw..nothing to do with racism..as I treat all folk the same..why should we pander to people who by there very discritpion in the dictionary is NOMADIC..means NO HOME...no home..NO CLAIM..get a job and buy your land!!!
JD
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Follow Up By: Snowy 3.0iTD - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 08:52

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 08:52
The problem is JD that the governments/courts of the best country on Earth, seem to have a habit of pampering minority groups; aboriginals, homosexuals, muslims etc, whatever happened to everyone being treated equally? Besides I am sure the aboriginals would have been so much better off if the Dutch or Spanish had have colonised this great southern land instead of the English. Call me cynical/racist if you want, but I find it rather interesting that a lot of the native title claims seem to occurr in areas of large potential wealth, tourism, mining etc, oh well theres my whinge for the day.

Regards

Snowy
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Follow Up By: Pterosaur - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 09:25

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 09:25
quote
"this is just a piont of veiw..nothing to do with racism.."

what a load of crock -- RACISM pure and simple, unadulterated and pure.
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Follow Up By: Redback - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 10:30

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 10:30
QUOTE;
I think its all a load of crock...These people lived here for many years before us but they have no claim on anything...by there very discription..nomadic..dictionary explananation..NO HOME..if you have no home how can you claim title???... END QUOTE.

Nomadic yes, but they didn't wonder all around australia only the area around Broom or as they say "my country"

Jeeezus, ya can't be serious about that comment can you.
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Follow Up By: Member JD- Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 10:44

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 10:44
Well it did'nt take long for the spiting and scratching to happen!!! Does'nt surprize me you are not allowed to have a point of view in this country...cause if you do...YOU are labled a racist!! which I am not...my family once held title to 80000 sq acres in Nthern NSW if I tried to claim this because my for father walked this land it would get frown out...say what you like..call me what you like..I dont care! THIS IS MY POINT OF VIEW ONLY..!
JD
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 10:51

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 10:51
Why are people who offer an opposing view labeled as "Racist".

In my view the people who are quick to apply such labels do so in an attempt to belittle and silence the person who offers such opposing view.
In other words they try to silence the view by laying a guilt trip on that same person.
"Racism" is such a dirty word! like pedophile and no one wants to wear those labels "Do they?"

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't we fight wars to maintain our Democratic right to hold and be able to voice an opposing view in this country with out fear of that view being oppressed by anyone?
And weren't those same wars fought to maintain equality for all Australians in all aspects of Australian life?

Why do we pamper minority groups in this country?
Well maybe if you look at the source of terrorism in the world today it almost always starts with these same types of minorities who feel poor and oppressed.
If you have a very generous welfare system that supports sections of the community then it can go a long way to silencing those feelings of oppression etc. Its hard to complain when you have a full stomach.
VKS737 - Mobile 6352 (Selcall 6352)

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Follow Up By: Redback - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 12:14

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 12:14
No malice in my comment just a quirey or question.

I look at it this way, it's no differant to the problems in Ireland, they took back what was stolen from them by repeated uprising till the Brittish Government at the time had had enough and a treaty was signed then talks began to become a free state/republic, after 30 or so years it happened.

No differant really, and i'm sure if it was some invading australia from another country now you would do the same, would you not??

Baz.

PS; the above statement is only an excample, not a dig at the English.
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Follow Up By: Redback - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 12:17

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 12:17
Sorry one differance the no force is used in native title claims
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Follow Up By: Member JD- Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 13:50

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 13:50
Anybody who dons a balaclava then proceeds to fight for their rites is a terroist! ....Like anybody who burns our flag deserves to go to prison ! and the flag which was recently burned was the wrong one..The Flag that was burnt was the Australian flag that good australian men have died for,white and black,brown..get it rite the flag they should be burning is the union jack....go figger!
JD
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 14:49

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 14:49
Member - John (Vic) posted this followup
Why are people who offer an opposing view labeled as "Racist".
---
Look at the dinosaurs name..

JD: VERY WELL PUT DUDE.

Im related to teh people that were here before abos, can I claim Native Title on them grounds?
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Follow Up By: Redback - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 14:57

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 14:57
QUOTE;
Im related to teh people that were here before abos, can I claim Native Title on them grounds? END QUOTE;

Please tell us more oh learned one and one who has come from greatness :-)))
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 16:39

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 16:39
"Racism" is such a dirty word! like pedophile and no one wants to wear those labels "Do they?"
I disagree At a previos place of work (swimming pool ) I would have the rascist tag thrown at me like confetti and I was happy to hear it as it was always the only comment a braindead d!!ckhead would shout as I curtailed his/her antisocial behavior in a community cente such as Crapping on the dunny floors, smashing windows, Punching holes in the changeroom windows, hurling abuse at young girls behind the counter,stealing and harassing mothers and babies etc etc. New staters would get upst at being called rascist but I would tell them in no uincertain terms I didnt want to work with someone to afraid to do their job and wear the tag
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Follow Up By: Pterosaur - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 18:57

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 18:57
JD - why are you upset ?

Argue a racist argument, from a racist point of view - I mean, even you recognised that - hence the disclaimer, I assume.

If you walk like a duck, talk like a duck, act like a duck why complain when someone says - there's a duck ?

If you don't like the label, then don't espouse the "philosophy", or if you like the "philosophy" then accept the label - otherwise another label might apply - hypocrite.
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Follow Up By: Member JD- Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 19:23

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 19:23
Me upset..dont think so.as I said I'm only stating a piont of view!..Its my view and I'm not backing off on it..you can try and twist this as much as you like I DO NOT CARE..when a person doesn't like your piont of view they try and discredit them..quack..quack..how gives a sh**t really..why dont you just go sit in the corner..whats wrong with you,did they face your swing set to the corner??Hypocrite..talk about scratching and biting.And by the way have a nice day ;-)
JD
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Follow Up By: Joe King - Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 17:37

Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 17:37
Pterosaur,
I was enjoying reading this thread with a lot of good points for & against till you opened your trap screaming
"RACISM, RACISM, THINK I'M GONNA CRY...
you must lead a very sheltered, boring life if you can't see someones opposing view...
people like you make me sick to the pit of my gut, YOU are the person generalising the Abo's, feeling sorry for them all, look around you if you ever get out of your shell, the abo's I see are the ones laying around the parks, drunk, abusing men, women & children who venture too close to them because they have a metho hangover or are already blind drunk by 10am, but there are some whites in there as well...
pretty bad when your kids are too scared to go to the park in case there is some drunk lay-about ready to abuse them...
look what all our handouts have done, great isn't it, I DARE YOU to tell me I am wrong.
when every one has to work for what they get, then equallity starts....
If you walk like an idiot, TALK LIKE AN IDIOT, act like an Idiot , everyone will say, look there goes an IDIOT!!!!!!!
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Follow Up By: Pterosaur - Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 18:35

Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 18:35
Joe King,

you are wrong
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Follow Up By: Joe King - Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 19:37

Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 19:37
ha ha ha, your funny...
so lots of abo's don't lay around the parks drunk??
and all of them are upstanding, hard working citizens??
is this true???
I eagerly await your reply...
JK
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Reply By: Vivid Adventures - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 08:33

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 08:33
"The Rubibi claim dates back 10 years and covers more than 6,000 square kilometres of mainly reserves and pastoral leases."

Anyway, I don't think it is anything to get too hung up on - Pastoral Leases have always been that - leases.

Anyways, as a Lada owner you might like some shiny wheels - eBay item 8037840945

Ciao for now
Andrew.
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Follow Up By: Spinifex - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 10:08

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 10:08
Thanks mate. Will go have a butchers
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Reply By: mfewster - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 11:08

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 11:08
Australian aboriginal people were never nomadic. They moved across their traditional land area to utilise water, food etc on a seasonal basis. The indigenous plants/fauna weren't suitable for domestication. "Nomadic"was a convenient legal category so that settlers could declare the land "terra nullius", which legally meant the inhabitants had no right to the land and conveniently enabled Australian settlers to avoid 'treaties, defining indigenous rights etc. The "landrights" legislation enables the situation to be addressed.
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Reply By: Member - Collyn R (WA) - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 11:36

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 11:36
I am a Broome resident and live on one of the most significant areas of land (in Aboriginal terms) in the Kimberley. We have Aboriginal communities living on either side of us.

As with most Broome - residents we totally support this Native Title Claim and congratulate the Yawuru people.

Amongst Yuwaru plans is to have the entire coastline (from Crab Creek) to way up north declared a National Park.

It is not well know that the local Aboriginal people have had a contract to maintain the coastline for many years - and recently won the Premier's Award for doing so.

No pastoral land up here is 'owned'. It is all on 99-year leases.

'Civilization' is not an absolute. Ours tends to be measured in monetary terms. Aboriginal people do not do this. This does not make them better or worse - just different.

To most of Australia's non-indigenous people a Toyota Landcruiser is something valued for what it is - not what it is for.

To most Aboriginal people it is one of many alternative ways of visiting Uncle Fred.

Can anyone really say which view is the healthier?

Curiously, one usually finds that people with strong anti-Aboriginal views have never met or personally know any.

Consider this.

At the graduation ceremony at Broome's Notre Dame Uni last year - of the 80 or so graduates, over two-thirds were local Aboriginal women who had finished their BA and, in a few cases, their MA degrees. It's odds on that at most times there are more local Aboriginal people with degrees shopping in the local Coles than tourists with degrees.

Also this: I studied Aboriginal languages at Notre Dame Uni: and many people express surprise that I know some Yawuru and Bardi. Yet most Aboriginal people I know speak three or four often non-connected languages (plus English and often also Kriol). Many of these languages have grammatical structures as complex as Latin. I'm the ignorant one.

I am saddened to see 'I'm not a racist but . . .' comments on this Forum.
Collyn Rivers
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Follow Up By: Vivid Adventures - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 12:06

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 12:06
Thank you Collyn.

I appreciate your contribution of some real information to the forum (yet again).
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Follow Up By: Member - Andy Q (VIC) - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 17:28

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 17:28
Yes! Thank you Collyn, Your contribution is welcomed and I appreciate all you've said
andy
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Follow Up By: Redback - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 18:24

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 18:24
At last someone who knows and understands, thanks Collyn.

Baz.
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Follow Up By: Pterosaur - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 19:00

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 19:00
Was beginning to despair - thanks for taking the time to make these points Collyn

Terry
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Reply By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 14:53

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 14:53
Generally I'm a little slow on the pick up on these things. I've been following this phenomena since Mabo and consider myself to have a reasonable understanding of the issues involved. My difficulty is in understanding what has really been achieved and for what purpose. There is a whole lot of legal considerations in the determination of Native Tile and their application, such as burden of proof on connection etc and the rights of other interests. From this point of view it can be seen as a significant legal statement for the people involved. However, it has not and will not change their way of life or where they live so it may also be regarded as just a moral victory in the face of so many historical wrongs.

My concern is this, if it is for things to continue on as before then we can argue that it was a great moral victory - but if things are going to change then the purpose can be seen for something much more than that. My suspicion is that our way of life (travelling to remote areas) is under threat. There is reasonable evidence to support this concern but I hope to be proven wrong over time.

Health permitting, I have a good 20 years of remote travel left in me and feel that within this time access to remote parts of Australia will change in such a way that I will not be able to see places that were once accessible. My kids and grandkids will have to do with a tour or some of my old photos.

Kind regards
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Reply By: Des Lexic - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 15:17

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 15:17
Spinifex submit's post.

Winds everyone up

sit's back having a great laugh

It's payback time Well done mate!!
(not being sarcastic, just putting myself in your shoes) lol
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Follow Up By: Vivid Adventures - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 15:24

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 15:24
usual Spinifex contribition

snide sniping.
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Follow Up By: Willem - Friday, Feb 17, 2006 at 17:45

Friday, Feb 17, 2006 at 17:45
Not at all Mr Lexic

I was just relating a news item I had seen somewhere and went searching for it. That was the news report word for word.

Being related to my colonial past I can only but wonder where all of this will go. History repeats itself and we are contributing to a feudal system of the future. Not just with Native Title but with Corporations owning vast tracts of land. Maybe in the not too distant future the landscape will change. I can only be thankful that I have lived in an era between the great wars where I have enjoyed a lot of freedom.

In the end it all comes down to money and we are taught that Money is the Root of all Evil.

Vivid,

Maybe you should call your company Hazy Adventures as there are none so blind..............
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 at 11:20

Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 at 11:20
Saint Paul wrote:

"The _love_ of money is the root of all evil"

And he may well have been correct.

Mike Harding
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Reply By: Member -Dodger - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 15:28

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 15:28
Whilst I agree with Colin and support the decision considering that it will not harm Broome the township.
I do have reservations about the coast becoming a national park as the people who actualy make decisions on these parks are in major cities and do not really have a sense of what the area is all about.
I have seen many blunders from the likes of C.A.L.M. and N.P.& W. L services.
These people are under staffed under funded with more given to them without the recources to manage these areas.

Like someone else has said often to disagree with a policy can have bad remifications such as the racism slur.

Just My thoughts on the subject.
I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.

Cheers Dodg.

Lifetime Member
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AnswerID: 155368

Reply By: Member - Collyn R (WA) - Friday, Feb 17, 2006 at 16:29

Friday, Feb 17, 2006 at 16:29
Snowy
You are correct in stating that many Native Title Claims are in areas perceived as 'rich'. You may however be attributing wrong motives and, with respect it is not always true.

The starting point is that Aboriginal people have a spiritual connection with 'country' that totally transcends any Western parallel. It is almost literally a mother. To be removed from this, or denied access is a huge deprival. A second point is that Aboriginal people have no concept of 'ownership' of land. They are custodians of land (country).

Coming to your main point: and using Victoria as an excellent example, the Aborigonal people there tended the land very carefully. In so doing, and unbeknown to them, they ironically created what in effect was perfect land for sheep farming. This was recognised by early pastoralists who repaid them by 'dispersing' them.

By and large this happened all over Australia. Land that had been carefully tended was seized.

Why had it been carefully tended?

Well, contrary to general belief Aboriginals are not nomadic. Rather they live/lived in extended family groups within the confines of tribally recognised boundaries (often quite small) but from time to time moved to various parts of that area to enable the country to 'recover' (particularly seasonally).

By and large land that very same land that Aboriginal family had cared for was the very same land that the pastoralists sought. And of course took.

As Native Title is predicated on a provable link with the country concerned it must almost by definition be land that was and still is 'rich.'

The reason that this is so little understood is that Aboriginal history is virtually unknown to all but a small number of historians - and people like my wife and I who study it. Fortunately we live in Broome - and Broome is one of the very few places on earth that has a university that teaches it.

The local Aboriginal people approached Notre Dame (in Fremantle) about ten years ago to open a Broome Campus. There to the local people's and the uni's credit, Aboriginal Studies is a compulsory core subject for anyone studying there for a degree (any degree).

It is also available as a full degree subject at both BA and MA level - and I am most way through auditing the entirety of this course.

Your view on Native Title (and similar matters) is not uncommon - but with every respect - it is founded on lack of knowledge that causes people to make what may be incorrect assumptions.

This is not intended in any way as a put-down. The subject is not touched on by any except a tiny handful of schools - so few know what actually happened.

Trust this may help clear up a few misconceptions
Collyn Rivers
AnswerID: 155588

Follow Up By: stano - Sunday, Feb 19, 2006 at 20:03

Sunday, Feb 19, 2006 at 20:03
Great to hear the well modulated tones of reason and thoughtfulness, Collyn R! People who claim that they can have a point of view which supports those who are racist without being racist themselves - " it's just my point of view" etc. - are sadly ignorant. And ignorance can be evil. Empathy is the key to it.
Stano.
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FollowupID: 409851

Reply By: Gramps - Friday, Feb 17, 2006 at 16:58

Friday, Feb 17, 2006 at 16:58
OK, so the indigenous community has been granted native title to another 6000 sq km. What's the problem?

It's not as if they've been granted title to the whole damn continent. Someone more knowledgeable may care to enlighten us on what percentage of our land mass is actually currently under native title, not claimed, but actually approved. We may face some restrictions, we may not. It's a very small price to pay.

It's pointless whinging about it after the event.
AnswerID: 155596

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 at 23:03

Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 at 23:03
It's not as if they've been granted title to the whole damn continent.

Give it time...
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FollowupID: 409762

Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Sunday, Feb 19, 2006 at 00:46

Sunday, Feb 19, 2006 at 00:46
Hahaha Truckie, it's the way of the world now.
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FollowupID: 409776

Reply By: revhead307 - Friday, Feb 17, 2006 at 18:39

Friday, Feb 17, 2006 at 18:39
Broome has felt the damaging effects of native title claims for a number of years.

Housing and rental prices are ridiculous, as the surrounding areas are subject to native title which delays/restricts expansion.

So dont tell me it does not disadvantage Broome.

check out www.broomerealestate.com.au
$300 - 500 per week to rent a house, lovely.

Rev
AnswerID: 155613

Follow Up By: Member - Collyn R (WA) - Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 at 10:47

Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 at 10:47
revhead 307

You overlook that well over 50% of Broome Shire's population is indigenous. Should have some say in the way others may wish to live and/or change the town. By what right do you feel changes should be forced onto them?

By no means that all development has been halted - a fair bit of agreement has been reached between Rubibi (the Aboriginal groups concerned) and the Shire re exchange of land in the centre of Broome (even during the the Claim - which was substantially held up by the State Govt - not Rubibi).

I remind you that, the during the award of Native Title further up the coast recently - the Judge stated to the effect that 'it is a disgrace this Claim was disputed - the right to (this) Native Title Claim is obvious'. Hold-ups are not necessarily of the claimant's making.

The high increase in prices you talk of happened when Lord McAlpine 'gentrifred' the town. On balance I think he did good (in that he saved the houses of old Broome. But in doing so he quadrupled their prices in just a few years.

THAT was when prices escalated. It happened years before Native Title even existed. We bought our 10-acre land north of Broome in 1998. It had been sold 10 years previously for 15% MORE (in the McAlpine era).

Since the (Rubibi) Native Title Claim was made a few years ago, the increase in Broome house prices less than of Fremantle, and in line with many other towns in the south of WA.
Collyn Rivers
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FollowupID: 409684

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 at 12:59

Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 at 12:59
"You overlook that well over 50% of Broome Shire's population is indigenous. Should have some say in the way others may wish to live and/or change the town. "

Im not sure if your saying cause over 50% of Broomes shire is abos, that they should have more of a say in what goes on - is that right?

Beauty, 90% of sydney is white, lets go clean out Everly Street today.
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FollowupID: 409708

Follow Up By: Member - Collyn R (WA) - Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 at 13:45

Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 at 13:45
Truckster
Why do you assume 90% of Sydney's people think as guardia like you?
Collyn Rivers
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FollowupID: 409712

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 at 23:02

Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 at 23:02
You didnt answer the question did you?
Are you saying that since more than 50% are abos they should have more say in what happens..?

What makes you think that Sydneysiders, and inparticularly people who live or work near Everley street ARENT sick of the crap that goes down there?

Have you personally ever been past the place? While driving trucks back in 80's I had to deliver to the rail yards there. You would never stop at the shops and leave your truck for a second.

Police would attend 50 odd calls there a day, admit that was back in 97ish, and guess what - THEY ARENT EVEN ALLOWED IN THE SLUM/STREET!

I was just carrying on with your theory of stupidity of %ages.
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FollowupID: 409761

Follow Up By: Member - Collyn R (WA) - Sunday, Feb 19, 2006 at 10:38

Sunday, Feb 19, 2006 at 10:38
Truckster
Do I know Everly St?

Well yes - almost certainly much better than you do: for many years (in the mid and late 1980s) I had a friend who lived in the upper end of Everly Street (about 400 metres from The Block) and spent many weekends in her house there. Never once did I feel or was threatened.

I am aware that the area is now less functional (and that your desire to see it moved is already underway) but back then my experience was quite different from yours. Could that be through different and possibly pre-conceived expectations - that you reveal by using the derogatory term 'abo'?

My 'stupid' proposition that people should have a say in matters that affect them is known as 'democracry'.
Collyn Rivers


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FollowupID: 409804

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Sunday, Feb 19, 2006 at 18:52

Sunday, Feb 19, 2006 at 18:52
Much better than I do? LOL, dont be too sure. One of our best mates who was a scum junike used to live there. But there was no way on this earth that we were going to go near that place. People arent safe there. The so called people that live there have zero respect for anyone else - dont believe it, just go back there and have a look. I also worked out of the rail yards for years. I know how it was, how it turned, and what it is now.

"Less functional?"
LMAO! Trying to be kind to the place I see. LOL.. ROTFLMAO!

The only thing you could do with it is drive a dozen D9's through the place, its not even a toilet. Car shells on the roadside, people carjacked going through the place, peoples cars smashed parked near the place, etc. Yes, It is a scum hole. Then when people who deserve to be arrested, yes, lets have a RIOT! What a place. I could say more, but I digress

"Could that be through different and possibly pre-conceived expectations - that you reveal by using the derogatory term 'abo'"
Quick, you better scream racism, your running out of steam fast.

Derogatory term? No its not, its like calling an Australian an Aussie, or a American a Yank, or a British person a Brit. Its called shortening a name, or a nickname.

"My 'stupid' proposition that people should have a say in matters that affect them is known as 'democracry'."
But when white people have more say, its howled down as RACISM, riots in the streets the works. So there goes your 'democracry' out the window...
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FollowupID: 409843

Follow Up By: stano - Sunday, Feb 19, 2006 at 20:26

Sunday, Feb 19, 2006 at 20:26
Trucker, if you can't hear that the word 'Abo' has an insulting tone to it if fear that you are not a good listener.
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FollowupID: 409860

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Sunday, Feb 19, 2006 at 20:34

Sunday, Feb 19, 2006 at 20:34
Complex area:

I had dinner in Lygon St last week with a lady of Italian origin who referred to herself as a "Wog". Being an ex. "Pom" I was initially taken aback by this but soon realised the terms don't matter - as someone else said - "It's the colour of your heart"

We must take great care not to be too politically correct otherwise... we'll soon start banning cartoons we don't like... won't we?

Mike Harding
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FollowupID: 409862

Follow Up By: Member - Collyn R (WA) - Sunday, Feb 19, 2006 at 21:30

Sunday, Feb 19, 2006 at 21:30
Mike
It's surely a matter of context and especially intent.

As one at the receiving end for a decade or three - it's interesting how repricocating often offends!

Sooner keep out of the cartoon issue - except that its hard to understand other's views and beliefs through one's own word view filter.

To a substantial part of the world population two bits of wood nailed together have huge significance - to a a heap of others it could be simply kindling. The difference is only pre-conceived concepts. It is surely not rational?

Need to get back to batteries soon!
Collyn Rivers

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FollowupID: 409871

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Sunday, Feb 19, 2006 at 23:47

Sunday, Feb 19, 2006 at 23:47
Careful Mike, dont bring Logic into this.

I know plenty of 'wogs' that call themselves wogs! They arent affraid of it like the do gooders.

ALso have a mate Patto (am I allowed to call him that, wont offend anyone?) who calls himself an abo, and is proud of it.

Have a mate in bleep ney that had a Cortina with a 351 Boss in it with MADWOG # plates.
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FollowupID: 409885

Follow Up By: Joombi - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 09:18

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 09:18
"derogatory term 'abo'?"
Jeeez, i was one of 4 white kids in my school of 60 or so students, we got called "whites, whitey's, Anglo's, Milky's & other stuff, It never worried me because I was as proud of what I was as they were of what they were & I never thought it racist either, you were either Black or white, thats what life was...
except for the Jap kid, he copped it from all of us
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FollowupID: 409907

Reply By: Hairy - Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 at 00:58

Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 at 00:58
While out visiting a friend a few years ago(an Arente traditional owner) explained to my kids that the block of land they were playing on was thiers as much as anybodies. Acording to aboriginal law anybody born North of the gap and between Emily and Fens gap were classed as a Yeperenye kid ( this includes Alice Springs hospital). There is nothing in aboriginal law about colour!!!!!
AnswerID: 155675

Follow Up By: Member - Collyn R (WA) - Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 at 10:54

Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 at 10:54
Hairy
Aboriginal tribal groups are primarily defined by 'language'. As you say colour is not a criteria.

Thus Bardi people are those who speak the Bardi language - or whose ancestors spoke Bardi. In the more traditional areas, such as up here, most live in extended families of 50-500 people.
Collyn
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FollowupID: 409688

Reply By: Member - Collyn R (WA) - Sunday, Feb 19, 2006 at 21:03

Sunday, Feb 19, 2006 at 21:03
Stano
I believe a great deal of the 'problem' is that Aboriginal history has never been taught in Australian schools. Hardly anyone from politicians sideways know anything factual about the history, the Law and the Culture. Almost everything that Australians believe is based on hearsay, misunderstanding, and sometimes just plain bigotry. They cannot be blaimed for the former two.

My wife and I are extremely fortunate to live in Broome as it has the the only uni campus in Australia where Aboriginal studies is a core subject for any degree here (including for the predominantly indigenous student body). For the past four years I have audited that syllabus. My wife has a High Distinction in the subject, backed up by a couple of associated degrees, and will be shortly be working on a higher post-graduate (research) degree in this area.

The experience, plus living very close to Aboriginal communities (we have Yawuru communities on either side of us) has changed my thinking. In a nutshell I do not now believe that any group of people of any background would have survived what happened in substantially any other way.

That there are problems are obvious. But to see Australians blame the victims for the results of others' two-century mendacity, and often murderous actions, is sad.

I need to say to any Aboriginal members of this forum that I do not presume to speak on Aboriginal behalf nor give any but my own thoughts on what happened. I'm simply a guadia presenting his own view based on Kimberley living and experience (mainly with Gularabulu and Worara people).
Collyn Rivers

AnswerID: 155895

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