Got a question for ya all.....

Submitted: Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 17:23
ThreadID: 30842 Views:2078 Replies:11 FollowUps:20
This Thread has been Archived
When we want to travel through certain Aboriginal properties, we must go through the process of getting permits, and ensuring that we don't exceed vehicle numbers stated, carry no alcohol, etc., depending upon the areas visited.

If I am an Aboriginal, from another area, like... not a local dude, do I still have to do this, or just rock up?

I am guessing, I would just rock up, unannounced, surely...

When I was at Warrakurna last year, there were three sorry camps in progress, and the population had swelled to an astounding number of people, all from afar, like, a LONG way afar (Darwin, Queensland ). I am wondering, if permits were arranged, for these HUNDREDS of people, trickling in, to attend these camps.

So, what's the go?

Wolfie

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Reply By: turbopete - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 17:30

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 17:30
an aboriginal probably dosent need a permit,
AnswerID: 155393

Reply By: Otherwise - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 17:30

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 17:30
Aboriginal people are excempted from getting permits to travel through other aboriginal lands.
AnswerID: 155394

Follow Up By: Lone Wolf - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 17:38

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 17:38
Well, that clears it up.

The massive influx whilst we were there, had drained all the local resources, and it was evident that no real planning had taken place, whereby if permits were issued, then numbers could have been forecast, and extra supplies brought in.

Wolfie
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FollowupID: 409353

Reply By: Member - David 0- Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 17:32

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 17:32
It really depends on the local communities. However, it is most likely that if visiting and not traversing then you do so as a guest. Culturally there are and have been for a long time ritualised processes for requesting access to another groups land, and for thanking them for such access. Much of the annoyance the aboriginal people had with Buke and Will's Fort Wils ws to do with the long stay, uninvited, at Cooper Creek, a recognised valuable assett that had long been shared by different groups.
AnswerID: 155397

Reply By: revhead307 - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 17:35

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 17:35
You have it all wrong wolfie,

your refering to the rule for US...not THEM.

like in Port Hedland where they'll let an indigenous person out of jail to receive their spearing. As if the person isnt around (skips state or is in jail) for their spearing within a certain time (eg 12 months) then...the persons brother or father or uncle etc etc get the spearing instead.

all I know....is SOMEONE is gonna get a spearing...

so the cops do the 'right thing'...and let it happen. This ive been told from a cop whos done a decade in rural and remote WA stations.

Rev

AnswerID: 155398

Follow Up By: revhead307 - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 17:39

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 17:39
Tho its a facetious point you raise. I dont see why an aboriginal would need a permit to travel through another tribes lands..

Its just not how the whole things works son.
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FollowupID: 409355

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 18:21

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 18:21
Ah, revhead307 - clearly, you have not visited Europe.

Mike Harding
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FollowupID: 409373

Follow Up By: Jimbo - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 23:09

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 23:09
"your refering to the rule for US...not THEM."

As long as the US and THEM mentality is perpetuated problems will never be solved.

Very Sad.

Jim.
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FollowupID: 409428

Follow Up By: Goughy - Friday, Feb 17, 2006 at 14:40

Friday, Feb 17, 2006 at 14:40
thats right Jim, so why do I as an Australian, need a permit to travel "anywhere" in "AUSTRALIA"
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, Feb 17, 2006 at 16:49

Friday, Feb 17, 2006 at 16:49
To be quite honest .... I would rather not be let out of jail for a spearing.
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FollowupID: 409585

Follow Up By: Jimbo - Friday, Feb 17, 2006 at 20:32

Friday, Feb 17, 2006 at 20:32
Goughy,

There are many places in Australia that you are not allowed into at all.

Do you you allow open access to your land? I'm going to deal fairly harshly with anyone who trespasses on my property.

Owners of land have a right to decide who they let onto their land. That they are black and live in large groups (as they always have) on THEIR land doesn't make it any less property than your, or my, backyard.

Are you getting it?
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FollowupID: 409624

Follow Up By: Goughy - Friday, Feb 17, 2006 at 23:30

Friday, Feb 17, 2006 at 23:30
Jim, I know there are "many places in Australia that you are not allowed into at all" I asked why "us" need a permit & the other "them" (from other tribes) don't, Aren't we all Aussies?, I agree about the "us & Them" comment you made, but who is doing it, "us" are being told we need a permit to go on a gazetted road in a road reserve through "their" land.
if that worked that way for the "us" only around here, station owners would be locked in to their propertys or spend half a day on the phone or driving miles out of their way to the homesteads aquiring permits to go through their next door neighbours places via a gazetted road to get to town to do their shopping... do you get my point???
I'm not talking about cutting someones fence here & go charging through their house block, 5 acre/20 acre/600 acre place, setting up camp & staying for a week, I'm talking about road & camping reserves & stock routes that go through thousands of acres.
you will also find it is fact there are different rules, they include the hunting rights, 2% house loans, free legal representation & that is just an example of the laws for Aboriginal & Torres Strait Islanders under Australian law, they also have their tribal laws, which is what Revhead307 was originally talking about...
if I had 20,000 acres of great fishing, sight seeing & camping spots in a remote area, local government would be quite welcome to cut a road reserve right through my property for any one to get access to these spots like a lot of the stations do up here...
take this how you like, my murrie mates know where I stand on racism & they agree....
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FollowupID: 409658

Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 at 14:44

Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 at 14:44
QUOTE: "Do you you allow open access to your land?"

NO, but I pay rates & maintain it!
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FollowupID: 409719

Reply By: Member - Andy Q (VIC) - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 17:39

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 17:39
I'm presuming you've already worked out the answer (and probably before you posted the question), really! provocative! how many rises do you think you'll get eh!
andy
AnswerID: 155400

Follow Up By: Lone Wolf - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 17:49

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 17:49
Could be construed as such.

I was wanting to know, how planning, policing, and infrastructure copes, with what appears to be transient travel, which is spasmodic.

When we arrived at Kalka, we had to wait outside of the community, whilst one person went in, and organised things. this took about half of an hour.

At Amata, we just rocked up, and that was all there was to it.

Seems like some areas are more sensitive than others, and I was wondering if it was the same for all and sundry.

We had permits, and had to follow the rules, which we did.

Wolfie
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FollowupID: 409361

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 18:00

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 18:00
Actually it seems a perfectly reasonable question to me - one I had never thought of and am interested to hear, what I assume is, the correct answer above. Or is it no longer acceptable to ask "difficult" questions?

Now: on another thread about Broome - there were instant allegations of racism but I don't think anyone would argue that Aborigines from (say) Broome have much in common with Aborigines from (say) Victoria - my understanding is that the tribes lived quite separately and, indeed, were hostile to one-another from time-to-time, as tribal cultures usually are. So I must say this does look rather like a decision based purely on racial grounds. Perhaps someone could explain why it isn't?

Mike Harding
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FollowupID: 409367

Reply By: Otherwise - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 17:40

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 17:40
Do a Google and go and check Aboriginal Affairs Planning Authority Act 1972. The law is in there.
AnswerID: 155401

Follow Up By: Lone Wolf - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 17:52

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 17:52
Most of these pages are WA based, but I get the picture, well, sort of...

Cheers

Wolfie
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FollowupID: 409362

Follow Up By: Des Lexic - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 18:01

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 18:01
Otherwise, I do like your method of Parambulation. It's a 4wheeler too.
Pity it's not Rosey in colour
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FollowupID: 409368

Follow Up By: Footloose - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 18:04

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 18:04
Mate, all aboriginal communities are different. Just like all white places. I can rock on down to the surf club in thongs no worries. But I've been asked to put my jacket back on in a toffee nosed resteurant because I was "embarrassing the other patrons" (no I'm not the Hunchback of Notre Dame). I look at it as a matter of courtesy. I wouldnt like a convoy of 4wds camping in my backyard without permission, why should anyone else ?
Personally I find anything that makes a landholder happy usually works for me also :))
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FollowupID: 409370

Follow Up By: Otherwise - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 18:09

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 18:09
Des Lecix

WTF are you talking about?
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FollowupID: 409371

Reply By: Member - Luxoluk - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 18:13

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 18:13
Raises the question in my mind that if any Aboriginal person can enter another groups Aboriginal lands without a permit why should we be discriminated against purely on the grounds of race. (if that is the case??) We are a signatory to the United Nations convention on discrimination and it is from this convention that our state based discrimination laws are drawn and given effect. The USA and South Africa had areas also that were limited to skin color and we protested heartedly against these essentially racial discrimination policies. Raises the issue for me of the goose and the gander!! Just my thoughts
AnswerID: 155406

Follow Up By: Otherwise - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 18:42

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 18:42
I had an interesting letter from a legal person once stating that I would most likely not appreciate traffic through my back yard by aboriginal people just as they would not like it for me to access their back yard(albeit 20,000 square kilkometres in size and a gazetted through road passing through) without due permission.

We can go round and round in circles apportioning blame and calling others racists etc until the cows come home. Everyone has an opinion on this.

An interesting program on SBS not so long ago said that RACE was invented by the Americans a while back(100 or so years ago) and others such as Hitler in the 1930's and the South African Government of 1948 took it on board to further their own ideology.

In the programs opinion there was actually no such thing as RACE. We are all the same.

I doubt if it has been tested yet but we do have a Racial Vilification Act here in Australia don't we? No doubt they will be a bylaw or alteration to the various acts covering Native Title etc.

One has to be a learned person to get around legally these days or on the other hand, just not care and do your own thing.

An opinion
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FollowupID: 409382

Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 21:29

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 21:29
Absaluuuuuuuuuute crap otherwise race was not invented by the yanks. if you are christion you would believe it was invented by god (tower of babel) but it gos back much further nd is much deeper than the cafe latte city dwellers would believe it is not just indeginous vs whites. Heck the biggest race riots locally would put aussies vs lebbos to shame it is in fact black vs black eg morapai vs the displaced northetrn aboriginals by floods. And lets not even mention the black vs black race riots at Mt Magnet and Leonora. No otherwise stick to the city and bury our head in the sand coz it doesnt happen that way out here
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FollowupID: 409412

Follow Up By: Otherwise - Friday, Feb 17, 2006 at 08:11

Friday, Feb 17, 2006 at 08:11
Ahhhh...the man from out the west vents his spleen once again

Have you ever had a Café Latte?

C'mon Davoe. Never drink and post. Your words!!!
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FollowupID: 409465

Reply By: Darian (SA) - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 18:55

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 18:55
Just remember that politics (Federal mainly) is a much more powerful force than justice or fairness - enormous resources can be brought into play, to see that political agendas take precedence over all - the media is full of the evidence, every day of our lives.
AnswerID: 155417

Reply By: Brew69(SA) - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 20:33

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 20:33
Cheaper and more effective than any permits will be a ctn of beer of your choice.
AnswerID: 155436

Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 at 16:59

Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 at 16:59
And a gunny of red and a square bear shared lets ya go anywhere !
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FollowupID: 409729

Reply By: toohey. - Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 23:03

Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 at 23:03
as my darl'n freind gypsy from wello told me, it's the colour of ya' hart.
cheers toohey
AnswerID: 155466

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Friday, Feb 17, 2006 at 07:29

Friday, Feb 17, 2006 at 07:29
And never a truer word was spoken.

Mike Harding
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FollowupID: 409460

Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Friday, Feb 17, 2006 at 23:42

Friday, Feb 17, 2006 at 23:42
OK, OK, I'm going to take the bait and pose another related question.

Do any of the "Coorie" people need to have a Desert Parks Pass in their posession if they venture into any of the "mandated" areas?
Bill


I'm diagonally parked in a parallel Universe!

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AnswerID: 155660

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