All Large 4WD tyres to be made Illegal in OZ

Submitted: Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 14:23
ThreadID: 30956 Views:6567 Replies:47 FollowUps:126
This Thread has been Archived
It's been a long time coming - but its finally time to put it on the table.

I was up at Gembrook (VIC) a few weeks ago - in a friends 4WD with large tyres and noticed the damage being done to tracks because of large tyre size and irresponsible 4WDing. It’s practically impossible to 4WD on these tracks with standard 31" tyres now (as I used to be able to do only a few years ago).

Enough is enough - no wonder the anti-4WD brigade is growing so quickly - these large tyres are being used as a weapon against the 4WD community by irresponsible 4WDers. We should take that weapon away from them before the privilege of being able to 4WD at all is taken from all of us.

Let’s face it 99% of the vehicles with large tyres fitted are technically already illegal to drive on and off the road anyway. It’s time to make them illegal to sell, and to get the police in the bush to start defecting vehicles using them (for repeat offenders, vehicles should be impounded).

Help save what we have left of this beautiful part of our country by shunning those who use large tyres, and by encouraging others to do the same.

-myfourby
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 14:28

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 14:28
"Let’s face it 99% of the vehicles with large tyres fitted are technically already illegal to drive on and off the road anyway."

If this is the case then the cops will deal with them "On the Road" getting to and from Gembrook or wherever they are going.
VKS737 - Mobile 6352 (Selcall 6352)

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message
Classifieds: Water Tank 55 Litre

AnswerID: 155990

Follow Up By: myfourby - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 14:34

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 14:34
Unfortunately the man power or motivation isn’t in place to see that this happens – that’s why we end up with a chopped up mess rather than 4WD tracks.

-myfourby
0
FollowupID: 409980

Reply By: Member - 'Lucy' - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 15:32

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 15:32
Myfourby, you are the 'man'

Couldn't agree more.

These fuel guzzling, tractor tired, 'electric christmas trees' need to be eliminated ASAP for the good of all concerned.

AnswerID: 155998

Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 22:01

Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 22:01
electric christmas tree? sounds like a Troopy
.
Time is an illusion produced by the passage of history
.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Moderator

0
FollowupID: 410866

Reply By: ExplorOz Team - Michelle - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 15:41

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 15:41
myfourby - I'm just curious as to what would be the classification of "large 4WD tyres"? What is large on a Suzuki, is not large on a Land Cruiser... to make the actual tyre illegal to sell would require the seller to know what vehicle its going to be put on. Not all tyres are sold "fitted" so in lies the issue of how this could be policed?
Michelle Martin
Marketing & Customer Support
I.T. Beyond Pty Ltd / ExplorOz

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Moderator

AnswerID: 156002

Follow Up By: Member -Dodger - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 15:48

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 15:48
I was underthe impression that tyres that were wider than what is on the vehicle placard were ilegal.

Please explain???????
I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.

Cheers Dodg.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 409995

Follow Up By: Member - David 0- Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 15:59

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 15:59
I've seen many a tyre fitter refuse to fit tyres that aren't on the placard. They are keen to cover their "duty of care."

0
FollowupID: 409996

Follow Up By: ExplorOz Team - Michelle - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 16:03

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 16:03
Yes I would expect they would. But the issue is that you can't stop the buyer putting bigger tyres on another vehicle. And you can't stop this by banning the sale of the bigger tyres outright as they just might be necessary for the tractor, F250 or whatever! I don't see any merit in attempting to ban the sale of such tyres.
Michelle Martin
Marketing & Customer Support
I.T. Beyond Pty Ltd / ExplorOz

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Moderator

0
FollowupID: 409998

Follow Up By: Member - David 0- Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 16:12

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 16:12
I agree, too difficult to enforce, and the placard system, ADRs, road rules etc are already a means of control.
0
FollowupID: 410003

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 16:13

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 16:13
Dodger.
You can get tires up to certain sizes Engineered for the vehicle. In QLD you cant.

The new regs that are coming out will allow upto 35's on patrols LEGALLY!
:D
:D
:D:
D
:D
0
FollowupID: 410004

Follow Up By: myfourby - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 08:53

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 08:53
Michelle - you have a good point. The idea of banning the larger tyres was really directed at those large enough to damage tracks to a point where more standard vehicles (ie. the majority) can no longer pass.

It is not an ideal solution - however - education can only go so far. I'm sure a lot of people with oversized 4WD tyres drive responsibly - however there are a minority that are not. We all must suffer the pain of losing larger tyres before we lose the privilege of 4WDing for good.

You are right - there would be nothing stopping someone with a GQ buying tyres for someone with a Suzuki - however to make it harder for people is the first step to stopping this destructive behaviour. A similar analogy could be made of guns - they have be banned (except by permit) because a minority were using them as a weapon - these tyres are being used as a weapon against the 4WD community - because they are threatening to take away our ability to 4WD.

-myfourby

P.S. - David O - "the placard system, ADRs, road rules etc are already a means of control" - if this was the case then why are our tracks becoming such a chopped up mess. It's time to get serious.
0
FollowupID: 410244

Follow Up By: Member - David 0- Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:20

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:20
A means of control does not equal control. My point is why introduce another means of control when the old means of control is broken. Why not simply fix the old means of control. ie enforce the law. Unless the track is on private (not commonwealth land) the law should be enforceable.
0
FollowupID: 410253

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 14:09

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 14:09
Harold Scruby posted this followup

>>> The idea of banning the larger tyres was really directed at those large enough to damage tracks to a point where more standard vehicles (ie. the majority) can no longer pass.

Hummers come standard with 37inch tires, F250s come with 35's standard - there goes your theory. or do we ban them too?
0
FollowupID: 410309

Follow Up By: Utemad - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 18:17

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 18:17
Pssssssssssst.........Truckster..............our F250s have 265/75 16.............I won't tell Myfourby though :-)
0
FollowupID: 410360

Follow Up By: Utemad - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 18:49

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 18:49
"P.S. - David O - "the placard system, ADRs, road rules etc are already a means of control" - if this was the case then why are our tracks becoming such a chopped up mess. It's time to get serious."

Ha Ha he wants the cops to deal with illegal sized tyres and he runs 31in on a Hilux ROFLMAO
0
FollowupID: 410370

Follow Up By: Member - David 0- Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 19:05

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 19:05
Utemad, as I said above it provides the means, but it is not being enforced.

As I said why introduce another means of control, if it is just as poorly enforced, then you have two crap solutions to a problem. Banning isn't the answer.

In any case I am not convinced that large tyres are causing the problems. People driving without due care, and poor choice of tyre pressure, poor training and skills are probably to blame.

The damage to dunes I see in the Simpson due to people not deflating tyres drives me nuts, I am sure it is the same on these tracks.

0
FollowupID: 410372

Follow Up By: Utemad - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 19:33

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 19:33
Sorry David 0. That was aimed at Myfourby not you. Your name was just in the quote. How can he talk about the evils of oversize tyres when he himself drives on oversize tyres?

Myfourby "You are right - there would be nothing stopping someone with a GQ buying tyres for someone with a Suzuki - however to make it harder for people is the first step to stopping this destructive behaviour."

Myfourby, if you have your way, you will need to get friendly with someone who has a Patrol or Cruiser to get your oversized 31s.

Education is the ony real answer.
0
FollowupID: 410381

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 15:41

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 15:41
It may amaze you that people with large aggressive tires dont to as much damage as they can do it easier..

People going where they shouldnt on AT's and just sinking the boot in spinning up the tires for hours on end do more damage than someone crawling up a hill on Swampers/JT's etc.

Make them illegal to sell? LMAO.. Why not just ban 4wds?
AnswerID: 156003

Follow Up By: Shaker - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 16:07

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 16:07
How do the trenches get so deep then?
There is no way standard tyres could dig trenches like we are now too often confronted with!
0
FollowupID: 410001

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 16:14

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 16:14
How do you account for the ruts that are deeper than most tires are?

It can be accounted for with erosion and bikes also do damage.
0
FollowupID: 410005

Follow Up By: The Explorer - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 20:45

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 20:45
Rabbits?
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Moderator

0
FollowupID: 410126

Follow Up By: Rob from Cairns Offroad Training & Tours - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 21:56

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 21:56
Trail bikes do knowhere near as much damage as 4wds. They only weigh just over 100kgs not 3000kgs like a 4wd. Whens the last time you saw a trail bike bogged on a muddy track? Cheers Rob
0
FollowupID: 410157

Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 21:58

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 21:58
Bikes create ruts that 33" tyres get lost in?

Erosion I have seen but blaming bikes is too much of a stretch.
0
FollowupID: 410159

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 00:20

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 00:20
Rob.
All I said was "bikes also do damage." Notice the ALSO?? Fritz missed it too.

I think you underestimate bikes. When I was racing Enduros, we raced occcasionally on natural terrain courses.. 1/2 of 1 day, there was no grass anywhere on the tracks.

Chookchasers spend most of their time spinning on dirt. No matter how good you try, they do.. They may only weigh 100odd kgs, but the power to weight is tops!

And yes, their tires are aggressive. Why do you think you can 'fill in' people so easily?

they arent the total cause, thats not what Im saying, Im saying there is more to it than just big nasty chunky poo poo tires that sook is on about.

There is a combo of many things that cause damage. You cant say there is just one thing and thats "BIG DEADLY KILLER TIRES", cause you sound like a tosspot thinking that illogically..

YMMV
0
FollowupID: 410208

Follow Up By: myfourby - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:14

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:14
The physical evidence in the form of massive tyre ruts is there for all to see throughout many bush areas of Victoria. These tyre ruts only became noticeably larger in the past few years - when co-incidentally we all began to notice much heavier use of large 4WD tyres in these areas.

I've never said that all damage to tracks was only caused by large tyres - however - in my opinion (and anyone with who has seen these tracks - and driven on them over the past 5 years) they are a major cause.

I am really surprised to see so many arguing against the cause as my long term interests of being able to 4WD in the future - I'm assuming -would be the same as yours.

Explain this to me please - if large 4WD tyres are not to blame, and erosion and bikes are the cause of the majority of track damage - then what has changed in the past 5 years to now stop vehicles with 31" tyres getting through. I think we both know the answer.

-myfourby
0
FollowupID: 410248

Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:18

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:18
I give up - every interest group has one person who knows it all. This is of course to save the rest from having to think at all.

Thanks for your presence.

Now we can go and have all 31" tyres legislated out of existance and force all 4wds, SUVs, etc to be legal only with 35" tyres, and then everyone can go everywhere like they did 5 years ago.

So Simple really.
0
FollowupID: 410251

Reply By: Utemad - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 15:53

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 15:53
Is this the "I don't have/need them so why should anyone else" argument? Just like the "why does anyone need a 4wd in the city" argument don't you think?

I agree totally with Truckster.
AnswerID: 156006

Follow Up By: myfourby - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:18

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:18
No.

It's the "I still want to be able to 4WD in 5 years time" argument.

I'll be honest - I don't have a 37" swampers on my vehicle not because I can't afford them - or don't think they look cool - they'd look great! But look around you - our tracks are a mess - and these weapons are being used against us.

-myfourby
0
FollowupID: 410250

Follow Up By: Utemad - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:40

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:40
So you're in Victoria then? I don't know what size of tyre is common down there but from what I have heard mud is the go for terrain.

I'm in Qld and anything bigger than a 33x12.5 is pretty scarce. There is one guy in our club with 35s and I very rarely see any others. Also mud is scarce while rock and hill climbs are the go. Maybe we could ban big tyres in muddy regions? Although that would be segregating my voters and I'll never win an election doing that.

You must be a supporter of the 'ban 4wds in the city so no more kids are run over' argument too. Makes as much sense as what you're spewing.
0
FollowupID: 410258

Follow Up By: Utemad - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 10:51

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 10:51
I should add that if all the eroded tracks in Qld are caused by over sized tyres then why do I very very rarely ever see anything over 33in? I wouldn't consider that tyre in the 'large tyre' segment.

0
FollowupID: 410270

Reply By: Member - Omaroo (NSW) - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 16:00

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 16:00
I agree with Truckster .... and I don't.

Responsible drivers with 38 Swampers may do any given track more easily than someone on 31 AT's.

The problems come from people like I've (and most of you) often witnessed on the trails..... those with the big V8's and 38's that ARE finding a section of track challenging (particularly deep mud). They tend to quickly adopt the "bugger it" attitude more quickly because they seem to have to prove that they are capable of driving everything successfully.... and in the process are far more damaging to the trail than someone on 31's or whatever.

There are two sides to this story.... and neither is right or wrong.
AnswerID: 156010

Follow Up By: Member - Omaroo (NSW) - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 16:02

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 16:02
PS: What did people do decades ago when standard bar-tread rubber in "normal" sizes was all that was available? They still had a great time :)
0
FollowupID: 409997

Follow Up By: desert - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 17:11

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 17:11
Exactly. I've had the same argument with wheel chains for years with people that don't experience them first hand. A chained wheel with grip is less damaging than a spinning wheel with no grip. Sa,e difference.
0
FollowupID: 410030

Follow Up By: myfourby - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:25

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:25
So - do we take all guns away from everyone unless you have a permit and can be held responsible? - Or do we continue to allow anyone with a weapon to use it irresponsibly?

The same principal can and should be used for weapons of the large tyre variety.

I agree - large tyres used responsibly do cause less damage - but those used without a care cause the most damage possible with a 4WD.

Help save our tracks.

-myfourby
0
FollowupID: 410255

Follow Up By: Member - Pezza (QLD) - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 12:43

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 12:43
My fourby,
Your constant comparison of "weapons of the large tyre variety" to guns is over the top banter, try and explain to the guy exterminating feral pigs that next time he see's a boar with 3" fangs coming at him to rip of his 35" muddies and throw one at it!
I'm sure someone here still has your mate Harrold Scruby's No. if you need someone to listen.

Avagoodn
Pezza
0
FollowupID: 410289

Reply By: Frank_Troopy - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 16:03

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 16:03
Hi Myfourby,
I agree with you completely. On so many tracks now, the ruts are so deep that standard tyres won't give enough clearance. As soon as it becomes difficult for fire and service vehicles to get through what else are the authorities to do but close the tracks? It's too expensive to repeatedly repair them and if they justify the expense of upgrading the track it ends up passable to two wheel drives and we have lost our exclusive access; the very thing that draws so many to four wheel driving.

Attitudes need to change. The challenge of getting through when others can't drives some folk to be destructive. There may be a track that does well with little maintenance cost and has a large number of 4WDs passing merrily along, then along comes one rambo on a wet day who just can't bring himself to turn back and sections are made impassable.

Every golfer knows they must replace their divots, why can't four wheel drivers do the same thing? If you are likely to do more damage than you can repair then turn back.

Cheers Frank.
AnswerID: 156013

Follow Up By: allanmac856 - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 22:15

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 22:15
Couldnt agree more with you Frank & Myfourby. Dont worry though, as before long we wont have to complain, as more & more tracks will be closed. Happening heaps in NSW & now gaining momentum in Vic; places like Bunyip & Gembrook for example. Toolangi will be next. DSE are not going to spend money repairing tracks time after time that their standard vehicles cannot access for disasters like fire etc. Will close them, simple as that. Those who say bigger tyres etc do less damage is debatable. Amazing how many tracks I've been on that were passable with 32's one day ,but next time get hung up on diff etc due to huge ruts.
As far as I'm concerned, if you want the big tyres lifts etc, that's fine, but go play in the comps with the big boys & let us who want to go out & have an enjoyble time 4bying without having to try to impress anyone as to how macho our truck/driver is.

Am talking crap?, some will say so, but keep going down this path & before long there will be nowhere to drive. Again, it is starting to happen, just look at the number of permanent track closures around the country.

Cheers
Allanmac856
0
FollowupID: 410169

Reply By: Utemad - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 16:10

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 16:10
You may also find that the biggest reason for the state of our tracks is not from the 4x4s directly but from rain. Once a track has been formed by a 4x4 the soil has no protection and will erode when rain water flows down it.

Also as there are more and more 4x4s about these days there are more people about to make new tracks therefore more erosion.

Perhaps it is the people with stock 4x4s that are creating new tracks around the old eroded ones that they can no longer use whereas the bigger/aggressive tyred fourbies can still use the old tracks? So a stock 4x4 making these new tracks is actually causing more erosion. Therefore it is a logical conclusion to
BAN ALL STOCK 4WDS IN AUSTRALIA!!!! Quick everyone jump on the bandwagon.
AnswerID: 156017

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 16:16

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 16:16
>>> BAN ALL STOCK 4WDS IN AUSTRALIA!!!! Quick everyone jump on the Bandwagon.

YOU GET MY VOTE!
0
FollowupID: 410007

Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 16:33

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 16:33
VOTE 1 ......utemad for PM
0
FollowupID: 410014

Follow Up By: RupertDog - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 17:33

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 17:33
Don't ban the stock 4wds, and don't ban the aggressive tyred 4wd - The problem as identified is BAN THE RAIN !!

Problem solved !!

RD
0
FollowupID: 410038

Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 18:07

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 18:07
RupertDog,

Thank God someone has brought some sense into this discussion.

Vote 1 RupertDog for God (then he can turn the rain off/on whenever necessary)
0
FollowupID: 410049

Follow Up By: Utemad - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 18:20

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 18:20
Gramps don't fall for RupertDog's lies! I swear I didn't even see his lips moving when he said to blame it on the rain LMAO.
0
FollowupID: 410055

Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 18:44

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 18:44
Utemad,

You're right, he's a bloody ventriliquist (sp?) as well LOLOL
0
FollowupID: 410066

Follow Up By: Member - Pezza (QLD) - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 21:45

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 21:45
Utemad for PM!
Rupertdog for treasurer!

Avagoodn
Pezza
0
FollowupID: 410150

Follow Up By: dirtygq - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 18:46

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 18:46
I AGREE WITH YOU UTE MAD THESE STOCK 4WD OWNERS ARE NON EXPERIENCED AND MOST OF THE TIME DON'T EVEN DEFLATE THERE TYRES ,ON A RECENT TRIP TO FRASER ISLAND I ENCOUNTERED MORE TROOPIES ON STOCK RIMS AND TYRES THAT WERE BOGGED WITH SO CALLED EXPERIENCED 4WDERS AT THERE HANDS, I CAN'T BELIEVE THE MESS YOU OCCASIONAL 4WDERS MAKE RUTS THAT ARE CAUSED BY YOU HOPELESSLY SITTING THERE SPINNING YOUR PATHETIC CHEESE CUTTER DIG MIGHTY BIG HOLES I HAVE 33' MUD TYRES AND GIDE EFFORTLESSLY ACROSS MOST SURFACES INCLUDING SAND ....
P.S ..AS FOR YOU "MY FOURBY" YOU ARE JUST ANNOYED YOU CAN NO LONGER CUT IT. PEOPLE LIKE YOU SHOULDN'T OWN 4WD'S BECAUSE YOU SHOOT YOUR MOUTH OFF BEFORE THINKING ....ANY WAY I BET YOU ARE RESCUED WHEN YOU GO BUSH OR BEACH WITHOUT RECOVERY EQUIPMENT , BY ONE OF US WITH OUR BIG TYRES AND EVEN BIGGER CAPABLE 4WDS , JUST REMEMBER THAT !!!!!!
0
FollowupID: 410369

Reply By: govo - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 16:29

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 16:29
Quote...Let’s face it 99% of the vehicles with large tyres fitted are technically already illegal to drive on and off the road anyway. It’s time to make them illegal to sell, and to get the police in the bush to start defecting vehicles using them (for repeat offenders, vehicles should be impounded).

Admin...please inform poeple who post funnies that they are to do it on fridays.


Qoute..I was up at Gembrook (VIC) a few weeks ago - in a friends 4WD with large tyres .....nice mate you are myforby :(
AnswerID: 156027

Reply By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 16:57

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 16:57
Myfourby,

Next time you are out in the bush, take half an hour to go for a walk beyond the tracks. You will find just as much "damage" being done to the environment (if not more) from natural events such as fallen trees, exposure of rocks through natural erosion, and the like.

General estimates of land usage generally give tracks approximately 1% of the land area of the National Parks, and the so called extensively damaged track areas (ie., THAT YOU CAN SEE!!) would only be a small portion of that. The bits that you can't see can also impact track conditions through erosion (ie on the uphill side of the track). To solely blame large tyres is is just plain naive.

As for tyre size, the lighter and bigger the footprint the less damage you will do, mud, rock , dirt, or sand. ***The most important thing to do is to let your tyres down to an appropiate level for the conditions you are driving in.***

Myfourby, You have jumped on a very old bandwagon that lost its wheels long ago.
AnswerID: 156032

Follow Up By: myfourby - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:39

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:39
Gary - I am not and never will solely blame large tyres for track damage. However to compare the tracks now to 5 years ago - you cannot honestly tell me that they are not a major cause.

Unfortunately all the 4WDing education in the world will not help the minority who wreck the tracks for the rest of us.

Lets take away their weapon.

-myfourby
0
FollowupID: 410257

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 12:46

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 12:46
Blame:

Increased traffic caused by closure of other tracks.

Increased traffic caused by the increased number of 4wd owners on the tracks.

------------

"...Unfortunately all the 4WDing education in the world will not help the minority who wreck the tracks for the rest of us...."

Compulsory 4wd education may be what is needed to prevent ppl arriving in the bush with no idea about the technicalities and correct techniques, and with woefully prepared vehicles, or vehicles that are just not fit for purpose (most "softroaders").

------------------------------

Myfourby, you sound like the Govt revenue collectors with their simplistic "Speed Kills" one track mind. Stopping the sale of large tyres will do absolutely nothing for or to the environment.
0
FollowupID: 410291

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 12:48

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 12:48
>>> Lets take away their weapon.
Ban the 4wd?

0
FollowupID: 410293

Follow Up By: myfourby - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 13:41

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 13:41
Gary - I agree increased traffic for whatever reason is part of the cause - but not the main cause. Compulsory driver education is a great idea!! I'm all for that along with the banning of large tyres (except for perhaps competition use at pre-approved competition events) and much more regular police checking/defecting of vehicles in areas being damaged by large tyres.

And yes truckster - banning the 4WD (ie impounding the offending vehicles) if convicted more than once.

-myfourby
0
FollowupID: 410301

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 14:05

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 14:05
Why not fine impound vehicles that are causing the damage? Fools with 31's tryin to go where they know they cant, foot to the floor and ripping the ground to pieces??

Oh thats right, lets guess who that would be.
0
FollowupID: 410307

Reply By: the real chopper - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 17:25

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 17:25
surely driver education is more important than banning equipment
AnswerID: 156040

Follow Up By: myfourby - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:43

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:43
Yep - but unfortunately those who do the damage are not interested in being educated. We need to disarm them by disallowing them to use large tyres.

-myfourby
0
FollowupID: 410260

Reply By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 17:31

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 17:31
"surely driver education is more important than banning equipment "

Exactly!!!!!!
AnswerID: 156043

Reply By: 100TD - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 17:35

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 17:35
i reckon dirtbikes and rain do more damage than anything!
AnswerID: 156044

Follow Up By: Member - Pezza (QLD) - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 21:35

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 21:35
Yep, I can see a that 1 tyre that's 4 inches wide can do more damage than 4 tyres at 10-12 inches wide. NOT!!

Avagoodn
Pezza
0
FollowupID: 410144

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 07:40

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 07:40
...he (Pezza) says with his 33 x 12.5 tyres... (hmmm, glass houses and stones???)

Pezza, it's a case of one wheel geting no traction, or the traction shared amongst 4 wheels. Is it easier to cut butter with a knife or the flat side of a spoon?
0
FollowupID: 410232

Follow Up By: Member - Pezza (QLD) - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 12:55

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 12:55
Garry,
You've obviously looked at my rig pics so you would've also seen what I do in my relaxation time.
"or the traction shared amongst 4 wheels."
What traction, when your foot in buried and all fours are spinning up a hill, or through a mud bog?
Using your analogy, while you have the butter out, get the knife and run the sharp edge lengthways along the top of the butter, now get your spoon and run it crossways along the same section and tell me which has removed more butter?

Avagoodn
Pezza
0
FollowupID: 410296

Follow Up By: Member - Pezza (QLD) - Saturday, Feb 25, 2006 at 11:02

Saturday, Feb 25, 2006 at 11:02
Garry,
Just re-read this and figured that we mis-sunderstood each other, my point wasn't that 33's don't do any damage, 'any' tyre when driven incorrectly or with a 'foot to the boards' attitude, can do the damage that Harolds mate Myfourby is on about, the point I was trying to make was that a 'dirtbike can do more damage than a fourby' is laughable.

Avagoodn
Pezza
0
FollowupID: 411152

Reply By: Gu_Patrol - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 17:51

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 17:51
How about Country fire service , they have really big tyres on their 4x4 Hino trucks maybe they should drive slower and less lamounts of water which would mean less damage to our tracks, just a thought.
AnswerID: 156046

Reply By: Rock Crawler - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 19:02

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 19:02
Sotty dude . But I think you have no idea . What makes more damage , a car set up to tackle hard terrain ? or a car that isnt. If you dont run big tyres or lockers ect , on a wet day in Gembrook , then dont bother going. And secondly were you go with your stocker , we dont bother .

So you want to give Rankens ago in your stocker on a wet day do you ? or ridge track in Toolangi on any day ? good luck , call me so i can have my video camera .

Some like to go for a pleasure drive a barby and some sights , others want to try something harder , hey , dont matter what you like , just enjoy it and have fun , but please stop pointing the finger . The most lame excuse i hear is , I would have made it if you didnt dig it up. But most of the time , we go up withought wheel spin & the stockers chopping it up from trying .
AnswerID: 156075

Follow Up By: myfourby - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 10:23

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 10:23
Mate - sounds like you have the ability to use your large tyres responsibly - thats great.

My issue is with those that don't - the people that keep digging into a track with their large tyres so that no-one else can possibly get through unless they have even larger tyres or a winch. These people are the ones to blame for the track damage and the ones to blame for me wanting to see large tyres made illegal and removed from the open market.

The tracks have degraded severely over the past 5 years since large tyres have been more commonly used - and its only a matter of time before they are closed to us all.

Help me help you - stop pretending they aren't a major cause and ditch the big tyres and encourage others to do the same.

-myforuby
0
FollowupID: 410263

Follow Up By: Rock Crawler - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 17:08

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 17:08
Sorry . but up have no point what so ever.

So If a Criuser on standard tyres diggs up the track and a guy in suzuki cant make it , do we ban cruisers becase they run a larder tyre ?

I think you should be concentrating on banning hoons that dont give a stuff , That I will support .

Upgrading Ptrool from 35's to 44's , because I wasnt more traction and larger foot print .

Another point , If a well done up truck dug up a track to get up , trust me , you would have had no hope in the first place . What we should have, is areas people with large big dollar rigs can play on an have as much fun as we like , but why would the goverment want to spend money , to busy linning there pockets
0
FollowupID: 410353

Reply By: Member JD- Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 20:16

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 20:16
Hi All.
All I can say is....TREAD LIGHTLY..Go figger..rite gear selection..rite amount of momentom..and away you go..no damage!
JD
AnswerID: 156100

Reply By: nowimnumberone - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 21:07

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 21:07
lets ban the small tyre
AnswerID: 156116

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 21:51

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 21:51
No.

I think we should just ban everyone who wants to go into the bush at any time or place who cannot hover at least 500mm above the ground.

Mike Harding
0
FollowupID: 410153

Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 22:31

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 22:31
No more banning please. The govt needs to cease with this banning and rules and regulation of simple things and nurture the ability of it's young population to exercise judjement using common sense before we end up with a country of buffoons who can't think for themselves.
0
FollowupID: 410174

Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 23:43

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 23:43
oh dear I just realised my mistake.

A population of buffoons who can't think for themselves is exactly what the govt wants.
0
FollowupID: 410197

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 00:24

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 00:24
What took ya Ray!
0
FollowupID: 410209

Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 08:47

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 08:47
Yeah I'm a bit slow sometimes. I blame it on time spent up north :)
0
FollowupID: 410243

Follow Up By: Wombat - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 19:14

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 19:14
I think we should just ban the banning of anything.
0
FollowupID: 410374

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 00:18

Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 00:18
Cant do that Womby..thats banned

infact, this reply is banned. as is the banning of this banned reply.. infact.
0
FollowupID: 410470

Reply By: Member - TP M (SA) - Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 23:31

Monday, Feb 20, 2006 at 23:31
I think every body just bit the hook line and sinker, by the sounds of it he doesnt even own a 4WD ( if he is in a friends 4WD, who dosnt realise he is getting back stabbed) A true purist of offroading would of been there in his own vehicle to show " his mate " how to be a sensible off roader.
If the wheel is in the guard or a sensible flare, its good in my book.

I think he is just a antagonist who drops a insult and sits back laughing !

Tread lightly , leave nothing but footprints or the odd tyre print ON the track.
AnswerID: 156164

Follow Up By: myfourby - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 10:38

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 10:38
Ok - I'll bite back...

I have been offroading for over 12 years and I've seen the tracks damaged severely in the past 5. I own a 4WD with 31" tyres and I now can't use it where I used to use it for the first 7 years of offroading.

I am angry because - I can't go the places I want to go anymore without making major mods to my vehicle - and I know the tracks will close because of others damaging them with large tyres and irresponsible behaviour.

We have been yelling "tread lightly" for years - unfortunately its had little effect on those that just don't care. Education does not work on those who do not wish to be educated - and the damage continues.

Save our tracks - ban big tyres.

-myforby
0
FollowupID: 410266

Follow Up By: Utemad - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 11:00

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 11:00
Maybe you flogging your POS along those tracks with your 31 inch tyres for 7 years was the cause of the buggered tracks?
Have you noticed that if you walk along the same line in a grass paddock long enough there will be no grass along that line? Maybe we should all get smaller feet? Just look at cattle and other hard hoofed animals. They do no damage with their small feet. Don't they ???

I'll agree with your irresponsible behaviour but that can be done in a Suzuki on 26in tyres as much as any other vehicle.

What vehicle do you drive? 31s are illegal on most vehicles.
0
FollowupID: 410271

Follow Up By: myfourby - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 12:27

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 12:27
So it must be a coincidence that for 7 years there were no issues driving these tracks then all of a sudden when larger tyres started to become the norm 5 years ago - the ruts became deeper?

I own a hilux and use 31" tyres - which is technically illegal you're right. However it is not a 31" tyre that is causing the major damage to our tracks. I would be more than happy to give up my huge 31" tyres for 29" tyres if it made a difference. Lets be honest - 38" swampers and the like are the real culprits - how could my 31" cause the deep ruts seen in these areas when my diff would scrape well before the tyre even reached the ground?

How can you say that a Suzuki with 26" tyres can do as much damage as any other vehicle (eg. V8 landcrusier with 38" boggers???). I'm no expert - but surely this kind of comparison doesn't require one???

The combination of large tyres and irresponsible behaviour is causing these tracks to turn into a chopped up mess.

- myforby
0
FollowupID: 410283

Follow Up By: Member - Landie - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 13:54

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 13:54
myfourby

This looks all rather hypocritical on your part. You call for the banning of oversize tyres, but now you admit to using oversized tyres which are illegal on your vehicle.

From a credibility point of view perhaps you should either remove them from your vehicle or excuse yourself from this debate.

Perhaps even both...............
0
FollowupID: 410303

Follow Up By: Hoonz - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 18:19

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 18:19
myfourby posted this followup

Ok - I'll bite back...

I have been offroading for over 12 years and I've seen the tracks damaged severely in the past 5. I own a 4WD with 31" tyres and I now can't use it where I used to use it for the first 7 years of offroading.

I am angry because - I can't go the places I want to go anymore without making major mods to my vehicle - and I know the tracks will close because of others damaging them with large tyres and irresponsible behaviour.

We have been yelling "tread lightly" for years - unfortunately its had little effect on those that just don't care. Education does not work on those who do not wish to be educated - and the damage continues.

Save our tracks - ban big tyres.

-myforby

mate if you've been 4wding for 12 years and can't navigate ur way around some ruts sell your 4wd now .... don't be angry at every one cause they have bigger tyres and can drive the ruts ... be angry at yourself cause you can't drive for bleep

4wds aren't the only factor as stated before ... mother nature and any other track users (motorbikes, trail walkers, rual fire bridgade)

bigger tyres cause less damage ... pure physics on that one ... its you guys with the small tyres that keep attempting stuff IN the ruts spinning up ur small tyres also your 1 of many that use the tracks to go 4wding ... PS! your part of the problem

yes there are hoonz with big 4wds, big horse powe,r big tyres that like running a muck but you mob need to get off ur high horse and stop being whingy lil biatches you mob make me ashamed to be a 4wder
ol scrubby would love you guys

0
FollowupID: 410361

Follow Up By: Utemad - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 19:13

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 19:13
Well if you have been 4wding for 12 years and the first 7 were fine and the last 5 too hard then have you given any thought that maybe there is someone on another forum with a stock Hilux on 29s (not your illegal 31s) having a whinge that the last 12 years have been too hard because of all these people getting around on 31s? What would you say to them you vandal?

Maybe when you started driving the tracks 12 years ago they were newish. Then as they got progressively more rutted (due to erosion etc) you got better as a 4wder until 5 years ago the tracks just got too rutted for your and your vehicles ability.

As I said before, in Qld I have rarely seen a 4x4 on 35s (in person and not in a competition) 38s are a fairytale up here! So how on Earth have all our ruts been made by large tyres?

I think you should quit while your ahead..................oh wait your not. Might as well keep this going then. I'm bleep myself laughing at you :-)

0
FollowupID: 410373

Reply By: Pterosaur - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 00:02

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 00:02
Spinning wheels, whether wide or narrow, are the source of the "nick points" from which track erosion proceeds.

Using the appropriate gear, and range when attempting a slope, depending upon your vehicle's capabilities, is the most important way to reduce one's impact, and driver education and/or experience are the best way to address incorrect techniques.

Bikes have their own problems, in that they can access additional areas where 4x4's are unable to go - otherwise they have similarly destructive effects if used without thought to their impact on the ground.

Broadly speaking, there are two types of people who are involved in "vehicle based recreation" -

1. "Destination" oriented users.
i.e. those who are interested in accessing areas which they find attractive, but which they are unable to access using conventional vehicles. Organisations such as Rural fires, National parks fit well into this group too.

2. "Vehicle" oriented users.
i.e. those who are interested in their vehicles capabilities and seek out destinations which will test these capabilities. Many 4wd clubs fit into this group.

These divisions are in a sense, arbitary, as there is some degree of "crossover" between the groups, and the "recreational experiences" they are seeking.

Unfortunately, the goals of the second group, and the way they commonly use their vehicles is not particularly compatible with the desires and needs of the first. For instance, users in the second group may not particularly mind if a track becomes badly eroded, as travelling it then becomes a more fulfilling experience for them. However, those from the first group will generally not appreciate the additional effort (and wear and tear on vehicles) posed by the badly eroded track.

Both groups, however, may have significant adverse effects upon the environment, and the difficulty faced by managers is how to reduce these impacts, which often results in track closures, particularly in the absence of :

(a) funding and staff to manage and repair eroded tracks (including policing inappropriate use)
and
(b) volunteers (and the supervision required), prepared to do so.

The only "fixes" possible IMHO, are increased driver awareness and training, and an increase in environmental awareness among those using 4wd's and trailbikes. Banning things does little to address the erosion and management problems which arise, and even track closures usually just relocate the problems to other (sometimes less suitable) areas.

A system of "zoning" of tracks for the differing experiences may work, but can only do so if supported by the majority of users, and by the various governments, in terms of funding.

It is my experience that little cooperation is gotten from either group when attempts are being made to address these problems, indeed many individuals become aggressively defiant when faced with the reality of their diminishing recereational opportunities. Many still refuse to acknowledge their responsibilities for the side effects (upon others, and the environment) of their leisure activities. Continuance of this type of attitude can only result in the least desirable outcomes for all involved.

I have spent a considerable part of my working life seeking a resolution to these problems, as I love the bush, and these are the only conclusions I can offer.
AnswerID: 156170

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 07:00

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 07:00
Question: Does it matter?

The bushlands of Australia are a huge area - vehicle tracks cover a tiny fraction of 1% of that area.

If a few tracks are badly eroded and become unusable no significant damage will be done to the bush, it's not like open cast mining a large area.

As only a tiny fraction of 1% of the population go into the bush areas under discussion the inconvenience factor is insignificant and as bush drivers we don't expect good roads in the bush anyway.

Does it matter?

Mike Harding
0
FollowupID: 410223

Follow Up By: Utemad - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:08

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:08
It most certainly does matter. As much as I disagree with Myfourby I do not think we should turn a blind eye to the damage that we do/cause/initiate.

What you (MikeH) have said about the minimal track impact may be true in outback areas where they do indeed get minimal use. However in a built up area (or close to) the bush is very quickly cut up by 4x4/trail bike use 24/7. Not just from big tyred monsters but from the sheer quantity of 4x4s and bikes traversing these areas. I live near a few of these places and the amount of tracks that get cut through these areas is huge. As soon as one track becomes too hard a new track is cut.
Then there is the other aspect of these populated areas when people go into them to dump rubbish and cars.

Erosion of the track is not the only issue. There is rubbish as stated above and what do you think happens to the eroded material? It gets washed to the bottom of the hill where that creek is that is now all silted up. Don't forget about the soil based diseases and weeds you are spreading throughout the area either. Nor the harm you are doing to the local wildlife through habitat destruction/segmentation.

There is a huge list of problems that can be generated when you look closely at it. I love 4x4ing as much as the next guy but there is no point burying our head in the sand and saying we do no damage at all. Niether is their any point in being a sook and complaining about others with big tyres when it is not the problem at all.
0
FollowupID: 410247

Follow Up By: Pterosaur - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:29

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:29
G'day Mike

Does it matter ?

I think it does, for the following reasons

1. Use (and abuse) is not randomly spread over the continent, nor through the bush, but concentrated around particular destinations/tracks, as people seek these areas out. Local impacts can be extremely severe, - for instance, in one of the coastal areas I used to manage, a series of coastal lagoons were reduced to claypans by irresponsible users doing "wheelies" on the wallaby lawn surface when they were dry. Over subsequent seasons, nick points on the tracks allowed small erosion gullies to develop, which over approx. 4 years developed into gullies 1-2m deep, and blocked access to the whole area. The area directly affected was about 10ha., and while insignificant in terms of Australia's area, was very significant in terms of the destination affected, and the enjoyment of users of the area.

2. I agree that track erosion should not be compared to open cast mining in terms of immediate impact (not that I have done so), but there are a number of other area effects resulting from the (localised and visible) track erosion which occur. These can include such things as disruption of water flow regimes, pollution of watercourses, spread of fungal pathogens, and weed spread to mention a few.

3.It may be that only a fraction of Australia's population goes into the bush, although I think you are understating this, and few expect good roads - but if users continue to degrade and destroy what access there is, whether intentionally or carelessly, then we arrive at the "death by a thousand cuts" scenario ie incremental loss of the bushlands. This IS happening (although 4wd use is not the only factor).

4.I think you will find organisations such as the Rural fires, Forestry, National parks disagree strongly with you about the "insignificance of the inconvenience factor" - in Tas., 4wd's have been banned from tracks as they had made them inaccessible to emergency services, and I am sure this has happened elsewhere too. Just think about how happy firefighters are, when on their way to attempt a backburn, or intercept a fire front, and find their access blocked by 2m deep gullies where the fire track used to be.

I could go on, but I suspect you get the point -

YES IT DOES MATTER

Terry
0
FollowupID: 410256

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 19:06

Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 19:06
I remain unconvinced.

Utemad:
People dumping rubbish is a totally different issue.

Bush areas close to urban sprawls are _obviously_ going to get stuffed. After all the urban sprawl stuffed a lot of bush - what was there before your nice house?

Pterosaur:
Point 1: So we four wheel drivers have ruined access to a four wheel drive area - that's our loss.

Point 2: Clutching at straws.

Point 3: That was the thrust of my original post - Australia is BIG - does it matter in overall terms? The bush (the tiny amount of it we 4WDers stuff up) will sort itself out - as you suggested in point 1, it will just lock us out.

Point 4: Some validity here perhaps - however when you can convince me that the DSE in Victoria have the remotest idea about anything, especially fighting fires (although they seem pretty good at starting them) I'll discuss this one further.

Still unconvinced.

Finally: I would refer you to Gaia:
http://www.oceansonline.com/gaiaho.htm

Mike Harding
0
FollowupID: 410597

Follow Up By: Utemad - Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 19:35

Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 19:35
You are right that rubbish is a different issue to ruts being made by whatever but it is another reason to keep 4x4s out of an area. Not just intentionally dumped rubbish but people seem to leave a lot of crap behind wherever they go. Just look at Fraser or Cooloola.

I'll leave Pterosaur to defend his/her own comments (although I do agree with them).

Although (ok just one) how can you justify 4x4ers should be permitted to destroy an area (that is public land for everybody) just because it is 4x4 access only? That access restriction does not denote ownership. Not all suburban areas are destined for destruction either. In my area we used to have problems of 4x4s getting into fenced off protected areas. Now with better fences and monitoring that appears to have been halted although some trailbikes still get in.

I could go on but I won't.
0
FollowupID: 410612

Follow Up By: Pterosaur - Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 09:57

Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 09:57
Mike,

1. "So we four wheel drivers have ruined access to a four wheel drive area - that's our loss. "

Do you think 4wd users are the only ones who like to visit such areas ? Such damage is a general loss to the whole community, in terms of loss of biodiversity, recreational experience, aesthetics etc., to mention the obvious. In the example I used, it also cost taxpayers a large sum of money to remediate the damage caused.

Even if 4wd users were the only ones to visit an area, what gives them the right to destroy public assets - to cause significant environmental degradation?

What about the idea that one should try to leave an area in no worse a state than it is found, in order that others may enjoy the same or a similar experience to yours?

2."Clutching at straws. "

I think not.

Perhaps you should consider a bit of "hydrology 101", or look up some of the available literature on the spread of the fungal pathogen, Phytopthera cinnamomi, or check out the literature on the causes of sedimentation in streams and its effects upon aquatic fauna and flora, or water quality, before you make such an uninformed comment.

3. I was unaware that your original post advocated following a "death by a thousand cuts" management philosophy - on rereading, I see that that is indeed implicit in what you have written.

You are, however wrong when it comes to stating that it is only a tiny proportion of the bush affected, even if you ignore the very real side effects, some of which I have pointed out. Bushland near all urban areas , in all states is affected, and the evidence can be seen by anyone with the will to look, (and in, I suppose, the experiences of those contributing to this thread) as can the impact of thoughtless use of our vehicles just about anywhere regularly frequented in Oz. Flying over areas used for recreational driving etc., in a small plane or chopper, would I am sure lead you to reconsider the gravity of the situation.

4.As I have no involvement (and have never had) with Vic. DSE, I will not attempt to convince you of anything they may or may not do. However, in Tasmania, publicly available information shows that the most frequent cause of wildfires in our state has been fires escaping from forestry operations (such as regeneration burning, hazard reduction).(I too could go on about this, but it's getting off topic)

Check out some of the topics I have referred you to at point 2 - I haven't provided links as all those bookmarks are on my laptop, but I'm sure you'll be able to cope :-).

Keep an open mind, and it may lead you to change your convictions.

Finally, WRT the Gaia hypothesis, (which I am well familiar with) I believe it is true that our planet may be regarded as a "self repairing organism", analogous to a human body, but that 2 points are significant :

1. Gaia may be self repairing, but such "self repair" need not include the human race. Thus, I don't believe that anything we do will "wipe out nature" , i.e. even if we end up as a radioactive ball of slag, some form of biological activity will continue.

2. As a human, I prefer to breathe oxygen/nitrogen mix, with a dash of carbon dioxide, drink water with few salts and generally continue as mammalian lifeforms have done since they evolved. Having a consciousness, I think that it is a bad idea to "sh*t in my own nest", as I may just get "repaired" by Gaia.

It all amounts to "good citizenship" really, whether talking in terms of Gaia, (and the geologic timespans which may be involved), or the local bit of bush (in my case the highland lakes) that I like to visit.

Utemad :
just to put your mind at rest - I'm "he" :-)

regards
Terry
0
FollowupID: 410696

Reply By: Member - Troll 81 (QLD) - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 03:15

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 03:15
Been having a good read here and this is my thoughts: I go to Landcruiser park allot and every time I go on a track that I have been on before it's like it's getting worse and worse. This can't be from 4x4 going up there it's from the rain...when it rains allot it will do damage to anything on that hill. Most of the tracks don't have grass to cover it and the dirt and gravel will just wash away and make the ruts deeper and deeper. The problem is not the 4x4 tires it's the weather

AnswerID: 156181

Reply By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 07:44

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 07:44
The bandwagon is leaving in ten minutes, all those that want all 4WD tracks billiard table smooth (+/- bitumen) please leave your softroaders at the door before you enter....
AnswerID: 156188

Follow Up By: the real chopper - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:57

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:57
Ha, classic !
0
FollowupID: 410262

Reply By: Redback - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 08:33

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 08:33
My 4B has 29s as standard :-(

BAN ALL 31" TYRES SO I CAN PLAY TOO ;-)))

Baz.
AnswerID: 156192

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 23:12

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 23:12
SHOELACES!!!!!!!!!!!!

THE PURE ANSWER!
0
FollowupID: 410456

Reply By: Robert - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 10:20

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 10:20
Mmm, perhaps it's not so much that bigger diameter tyres do damage, but more that some people with bigger diameter tyres are the ones who deliberately go looking for mud/bog holes etc to drive through!
AnswerID: 156210

Follow Up By: myfourby - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 11:27

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 11:27
You may be right Robert.

Why should they be allowed to use such weapons of mass destruction.

Lets take their weapon away in a hope that with smaller tyres less damage can be done.

-myfourby
0
FollowupID: 410274

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 13:46

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 13:46
Harold Scruby said :
> Why should they be allowed to use such weapons of mass destruction.

Are you really a 4wder? Or are you really harold scruby or one of his clones?

Why is anyone allowed a 4wd? Why are people allowed cars that do 3000kph, or bikes that do 320kph off the shelf? Why?

Why not just ban everything that goes near the bush?

Obviously 29inch mt's dont do any damage.. lets all go and buy some.

Ban ANY 4wd/bike/car/horse/cattle/wild animal, mtn biker does damage.

Lets ban Bush walkers, Bikes, Horses, Cattle, Wild animals, Mother nature, and mtn bikes.

Infact, lets all just drive up the hume hwy, thats a goat track, oh thats right we banned

Remember generalising is stupid.. then again so is this thread.

I've seen first hand a dude not get up a hill in a Terrano with the standard 29's on it, so he fitted snow chains to assist him - you can guess what happened to the ground at about 5000rpm and little movement forward... He wasnt going to take no for an answer even when told the damage he would do.. Yet I got up the same hill with ease on my MASS DESTRUCTION (makes me laugh!) JT 34x12's.

YMWVYOC.
0
FollowupID: 410302

Reply By: fourstall2000 - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 10:41

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 10:41
You are all missing the point,the correspondent is concerned that we may use the use of the tracks,and he is right to be concerned.
Living close to one of the popular areas outside Melbourne I can tell you that local pressure is mounting against track use.
It is not the large tyres just OVER USE.
The fact that our recreation is growing in numbers daily means more and more are using the nearest areas such as Gembrook,Toolangie etc every weekend.
Through Healesville on any weekend it is almost a steady stream of heavy vehicles in the mornings and evenings coming or going to local areas.
On top of this you have the trail bikes in equal numbers,now this type of use results in massive erosion regardless of tyre type.
Many of these drivers are non club members and have had no driver training which makes the problem worse,as some one else pointed out aggressive tyres may not cause great damage if used correctly,every time we go out we meet the mad wheel spinners who do not give a hoot for tread lightly and the mess they make.
Something has to be done in the form of self regulation,our best hope is that everyone will join a club,so that we we can claim that our recreation is full of trained members.
This also gives the 4wd association the numbers to have some influence over the politicians that ulimately control our access.
For those who just do not give a stuff and go for it every weekend you are simply just ruining it for every one else in the future.
Regards
AnswerID: 156213

Follow Up By: Damon - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 11:00

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 11:00
I will second that overuse is the likely culprit, especially at places like Toolangi or Gembrook. I am sure everyones intentions are in the right place in the posts above and I am also sure everyone knows that small or large tyres will both do damage in the hands of a fool. There is always potential for an adverse or detrimental impact from this activity we all want to pursue. This is not an isolated scenario in life - anyone know how to educate and instill respect into the small minority who do the wrong thing?

Damon
0
FollowupID: 410273

Reply By: allanmac856 - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 12:06

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 12:06
We will all have differing opinions here, I whilst I dont necessarily agree with everything Utemad & Truckster said, Utemad hit the nail on the head, when he said we ALL cause damage, whether it be on 29's or 35's etc, or riding trailbikes & the like. Again, the undeniable fact is tracks are closing & if we are to reduce this, we all may need to look at how we approach our 4wding. Some stated the weather as a contributing factor, maybe, but it doesnt help when after a heavy downpour, alot of 4bies hit the trails. We have all heard/read how a trip is arranged on the spot because tracks will be muddy/slippery etc; ie great fun. IMO, this causes the most damage, as every vehicle will have some degree of wheelspin etc. No, I'm not advocating no 4wding in the wet, that is stupid, but maybe give it some serious thought as to whether you should drive down a particular track etc, because if so, you/I could potentially cause far more damage.
If we are all perfectly honest, I think most would agree that the reason some have the huge tyres/body lifts etc, is not to make life easier on the medium type tracks, but to go find the ones with the bigger bogholes, bigger ruts etc that eventually become impassable, & finally closed. Maybe I'm wrong, but I dont believe so, & again is just my opinion.

Cheers
AnswerID: 156226

Follow Up By: myfourby - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 12:35

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 12:35
You are right - if we don't look after the place the gates get locked and where to then?

I love a well setup competition style vehicle - but they have their place - in a competition area - set aside for this purpose.

I agree overuse is an issue - but IMO huge track tearing tyres are causing more damage than overuse.

-myfourby
0
FollowupID: 410286

Follow Up By: grimbo - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 16:02

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 16:02
myfourby you have made it quite clear that you see no need for aggressive tyres are the primary reason for the damage. I think you need to open your eyes and your mind a little more.

Bigger tyres actually do less track damage if driven appropriately. A larger tyre has a greater footprint thus having less ground pressure. A well set up vehicle with good articulation, large tyres and lockers will do less track damage than a vehicle with poor articulation, no lockers and smaller in appropriate tyres.

If you travel to Toolangi as an example there are some places that have massive 1metre + ruts, these are not frm agressive tyres but in fact from erosion. Ereosion can be formed by anyone driving on a freshly graded road whilst still wet. The tyre tracks will cut into the level surface causing depessions which allow water to travel down, causing erosion. Now a large aggresive tyre will in many cases not cause these depressions as they will move over the surface with their bigger footprint and lower ground pressure, whereas a smaller harder tyre will spin for traction causing the depressions.

A weel set up vehicle driven by a responsible driver will cause less damage than any sort of vehicle, set up in whatever way, driven by an irresponsible driver. So maybe you should be targetting irresponsible drivers which not only include yahoos with big egos but inexperienced or experienced drivers, driving in conditions there vehicles aren't equipped to handle.
0
FollowupID: 410332

Reply By: Member - Collyn R (WA) - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 12:33

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 12:33
I suspect this is more to do with aggressive tread patterns than size.

I was honestly shocked when I saw what damage the 900 by 16 14-plys Michelin XYL (quarry tyres fitted originally to my own and most OKAs) were doing - and that was on our own property!

I changed them to XL road pattern tyres and this fixed the problem completely.

Curiously enough we found the road tyres almost as effective as the lugged tyres in most places off road, far better (as expected) in sand. They also last about 100,000 km instead of 25,000 km.

I should have expected this tho - in the 1960s I took a big Bedford the length and breadth of Africa (twice). The truck used totally standard 11.00 by 20 road tyres.

I agree re putting our own house in order. Not all the rocks thrown are unjustified.
Collyn Rivers

AnswerID: 156232

Reply By: Robert - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 13:15

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 13:15
" I suspect this is more to do with aggressive tread patterns than size. "

I suspect that when people refer to large dia. tyres, that they are talking in reference to them being aggresive pattern. As I would tend to think large dia. ie. 35 inch & agressive pattern go hand in hand.

Would it be fair to say that the ones who use the bush as a mere playground, always have large dia. tyres or to be more correct as Collyn has pointed out - have aggressive patterns?
AnswerID: 156241

Reply By: bruce.h (WA) - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 14:34

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 14:34
in my 25 years of experance i can tell you i have seen lots of track get damaged & it is not done by the size of the tyre but by the size of the ego of the driver!
if every driver stoped when it becacme aparent that they were not going tobe successful in their attempt then the damage to tracks would be reduced conciderably.
the other problem lies in the shear number of 4wd , an increase of huge amounts of 4wd over the years & the closing of many of the tracks australia wide has seen more cars placed into less area's thus increasing the traffic flow over tracks hence once damage is done it is then increased by those folowing who alow their ego to drive rather than their commen scence.

the other is as stated is the acts of mother nature who has top obay the laws of physics & make water flow down the lowwest point ie vehicle tracks which then strips more siol out of the track making them deeper, this in turn then attracts bigger egos to the track who have to concer the track & you now have in place the cycle of destruction.

how do we stop it!
drive with your brain not your ego!
AnswerID: 156255

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 17:06

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 17:06
>>> it is not done by the size of the tyre but by the size of the ego of the driver!
>>> if every driver stoped when it becacme aparent that they were not going tobe successful in their attempt then the damage to tracks would be reduced conciderably.

Ive been trying to say this, but he doesnt want to hear it.. he got stuck, adn didnt have recovery gear, so is now crying to ban anything more capable than his POS
0
FollowupID: 410351

Reply By: corrupt - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 16:19

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 16:19
myfourby

You my friend are a idiot. You can no longer get up a track that u could befor, now u want to ban all 4x4s that are more capable than your own.

I bet u were one of thoses kids that when u got beaten in cricket u would take your bat and ball and go home.

I think from now on u should keep your small narrow minded comments to your self, and get over the "small man syndrome" that u are obvious suffering from.

It sounds like you are telling the anti 4x4 mobs about the 0.0000000001% of australia that has apparently been cut up buy these large tyred 4x4s. There are pleanty of other 4x4 tracks out there, go drive on them and stop boaring every one with your stupid comments.
AnswerID: 156280

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 17:06

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 17:06
*applause*
0
FollowupID: 410352

Follow Up By: Hoonz - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 18:29

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 18:29
mate if you've been 4wding for 12 years and can't navigate ur way around some ruts sell your 4wd now .... don't be angry at every one cause they have bigger tyres and can drive the ruts ... be angry at yourself cause you can't drive for bleep

4wds aren't the only factor as stated before ... mother nature and any other track users (motorbikes, trail walkers, rual fire bridgade)

bigger tyres cause less damage ... pure physics on that one ... its you guys with the small tyres that keep attempting stuff IN the ruts spinning up ur small tyres ... also your 1 of many that use the tracks to go 4wding ... PS! your part of the problem

yes there are hoonz with big 4wds, big horse powe,r big tyres that like running a muck but you mob need to get off ur high horse and stop being whingy lil biatches you mob make me ashamed to be a 4wder
ol scrubby would love you guys

my post earlier incase it gets missed ...
0
FollowupID: 410363

Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 19:33

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 19:33
Hoonz, just for your info the tracks are there for the Rural Fire Service, anything else is incidental.
Trail walkers cut up the tracks? ........ come on!
0
FollowupID: 410380

Follow Up By: Hoonz - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 19:38

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 19:38
they make walking tracks don't they ... rains errodes walking tracks
makes them unwalkable ... BAN TRAIL WALKERS!

asshat...
0
FollowupID: 410384

Reply By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 16:53

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 16:53
Myforby, in case you haven't noticed we are all having a good laugh at your expense, even on other forums.....

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and prove it beyond doubt."
AnswerID: 156285

Reply By: dirtygq - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 19:29

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 19:29
Hey wait a second there stop shooting your mouth off before having facts , i do work for national parks and totally diagree with what you assume to be the cause of mass erosion. Errosion is caused by rain ,wind and feral animals and also the bogging of 4wds, most of the 4wd's QPWS use are road registered which means we have to stay within placcard tyre sizes, but at the moment we are exploring the idea larger tyres which are fundamentally more efficient as the spread over the surface in stead of digging into the surface.Did you realise that small tyres cause more harm then larger tyres as it takes more attempts to negotiate a track that is challenging and usually results in bogging which is just the chance mother nature needs to erode the tracks further with rain and wind, national parks are actually looking at ways of fining drivers who do not deflate there tyres as deflating leaves a bigger footprint and impacts less on the enviroment . BTW QPWS have started using good year mtr's on many vehicles .
AnswerID: 156309

Follow Up By: Utemad - Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 22:47

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 at 22:47
"BTW QPWS have started using good year mtr's on many vehicles ."

I have noticed Forestry has too. Friend has them on a 79 series Forestry fire response ute.
0
FollowupID: 410449

Reply By: junior - Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 04:32

Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 04:32
Myfourby, ever heard the saying, "don't judge a book by it's cover"??? Mate, there's a word they came up with for people like you- "dogmatist".
Here's a couple of other things 'they' banned which didn't quite work out...

BANNED- disciplining children (in schools or by parents)- that's really worked out for the best huh?
BANNED- teachers telling students they've given a wrong answer when they did 'cause it might f@#k with they 'self esteem'- ahhh, NOW we can can call ourselves the clever country
BANNED- Napster... that just stopped copyright protected file sharing on the internet in it's tracks didn't it?
BANNED- drugs! heh
BANNED- the black cash economy in Oz via the GST.... nope, still alive and strong!
(I give cashy discounts every day!)
BANNED- terrorism- doesn't stop the bastards blowing sh%t up!
etc, etc, etc

A lot of people just don't get it- so much better to encourage/ educate people to do the right thing and punish the few that don't, than to punish all "just in case" they do the wrong thing. People respond better to incentives than to punishments. Better yet- solve the underlying problem instead of patching the sore- This relates directly to track/ area closures- yes we are a growing community (and with every community there is going to be problem element), and this is applying more pressure on the resources and areas in which we conduct our activities, but by closing off more and more of these areas, compounding pressure is inevitably applied to the fewer ones remaining. Meanwhile as our recreation group increases in numbers, the goverment departments whose responsibilties include maintenance of these parks and forests recieve less and less funding each year and more and more power is being given to pencil pushing white collar careerists who have never even seen the bush, let alone see it burn out of control- whoops, almost went of on a whole 'nutha topic there! Plus, don't get me started on the bleeding heart greenies, who do more damage, and leave more crap behind in the bush, every time they wanna climb a tree with a banner.
I am currently less concerned with the state of tracks here in Victoria, than with the infestation of weeds in our parks- anyone had a good look around Walhalla area lately!?

I can't say that I've ever known anyone to go to Bunyip state forest to check out the scenery- it's not a pretty place- never has been. Dirty great powerlines running through the guts, sections of swampland, but mainly mud and clay. It's meant to be a playground to have fun in the mud- or are we to be banned from doing that now (you can go play in the mud without shredding tracks).
As others have said- you are blaming a tyre, which is an extreemly NARROW point of view- I'm sick of living in a world where a minority with their narrow point of view tell the majority what they should be doing.
Are tyres over your 31" in size POLITICALLY INCORRECT now??? Well too f*ckin' bad- I LIKE BEING POLITICALLY incorrect- and I reserve my God and country given right to be so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I BAN YOU from having a voice in the wider community on my behalf- people such as yourself, with your BAN EVERYTHING that might create a problem policy are turning this country into the litigious, bland, directionless and soul-less copy of the USA that it is quickly becoming.

I like being able to choose things for myself- it's been said before, but what a boring place it would be if we were all the same. Some say money is power- rubbish! Choice is power.
Threaten to take away a man's right to choose and you're gunna make that fella stand up on his soapbox and belt out a few choice words- see???........ it worked... my reply and all the others against your post (the majority!!!) are living proof.

I choose to wear 35s, you choose to wear 31s- I choose to wear shorts and shirts, you may choose to wear skirts......... but it's still your choice.

I just came back from Portland last weekend for a play in the sand at the dune buggy club- I drive a dirty old pushrod 4.2 diesel with 35s- yep, I struggled!- but we excell in the high country and mud as we have heaps of traction and great torque, which results in minimal track damage (couldn't get my wheels to spin if I tried!) Anyway- even though we struggled, we left very little evidence of this behind- infact, the next day you couldn't see where any of us (29 vehicles) had been- WHY???... well and sensibly driven vehicles + mother nature ie: wind. An update- there WERE some tracks which were still discernable the next day...those of... a Subaru Brumby!!!- lightweght vehicle, TINY TYRES! (well, a lot smaller than your 31" monsters!- the difference- the Brumby was driven like a cut snake all weekend and was capable of spinning it's tyres easily in the sand. What happened to your generalistic solution now? PS: nothing wrong with the way the Brumby was being driven in this environment as no damage done- ie: proper forum. PPS: Can someone explain to me why beach driving is BANNED in Victoria in un-populated areas- there is no valid environmental explanation.

allanmac856 wrote:
"Couldnt agree more with you Frank & Myfourby. Dont worry though, as before long we wont have to complain, as more & more tracks will be closed. Happening heaps in NSW & now gaining momentum in Vic; places like Bunyip & Gembrook for example."
Allan, you might want to get your facts straight before posting in future- most of the sections of Bunyip State Park that are being shut down is due to the noise of motorbikes "upsetting" neighbouring property owners to the south.
What annoys me, is that these bikes have been going there for years, once again, the minority seems to have gotten their way again. This minority consists and people who have been suckered in to paying too much for a "sea change/ bush change" property close to this well used recreational area. They have made this move looking forward to the 'quiet country life' without doing their research and being aware of this area's level of use until the first weekend living in situ. These new residential (semi-rural) properties are part of the ever-growing urban sprawl into previously rural farming land only. But in a growing trend, instead of blaming themselves for being stoooopid and either dealing with their screw up or moving- they blame the people who have being using this area for years before their arrival.- WHY are we made to sacrifice for these people???????????

If you wanna ban something... BAN STUPID PEOPLE!... BAN YOU!!!
AnswerID: 156401

Follow Up By: allanmac856 - Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 18:08

Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 18:08
Junior, tracks are getting closed at Bunyip ONLY because of the motorbikes are they?. Maybe that is what is said in the papers etc, but that is not the full story. I will not get in a slanging match, but I do have some idea, as a result of my employment.
0
FollowupID: 410802

Follow Up By: junior - Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 18:57

Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 18:57
I don't wanna get into one either Allan, was not my intention, and I apologise if the start of that Bunyip response sounded a bit harsh.
Not ALL track closures there are due to motorbike noise- some are to be trialled with longer than usual seasonal closures due to excessive erosion due to "4wds, HORSES! + weather etc" and possibly permanent closures on Rocky Ridge, Rankins, Sisters etc (purely from memory now- so might not be entirely accurate). But I stand by my original posting re MOST of the sections of Bunyip State Park (namely the southern end)that are being shut down is due to the noise of motorbikes. By the way the south of the park is already effectively closed- the seasonal closures have simply been permanently extended. Anyway, I read the draft proposal a while ago now, that's where I was getting my info- haven't seen anything in any papers.
PS: why don't they put up signs informing of draft props in these areas like we have to when applying for a permit to build a shed, cut down a tree etc......... why, because at the end of the day, they're gunna do what they wanna do- and it's just easier for them if less of we objectores know what's going on till it's too late.
PPS: first thing I knew of tracks around powerlines being illegal was when reading the draft prop- if the land managers were serious about this- once again, why no signs??????????
0
FollowupID: 411072

Follow Up By: allanmac856 - Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 22:19

Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 22:19
No worries Junior. In the heat of the moment, I think a few of us said/wrote things that didnt exactly come out as intended.
Anyway, totally agree with you about signage. Some tracks may have a sign at one end of track ,but not the other. Not everyone visits the Parks Vic site for track closures etc, so if they do close a track, make it easily visable to everyone; & at BOTH ENDS.

Cheers

0
FollowupID: 411107

Reply By: Member - Ed. C.- Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 04:42

Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 04:42
Hmmm....
Maybe I missed it in among all the CR@P about tyre size & "weapons" (a tyre is a "weapon"?????) etc. etc., but it seems to me that one of the *most important* factors (IMO) influencing track surface damage has been overlooked.....

TYRE PRESSURE!!!!!!!!! (sorry for shouting;-)))...

My approach is.... The "tougher" the conditions, the less air the better....

In any given situation, reduced pressures will go a lo-o-o-ng way toward minimising track damage (easier on the vehicle too!), & generally speaking, the larger the tyre (more volume) the lower the pressure required to carry the same weight, therefore a correctly driven vehicle on large tyres & appropriate pressures will do less damage to the surface, so the argument against larger tyres is ill-informed at best...

I'd say that incompetent and ignorant drivers cause far more track damage than tyres do, and 99% of the time, it's partly because they are running TOO-HIGH TYRE PRESSURES!!!! .. (oops, shouting again...sorry;-)))

OK, I'll get off the soap-box now.............

Confucius say.....
"He who lie underneath automobile with tool in hand,
....Not necessarily mechanic!!"

Member
My Profile  Send Message

AnswerID: 156402

Follow Up By: dirtygq - Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 07:10

Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 07:10
As i said QPWS are looking at fining people who do not deflate there tyres. BTW i worked on Peel Island in qld two years ago and no public vehicles are allowed there the middle track had to be resurfaced as there were ruts you could lose a small child in and that was from erosion and ANOREXIC tyres... not big fat tyres as mis uninformed and annoyed at the world "my fourby suggests"
0
FollowupID: 410485

Reply By: Robert - Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 09:07

Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 09:07
I've said it before and I will say it again - the biggest culprits for track damage would have to be the clowns who deliberately go looking for mud!

It certainly doesn't create a good public perception of 4x4 owners, when the public see a 4x4 (especially a lifted 4x4 with large aggressive pattern tyres) totally covered in mud coming back from a days playing on muddy tracks and in bogholes. It gives us all a bad image!

Whether Myfourby is right or wrong he is entitled to air his opinion.
AnswerID: 156428

Follow Up By: junior - Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 12:32

Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 12:32
Yes, he most certainly is entitled to air his opinion. We also retain the right to explain to him why his opinion is biased, narrow and ill-informed.
0
FollowupID: 410525

Follow Up By: dirtygq - Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 15:09

Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 15:09
you are all missing the point in a big way we are talking about "big tyres ruining tracks " not bog holes made by others, how do you know the person who's car is covered in mud has been LOOKING FOR MUD i think all your uninformed opinions suck. If you have mud on your vehicle does that mean you are a enviromental terrorist ? or if your car is clean you are a eco friendly citizen ? How do you know this person or person's you see are not getting covered in mud at private parks designed for 4wding such as LCMP, ROVER PARK and BLACK DUCK VALLEY ? You can get your vehicle covered in mud just driving on dirt roads in the rain if you look at half of the QPWS vehicles they on many occasions are filthyand mud covered ............ yes you are entitled to your opinion but when your opinion is fact not fiction then it may have some clout !!! Until that such time make sure you deflate your cheese cutter tyres and stop ruining tracks !!!
0
FollowupID: 410557

Follow Up By: Robert - Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 15:56

Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 15:56
Com on, who do you think you are kidding.

Big difference between mud on a vehicle from normal driving as compared to a vehicle 100% covered in mud.

Suppose the vehicle I saw the other week, totally covered in mud, with number plates that said "Mr Mud" had not been deliberately out driving through mud!

0
FollowupID: 410565

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 16:59

Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 16:59
Robert.
You have never been driving thru the high country after a week of rain and driving IN the rain?? You dont have to look for mud to get covered in it, just driving around the tracks covers your car. Did the same on the EO weekend we had out the Pyrenees.

I also saw a 40 series with MUDGOD # plates, it had never been offroad.
0
FollowupID: 410780

Follow Up By: Robert - Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 08:40

Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 08:40
" You dont have to look for mud to get covered in it"

I'll agree with that, but I reckon it is a safe bet to say that vehicles one see's coming back from places like Toolangi totally covered in mud, are that way because of drivers who have been there deliberately looking for mud.

If you weren't looking for mud then you wouldn't travel into these areas after they have had significant rain!

0
FollowupID: 410950

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 17:33

Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 17:33
Actually why wouldnt you go up there after rain? Thats when things are more challenging, doesnt mean your looking for mud - usually more of a challenge..

Some people are sick of driving firetrails, and tracks like Rocky track, Vic Range, The teps, Sunset, and more are great fun when they arent dry.

Has nothing to do with trying to 'get dirty' but I suppose the kids like that look. I hate it, takes days to clean the truck again
0
FollowupID: 411036

Reply By: myfourby - Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 15:11

Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 15:11
I'm sorry - have I struck a nerve?

Isn't it funny that when it becomes apparent that the "I own big tyres and I vote" argument hasn't got a leg to stand on, personal insults begin to be used - bring out the tried and trusted scrubby line (please!)- and ganging up with all your mates (even from other forums apparently! - wow - I must have really made the big time!) to ensure that even if someone does disagree, they just couldn't be bothered arguing with the ego's of argumentative big tyre owners. Well -I'm here to tell you - nor could I. I thought I saw the last of this behaviour at pre-school - how wrong I was.

I had forgotten how hard it is to have a decent mature discussion and debate here without this happening.

I wanted to put the suggestion the table - I think I succeeded that far. I was hoping for a few large tyre owners to admit that well oversized tyres 36"+ may have in some way had a negative effect in the last 5 years on the tracks around VIC. But - no - head still well and truly planted in the sand.

It's been fun - but when personal abuse is the only way others think they can succeed when debating - I stop.

-myfourby
AnswerID: 156487

Follow Up By: Robert - Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 16:03

Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 16:03
When people turn to personal abuse, it's usually because they can't justify their argument.

Your comment: "I'm sorry - have I struck a nerve?"

I think for some, it's case of feeling guilty!

0
FollowupID: 410566

Follow Up By: Utemad - Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 18:11

Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 18:11
"I wanted to put the suggestion the table - I think I succeeded that far. I was hoping for a few large tyre owners to admit that well oversized tyres 36"+ may have in some way had a negative effect in the last 5 years on the tracks around VIC. But - no - head still well and truly planted in the sand."

36in is your definition of a large tyre now? I would put money on the fact that very few people (on this forum especially) run tyres 36in and larger outside of competition. Sure there are some guys that do but they must get around a hell of a lot if they are to blame for all the destruction. Especially after you have pointed out that it is only the minority of these drivers that are doing the damage.

If you wanted to have a mature discussion then both parties are required to give a bit. However as you have just said you were hoping for a few large tyre owners to admit that well oversized tyres 36"+ may have in some way had a negative effect in the last 5 years on the tracks around VIC then I suggest you were not here for a mature discussion. Rather you were interested in pushing your opinion onto others.

However I guess you have taken your bat and ball and gone home. How mature.
0
FollowupID: 410590

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 18:43

Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 18:43
Myfourby,

You initially were the provoceteur with the title of the thread:

"All Large 4WD tyres to be made Illegal in OZ"

As far as I'm aware NO large 4WD tyres are illegal in Australia.

Granted there are some limitations on where the can be used, and on what vehicle they can be used, but they are not illegal to own. On private property you can use what you want. On public roads all tyres that are at or above the minimum requirements for the vehicle, and that have speed ratings and (US) DOT or equivalent approval can be used, subject to vehicle compliance with roadworthy regs.

THEY ARE NOT "ILLEGAL", NOR ARE THERE ANY PLANS BY THE GOVT/REGULATORS TO MAKE THEM ILLEGAL!!!!

Get you FACTS straight.

(Haven't you got a bandwagon to catch, or has it stopped in a rut??)

You haven't struck a nerve, so much as left ppl incredulous with your ridiculous suggestion.
0
FollowupID: 410594

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 22:23

Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 22:23
"own big tyres and I vote" argument hasn't got a leg to stand on"

Says who? I see many more against you than in favor of u.
0
FollowupID: 410648

Follow Up By: dirtygq - Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 01:31

Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 01:31
MY FOURBY you have no idea as you see what you want to see you are nothing my friend and know nothing ... i have experience in this field and you don't. so stop babbling because you my friend have absolutely no evidence or understanding so i think you will wake up one day and say yeah they are right and i better not admit it ....
0
FollowupID: 410929

Reply By: Member - Collyn R (WA) - Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 16:11

Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 16:11
I agree mostly with Truckster that a lot of the problem is people attempting go further when the vehicle has lost, or is about to lose traction.

But aggresive tread tyres can cause track damage way even before that point - especially if they scrabble for traction. Unfortunately locking diffs make the damage even worse when these too fail.

As I noted in my earlier posting that my OKA caused quite extraordinary damage on the softer parts of our property on its original (very) aggressive tyres - and very little on road tyres of the same size. I actually saw the original tyres gouging two deep ridges in a bitumen car park the day before I changed them (it was a very hot day ands the bitumin was soft - but other vehicles were causing no damage at all).

Is not the overall problem that there are now so many 4WDs around that if even 001% of them are driven in an anti-social way - that's still one hell of a lot of 4WDs stupidity - and resultant public angst.

Let's not go overboard about this - but I feel we need to accept that some environmentalist criticism is justified -and we should take responsibility for it.

I'm not opposed to large diameter tyres, in fact they often are part of the answer - not part of the problem. But I feel there is no case for overly aggressive treads on tyres of any size - except for competition use on private land (or of course in quarries etc).
Collyn Rivers

AnswerID: 156495

Reply By: dirtygq - Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 16:34

Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 16:34
Why do all tourist bus operators on fraser island run simex tyres and diff locks? Why do they get through in there 10 tonne busses? Why are QPWS now going for a much more aggresive tyre ? It is because on sand and mud they grip and don't bore holes deep like tyres left aimlessly spinning in the mud or sand i was at fraser at xmas and by far the most amount of damage i seen was caused by people on cheese cutter not deflating there tyres. When you walk up a sand dune how do you get up there...? by pushhing your toes into the sand for grip not walking flat feeted straight up the dune .. same with tyres if the grip in a little bit and pull you along it is much better than a guy in a troopy sitting there spinning his wheels on the spot until he is bogged axle deep as i in my patrol 33 muds drive effortlessly str8 around him then hook up my snatch strap and tow him out ...Well not any more i from now on will drive right by those with cheese cutter tyres who refuse to spend a few dollars on buying a decent set of tyres that actually grip rather then spin.. seeing a person with cheese cutters trying to get up a dirt incline that there car or tyres were not designed for and digging up the ground annoys me far more than someone who takes 4wqding seriously and buys the right equipment for the job ...i bet our m/t's cause less carnage then your skinny a/t's and am willing to prove it just name the place here in qld !!!!!!
AnswerID: 156498

Follow Up By: allanmac856 - Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 22:39

Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 22:39
Arent HT tyres better on sand?. According to all the experts they are, with the exception of you obviously. I'm sure you would agree alot of people who travel on Fraser Island are tourists with little or no 4wding experience. Yes, they should know to let their tyres down, but I'm sure many who hire 4wds to these people do not tell them. Also EVERYONE has to learn somewhere, unfortunately some with dire consequences. Not everyone can be a 'gun' 4wder like you, straight out of the box.
0
FollowupID: 410875

Reply By: Shaker - Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 16:43

Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 16:43
myfourby ............. I admire you for having the guts to broach this obviously very sensitive subject, IMHO you are the Pauline Hanson of this 4 wheel drive forum!
Like her you have initiated the most response from those that have some underlying guilt, & most that agree with you are afraid to put their thoughts here in writing, for fear of written abuse & vilification.

I don't understand why people need these massively oversized illegal tyres either, or 6 or 8 driving lights making their vehicle look like it belongs to some Southern American red neck.

It was the people that just can't keep out of the mud that caused the owners of Bollards Lagoon Station to close the Bore Track for a period of time, as she said to me, despite repeated requests from her to go around the bog holes in their track, some idiots (her words) just couldn't help themselves but to ignore the request & cut up the track even more.
As far as rain eroding the tracks, it is certainly a fact on sloping ground, but what about all the bogholes on level ground where there is no flow in the ground water?

Once again, myfourby, congratulations!
AnswerID: 156501

Follow Up By: Robert - Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 07:59

Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 07:59
Well said Shaker!
0
FollowupID: 410680

Follow Up By: Joe King - Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 08:09

Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 08:09
great point shaker, the bogholes on level groung, I watch eagerly for an explanation to that, you watch, feral pigs will get the blame for that one.
Pauline for PM
0
FollowupID: 410945

Follow Up By: junior - Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 19:24

Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 19:24
I think you'll find that the majority of bogholes on so called level ground are at the bottom of hills and are in fact in a low lying depression- thus with a very modest amount of rain, the run-off pools in this area and without the opportunity to drain properly, the water sits there till it either soaks through the ground below or eventually evaporates. This then makes the ground in such a spot extreemely 'soft', and the people approaching the climb from which the water originally came are possibly trying to hit the hill with as much momentum/speed as possible in order to make the climb- how many baby killing tyre wearing dudes are going to have to approach the climb like that???- not many- usually it's gunna be the 'under-tyred' guys who can't just crawl up it!
0
FollowupID: 411082

Follow Up By: junior - Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 19:36

Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 19:36
PS: ever notice that the majority of these low lying holes are in pairs- people have made a choice to not go through the boghole and create a go-around... but behold, in no time at all a new boghole forms next to the original due to the reasons listed above and also sheer vehicle numbers.
0
FollowupID: 411084

Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 20:56

Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 20:56
Drive along the Crooked River Track & you will find that the bog holes are not at the 'bottom of hills'.

Yes, you are right about the 'go around' or so called 'chicken track', the created bogholes end up 2 or 3 or even 4 times as big.

It's like trees across the track, some are too lazy to cut it away, & just bash & crash their way through the bush to get around, & just to pre-empt some answers, if you don't have a chain saw, you shouldn't be there, or you can go back the way you came!
0
FollowupID: 411097

Follow Up By: junior - Saturday, Feb 25, 2006 at 02:18

Saturday, Feb 25, 2006 at 02:18
On the cutting through fallen trees thing- why in hell does everyone cut through them so close to the track- why not make the cuts beyond the edge of the track and not just a bees' d&%k wider than ya truck??? Never got that one!!!!!!!!!
0
FollowupID: 411126

Reply By: dirtygq - Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 17:17

Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 17:17
As i said shaker mr myfourby is just annoyed that he cannot make the grade and wants to judge everyone else who can .
What i can't see the point in is people like you who constantly rant and rave about this ruining this and these people wrecking that but i guarantee you that it is driver error not big tyres that erode ground. What else i can't see the point in is you owning a 4wd to do leisurely drives you could probably do in a commodore or falcon. You are the guilty one because you are a yuppy 4wder who has no idea and ruin the ground by getting bogged when you go 4wding half heartedly.If governments are going to ban anything they should people that don't use there 4wd's ..USE IT OR LOSE AND STOP BEING A NARROW MINDED FOOL!
AnswerID: 156506

Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 17:40

Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 17:40
Do I know you? Or are you just a ranting fool?
0
FollowupID: 410582

Reply By: dirtygq - Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 18:15

Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 18:15
Why would i know you and why would i want to you are the red neck talking about pauline hanson too,go back to watching today tonight a for god sakes get a life mate!
AnswerID: 156516

Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 18:51

Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 18:51
Just in case it is has escaped your notice there is a follow up button, you don't have to create a new reply each time.

Now, for some reason you have chosen to make this thread a personal attack, probably as you have you no real argument to offer against the original post.

FYI, I live right on the edge of the Victorian high country approx 20kms from Walhalla, I spend heaps of time up here right through from Licola, Dargo, Crooked River, Aberfeldy etc etc, & what sickens me is the damage caused by the weekend warriors, possibly like yourself, that come up here & do irreparable damage to the environment.
I have also done several Outback trips, including the Simpson desert, so I am far from what you describe as a 'yuppy 4wdriver that does halfhearted leisurely drives'

Oh, & yes I am probably watching Today Tonight, while you are more likely watching The Simpsons!
0
FollowupID: 410596

Follow Up By: dirtygq - Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 19:31

Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 19:31
Look we all know some people ruin the environment but saying that there is too many other factors involved rather than trying to blame large tyres and aggresive tyre you may believe you are right in thinking that these large and aggresive tyres, but i say and know mate you are looking in the wrong area as i know what ruins tracks and the environment is people getting bogged and not sticking to designated tracks. As i said in recent posts is that i have seen tracks that no public person has ever used that needed to be resurfaced as they have 1 metree deep holes in them , no big tyre or aggresive tyre were instrumental in the degrading of these tracks as the only vehicles that use them are national parks 4wd's . Which were narrow tyred. The other thing i know that ruins the tracks are people not set up or not deflating tyres enough to go to there desired destination without struggling and getting bogged .I know that in any vehicle you have to know your limits and yes some people keep trying and end up destroying the tracks. Also sickens me when people leave rubbish behind as well or do donuts and rip buggery out of an area
0
FollowupID: 410609

Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 19:33

Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 19:33
At least we agree on something! :o)
0
FollowupID: 410610

Follow Up By: junior - Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 23:51

Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 at 23:51
"Oh, & yes I am probably watching Today Tonight, while you are more likely watching The Simpsons!"......... ROFL!!! Yep, Today Tonight, A Current Affair- populous recycled 'fluff'- are you serious, why waste your time?- you could have at least said '4 Corners'! As it stands, the bloke watching 'The Simpsons' is at least being entertained as an intelligent adult with at times a level of wit and irony beyond most.
0
FollowupID: 410668

Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 09:23

Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 09:23
No wonder you use the nickname ....... junior!

If you read my reply in context, I said 'probably' & only made reference to 'Today Tonight' because it was the program mentioned by dirtygq.
0
FollowupID: 410693

Follow Up By: junior - Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 16:12

Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 16:12
heh heh...... yep, you got me- that's why I have a big lift and big baby killer tyres- I'm compensating!
PS: at least I can laugh at myself as well as others... like you wern't trying to insult dirtygq when you made the Simpsons comment... touchy touchy!
PPS: My big, environment raping, bush pillaging weapon of mass destruction wearing, monster truck also wears a rubbish bag on the spare tyre. Every time I go out- every can/ piece of rubbish I see on a track goes into it (usually come home with more of others' rubbish than my own)- not a massive contribution, but a real-world contribution none the less- but unfortunately people such as yourself and Myfourby etc would take me on face value because of the way my truck looks- when coming to such conclusions about people based on the way they look, it's called biggottry or racism (and no I'm not calling anyone a biggot)- it may seem like a long stretch, but I think this is part of the reason Myfourby has invoked such heated responses, seriously- because he is making a judgement about people based on the way their truck looks, not on the way in which they conduct themselves.
You've already agreed on this in part- so herein lies the problem with generalistic so called "solutions" such as a blanket ban.
0
FollowupID: 410766

Follow Up By: junior - Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 16:28

Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 16:28
oops- accidentaly posted when still on soapbox.
How about we all start making some sort of real world contributions and perhaps suggest some contructive ways of improving the state of tracks etc on this forum.
Anyone got some new fresh ideas????????
Most on here are members of clubs- many of these clubs do clean-up days in the bush- go along sometime if you haven't before.
Also, if you see someone driving in a destructive manner, point out to them the damage they're doing not only to the environment and tracks, but also to our reputation and future of our recreational activity.
I know personally, I have done the wrong thing before- on one occassion doing some 'circle work' in a clearing- another driver pointed out to me the damage and it was his disappointment more than anything that woke me up!
So get out there and contribute and also educate- yes, some will not listen- for them, report to the authorities.
Just thought of an idea- on a first offence in the bush- instead of paying an arbitrary fine, the offender has to pay their way on a 4wd training day, with a 'tread lightly' emphassis.
OK, enough, I'm off the box!!! :-)
0
FollowupID: 410772

Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 16:33

Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 16:33
It may not be a massive contribution but it all helps, I also have a rubbish bag mounted on my spare & do the same thing, sometimes it can take almost an hour of tidying before we put the CT up.

If you read the above posts you will see that the first stone was in fact cast by dirtygq, but in the end we did at least agree on something.
Also myfourby wasn't judging people with his comment, he was just remarking that the oversize tyres dig deeper trenches, which is an undeniable fact. I don't judge people on how the how the their truck looks, but I am sure that the average non 4WD person does.
Unfortunately a few thin skinned people took it as personal insult & replied on the offensive.
0
FollowupID: 410774

Follow Up By: dirtygq - Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 16:37

Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 16:37
Hey junior good stuff piucking up rubbish people like my fourby do judge people on what sort of truck they drive and this is why the world is so messed up !! But mr myfourby is entitled to his view as wrong as they are . he has to be reall mad that he got humiliated at gembrook and got stuck with no recovery gear so he has to blame someone. Poor sole he is with. Maybe we should all go out and get cheese cutter tyres that way we would all be bogged with myfourby secretly wishing we had someone to blame .. So myfourby if everyone gets banned from using big tyres then you find that areas are torn to buggery even worse then before who will you blame then ...? trail bike riders...horses ...bushwalkers ...yetti's ...who ?
0
FollowupID: 410776

Follow Up By: junior - Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 17:04

Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 17:04
Yep- it amazes me just how much rubbish is out there! You can almost understand the occassional indiscretion with the right foot when a rush of blood takes over- but why oh why do people throw rubbish out the window? Even on made roads, I don't get it- where do they think it gunna go???
0
FollowupID: 410782

Follow Up By: dirtygq - Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 17:17

Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 17:17
People don't care that is plain and simple they come and use the bush and abuse it leaving there rubbish behind.
They don't bury there portaloo contents properly or dig a hole and fill it they just don't care they only abuse the bush because they are selfish fools.. and by the way SHAKER the comment you made about bigger tyres digging bigger holes is not undeniable in the slightest ...any tyre can do damage to the bush but at the end of the day mother nature indeed finishes the process. I know that there is fools of all type of tyre size but hey generalisation is what starts racism and hate ..and none of us want that . Hey lets ban fools who disrespect tracks and the environment not tyres that are part of the solution!!!
0
FollowupID: 410786

Follow Up By: dirtygq - Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 17:20

Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 17:20
P.S. education is the most important thing ,i agree .
0
FollowupID: 410789

Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 20:26

Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 20:26
We had the Erica/Moondara bushfires come within a couple of Kms of our property, & while they were at their peak, I was following a vehicle that threw a lit cigarette out of their vehicle window!
I now have both EPA numbers programmed into my phone, as far as I'm concerned it is now zero tolerance!
0
FollowupID: 410833

Follow Up By: Joe King - Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 08:22

Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 08:22
it would be great if the epa could employ something like "Bush Police", that go out to popular 4x4 places on weekends & book the people who do the damage, I'd put my hand up, just pay for my fuel. I don't agree that large tyres do the damage, its the loose nut in the drivers seat, big or small tyres, who do the damage
erosion is a fact of life, idiots in/on anything make it worse...
0
FollowupID: 410947

Follow Up By: dirtygq - Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 14:45

Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 14:45
I agree with you " joe king" that there needs to be rules enforced especially with deflating tyres. QPWS are pushing for air down rules that carry a penalty.We ALL need to care for these natural places because when our kids are older where will they go..
0
FollowupID: 411012

Follow Up By: Goughy - Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 15:14

Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 15:14
Joe & Dirty,
I agree totally, I think its just like anything else, use common sense & everything falls into place.
My Missus works for QPWS/EPA, I will ask her what they have in place already, if anything.
0
FollowupID: 411016

Reply By: allanmac856 - Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 18:43

Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 18:43
Unfortunately, this thread has now degenerated to personal insults, which was one of the reasons I enjoy this forum, because it rarely happened here, unlike some other forums.

Myfourby has expressed an opinion, which many may disagee with, but no need to call him a wanker, not macho enough to cut it etc. Truckster said the key issue is the irresponsible driver, whether it be on 31's or 35's, which I totally agree with. I have been out with many people who have standard & modified vehicles. I find most with the standard type vehicles do not push the boundaries. I have also been out with a few 4wders who have the big tyres/lifts who are no different, do not try to find the limit, but can travel along tracks a little easier & less stress on their vehicles. Then there are those who, because they have fitted the bigger tyres, had body lifts etc, believe they are god & can conquer any terrain. I couldnt care less if you want to fit bigger tyre, get body lifts etc, but for the MAJORITY who do so is not to make life easier, it is to find more challenging stuff.

For those who think myfourby, myself & some others are 'losers' etc & shouldn't be out there; well my job does give me some insight to what may or maynot happen in Victoria at least. Whilst I do not listen to much of the stuff that is said, every now & then a subject comes up that does interest me. Doent' be suprised if many more tracks get closed & there is a blitz on illegal/unroadworthy 4wd's in the near future.

How do I have some idea?, I have those who run this state sit in the passenger seat in a car. Start thinking about it if all of us want to continue to enjoy getting out in the bush. Dont believe me, actually I dont give a rats, but I maybe one day I can say; " I told you so"
AnswerID: 156713

Follow Up By: dirtygq - Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 01:35

Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 01:35
Mate stop masquerading as a government figure because there is laws against it ..
Just be careful that is all.......
0
FollowupID: 410930

Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 08:40

Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 08:40
> Doent' be suprised if many more tracks get closed & there is a blitz on illegal/unroadworthy 4wd's in the near future.

Nothing new about that, it's been done before.
0
FollowupID: 410949

Reply By: dirtygq - Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 20:02

Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 20:02
I disagree totally and really do think you are ill informed to say the majority and if you believe it is the majority show me the proof .
AnswerID: 156733

Follow Up By: allanmac856 - Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 22:58

Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 22:58
IMO, your follow up post 410369 is reasonable proof. I have also been out with guys who began their 4wding with pretty standard rigs. Tend to be reasonably cautious & tend to bypass tracks, especially mud/bog holes. Then get their big tyres/lifts etc & believe they & their vehicles are invincible & give everything a go. Get stuck, keep going forwards/backwards churning up the track, then eventually concide & get snatched out. These guys are not the 'lone rangers'; it happens all the time. Just read some trip reports on other forums.
0
FollowupID: 410881

Reply By: Hoonz - Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 20:31

Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 at 20:31
i wish this thread was banned ...
AnswerID: 156741

Reply By: dirtygq - Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 00:41

Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 00:41
well that is still not proof in my eyes...that just proves you know some fools who are try hards .. the debate was over tyres that were big wrecking the environment and tracks .. not what a few mindless people do ... if i get stuck i stop and reverse and then forward if that doesn't work i get recovery happening .. My kids (2 girls) hate people who wreck the bush and they would kill me if i did . THE END ....
AnswerID: 156793

Reply By: allanmac856 - Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 12:11

Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 12:11
OK Dirty, I'm guilty of having a go at you, for which I regret, so I appologise. Let's agree to disagree. It is not worth causing grief to those who visit this forum.

Cheers
AnswerID: 156849

Reply By: flappa - Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 14:50

Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 14:50
Well thats 30 mins of my life I wont get back.
AnswerID: 156877

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 23:15

Friday, Feb 24, 2006 at 23:15
hehehehehe

Just thinking the same thing as I waded through the whole sorry saga too.

What a friggin storm in a teacup!!!!!
0
FollowupID: 411118

Follow Up By: Member - Bware - Saturday, Feb 25, 2006 at 05:14

Saturday, Feb 25, 2006 at 05:14
Yeah, I can't believe this post is still going! But here I am keeping it going :(
0
FollowupID: 411127

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (13)