A BIG THANK YOU

Submitted: Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 21:36
ThreadID: 31224 Views:2835 Replies:21 FollowUps:45
This Thread has been Archived
This is more a statement rather than a discussion so respond if you insist but leave it there.

I would like to thank all who have contacted me over the last few days to congratulate me on the article Battery Power your e-mail's are a welcomed and appreciated.

Thank you also to Michelle and David who are both fantastic and a pleasure to deal with Michelle knows the market and knows ExporOz like the back of her hand.

ExplorOz is a great site and I look forward to a continued loyal following and support from customers and members.

Regards Derek Bester.
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Reply By: gqpat - Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 21:59

Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 21:59
Hi Derek your article is very helpful but with one mistake and the same mistake every batt isolator producer makes .These solenoids that are conected to dual batt systems should never be called true battery isolators .They only join batterys together at a predeterined time .This process in it self which anygood auto elect or enginner will know can have the opposite effect ie when a good FULLY charge batt is connected to a Flat batt you will have a large current discharge from the full batt into the flat batt and their is no way to avoid this as it is a law of electricity therfore over a short drive you may end up with two Half charged batts.
The Only TRUE BATT ISOLATOR on the market are the unitrs which use two high current diodes to direct current from a alternator to each batt then and only then are the batts truely isolated
I know all these systems do work i just wish people would name them currectly...
AnswerID: 157391

Follow Up By: ACDC - Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 22:11

Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 22:11
So whats the alternator doing? nothing!!
We all know diode isolators don't do the job if your main battery is full and only accepting a few amps thats all your second battery will get regardless if its flat or not.
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Follow Up By: Mike DiD - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 02:12

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 02:12
"therfore over a short drive you may end up with two Half charged batts. "

- no, this doesn't happen. I've actually tested it. To charge a battery you need a higher voltage than a battery puts out when it is being discharged.

You will get limited charge transfer over a day - not charge equalisation.

The bucket analogy is not valid for batteries.

Mike
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Follow Up By: Member - Tony G (ACT) - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 07:53

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 07:53
He did go on to say the prefered method was the automatic isolator.

I have used the solenoid isolator for the past 30 years in all my 4WD's and never had a problem, when they are working that is. Had to replace them with new ones every 3-4 years. But for the price they work.
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Follow Up By: Mainey (WA) - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 12:46

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 12:46
Tony, how do you replace the 'faulty' solenoid isolator that you say fails every 3-4 years when your out in the bush?

Wouldn't it be far cheaper and more convenient in the first place to buy a "decent" quality product, not only would it do the job more efficiently :-) but it will definately last longer, after all most do have a 5 year warranty... and you won't have to worry about loosing food in the fridge because you baught a low quality, low cost product.
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Follow Up By: Member - Tony G (ACT) - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 13:40

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 13:40
I carry a spare. Anyway what good is a 5 year warranty when you are out in the bush.
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Follow Up By: Mainey (WA) - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 14:23

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 14:23
Tony, using a quality product with a 5 year warranty gives you piece of mind, also more money in the bank account, more space and less weight and it just sits there working, probably forever L0L

You have bought at least 10 solenoids (with spares) minium, so you have spent more than the price a good Rotronics system without the Rotronics benefits.

That's obviously your choice :-)
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Follow Up By: Member - Tony G (ACT) - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 14:36

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 14:36
Thats the one good thing about peace of mind, I know that the battery charging system of my choice will always be working. So who cares about the 5 year warranty, and I can afford to carry spares when I travel. That way I'm self relient and not have to worry about the food going off.

I also have 12 volt gauge on my three aux battries so at a glance I can see whats happening. The end of the day what works for you and me is what we live with.
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 22:10

Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 22:10
Gee, you been to the Bill S school of Spamming I see ?
AnswerID: 157393

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 22:22

Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 22:22
Ps... Could you have copied ARB's logo, and fonts any more?

Trying to cash in on their name?
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Follow Up By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 22:33

Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 22:33
Good one trukster. My first thought, but I was too 'nice' to post it.

Self serving posts on net forums often bite you on the bum. Hope this one doesn't bite him too hard; he is an advertiser after all.
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Reply By: Andrew (Whyalla SA) - Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 22:26

Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 22:26
ARB called and they want their logo back

LOLOL
AnswerID: 157397

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 22:42

Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 22:42
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Reply By: Jimbo - Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 22:36

Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 22:36
Having read some of the above innuendo......this could get ugly.

I'll remain silent.
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Follow Up By: Andrew (Whyalla SA) - Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 22:39

Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 22:39
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 22:58

Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 22:58
You missed this one AJ


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Follow Up By: geocacher (djcache) - Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 23:34

Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 23:34
Hi Truckster & others,

Actually he could be in strife - not could be probably is I would have thought. This forum post could provide substantial evidence in ARB's case due to the number of us that picked the similarity.

I picked the similarity as soon as he started advertising here. I thought it was a bit cheeky and it reminded me of a local case where "Lonestar Steakhouse & Saloon" or what ever that now defunct franchise of restaraunts was called took a small business here in town to court for naming a bar Lonestar Saloon. The franchise won.

Interesting read below for those who have picked the similarity. (I've edited out some irrelevant bits but the full sheet can be found with a quick google)

Dave

______________________________________________________
Australian Copyright Council Information Sheet G28 Logos: legal protection 3

Infringement
If a logo is protected by copyright, it will usually be an infringement to reproduce it without permission from the copyright owner. If the logo is very simple, there may be no infringement if the logo is not copied exactly.

Generally, however, reproducing part of a work without permission—even a small part—infringes copyright if it is
an important or recognisable part.

Making changes to a logo does not overcome infringement
Note that there is no rule in copyright law that permits reproduction of a logo if a percentage of it is changed, or if a certain number of alterations are made. If you can put the two logos side by side and identify important parts from the original that have been copied, it is likely that an important part of the original has been reproduced.

For example, the "Aussie Home Loans" logo consisting of three rectangles on top of each other, incorporating the three words and topped by a triangle, to represent a house was found to be protected by copyright as an artistic work. Copyright in this work was held to have been infringed by a rival company using a similar logo in which the
word "loans" was replaced by "builders". A number of other changes had been made, including the addition of a chimney and changes to the font, proportions of the triangles and shading, but the court had no difficulty in finding that the overall appearance of the two logos was so similar that infringement had taken place.

For further information on infringement, see our information sheet Infringement: what can I do?

Trade marks
A logo may be protected by copyright and also protected as a trade mark. A person who reproduces the logo without permission may then infringe both copyright and any trade mark rights. The Trade Marks Act 1995 (Cth) provides a formal system of registration for signs such as names, logos and other distinctive aspects of a product or packaging. Unlike copyright, protection under the Trade Marks Act depends on
registration and payment of a fee. Only marks inherently capable of distinguishing the traders’ goods or services can be registered.

Registration provides protection against other individuals or companies using the same or a deceptively similar mark in the course of trade. Trade marks are registered at IP Australia. IP Australia has its
head office in Canberra and sub-offices in each State capital city. It can be contacted at: 1300 651 010 or via its website at www.ipaustralia.gov.au.

If a trade mark has not been registered, a person using it may still have rights against others using it or a similar mark.

“Passing off” & consumer protection laws
A company or business that has an established reputation may be able to take legal action against another person who “cashes in” on that reputation in the market place. For example, a person using a name or logo connected with a product in a way that misrepresents the origin of the product, or suggests an endorsement which has not been given, may be in breach of laws such as “passing off”, the Trade Practices Act 1974 (Cth) or the fair trading laws which operate in the States and Territories.

For further information see www.artslaw.com.au or a private solicitor with expertise in these areas.
Further information
For further information about copyright, see our website: www.copyright.org.au or contact us.
Information from the Arts Law Centre of Australia may also be of interest to you: www.artslaw.com.au; phone
(02) 9356 2566.
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Follow Up By: Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 08:23

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 08:23
Nice to see these logo's in question all on one page.

No they don't look the same.

AFFORDABLE BATTERIES & RADIATORS

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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 12:15

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 12:15
Try it with your glasses on.
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 15:43

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 15:43
I would have to say that the only bloke I know who would look at those 2 or 3 logos and think they were/are the same would be one MISTER DES LEXIC..............cos you'd have to be either suffering from dislexia or be somewhat P I S S E D out your brain not to pick the difference IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hahahahahaha Good onya Derek....one for the little bloke!!!!
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Follow Up By: Scoey - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 16:25

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 16:25
*Sigh* at last! Someone who uses common sense! :-D Good to see!
Cheers
Scoey!
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) aka The Vanquished - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 22:40

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 22:40
Geez Guys cant you see its SPELLED differunt

ABR

ARB

Its totally different

Sheesh some families..........................

You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose
But you cant pick your friends nose
.
Time is an illusion produced by the passage of history
.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 23:47

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 23:47
Wipe that brown chit off your nose Roachie.... then put your coke bottles back on and look again
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Saturday, Mar 04, 2006 at 01:42

Saturday, Mar 04, 2006 at 01:42
Your right, it is obvious, when it is side by side. But I bet his shop isnt next door to ARB's is it?
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Mar 04, 2006 at 17:44

Saturday, Mar 04, 2006 at 17:44
Fisho, it maynot be next door but its highly illegal to breach copyright.
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Sunday, Mar 05, 2006 at 01:29

Sunday, Mar 05, 2006 at 01:29
quote....I would have to say that the only bloke I know who would look at those 2 or 3 logos and think they were/are the same would be one MISTER DES LEXIC....unquote

thats what I mean truck, its easy to see they are different side by side, but the shops arent so if you were driving past or received an email you may not pick it straight away.

my point is, if he knows his stuff, he is devaluing himself by copying, if he doesnt then hes just a scammer
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Reply By: fisho64 - Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 22:40

Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 22:40
Afraid to say that I had thought the logo WAS a p!sstake until just now.
Not sure how many others will think that also?
I would honestly suggest you use a logo that DOESNT clone an existing high profile, so that the effort you put into building your business is taken seriously? I cant imagine that no one else has suggested that though.
In this day and age of internet fraud and spam email etc, if I got an email with that logo on I would delete it straight away as a scam?
That is unless it is a clone business or perhaps it IS part of ARB??
AnswerID: 157403

Follow Up By: Andrew (Whyalla SA) - Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 22:45

Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 22:45
Opposed Lock
TMJ
4x4 WAREHOUSE
CompPro

Are all still available.......
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 10:09

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 10:09
GOLD!!!!!!!!!!!

Your on fire AJ, must be that KTM in the wings..
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) aka The Vanquished - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 22:44

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 22:44
TMJ is taken, its on my car rego plate, am I in trouble ?
.
Time is an illusion produced by the passage of history
.

Lifetime Member
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FollowupID: 411982

Reply By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 22:48

Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 22:48
But despite this (unfortunately invited) critisism, the article is pretty good. Apart from a couple of issues raised previously (how to quote cable size, perhaps how an 'isolator' works) it is very good introduction to this subject.

You seem to have been looking for praise, so you have some.
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Reply By: revhead307 - Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 22:53

Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 22:53
In times gone by bards waxed lyric of intrigue and of humour. They mocked Kings and men (no politically correct comments about women here please)

I am afraid i cannot do them justice, However:

A poo by any other name still reeks like a B1tch

Cheers Derek old bean.

I also would like to throw my hat in the ring, and congratulate you on your ability to self promote at the annoyance of all who pass this electronically cobblestoned path.

Rev
AnswerID: 157406

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff H (QLD) - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 02:54

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 02:54
Rev,
perhaps a hard case , but also a quiet light.
I'm very ham-fisted by comparison.
(Accountant!! Should I be so lucky as to have a taxable income, I would certainly look under "R")
Just by the way, on a recent Radio National programme they interviewed that goose who does 'claymations' (Soo Good)
His accountant commented that, to spend 4 years to produce a 20 minute clip must be like following the drying of paint.
To which 'Our Lad' replied
.............................................and you're an Accountant!!
Just gotta love this site - aint we all brilliant ?
Jeff H.
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Reply By: Member - Jeff H (QLD) - Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 23:04

Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 23:04
revhead,
Your screen name belies your (perhaps suppressed) education.
Behave!
Jeff H.
AnswerID: 157407

Follow Up By: revhead307 - Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 23:14

Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 23:14
You words are too kind to be sure.

Just a mere accountant sir, with a taste for things mechanical.

Your pardon m'lord.

Rev
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Reply By: Utemad - Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 23:38

Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 23:38
Sorry guys but I beat you all.

Welcome to two weeks ago
AnswerID: 157421

Reply By: Mainey (WA) - Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 23:56

Monday, Feb 27, 2006 at 23:56
Derek,
Two quick ‘things’- your battery power link statement "fuses are a cause of voltage drop and will decrease the charge rate of the auxiliary battery" should go a bit further and then advise people to select a fuse that will NOT cause any voltage drop, and furthermore should nominate those fuses that produce 'zero' voltage drop, don't you agree?

The picture you have used of the 'Anderson plug' with the loose red heat-shrink that does not even penetrate into the Anderson plug itself and is about to fall down behind the vehicle side-wall is obviously a picture you have included showing how NOT to install wiring and you have 'borrowed' it from a 'don't do it this way' file somewhere.... I hope!

I think you should have proof read the information before you linked it.

Remember the old adage, you learn from your mistakes ?

As others have also pointed out a distinct and individualistic logo would be far more appropriate and informative, it could be designed to more clearly show your business acumen and workmanship capabilities, to simply copy another high profile companies logo really does show's a total lack of integrity, honesty and style, and would give prospective customers the idea that you have not got a lot of superior and individual ideas, because you just copy the others with-in your field, don’t you think?
AnswerID: 157423

Follow Up By: Mr E - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 00:51

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 00:51
Hi Mainey,
You got to be kidding...
Problem with the heatshrink??
Come on, stop trying to nit pick negative things about somebody like exploreoz serving to further our hobby.
The heatshrink in the pic is to just make a nice finish to the job and maybe create a little more abrasive wear against the sidewall and also keep the black and red cable togather in a neat run. Heatshrink is usually used to cover up solder joins but keeping 2 cables together is fine.
Man, (and to others),
let's keep this forum to a nice helpful sharing envionment, not a nit-picking one.

I think the battery article was a good broad non-technical overview, which has a good place on this website, because it alerts entry 4wd'ers to the fact that their new $80k shopping cart may need some mods to make it more reliable and comfortable in the bush.

Also to you and others, don't bag a service provider to our own hobby (ABR).
ooh I promoted a company in my post...
If for not them, and their competitors, I would have to design and make all my own gear.
So what about his logo.

Go out for a drive, and let's keep it real.

Mr E
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Follow Up By: Member - Andrew W (SA) - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 08:17

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 08:17
hear hear
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Follow Up By: Mainey (WA) - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 13:28

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 13:28
The point I'm making is, if I had actually paid a company to fit the Anderson plug and it came back to me looking like that, I would then remove it and fix it myself, and then I would not have to worry about the wiring that is hidden behind the wall, and wonder if it's likely to rub and cause my 4DW to burn to the ground, because the fuse is, as said in another post, to be put fitted at the far end of the battery supply cable and not at the (+) terminal of the battery as BMW do in their vehicles.

To publish a picture that is purporting to be your own work and is meant to show the high quality of your workmanship, that however actually clearly shows the faulty fitment of the heat-shrink is something I would not expect from a company that says prides it's-self on 'quality' workmanship...

Mr E, take a second look at the same picture and then tell me you can see a red and also a BLACK wire used with the Anderson plug, or is it only 2 x red wires, then tell me I'm only nit picking and being negative.
If you take the vehicle to a qualified Auto sparky and he uses only red wires for both POS (+) and also NEG (-) leads, would you then ask questions about competency ???

Maybe I'm just a Virgo perfectionist - (Ahhh, yes I know I am)
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Follow Up By: Nebster - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 13:58

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 13:58
But there is a red and a black wire inside the red heat shrink.

Maybe a neater way would have been put a rubber grommet in the hole cut for the wires to come though, he does mention use rubber grommets when routing cable through metal.
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Follow Up By: Mainey (WA) - Sunday, Mar 05, 2006 at 00:09

Sunday, Mar 05, 2006 at 00:09
Nebster, I've enlarged it and looked a second and even a tenth time and it still looks like two red wires, one at the right that's clearly visable and one at the side/back of it, look at the picture and see where the wires are actually going to.... are they reflections or shadows??
A neater way would have been to extend the heatshrink into the plug so no cables were visable - then this post would not exist L0L
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Follow Up By: Leroy - Sunday, Mar 05, 2006 at 08:44

Sunday, Mar 05, 2006 at 08:44
Your eye's are painted on Mainey.....go get'em checked. There is a red and a black wire and heat shrink wrapped around both wires to keep them together. It's also probably there to protect the cables as they pass through the hole.

A satisfactory installation by someone that's not anally retentive!

Leroy
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Reply By: Member - Jeff H (QLD) - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 03:04

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 03:04
my goodness.
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Reply By: Moggs - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 07:29

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 07:29
Too much Derek! - your continual self promotion is beyond anything I have ever seen on this forum throughout the years. Combined with your stupid attempt to piggy-back some business via a logo rip-off I reckon you don't have much of a future in the industry - your ability to promote is abrupt and inept at best.

If you wanted to thank those who blew smoke up your you know what then why not MM or email them - this whole thread should junked. To be honest, I would rather drink warm beer than buy anything from you.

...and to David and Michelle - how far are you going to let this go - it is your site reputation and credibility that is sufferring. How long before we see a string of these 'eBayers' and your core membership base fades away.

Absolutely had a gutful - I tend to not read posts that piss me off - however it is pretty hard to avoid Derek - he is in everything!
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 10:11

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 10:11
>>> I would rather drink warm beer than buy anything from you.

HAHAHAHAHAHHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BETTER THAN GOLD!
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Follow Up By: Member - Pezza (QLD) - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 18:43

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 18:43
"your continual self promotion is beyond anything I have ever seen on this forum throughout the years"

Not too sure about that mate, reckon Billy boy would give him a good run for his money!

Avagoodn
Pezza
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Mar 04, 2006 at 17:42

Saturday, Mar 04, 2006 at 17:42
ah yes pezza, but some threads get deleted for less.
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Reply By: Member - Oldplodder (QLD) - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 09:38

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 09:38
Derek,

Thanks for your posts, and your input noe to the techinical info on the web site. Couple of points I am not sure about but that is up to me to research. Science only progresses by new ideas being put forward by people and checked by thier peers.

They are helpful at times, and you are honest enough to put your logo on, so if I want to ignore your post, it stands out enough that I just pass over.

A range of views and information from people with various backgrounds is what keeps this forum interesting and informative.

All of us are a little one eyed in certain situations.
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Reply By: Scoey - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 09:57

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 09:57
Deadset you lot will get your bloody knickers in a knot over anything! Are any of you shareholders of ARB or have some other sort of invested interest with the company??? If not, WHO BLOODY CARES if his logo looks a bit like ARB??? How the hell does it affect you?? Answer: IT DOESN"T!!!! Use this site for what it is - a very helpful and informative site for all things offroad and camping/caravanning and if you don't like someone's thread then there's a very handy little button up the top left hand corner of the screen - it's labelled "Back" Press it and all will be better! It's not threads like this that give the site a bad rep - it's the forum nazi's that feel it's their job to police every single bloody thread that make people think that it's not worth the fuss posting anything for fear of retribution. Or maybe that's the way you all want it! Right, I'm gonna go sit down and have a cup of tea and do what all you whingers should do - Get over it.

PS - If you think a thread's content is inappropriate, hit the "Aert Moderator" button and let them deal with it. It's thier site; not yours.

Scoey
Out.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 10:15

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 10:15
>> Are any of you shareholders of ARB
Yes..
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Follow Up By: Scoey - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 11:06

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 11:06
Well mate I'm sure when this bloke steals all of ARB's business and their share prices plummet you'll be broke so my advice to you, sell! SELL SELL!! If this thread's any indication the shares will be as good as worthless in no time! They may just be making a stink out of nothing but? Or was that my point?
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Follow Up By: Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 12:05

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 12:05
Thanks Scoey your are quite right.

Internet sales have doubled in the last 48 hours.

Try Googleing me Derek Bester and see...

I now have almost 3 pages. (WOW !)

A BIG THANK YOU to all who responded.

Kind Regards Derek Bester.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 15:36

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 15:36
>>>Internet sales have doubled in the last 48 hours.

What you sold 2 items?? ROTFLMAO
Was it an ARB Bar and ARB recovery kit?

I must admit when searching for 4wd accessories on google, I'd search for your name personally not a company name..

YMWVYAF.
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Reply By: revhead307 - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 11:44

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 11:44
The lesson to be learnt here is one of human nature and how it relates to business.

Personally I am interested in the type of things Derek sells, they are relevant to this forum. I read the article and for what it is, it has value and is starting point for people researching their systems. I cast no aspertions on his ability or that he may have happy customers, nay even a 'following'. Cult as it may be.

But the taste in my mouth sours seeing how things are gone about, so blatantly.

At this point i would like to encourage people to type '4145Derek' into the search box. Maybe scroll through a few posts

Its the name used BEFORE he became a member/advertiser. Note each post relates to duel batteries, charging, fridges etc. auto electrical. Thats fine, as if thats your area of expertise and you feel you can assist people with you knowledge great. members are free to respond to posts as they please.

However, also note, in a high percentage of circumstances direct soliciting occurs. mention of website and business name at the end of each post etc.

People on the forum get to know you well enough, and a site like this is a wonderful place to advertise. Word of mouth is powerful, yet is more damaging when adverse.

Derek, reflect on this post, and maybe tone down your agressive style and you will find respect will return, and it will be a fruitful place, for you.

Lest i fear you become more infamous than Bill S.

Rev

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Follow Up By: revhead307 - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 11:49

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 11:49
Todays metaphors are:

_______ pounced on the customer, like:

1) a fly to an open wound
2) a leach to an exposed ankle
3) a rabid dog on a pet rabbit

The point is clear, I will take my leave

Rev

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FollowupID: 411771

Reply By: Ron173 - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 12:03

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 12:03
G'Day all,

Had to put my 10c worth in,

First time I saw Dereks logo I actually read it as ARB, although did wonder at colours, wasnt until a closer look I realised it wasnt, so the conclusive point there is yes it does appear very similair.........

but like others have said... who cares... if it bothers ARB, I'm sure they will take it up with Derek.

I've bought Dereks gear and find it good, his advice is generally good too although often questioned here, but advice should be taken as such, then pick the bones out it and go your own way with it.

I buy my gear for what I think its worth and what I want to do with it, I honestly couldnt give a rats what logo a company uses.

I think this is really going nowhere.

I'm off for a drive, and when I return a cold beer, from my fridge.......

.....thats been in a test with nasa ..........at temperatures similair to the shuttle nosecone on re entry,................ with the lid open, .............thermostat shorted and connected to a thermonuclear reactor....which is computer simulated and compensated for battery discharge thermodynamics......................

Who gives a......
AnswerID: 157498

Reply By: Member - Collyn R (WA) - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 16:54

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 16:54
GQPat

Re your point concerning diodes.

What you say is of course theorectically true - and if yiu leave the batteries paralleled long enough tye will be good little socialists and equally share their wealth. But in reality this takes as long for batteries as it does for economies.

There is the further point that, at best, the diode introduces a 0.6 volt drop and at worst close to a volt. (Schottky diodes drop only 0.2 volt but there cost an arm and a leg).

In practice a voltage sensing relay with adequate voltage differential provides effective enough isolation to make no odds.

The second pont that most over look is that a starter motor draws so little energy that the engine used in starting is replaced within a minute or two. At that stage it has about 13.6 volts across it - and if the auxillary battery is at a typical 12.2-12.5 volts the resultant voltage differential is not large enough to cause any significant discharge.

I am puzzled why people continue to argue this one - there's a brazillion systems out there that show it works!
Collyn Rivers
AnswerID: 157570

Follow Up By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 19:23

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 19:23
'there's a brazillion systems out there that show it works!'

That must be a lot Collyn. I had a girl friend once who told me she had a brazillian. I figured she was too rich for me and moved on!
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FollowupID: 411884

Follow Up By: Mike DiD - Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 23:06

Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 at 23:06
Collyn, I agree, it's yet another of those myths that everyone keeps repeating as an obvious fact, even though they've never come across anyone who has tested it.

I've actually tested this by connecting a fully charged new AGM 90 Ahr battery to a fully discharged (to 10 volts) wet-cell starting battery. The MAXIMUM current that flowed for a few SECONDS was 32 amps, but reduced to 7 amps after 1 minute.

The total charge transferred from AGM to Wetcell was only 10.7 AHrs after being connected for 2 HOURS, this will not affect the AGM's starting ability !

The problem is that people think that connecting a full and an empty battery is like connecting a full and an empty bucket !. If the bucket analogy were true, then a half-full battery would show 6 volts !

Trying to charge a flat battery from a full battery is like charging a battery using a 12.4 volt charger - pretty useless.

Mike
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FollowupID: 411998

Follow Up By: Member - Collyn R (WA) - Wednesday, Mar 01, 2006 at 11:51

Wednesday, Mar 01, 2006 at 11:51
Mike DiD

It's such an OLD myth too. A major problem in this area is that so much of this has been known and quantified for at least 100 years. Yet much of the battery stuff that people argue about on this forum can be found in any basic battery text book from (certainly) 1905 onward.

Further, argue about things they can so readily check themselves. Or use simple logic to work out for themselves.

Time and again one finds people disputing my statement that a typical 4WD engine needs only a Ah or two to start it (a few watt/hours).

If it otherwise noone except a circus strongman could possibly have hand started a car in the vintage era - yet to do so was a breeze.

The scene reminds me of meetings of The Royal Society in (I think) the very late 1700s - where meeting after meeting of this learned scientific community was devoted to whether or not the water level in a bowl rose if one placed a gold fish in it. The king finally had enough - and brought in one goldfish and one bowl of water.

Mike DiD: Would you please email me privately - I have mislaid your email address and would like to have brief email exchange.
Collyn Rivers

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FollowupID: 412102

Reply By: forbychic - Wednesday, Mar 01, 2006 at 13:18

Wednesday, Mar 01, 2006 at 13:18
Affordable Beer Rates

fourth time lucky lol
AnswerID: 157822

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