Oziexplorer

Submitted: Tuesday, Jan 28, 2003 at 22:30
ThreadID: 3134 Views:1551 Replies:7 FollowUps:13
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Ozi. I have not accessed 'Exploroz' for some weeks now and have returned only to read your latest posting. Are you withdrawing your participation due to comments made some time back by Truckster et al? IF this is the case, please reconsider. I always enjoyed reading what you had to say. There will always be people who will criticise ! Forums like this are all about free speech and expressions of opinion, so ignore the knockers and get back on the horse. I'm sure most people appreciated your advice. Regards, Derek.
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Reply By: Member - Mike - Wednesday, Jan 29, 2003 at 07:49

Wednesday, Jan 29, 2003 at 07:49
Concur
regards
Mike
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Reply By: Mikef_Patrol - Wednesday, Jan 29, 2003 at 08:58

Wednesday, Jan 29, 2003 at 08:58
Me too!

MikeF
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Follow Up By: Mikef_patrol - Wednesday, Jan 29, 2003 at 09:01

Wednesday, Jan 29, 2003 at 09:01
In fact, if Ozi leaves, I am going to have to scrounge through all these forums (exploroz, overlander etc etc) and save all the lubrication and solar stuff away somewhere, 'cause by the time I get around to doing it all, the information might be long archived or lost, especially the solar stuff.

Thanks Ozi
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Follow Up By: Mikef_patrol - Wednesday, Jan 29, 2003 at 09:01

Wednesday, Jan 29, 2003 at 09:01
And the GPS stuff :)
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Reply By: peterc - Wednesday, Jan 29, 2003 at 13:52

Wednesday, Jan 29, 2003 at 13:52
I can't help but agree. I have been following "the Great Oil Debate" with interest and it has motivated me to get off my bum and do something ( which in itself has got to be a good thing). So I arranged for an oil test through www.e-monitor.com.au for my two vehicles, a prado td (2000) and a bmw motorbike (1981) and then changed the oils to part synthetic (prado) and full synthetic (bmw) and I will retest the oil prior to the next change and compare the results to the initial tests. Btw these tests are $22 (I got them from REPCO morayfield and despite what Ozi says REPCO stands for, I think this is good value!)The tests are done at Australian Laboratory Services, Shand St. Stafford, Brisbane and is a lab we also use at work for other types of tests. Castrol also use this same lab for their oil analysis, at least in this part of the country.
Iwould also be interested in hearing from anyone else who may decide to get their oil tested and then change to synthetic, who knows maybe we can establish a trend across a few different vehicles rather than have to wait months to establish a trend over time ( of course the only variable for each vehicle would have to be changing from mineral to synthetic oil and a min sample number of probably 12, better still 30-40 to establish a trend, so this may be a little optimistic).
So Ozi, you and Tuco and others have contributed a great deal to raising the awareness of oils and filters and although (this is my personal bias coming through) you come across a bit as a man motivated by ego, I can live with that, because we all are to some extent and it is better than being motivated by say greed or not motivated at all (me sometimes) and to those who would criticise I say value and judge the man for his advice not because you like or dislike the mental picture you've formed of him. We all let our personal prejudices get in the way when we imagine what the other person on the forum is like, without really knowing them. Imho a forum is for sharing info which we alone have to decide whether or how to use.
I'll stop preaching now. Ozi, without getting into personalities, the info you have selflessly contributed to the forum has been great, pls don't let criticism stop you.
PC
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Reply By: Mainey... - Wednesday, Jan 29, 2003 at 14:12

Wednesday, Jan 29, 2003 at 14:12
Derek.
I do agree it would be good to see "Ozi" remain, his own personal thoughts and his ideas do generate discussion.
However, it would be nice to have the
"free speech and expressions of opinion"
totally HONEST and FACTUAL, without half-truths and hidden agenda's.

Many people look to these site's to acertain FACT'S and make INFORMED decisions on buying important (to them) pieces of equipment.

I have read some blatently missinformed (untrue) statements on Liemack fridges...
Yes, thankfully I do own one.
As other poster's have stated they are Stainless Steel, not plastic and they do "cycle" because they quickly reach the preset temp due to their rotary compressor pumping large volumes of refridgerant, this saves your battery power.

An unbiased Aussie 4x4 magazine did a VERY comprehensive test of 12 volt/gas fridges, the Liemack was PROVEN to be the FASTEST cooling and one of the LEAST power hungry fridge's available.

Some people like Holden, some Ford, lets keep it Factual.
No, I don't work for Reeffer.
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Follow Up By: Ray_m - Wednesday, Jan 29, 2003 at 22:58

Wednesday, Jan 29, 2003 at 22:58
mainey this reliable 4x4 magazine you quote shows the liemack to be the most power hungry fridge by 100% 5.6 Av amps then next was 2.8 Av amps and lowest 1.6 AvAmps and the article goes on to say about noting well the recommedations from the manufacturer for electrical connectors and battery setup. liemack are a fast cooling fridge but takes double the power to do it fast cooling is not a normal need of campers
please post your information that liemack is the least power hungry on a website and i will scan mine and put them up on a website.
where has anybody said liemack are plastic
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Follow Up By: Mainey... - Thursday, Jan 30, 2003 at 04:39

Thursday, Jan 30, 2003 at 04:39
Ray_m,
the unbiased Aussie 4x4 magazine I have Quoted states..

Test one:
Temperature drop from: +25 to zero degree

50ltr Liemack = 15 mins @ 3.8o amp/hr
60ltrTrailblazer = 19 mins @ 5.2o amp/hr
39ltr Engel = 24 mins @ 3.25 amp/hr
60ltr Engel = 28 mins @ 6.4o amp/hr

Test two:
Temperature drop from: +35 to -15 degree

50ltr Liemack = 55 mins @ 3.8 amp/hr


Liemack cycled on/off for the balance of the 3 hour test period.
NO OTHER fridge reached -15 degree in the 3 hour test.
50ltr Liemack went down to -22 (Deep freeze zone) in only 90 mins.

Note: the "amp/hour" figure is low for the Liemack because it was OFF for a lot of the time while the other fridges were still running.

Other fridges included in the test were: Chestcold, Autofridge, Fridgemate, Kidmans, Bush Boy.
Yes, I had to get a copy of tests to print FACTS.

The Liemack may use more power when it is actually running than some other fridges, HOWEVER it works so quick at dropping it's temperature, it does run for LESS time than all the fridges tested, giving the low amp PER HOUR power usage, as the tests did reveal.
(almost 1/2 and in some cases 1/10 the run time)

The reason I did write "as other posters have stated they are Stainless Steel, not plastic" was only to give a possible reason for the extra weight of the stainless steel, if I'm wrong, please explain why some fridge's are so light in weight.



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Follow Up By: Bruce - Thursday, Jan 30, 2003 at 09:25

Thursday, Jan 30, 2003 at 09:25
I tottally agree with Mainey..lets keep it it factual and give unbiased opinions and advice...it just seems as though these forums have become Ozis private soapbox..he has an opinion or whatever on every thing that appears ..does get a bit boring...cheers
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Follow Up By: Tod - Thursday, Jan 30, 2003 at 10:15

Thursday, Jan 30, 2003 at 10:15
Thanks Mainey.......that's the sought of information I like to see. When I buy a new fridge I will reference your information. By the way thank's for not abusing me.
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Follow Up By: Ray_m - Thursday, Jan 30, 2003 at 11:32

Thursday, Jan 30, 2003 at 11:32
mainey mate you not quoteing the right figure for 24 hours and total power used Liemack is worst fridge available as tested properly
Unit Size in Litres Amps Avg 24 hours Efficiency Price 01/01/03 Cost per litre Value $
Evakool 50 1.9 26.32 $1,295.00 $25.90 0.98 BEST Overall
Waeco 40 2.0 20.00 $849.00 $21.23 1.06
Engel 42 1.6 26.25 $1,179.00 $28.07 1.07
ARB 42 1.6 26.25 $1,179.00 $28.07 1.07
Bushman 35 1.6 21.88 $895.00 $25.57 1.17
Vitrifrigo 41 2.3 17.83 $979.00 $23.88 1.34
Explorer 45 2.4 18.75 $1,695.00 $37.67 2.01
Autofridge 39 2.4 16.25 $1,744.00 $44.72 2.75
Bushboy 40 2.8 14.29 $1,600.00 $40.00 2.80
Liemack/Ref Res 50 5.6 8.93 $1,699.00 $33.98 3.81

THE HEAT TEST
In discussion with ADI (Australian Defence Industries) testing staff we
decided to use temperature profile replicating the type of daily
temperature variation a fridge might encounter.
While tropical areas and winter highlands temperature gradients
would look a lot different, we believe the temperature spread chosen
displays the fridges comparative performance extremely well.
So the profile for the environment chamber (which is like a large cool
room capable of heating as well) was designed with a peak of 55°C for
two hours, ramping up and down either side to a background ambient
assumed temperature of 15°C during a 24-hour period.

COLD DRAW DOWN
All the manufacturers recommend pre-chilling the fridge prior to
travelling, and after testing them all we agree this procedure is
essential.
It’s not the time taken to ‘draw down’ to operational temperature that
is the problem so much, rather the time taken to ‘drive’ the fridge to a
stable cycling temperature.
Obviously it takes longer to draw down a fridge full of warm product,
so manufacturers always advise filling the fridge with pre-
refrigerated goods wherever possible. We agree this is preferable.
The problem is the constant monitoring of the fridge to ensure it
doesn’t cool too far below zero and freeze stuff that shouldn’t be
frozen. You must keep close watch on the actual internal temperature,
preferably with a thermometer that can read negative figures, which
should be suspended above or between the goods and not touching
something already frozen.
Some of the fridges on the test took up to eight hours of monitoring
and adjustments (up and down) to ‘drive’ them down to a cycling
operational temperature between zero and 4OC that they could,
maintain without constant monitoring. They are all a bit fiddly in this
regard.

Data recorded during a 24-hour period at 15°- 55°C in the chamber. As
temperature increases the iesistance increases, causing greater
current draw in amps per hour than during a cooler night period. This
figure averages the peaks and troughs in amps drawn per hour.
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Follow Up By: Tod - Thursday, Jan 30, 2003 at 11:45

Thursday, Jan 30, 2003 at 11:45
O.K Ray & Mainey........hope your reading this Ozi.......who is correct. I've just raced out and bought the most uneconomical fridge on the market. What I want to know is which fridge is going to be more economical as in power usage. By the way I haven't bought one yet.
But this is where we need a third, fourth and fith input.
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Follow Up By: Mainey... - Thursday, Jan 30, 2003 at 18:59

Thursday, Jan 30, 2003 at 18:59
Ray_m,
Hi, now who is confusing people....
are you trying to make out that they are the same test.
Where are the results published for your test and who was the instigator of the testing, who supplied the fridges???

As for your statement of me "quoting figures for 24 hours" I quoted 'amp/hour' figures, that is the accepted method of quoting the battery power used to power a 12 volt fridge and they were inderpendantly tested and the results printed in an unbiased 4x4 magazine.

You stated that during the heat of the day the temperature increases, it causes greater current draw, however the Liemack, as you previously posted, "is a fast cooling fridge" and also the inderpendant 4x4 test confirms this, does not take as long to cool down as other fridges, giving it a mutch lower run time and therefore they use less amp/hrs.
It is amazing how numbers can be manipulated.

The only purpose you buy a 12 volt fridge, is to take food away with you and keep this food cold (not just cool)
Every time you open the lid or when you put new product (food) into the fridge it is usually from a shop, river, farm etc and warm, the fridge accepts the ambient heat, this is where you need the Liemack's "fast cooling" you have mentioned previously..

I use a Liemack 50ltr fridge/freezer, therefore I know in the real world your test numbers are not correct.
stay happy.........


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Follow Up By: Rodeoowner - Thursday, Jan 30, 2003 at 22:16

Thursday, Jan 30, 2003 at 22:16
Mainey, which comparison was that? I have read the 4wd Monthly one and also have an old Overlander one, but have not seen this one. Which mag was it, and can I get a copy?
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Follow Up By: Terry - Sunday, Feb 02, 2003 at 10:57

Sunday, Feb 02, 2003 at 10:57
Firstly I'm not going to miss Ozi, this forum shouldn't be used for a personal soapbox, I thought it was to enable all of us to discuss things openly and put up constructive aguments for and against without being either ridiculed or abused.

In response to Ray_m,

the ambient assumed temperature range of 15C your dealing with in your test I find a little strange. The average ambient temperature in most vehicles even with air-conditioning would be higher than that.
there are two questions you've got to ask yourself when buying a fridge.
a: Am I buying this to save on power consumption, or
b: Am I buying this because I want a fridge to keep my food chilled/frozen in Australian contidions

You can't have both. In tempertures where its not going to get much above 25C then the lower powering fridges are probably what you want. if your going into temperatures getting up to 35C+ these units will struggle, and/or they will run continuously.

I have a Reefer 70 DT, and yes it does use a lot of power on startup, but in hot weather it cycles on average about 15-20minutes every hour. It pulls the temperature down very quickly, using 7-8amps to do it, but over 24hrs it would average around 3amps. I can be away from the homestead from 2 days to 2 weeks in temperatures upwards of 45C in the shade, and my unit even in the back of the ute will still cycle less than 30 minutes every hour, it running the fridge and freezer. With the ST models I would reckon it would run for less time.

When you buy a fridge you really need to look at the conditions its going to be used in and how many times a year your going to need it and base your desicion around that. I'm not for or against any of the units out there, I selected the Reefer on what I needed and believed it could do the job I wanted it for.
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Follow Up By: Mainey... - Sunday, Feb 16, 2003 at 19:46

Sunday, Feb 16, 2003 at 19:46
Ray_m, having read your posting on 30th Jan '03
I have some FACTS for you....

I have checked the MANUFACTURES power figures for the fridges you listed that you have claimed have been tested "properly" I did not have to check the Liemack as I own one and KNOW you are completly wrong on that also....

*Everkool - claim the power figure is 3.8 amp (not 1.9) 2.1 on economy where it runs almost all day.
*Waeco - claim 3.75 amp (not 2) and is only 36ltr
*Engel - 2.7 amp (not 1.6) and is only 40ltr
*ARB - 2.7 amp (not 1.6) only 40ltr (is it an engel??)
*Vitrifrigo - claim 12 watt/hour, 20+ amps/day (not 17.83)
*Explorer - 3 amp (not 2.4)
*Autofridge - "Will work in ambient temp UP TO 32 degree if set to +2 degree and will use 24 amp/day" (not 16.25)

Is your test wrong or are all the Manufacturers wrong ?

The test states it peaked at 55 degrees for only TWO (2) hours "ramping up and down either side to a background ambient assumed temperature of 15 degrees during a 24 hour period"

Ray, are we using this fridge in the back of a 4x4 in the normal heat of central Australia where the averave temperature is around 38-44 degrees, dropping a few degrees during the night, not down in the mountains of southern Tasmania.

You say some of the fridges in the test took up to eight hours to 'drive' them down to a 'cycling opperational temperature that they could maintain'.... using small compressors like some of the fridges tested it is no wonder they have taken eight hours to get down to 'zero' degrees and start cycling on and off and saving battery power. In the higher temperature expected in Australia some of these fridges will be working flat out, using battery power double of what you have shown above.

Hope this is of some use to the people who do rely on Facts and are aware of some unreal test conditions where the results are totally wrong.
stay happy.



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Reply By: chopper - Wednesday, Jan 29, 2003 at 18:18

Wednesday, Jan 29, 2003 at 18:18
Ozi, if you gotta go then don't let the door hit you on the arrse on the way out,

BUT

If you change your name, to start a fresh so to speak, and come on back with a slightly renewed outlook (like allowing someone else to drive a landrover with an engel and change their oil every 5oookms, without feeling the need to treat them like an idiot), then we may all be the better for your experience and willingness to help.

If however, this can't happen then i wish you happy trails upon which to enjoy your wealth and education. coz, of course, only those with wealth and eductaion are allowed to have an opinion aren't they!!

chopper

PS I will say nothing more on this topic.
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Reply By: ThePublican - Wednesday, Jan 29, 2003 at 22:16

Wednesday, Jan 29, 2003 at 22:16
After all yesterdays tears and speeches,you can find ozi anytime on the overland forum,18 posts today.
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Reply By: Mainey... - Thursday, Jan 30, 2003 at 22:44

Thursday, Jan 30, 2003 at 22:44
Rodeoowner,

Your answers are in "Australian 4x4" Magazine, about 4 pages of tests, I only have some of the actual result page, information that I have posted here... I may be able to scan and E-mail it for you if required...

Happy is good...


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Follow Up By: Rodeoowner - Thursday, Feb 06, 2003 at 15:22

Thursday, Feb 06, 2003 at 15:22
Hey Mainey, I forgot about this thread! Must have missed that comparo. Can you email it to cullenmarkd@hotmail.com
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