HILUX VS NAVARA VR RM

Submitted: Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 12:16
ThreadID: 31541 Views:8660 Replies:11 FollowUps:26
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What is the problem in trying to find some decent non biased info regarding 4wds today. Read the article in 4x4 Australia about the Hilux and the Navara, Ron Moon has in my opinion always provided good advice and a fair opinion, but stating that the Navara is better in every aspect of the vehicle is a far stretch of the imagination. Thought i would check the Nissan Australia website to have a look at the Navara, and who should pop up on the screen none other the Mr Moon. Hmm I wonder what kick backs he gets from Nissan, the same goes for Mr Laws and Steve Irwin, however the difference with Ron Moon is that he in 4x4 Australia Mags is stating that the Navara is by far a better vehicle than the Hilux but at the same time be used to advertise the vehicle at its pre-launch by Nissan. What are these mags trying to prove, do you think the Hilux stood any chance of getting a good review not at all. Just goes to show that we using this forum should let each other know about how our 4wd's are perfoming and stacking up. In all honesty know one can say that one particular 4wd is better than another in every aspect, and to compare that poxy navara to the strength of a Patrol is bordering on civill war.
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Reply By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 12:43

Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 12:43
What do you want him to do lie! The Navara kills the hilux but if you don't agree that's fine, don't buy it.
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Follow Up By: Turbo Diesel - Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 13:00

Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 13:00
MAD DOG

Its not about the vehicle so much its about the person giving the opinion and how they go about forming that opinion and then who pays them to say it. Sure ig you think the Navara is better for you buy it of course thats logical but don't base it on one person biased opinion.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 13:19

Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 13:19
Yes if he's appears on the website and at the same time does evaluations and comparasions in publications regarding this vehicle there certainly is a conflict of interest which should at least be declared.
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 03:04

Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 03:04
does that mean you would admit the HILUX is a better ute if it outsells the navara?
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Reply By: Brett_B - Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 12:44

Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 12:44
I read the same article and was disappointed, but I am a new Hilux driver.

The main point that stood out was the price I think. Nissan cheaper and you get more.

Didn't see him mention that the front end the new Navara is lower than the previous model (I correct me if I'm wrong) they were real quick to bag the Lux about that eh, the article was all positives for Nissan, made me sick :-)

Anyway, I'm happy with my Lux, best one ever I think, suits me fine.

I have had one Nissan (albeit not a 4X4) I swore I would never own another, it left a bad taste in my mouth :-)

Brett

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Follow Up By: cokeaddict - Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 13:26

Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 13:26
Left a bad taste in ur mouth...??? what were u doing to it at the time?...dont answer that.

The guy works for a magazine that survives on sales, its his job to give his honest opinion as to the tests he carries out. That does not always happen though. Pressure from other parties can soon manipulate his words, weather he agrees or not. But over all, he tries his best knowing full well that whichever way he goes with his statements, its going to annoy people...funny that, kinda like polititions ay :-)

Personally, when i look for a vehicle i want to buy, I take it for a weekend test run offroad. If the car yard wont allow me to take it for that long..i ask others until i eventually find one who will. I would NEVER buy a new vehicle these days UNLESS...its a series 2 or 3, that way the problems are already fixed. Basically what im trying to say here is this....
I know what im looking for when i am ready to buy, the dudes who test them for mags dont decide for me.
Ange
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Follow Up By: Brett_B - Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 12:45

Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 12:45
Totally agree with you, I also would not buy a vehicle due to an artical in a mag.

When I said the positives for Nissan made me sick I was joking, like how dare they (Nissan) make a better equiped car LOL.

As interest I have purchased the last 3 series Hilux's, first series models, never had an issue or a warranty claim.

Maybe I have been lucky.

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Follow Up By: cokeaddict - Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 14:10

Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 14:10
Hi Brett,
Maybe its not just that you were lucky. It could also be that you take care of what you drive, some of us do that even when we go offroad. These things are an investment, and just cause they can go "anywhere" as some belive they can, it doesnt mean you should drive them hard if you can avoid it. After all, they have to get you back home too.

Cheers
Ange
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Follow Up By: Brett_B - Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 19:16

Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 19:16
Hey ya Ange

I call it mechanical appreciation, and yes I practice this on and off road.

Your talkin my language :-)

Regards

Brett
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Reply By: GEG - Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 12:46

Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 12:46
in looks alone; the hilux wins. I drove the it for about a week, and loved it, it performed well onroad and off. Cant comment on the Navara though. I know there is a bulk load of money being transferred under the table for sponsorships/PR/best car awards etc...you should do a little more research to uncover which companies spend more than others. And which car company spend more on advertising in 4x4 aust mag. And who gets the main advert pages to advertise in...ie. the 3rd page, back page, etc///
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Follow Up By: Member - MrBitchi (QLD) - Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 13:12

Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 13:12
"in looks alone; the hilux wins"

No accounting for taste ;-P
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Reply By: hound - Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 13:20

Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 13:20
Depends what you want it for if it’s no off-road work there’s not much difference but if you want to use it off-road I would and did go for the lux.

The Diesel lux has better power to weight ratio, revs way less, uses less fuel, is lighter, has better clearance after you remove the stupid side steps, has better departure and approach angles, and has better low range gearing.

These are all facts and come from Toyotas and Nissan specs

I wouldn't look too much into these 4x4 mag reviews. What sort of cars do they normally drive? If you drive a commercial dual cab normally etc after you drive either vehicle on road you will be impressed compared to the old models
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Follow Up By: Turbo Diesel - Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 13:28

Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 13:28
Hound totally agree with your thoughts, this discussion i guess is centering on the opinion given by Mr Ron Moon and as previously mentioned his conflict of interest. Simple points that you mentioned where neglected in the article as being major draw cards for yota, by the way i have the new SR5 Turbo Diesel in my garage, but can see a biased opinion a mile away whether its from John Laws or Ron Moon.
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 13:30

Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 13:30
No doubt about that and that's what everyones talking about. Toyotas move away from a very good dual purpose ute, 50% offroad, 50% on road to a 60/40 on road bias.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 20:19

Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 20:19
Hi all I have an 89 SR5 hilux same shape as mad dogs. 2.8 Diesel and I dont give a bleep what any one says after driving a 2.8 d D/Cab with 280k on the clock the new hilux and new navara felt like driving a merc or a bmw, I would have either if I had the $$$. Regards Steve M
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 13:40

Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 13:40
Have you got good suspension Stephen, makes a world of difference.
We have a modern road car in the family but I'd much rather drive the old ute.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 17:36

Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 17:36
Hi there Ray, yeah I have just replaced front leaf springs with new OME pins, greasable shackles the lot, the back ones are still Ok. The Lux has had OME in it since it was about 1 year old it has a 2 inch lift with OME shockies as well. I meant more power wise then ride wise, I am quit happy with the way it rides just lacks the get up and go but dont want to spend 3.5k on a turbo especially with the klms Iv now got on it 280k and have heard some people reckon it's great some say they wouldnt spend it again but I'm not real keen on the ifs front end on the later model either (97/03) I think. The first with the 3 litre turbo. Love the motors plenty of go but also would rather be paying for a overhaul on my old pump then the money for the new ones 3.5k if they bleep themselves but hey thats the way there all going so eventually wont have a choice, mind you Im seriously thinking of a petrol next time maybe the 2.7 4cylinder or the 3.4 V6 the cost of diesel is getting ridiculous and having to change the oil and filter so much on a 2.8 (known for doing bearings due to sludging up so quickly, I do myn every 3k without fail oil and filter) diesel is starting to bother me as well.Havnt made my mind up yet but will be doing something in april next year (wife sorts out the finances) so have plenty of time to think about it but then I have also heard some problems with the front diff on the ifs hiluxs in V6 model and also blowing heads on the V6 so yeah got some thinking to do. Regards Steve M
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Reply By: OLDMAGPIE - Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 15:01

Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 15:01
i just read in the west australian that toyota 4x4 out sells all other 4x4 ? cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Andrew W (VIC) - Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 16:56

Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 16:56
and what does that tell you from people in the West????
Take it whichever way you want!!
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Follow Up By: OLDMAGPIE - Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 18:16

Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 18:16
actually andrew it was an australia wide result for hilux in february saying they sold 1434 units didnt mention any of the others
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 03:15

Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 03:15
WEST is probably where you will find the most 4x4's used for their intended purpose, mate.
Not a tonk down a sandtrack on Saturday arvo for an hour to be "hardcore", but on minesites where they are offroad 90% of the time. And you struggle to see a nissan out there.
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Follow Up By: OLDMAGPIE - Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 12:13

Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 12:13
actually fisho 64 its north-east or south east from where im sitting
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 15:12

Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 15:12
Sorry, reply was aimed at "Andrew W (VIC)"s caustic followup to your post OMagpie!.
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Follow Up By: OLDMAGPIE - Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 18:08

Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 18:08
yeah it was a bit , but that just proves the theory what this thread was all about
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 18:56

Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 18:56
quote "Take it whichever way you want!!" unquote

when someone from Victoria writes that, "south of the border" takes on a whole new meaning!!!
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Reply By: disco driver - Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 16:32

Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 16:32
Unbiased opinion???

Isn't an opinion only recognized as unbiased when it agrees with what you think you know as a fact.

In other words-- if joe Bloggs praises the navara and you have one ,thats unbiased but if you are a "bitchy" or "'yota" owner, his opinion must be biased coz he didn't agree with your choice of vehicle.

How do you think us L/Rover owners feel, every one disagrees with our choice.

We dont let it get to us, we just keep on going bush and enjoying life..
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Follow Up By: Turbo Diesel - Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 16:40

Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 16:40
Disco

Ron Moon can have any opinion he likes, he can disagree with all of us for that matter, its not the point. The Navara by most point is a very capable vehicle, the point of this thread is how personalities such as Ron Moons are used to advertise for Nissan to promote its products, however to then turn around and write a cover story about the Hilux and Navara comparison and praise the Navara and bag the Hilux is not journalism nor is it an accurate view of the two products. As mentioned on this thread the Hilux has some aspects that are far superior to the Navara and vice versa, the point being these where not mentioned in the article. I respect Ron Moons opinions he has a lot on knowledge, but i disagree with him being on Nissan payroll and wrighting for 4x4 australia, someone else should have written the article.

Cheers
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Reply By: Nav 8 - Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 18:42

Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 18:42
Haveing owned 7 Toyotas and 4 Nissans over the last 30 years I think I can honestly say they were all mostly above average vehicles for the tecnology of the time. I have only owned Nissans since the early 1990s when the bodywork started to improve and only changed over due to the constant gearbox failures of the early 5 speed Toyota boxes, a fault Toyota could have fixed but didint.and is still occuring today in the old models.
In my opinion all the 4x4s of today are no different than back then, tecnology has improved but you still get the good points with the bad but there are more makes to choose from. The 4x4 buyer of today can choose a vehicle for just about any purpose you can think of and provided it is treated right will give good service for many years. The big question though is the price, not everyone can afford a brand new $40,000-$90,000 vehicle and most end up with a second hand one with anything up to 300,000 or more on the clock and in most cases no service history.
The problem with these later models that have been well worn is the cost of repairs in the event of perhaps an engine failure. , This at worst with a diesel and its off to the bank for a loan, and money spent on the vehicle that is unlikely to be recovered on trade in. Having said that its a risk we are prepared to take because we love doing what we do, I just wish 4x4 manufactures would read sites like this and take a little notice of the people who use their product for its intended purpose insted of doing useless comparisons in 4x4 mags. Nav.
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Reply By: barnsy - Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 19:14

Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 19:14
Had 2 hilux's , still have one . Wouldn,t buy a Navara (drive one for work has wonderful vibrations and according to nissian is well in within specifications) have you ever tried to get in the back. Need to be a miget, wouldn't buy a new hilux either though they have gone 2 soft and are 80mm lower than the previous models and has any one got a comment on their tendicy to bend?
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 21:25

Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 21:25
I think all the dual cabs can bend if overloaded too much...severe overloading
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Follow Up By: Member - Andrew W (VIC) - Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 22:15

Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 22:15
You really do need to get your facts right when talking about the Navarra - D22 - or D40 ?? although I guess from your remarks you wouldn't know the difference!!

Read the specs mate - largest rear room leg and height space of any current dual cab sold in OZ!!!

Shame!! Shame !! shame!!!
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Follow Up By: barnsy - Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 13:04

Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 13:04
very good
How much time do you spend in the back??
Now try climbing in the back, great if ur a midget shame the rear doors arn't any larger
Mioght touchy arn't we :)
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Reply By: Marc - Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 21:13

Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 21:13
both mags have praised the nissan over the hilux, and after driving both for a test day we got the new D40. Save 5k for the add ons
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Follow Up By: Member - David B (QLD) - Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 23:31

Wednesday, Mar 08, 2006 at 23:31
Both mags tell the truth, thay wouldn't lie.
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Reply By: TerraFirma - Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 15:40

Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 15:40
Both are great cars, I have the new 2005 Turbo Diesel Hilux SR5 and my mate has a 2004 TD model Navara. He drove my Lux the other day for 200 km's and was blown away by the difference, he says the Lux is such a nicer drive, more powerful and more refined. The new Navara off course has slightly more torque using a smaller engine and is a smaller vehicle in general, I haven't driven the new Navara, but I couldn't imagine it being better in many ways at all. To be fair to both Nissan and Toyota both make great 4WD products, it seems Toyota typically are dearer when comparing vehicle for vehicle and there's good reason for that. Lets face it, both are the vehicles of choice when crossing Australia in the toughest conditions, I remember one 4WD test that said the Nissan had dust coming in the cabin through the seals and the CD player jumped whereas the Toyota had none of those problems. Only the smallest most subtle differences exist between the vehicles, alomost in line with the price.
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Follow Up By: Utemad - Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 16:18

Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 16:18
It isn't really fair to be comparing a 2004 Navara to a 2005 Hilux. That model Navara was nearing the end of its run whereas your Hilux was a new release. Why not test the 2005 Hilux against a new model 2006 Navara.

Not that I care. I drive a 1997 Rodeo. Although not for long.
However I won't be choosing a vehicle purely because it is nicer to drive, more powerful and more refined. If I wanted that I would buy a BMW ;-)
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Reply By: Utemad - Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 16:29

Thursday, Mar 09, 2006 at 16:29
I used to subscribe to 4x4 Australia and the entire magazine had heavy Nissan sponsorship/advertising. I remember they had the Pathfinder Trek every month and I also remember getting the odd Nissan Calendar. I think there was more but this is a long time ago.

However even with all that Nissan money it didn't seem to do too much good. Sure the Patrol wagon always got a good rap but I remember one ute comparo saying that "the Navara is a waste of the Earth's natural resources". That was 1997/98. Still have the mag at home.
Plus whenever you saw a ute comparison the Toyota always won. Whether hilux or Landcruiser.
Although I did see an article back in July 2005 that said the Navara pipped the Hilux. Don't know what mag it was though.

Although I do agree that any magazine comparison is flawed. If not because the journos writing it are also used in one of the rivals advertising but because they are not looking at it from your perspective. Just because they prefer one model doesn't mean you don't prefer the other. Same as just because I wouldn't pick my next 4x4 because it is more refined and more powerful etc (as I wrote in the above followup) doesn't mean those things aren't at the top of someone elses list.
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