Winch without winch bar??

Submitted: Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 21:32
ThreadID: 32005 Views:7582 Replies:11 FollowUps:16
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Hi all,

on my "wish list" is a winch but it keeps being relegated to the bottom of the pile due to the fact that not only is there the cost of the winch itself but I also need to replace the standard alloy Ti bar I have for a winch compatable bar.

Can a winch be fitted without replacing my bar?

Common sense would say that if the bar is mounted to the chassis then surely some other mounting arrangement to the chassis, without an accompanying bull bar should still serve the same purpose? If that is possible why can't my existing bar use the same mounting bolts (perhaps lengthenned?).

Perhaps a silly question but as the saying goes, if you don't ask.........

If I have to buy a winch AND a new bar I may never convince SWMBO!

Thanks in advance
Trevor
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Reply By: Laura B - Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 21:36

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 21:36
i would say yes but i know nothing - ive seen heaps of bars forsale without the winches so i kinda think if you can take it off then you could put them on....

what does SWMBO - something to do with the better half???!!!LOL

Laura B
AnswerID: 162043

Follow Up By: Trevor M (SA) - Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 21:44

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 21:44
SWMBO - She Who Must be Obeyed

There is an abbreviations tab at the bottom of the page

and yes.......she does think she controls the major spending, its just a matter of convincing her to come up with the good idea that the expense is warranted.
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FollowupID: 416724

Follow Up By: Laura B - Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 21:53

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 21:53
The best way around her is to show that you are really good at saving and even write out a budget and show how much your interested in trying to save money at the same time!! It works for me.....if things go "on the card" without prior knowledge then its no good thing for a week!

Show your interested in the finances and you'll be winching yourself up hills in no time!!

Laura B

ps...Good luck
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FollowupID: 416729

Follow Up By: Trevor M (SA) - Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 22:01

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 22:01
no "good thing" for a week!

What can I say?.....women hold all the cards!

Trev

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FollowupID: 416732

Follow Up By: jerry19 - Friday, Apr 21, 2006 at 17:15

Friday, Apr 21, 2006 at 17:15
Hi, just a thought if you are looking to save a few bucks on a winch. I recently bought one on Ebay. Not a name brand, it is made by Bell Campbell. Claimed to be a 12000lb winch but is the physical size of a 9000lb model. Anyway to the important stuff - I got it for $529 including freight to Wollongong. I am yet to try it out. May be worth looking at.
There is usually plenty of info on the ebay pages about the winches.

cheers
Tony
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FollowupID: 423663

Reply By: ACDC - Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 21:41

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 21:41
Trevor M,
What does your bar look like?
Is it a full bumper replacement alloy bar?
AnswerID: 162044

Follow Up By: Trevor M (SA) - Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 21:47

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 21:47
it is separate to the bumper and alloy tube. Not just a "nudge bar" but certainly not winch compatable in the normal sense. It's the standard factory GU Ti bar.
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FollowupID: 416726

Reply By: PK Eildon (VIC) - Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 21:44

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 21:44
I have a smartbar (yeah, I know) and it was touted as winch compatible. This means it has as opening for the winch to pass through. The winch and fairlead are actually attached to a adapter plate (about $120) bolted to the chassis rails. Unfortunately the plate they sent me doesn't fit a 9500XT Warn (which I have) although it fits Warn 9000 & 10000. I'm still trying to sort this out with smartbar.
The point being the same plate should work in your case as it does not involve the bar, providing you have an opening to operate through.
AnswerID: 162046

Follow Up By: Trevor M (SA) - Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 21:50

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 21:50
This is the sort of thing I was after. The bar I have has minimal restriction in front of it so I thought some other type of mounting to the chasis may be possible and still leave the existing bar there.

Thanks

Trevor
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FollowupID: 416728

Follow Up By: ACDC - Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 22:04

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 22:04
Trevor M,
You can use a TJM winch frame which bolts between the chassis rails and supports the winch and roller fairlead,so you only need to have access to winch cable and lever, easy done!

Tell the wife your saving money!!!
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FollowupID: 416736

Reply By: PK Eildon (VIC) - Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 22:13

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 22:13
Picture worth a 1000 words maybe:

img src="http://domain.com/image_path"!MPG:4!
AnswerID: 162058

Follow Up By: ACDC - Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 22:18

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 22:18
So your winch is to wide for the frame?
Can't you mow the fins down!
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FollowupID: 416741

Follow Up By: PK Eildon (VIC) - Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 22:27

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 22:27
No. Actually the winch fits inside the frame, but the mounting holes and opening are out by 2cm. The winch housing won't go across far enough. Just needs the opening and holes moved to picture left to fit. Bit hard moving an opening though.
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FollowupID: 416748

Follow Up By: 1812 - Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 23:01

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 23:01
This may be a dumb question ????

But???

Have you tried to rotate the whole assembly 180 degrees as in east to west to locate the slot to the other side??

Scott
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FollowupID: 416763

Follow Up By: PK Eildon (VIC) - Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 23:33

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 23:33
Yeah, you're right. LOL

Just makes it further out.
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FollowupID: 416772

Reply By: Sarg - Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 22:19

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 22:19
Have a look at some Yankie sites. Most don't use a bullbar or even know what one is.
AnswerID: 162062

Reply By: Trevor M (SA) - Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 22:24

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 22:24
doing a "google" on the subject and came across Roachies post # 12644 on a similar vein.

Would be interested on comments as to the outcome?
AnswerID: 162068

Follow Up By: ACDC - Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 22:34

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 22:34
Trust me it works!
Only problem it won't be air bag compatible but if you don't tell anyone i won't!
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FollowupID: 416755

Reply By: Willem - Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 08:50

Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 08:50
Mate

You can make anything fit to anything.

Some steel, and angle grinder and a welder will do for starters. If you don't have that find a friend or business who is willing to help. As long as the winch bracket is mounted to the chassis and not the bar then everything will be fine.

Good luck.

Cheers
AnswerID: 162147

Reply By: Member - Doug T (QLD) - Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 11:40

Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 11:40
Trevor
Check this one out
MULTI MOUNT (PORTABLE ELECTRIC WINCH)

This features an XD9000i in a special portable frame, that has fitment into the tow hitch (rear) or bull bar and chassis (front). This enables the unit to be used at either end of the vehicle. Electric plus wired to front and rear allow easy power connection. The solenoids and electrical controls are contained in the winch housing.
portable
gift by Daughter

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

AnswerID: 162189

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 12:10

Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 12:10
Not much use if you are up to your n**s in mud,, cannot get to/see your mounting points, or have to pull the same direction as the rock ledge you've just headbutted. There is also the problem of power loss on the loooong power leads to the rear, and of the connectors.

Good initial idea with too many tradeoffs to be of any practical use.
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FollowupID: 416872

Reply By: Robin - Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 20:23

Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 20:23
Mounted winch in my 4800 2002 GU Patrol on flat bar across chassis rails, such that it fits inside the original standard plastic bumper, some minor trimming was needed full article was on Patrol sites. (Patrol4wd)

used non-rooler type hawser and synthetic rope to make it all fit.

Won't use bullbar here , for weight and air flow reasons - in fact entire winch
installation added only 30kg.

Robin Miller
AnswerID: 162319

Follow Up By: Trevor M (SA) - Thursday, Mar 23, 2006 at 19:07

Thursday, Mar 23, 2006 at 19:07
Hi Robin,

this sounds like what I will need to do. I will need to work around the original plastic bumper also.

Can you give any more clues on where to find the full article you refer to?

Thanks
Trev
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FollowupID: 417251

Reply By: chump_boy - Thursday, Mar 23, 2006 at 14:21

Thursday, Mar 23, 2006 at 14:21
Trevor,

If it helps at all, I used to sell winches, and I have a few of the cradles left that fit between the chasis rails. If you picture a C-Section piece of steel, with room for rollers on one side, and the winch sitting inside the C-Section you'd have it in one.

If you are in Sydney, let me know - I could fix you up with one for about $40 or so.

Cheers,

Chump
AnswerID: 162476

Follow Up By: Trevor M (SA) - Thursday, Mar 23, 2006 at 19:10

Thursday, Mar 23, 2006 at 19:10
Hi Chump,

I'm not in Sydney unfortunately but may still be interested. Will contact you if I am.

As per discussion with Robin above, do the cradles you have work with the standard plastic bumper?

Trevor
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FollowupID: 417252

Follow Up By: chump_boy - Friday, Mar 24, 2006 at 08:46

Friday, Mar 24, 2006 at 08:46
To be honest, I really don't know.

If there is enough space behind the bumper, it should be OK.

Looking at the post below, I would say it would fit fine....

Drop me an email at boy_chump at yahoo.com.au, and I can see what I can find out for you.

Cheers,

Chris
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FollowupID: 417357

Reply By: Robin - Thursday, Mar 23, 2006 at 21:29

Thursday, Mar 23, 2006 at 21:29
Hi Trevor

don't get on here much as this site amongst all I go to in conjunction with server
times out such that only get access about every odd day.

There are pictures in photo's folder on the main patrol site
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Patrol4WD

photo album 49 , technical & tips GU winch bracket

included some text below - can always email direct if can be of further help

Robin Miller

--------------------------------------------------------

Subject: GU3 Winch Mount Bracket

GU3 WINCH MOUNT BRACKET

This note describes a winch mounting bracket developed by myself in
conjunction with Brawn winches for my GU4800 to fit within a standard
plastic bumper bar.

Is has application to most GU's but in particular to those with the
low radiator and chassis cross member that protects it.

RELATED POSTS
Message 22426 "Removing GU Bumper"
Message 22429 "An occasional use winch system"

This winch mounting system had to be low in weight and not interfere
with the air-bag system in the car ,as well as fit within a standard
bumper with little modification.

A significant feature in making this practical was the decision to
use plasma rope which allowed the use of an aluminum hawse. This
takes up less room than the traditional roller fairlead hawse.
It allowed a standard size winch to be placed on a flat bar that sits
across the top of the chassis rails.
Pictures have been uploaded that show the winch bracket mounted
without the bumper and also the finished system in the car.

These are in photo's under technical\GU Winch bracket

The main part of the bracket is a flat plate 700 X 150 X 6mm .
Holes for the 4 12mm chassis rail bolts are drilled 675mm apart at a
distance of 25 an 80mm from one edge "the front edge". The standard
winch bolt pattern of 4 holes in a 254X114mm rectangle were drilled
with front row of holes 18mm from the front edge of the plate.
I.E. front of winch mounts slightly forward of the front chassis rail
bolt holes.

The bracket (plate) as above was installed and tested and as expected
in showed significant twist under load.
Brawn (Colin Pond) had the idea to weld in vertical triangular plates
to brace it.
These were welded just near the winch mount holes and extended down
to the cross member that protects the deep radiator on the 4800 and
new 4.2 diesel Patrols.
The triangular bracing sections had small flanges welded to them and
8mm bolts were put through these and into holes drilled straight
through the radiator cross member beam.
These plates ran parallel to the length of the car and provide huge
resistance to twisting forces without impending air flow to the
radiator.
Indeed they had the incidental effect of significantly improving the
radiator protection.

On say 3 litre GUs this would not be possible and it would be
necessary to come up with an alternative, by using say thicker 8mm
plate initially and putting a fold in the back of the plate to create
an "angled section".

To complete the bracket a slotted flat piece of 6mm steel was welded
to the front edge of to hold the hawse.

Very little modification was required to the plastic bumper to
accommodate the new winch.
Just the two recessed vertical struts were removed with a stanley
knife.

In fact the job was done with the number plate that heavily protrudes
into the bumper to remain in place. I found it hard to see the winch
rope take up though and later mounted the number plate a bit higher
and cut off the plastic number plate moulding.(as per photo's)

This project was done with use of specific winches in mind which
allowed for reasonable access to the up/down winch clutch release.

I have the low end Brawn HR9000 winch - it would be harder to get at
the clutch in some other types but on their high end waterproof
winches Brawn can fit an "Air actuated solenoid" if clutch access was
a problem.

Apparently this winch mount system could be easily adapted to those
very common aftermarket "non winch" type bull bars with the vertical
metal stripes.

It took a lot of stuffing around to get this job done but it has come
up very well.

In the end the bracket only weighed 8kg and the combined winch/bracket
with hawse, hook and 20meters of 8mm plasma rope only weighed 29.1kg
The cables and controller added another 4kg but this is mainly
mounted over the fuse box next to the battery.

I will do a separate post on actual winch once It has been properly
put thru its paces.

While only about 30kg was added in front of the front wheels the cars
handling noticeably changed and it had a definite "floating feeling"
caused by the increased weight over the front wheels. I did not like
this and exchanged the stock Nissan front shocks for some old Ironman
units from my previous GQ.
These have increased damping and made the car feel almost back to
normal.

Robin Miller

AnswerID: 162561

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