places and degrees

Submitted: Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 17:36
ThreadID: 32315 Views:1944 Replies:5 FollowUps:62
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evening all

what symbol is used for degrees when trying to enter a new place in "places "and where do i find it on the keyboard

dum steve
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Reply By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 17:44

Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 17:44
don't use any symbol, just the number in either of these formats DD.DDDDDD or DD MM SS
AnswerID: 163691

Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 17:50

Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 17:50
It beats me why we use this degrees and minutes system and not UTM which is less confusing and actually means something
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FollowupID: 418454

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 18:03

Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 18:03
15 deg earth rotation to the hour

1 degreee earth rotation to 4 minutes....how else are you going to hard boil an egg? You think it was coincidence? Pffft!
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FollowupID: 418459

Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 18:11

Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 18:11
lol, yeah real simple for navigation isn't it. I prefer to work in metres.
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FollowupID: 418460

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 19:02

Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 19:02
Yeah a lot more logical....Metre was originally derived from the distance fron Paris to the North Pole (IIRC 1/40 000 000th). Makes a lot more sense tht a proportion of the earths rotation...
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FollowupID: 418474

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 19:03

Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 19:03
.....NOT!!!
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 19:15

Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 19:15
Good grief man, are you still using a sextant for navigation. These days most use the GPS
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FollowupID: 418478

Follow Up By: Member - Bware (Tweed Valley) - Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 19:47

Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 19:47
I think that the 'old' system hasn't quite died yet; latitude and longtitude are used extensively in astronomy etc for the position of the planets, our rotation around the sun, the moon's position relevant to the earth etc although the maths involved is cumbersome because it isn't metric. A really good book is called 'Longtitude' which explains the search for perfect navigation in earlier times which we now take for granted; a fascinating part of history which never gets a mention.
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 19:58

Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 19:58
I accept your comments relating to astronomy but this is a travel site where most users of navigation systems are using gps and maps to which the UTM system is superior. If Gary or anyone else wants to use a sextant good luck to them.
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FollowupID: 418485

Follow Up By: Member No 1- Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 20:27

Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 20:27
i back mad dog
with utm its so easy to plot yourself or something else on a map
try doing it with DD MM err that other other language whcih is unbeliveable
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FollowupID: 418501

Follow Up By: Member - Crazy Dog (QLD) - Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 20:42

Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 20:42
If ya don't know how or about check this place out!

UTM and its use.. woof woof
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FollowupID: 418508

Follow Up By: Member - Prickle (SA) - Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 20:49

Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 20:49
MD,
I agree with you. So much easier putting in UTM when entering locations into our GPS too.

Nice day!!

Stirer :):)
Russ


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Follow Up By: Road Runner - Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 00:00

Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 00:00
UTM appears to me to be very ‘subjective’ due to the sheer size of the numbers and the lack of objectivity in their presentation. UTM coordinates presented in the first instance don’t mean much until you establish what part of the earth they represent. Probably OK navigating around a small section of real estate.

In contrast the ‘old system’ provides some useful information for ‘objectively’ navigating over long distances. It is pretty easy to visualize where on the globe a set of coordinates lie. Also longitude is a very useful tool. For example if you multiply out the 360 degrees of a great circle by 60 (sixty minutes per degree) you arrive at a figure of 21,600 minutes, or the circumference of the earth in nautical miles. To put it another way change in minutes of latitude between two points on the same meridian will provide distance in nautical miles.

Trigonometry on a plane is relatively simple but an oblate spheroid poses a different problem. Not too many years ago the use of Burton’s four figure logarithmic tables would provide the user with the distance and bearing between two lat/longs on the earths surface, not on the same meridian. I guess that this math function provides the processes for the computer section of the modern GPS.

I guess this trivia will be lost to future generations!
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Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 00:00

Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 00:00
Mad Dog,

Sorry mate. I still prefer the tried and true method of killing a chook and interpreting it's entrails :)))))))
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FollowupID: 418551

Follow Up By: Member - Bware (Tweed Valley) - Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 00:26

Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 00:26
Al, you're a classic!
Do you think the 'parsons nose' has any special value? My grandpa swore it was the best part of the chicken
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FollowupID: 418555

Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 06:41

Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 06:41
Bware,

Both good (eggs) and possibly bad (manure) emanate from the same area. Much like our travels. Agree with your grandpa, love 'em.

Regards
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FollowupID: 418569

Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 07:49

Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 07:49
Road Runner, UTM coordinates contain a number and letter to establish what part of the globe it represents. Each coordinates represents one unique point on the earth.

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FollowupID: 418589

Follow Up By: Road Runner - Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 09:28

Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 09:28
G’day Ray,

I guess that was where I was coming from. My befuddled old brain has difficulty in relating letters and numbers to geographical locations as there seemed to be too many of them!

I made a Pacific crossing last year and couldn’t for the life of me work out what the Honolulu met office were giving me with upper level winds forecast to letters! I eventually found that the Washington office provided the data in lat/long format … problem solved. I just thought the letters represented some new fangled insight that our American friends had come up with to combat British procrastination. A bit like GMT and UTC, which really only made the Greenwhich observatory redundant in favor of an atomic clock that someone else had control of.

UTM may be specific to the Mercator chart where the Lambert conformal conic projection serves long range navigation users. Some learned navigator on the forum may have the answer to that.

The upshot is that both navigation systems provide the user with different capabilities. I definitely will explore the UTM philosophy for working around the paddock rather than across the continent. By your accounts it has some merit.

Mal
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FollowupID: 418618

Follow Up By: Pajman Pete (SA) - Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 16:36

Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 16:36
I must admit I like DMS as that as what I spent 21 years of my life plotting on charts.

Lat and Long are also directly readable on the Natmap Raster DVD charts and a quick glance counting the ticks gives me a distance to go in Nautical Miles - roughly 2km to the NM. If you want to be more precise it is 1.852 km. Now before a Navigational wiz hits me on that, I know that the longitude ticks are only 1 NM at the equator and get closer together as you head south from there, but at most of the latitudes in OZ it is close enough.

And always remember the army rule - what ever you want to do will always occur at the intersection of 4 maps and two grid systems!

Cheers

Pete
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 16:41

Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 16:41
>And always remember the army rule - what ever you want to do will always >occur at the intersection of 4 maps and two grid systems!

HAHAHA..That's Gold
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FollowupID: 418700

Follow Up By: Member No 1- Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 20:37

Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 20:37
ahah that means i have to buy the adjacent maps....no wonder i couldnt find my way to willem's joint
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FollowupID: 418761

Follow Up By: Bob - Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 15:16

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 15:16
Did you mean like this>

27º
65º

etc
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FollowupID: 418939

Follow Up By: Pajman Pete (SA) - Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 16:20

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 16:20
@@@@ Show off ????
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Follow Up By: Bob - Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 19:48

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 19:48
OKº
What'sº wrongº withº showingº offº?;
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FollowupID: 419018

Reply By: The Explorer - Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 19:20

Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 19:20
Hello...hold down "Alt" key and type 0176

Cheers
Greg

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AnswerID: 163704

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 20:11

Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 20:11
out of curiosity, what is that meant to do???

Yes, I did it and nothing seemed to happen....
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FollowupID: 418493

Follow Up By: fc_holden - Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 20:19

Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 20:19
Alas nothing happened here either, I do remember at one place I worked that there are hotkeys to type these various symbols, but I think an additional program had to be installed first????????
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Follow Up By: mik_wright - Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 20:27

Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 20:27
I think you need to use the number key pad. ASCII code...misspent youth indeed!
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FollowupID: 418500

Follow Up By: Member - Bware (Tweed Valley) - Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 20:38

Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 20:38
mik_wright you have only succeeded in confusing me even more!
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FollowupID: 418505

Follow Up By: mik_wright - Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 20:42

Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 at 20:42
life was not meant to be easy! while holding alt type 0176 on the number pad release alt and hey presto 1
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FollowupID: 418507

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 05:52

Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 05:52
On a PC It's possible to enter any of the ASCII codes into a document by holding down the Alt key and entering the code of the character you want on the numeric keypad.
ie. 65 = 'A', 66 = 'B', 156 = UK pounds £, 234 = ohms sign Ω etc

ASCII tables are here
www.lookuptables.com/

Mike Harding

PS. I need to have numlock on for my keyboard to do this.
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FollowupID: 418565

Follow Up By: Member No 1- Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 07:06

Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 07:06
degrees = °
what do you know...all this time when putting quotes/reports together using word there was a shortcut to do the same thing....wont need to use superscript in word now
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FollowupID: 418573

Follow Up By: Member No 1- Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 07:18

Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 07:18
mmm
using word and type alt 257 i get a smilie ...while here its a ☺
???
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FollowupID: 418577

Follow Up By: Sand Man (SA) - Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 15:43

Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 15:43
For people who still can't get it to work, make sure you have Num Lock on first.

But do not hold down Ctrl-Alt and type 0176 on the numeric keypad, otherwise you will flip the display sideways.

Actually, for people who like to Explore (their PC that is), try this:-

hold down Ctrl-Alt keys together, then press the down arrow.
Now your screen is upside down an you are having trouble reading how to reverse it:-)

hold down Ctrl-Alt keys together, then press the up arrow.

This will also work with left and right arrows to flip the display sideways.
Bill


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FollowupID: 418681

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 16:15

Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 16:15
Not for me....under IE and Firefox
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FollowupID: 418689

Follow Up By: Wazza - (Vic) - Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 17:45

Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 17:45
I always used ALT 248 ... might work for those who cannot get 0176 to work.

Wazza.
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FollowupID: 418716

Follow Up By: Member No 1- Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 20:32

Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 20:32
ctrl alt arrow down does nothing nor does arrow up left or right
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FollowupID: 418760

Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 22:32

Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 22:32
These days I use the winxp character map with a shortcut on the desktop, makes it easy.

programs/accessories/system tools/character map.

I have no idea what the better operating systems have available.
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FollowupID: 418807

Follow Up By: Sand Man (SA) - Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 08:57

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 08:57
OK Nudie, I'll have to concede defeat.

Works on the XP Desktop at Work, but not on my Laptop.
Must be different versions of XP?
Bill


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Follow Up By: Bob - Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 15:20

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 15:20
Do you want to do this

10º
93º

and more º

Bob
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FollowupID: 418940

Reply By: Member - Mike DID - Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 18:54

Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 18:54
If you think Degrees are a good idea for Landlubbers, ask someone experienced in reading Topographic Maps and UTM to identify a point on the map using Latititude-Longitude.

If they magicly do it right, then ask them to convert the position in Degree-Minute-Seconds to Degree-Minutes-decimal and then Degree-Decimal.

. . . and then hope someones life doesn't depend on it ! (like I've seen in the Rural Fire Service where Helicopters want positions in Degrees)

Mike
AnswerID: 163925

Follow Up By: Sargent Dan - Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 20:43

Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 at 20:43
The gps will do the conversion swiftly and correctly. Punch in one format change the gps default format to whatever you want a walla the conversion is done. Some have two active formats, primary and secondary. These helicopters you speak of should get with it.
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FollowupID: 418763

Follow Up By: Pajman Pete (SA) - Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 07:17

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 07:17
Don't call the VIC Police for help out country and hope thay can find you. In January this year we stopped to help someone who had flipped their soft roader on the Jameison Eildon road blocking one lane around a blind corner. They were both OK but needed to arrange recovery of their wrecked vehicle.

No phone coverage and no-one listening on UHF so we drove into Eildon to find the coppers as it was after dark on the Sunday of a long weekend and nothing else was open. The station was vacant but there was a call box on the wall that connected us into police ops in Melbourne.

We described the situation. First problem was that he had no idea where we were: "Is that some 4WD track?" "No. It's the main asphalt road from Eildon to Jameison." I ended up telling him to look for Lake Eildon on his map and look below it for a road. Ah, found it!

I asked him if a position in either UTM or Lat/Long would help but he said that they were not that sophisticated yet, so we ended up giving directions like "3 km past the big river bridge heading towards Eildon."

While I might not expect all the cop cars to carry GPS/Mapping, I would have thought that Police Ops in Melbourne could handle a UTM or DMS position, or at least take it down in case it was useful to someone.

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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 07:33

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 07:33
The helicopters and the Police don't sound very professional but it's not unusual for the amatuer/hobbyist to be more advanced.
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FollowupID: 418834

Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 07:48

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 07:48
Had similar problems reporting a fire to NSW Fire Brigade - the location wasn't a street or town identified in their computer system - just a bay marked on Topo maps.

They couldn't enter UTM or Degrees into their computer.

I had to work out that it was "5km East of Brooklyn".

Mike
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FollowupID: 418837

Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 07:55

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 07:55
The NSW Rural Fire Service course on Advanced Mapping does NOT teach anything about GPS use !

In Sydney I'm pretty sure every tanker would have GPS and crew would know how to use it - it's essential in the bush.

Mike
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FollowupID: 418838

Follow Up By: Member No 1- Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 09:30

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 09:30
we have 6 digit number plates on rural properties here in SA...i have not checked it out but i thought they were utm?...dont all rural properties have this
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FollowupID: 418862

Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 12:15

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 12:15
Never heard of that and I doubt that vehicles are running around with UTM on the plate.
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FollowupID: 418893

Follow Up By: Pajman Pete (SA) - Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 12:30

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 12:30
Yeah but the number changes depending on where you park it! :o)

Nudie is actually talking about the 6 digit yellow number plates that are stuck on the gateposts of every rural property which I believe is a shortened version of the UTM (last 3 digits of the easting and northing.)

Pete
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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 12:38

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 12:38
A 6 digit UTM MapReference use the "middle" three digits of the easting and Northing.

e.g. if your GPS shows 0321987 6254321 then you would report your position as 219543. This is a report accurate to 100 metres and will only be repeated 100km away.

This is a lot more useful than using the LAST three digits which would repeat every kilometre.

Mike
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FollowupID: 418902

Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 12:41

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 12:41
lol. ok I'm a goose. Thanks Pete that make sense to me now.
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FollowupID: 418904

Follow Up By: Pajman Pete (SA) - Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 12:58

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 12:58
What Mike said makes more sense!
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 14:57

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 14:57
it didnt matter cos i allready new
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FollowupID: 418926

Follow Up By: Pajman Pete (SA) - Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 16:15

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 16:15
BTW have you seen the "nudie bar" in the ice cream section of SA deli's? The Mobil on Dyson Road Christies Beach has them.

Cheers

Pete
Any mug can be uncomfortable out bush

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FollowupID: 418966

Follow Up By: Member No 1- Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 17:32

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 17:32
nope ..but cant be as good as me
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FollowupID: 418982

Reply By: Member - Stephen (WA) - Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 00:28

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 00:28
Crikey,

It sounds like I'm the only bugger on here who thinks in Degrees.

I find it easy to estimate where I am using degrees rather than UTM. But I'm not fussed whether it's D.DDDDD or D M S.

My 0.02

Cheers
Stephen J.

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AnswerID: 164006

Follow Up By: Pajman Pete (SA) - Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 07:19

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 07:19
No I still do. I can use both, but 21 years in the Navy means Degrees comes naturally.

Cheers

Pete
Any mug can be uncomfortable out bush

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FollowupID: 418831

Reply By: Member - MrBitchi (QLD) - Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 15:14

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 15:14
On XP:-

Start > All Programs > Accesories > System Tools > Character Map

Shows all the other characters available in the selected Font.
Just select the one you want and copy it. Can also note the keyboard combination for future reference.

AnswerID: 164088

Follow Up By: Member No 1- Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 15:24

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 15:24
☺...see doesnt work...that was supposed to be a smilie
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FollowupID: 418942

Follow Up By: Member - MrBitchi (QLD) - Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 15:40

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 15:40
Looks like a smilie to me.....
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FollowupID: 418945

Follow Up By: Member No 1- Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 15:50

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 15:50
nah its a square
i selected the smilie and the black smilie and all they do is end up suares on here...in word they work ok.
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FollowupID: 418953

Follow Up By: Wombat - Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 16:27

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 16:27
It's a little smilie on my screen, Nudie.
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FollowupID: 418975

Follow Up By: Member No 1- Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 17:34

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 17:34
on this forum?
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FollowupID: 418983

Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 17:36

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 17:36
It's a square for me

Mike
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FollowupID: 418984

Follow Up By: Wombat - Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 17:40

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 17:40
Yep - on this forum!

BTW my daughter thinks your pic is the funniest thing she's ever seen, but she doesn't believe me when I tell her that's exactly what you look like.
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FollowupID: 418986

Follow Up By: Member No 1- Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 17:44

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 17:44
wombat...nick off hahaha

whattha..... i copied and sent to pdf printer and the square shows as a '?'....?????
tried up load to show but it doesnt appear to be working
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FollowupID: 418987

Follow Up By: Member No 1- Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 17:47

Friday, Mar 31, 2006 at 17:47
just tried again and nope it wont work.....maybe David has cancelled my mebership....cos i owe too much on visa credit card...hehehe?
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FollowupID: 418988

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