Fitch Catylist

Submitted: Monday, Apr 10, 2006 at 20:49
ThreadID: 32762 Views:5983 Replies:28 FollowUps:89
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Well we hear of so many gadgets to improove power and consumption and various opinions. Well what about the Fitch catylist? Is this just another dimick?
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Reply By: MATT.D(WA) - Monday, Apr 10, 2006 at 20:59

Monday, Apr 10, 2006 at 20:59
Ray, The fitch has been discussed on here on many an occasion and it usually ends in a slanging match between a few forumites. A couple of people have used it with small improvements but no doubt you'll get many responses from the usual suspects. Try doing a search of the archives to see the previous posts.

Cheers Matt.
AnswerID: 166257

Reply By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Monday, Apr 10, 2006 at 21:00

Monday, Apr 10, 2006 at 21:00
do a search on this site.

The product may or may not work, but the marketing stinks!!!!

I'm sure BillS (NSW) will be along very shortly for another bit of unpaidfor adverising on the forum (if he hasn't been outright banned from here yet).

Just letting you know what you're in for.......
AnswerID: 166258

Reply By: TerraFirma - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 09:38

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 09:38
Ray, I asked the same question some months back and BANG, wish I didn't, I even got a phone call from a bloke called "BILL"..! Hang on for the ride RAY, enjoy..!

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Follow Up By: Member - Bill S (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 09:43

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 09:43
Thank you guys , LIVE and LEARN

Regards BILLS
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Reply By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 09:48

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 09:48
We should be just about getting a 5,000 km update from Roachie. Now Ray, this will no doubt help with your decision as our Mr Roach has installed same and is applying all his scientific knowledge to once and for all put this debate beyond any doubt.

Kind regards
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Reply By: Mr Fawlty - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 16:50

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 16:50
I have actually ordered one... I intend to disect it when it arrives & will post details here.
Despite my limited knowledge on matters 4X4 the basic priciples of Physics & Chemistry are up on my knowledge base. Ok, if this thing is to provide any benifit to any thing there has to be some sort of reaction between the fuel and the top secret alloy of materials inside it. Otherwise it would not do anything, i.e the fuel running thru hoses has a reaction, over time it hardens them...
Ok supposing there is a reaction taking place inside this gizmo (& there very well might) then this reaction is going to cause a depletion of material from within and this material has to go somewhere & the only place it can go is through the engine. We are talking very simple high school chemistry here, as the product is described as a catylist this therefore implies that a reaction is taking place. You put a catylist into some glues etc to get them to harden....
So no reaction = no gain and as we all know every reaction has an opposite & equal reaction so if this Fitch does as it is claimed to do then there have to be equal & opposite reactions taking place somewhere. These are the laws of physics, matter cannot be created or destroyed but merely changed...
Therefore: If the Fitch does as it is claimed then at some stage it's internal components will need to be replenished, it cannot last forever....
Frankly I hope it does work because if it dosent then there will be some considerable embarrasment to those who profess the claims of this device.
I do wonder though, all these controversial pieces of apparatus seem to come out of Queensland, I seem to recall Joh making an exgratia payment to someone who had developed a car engine that ran on water....
AnswerID: 166472

Follow Up By: Member - Bill S (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 17:17

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 17:17
Mr Fawltey. I do congradulate you on your decision to buy and try,you will then have every right to comment.But do be sure that your motor is worthy of fitting and as you drive a TOYOTA i am sure it is .As for life the only condition that would render it negative, is if the surface of the metals become impregnated with fine metal particals, it would short out and become ineffective.As for your chemical background I do respect your opinion as you know it.But this catalyst is developed by people much more clever than I will ever be.
But at least after fitting in excess of 2,000 vehicles with 4 only negative results sure tells me something.
After visiting Lake Cargellico recently I fitted a F300 to a nissan Civillian bus4.2 diesel.This bus travells from the lake to Condo and back twice a day,and the owner replies to me that he is saving five lires of fuel each trip and a better running bus.
But then according to forumites this is only a placebo effect. Now this bus has been fitted since Feb,how much has it saved in fuel costs???Then an agent of mine rings me to inform me that after he fitted a new Rodeo diesel with a F300 the vehicle travells one hundred kilometers further on each tank of fuel.this is fact like it or not..SO summing up ignor the advertisers on this site and keep on Wasting your money after all it is yours to waste.And this product is from USA.

REgards BILLS
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 18:05

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 18:05
"...if the surface of the metals become impregnated with fine metal particals, it would short out and become ineffective...."

This is NOT an electrical circuit, this is a catalyst. THERE IS NO WAY TO SHORT OUT A CATALYST!!!!!! (is this cop out number one???)
The catalyst is already in contact with the internal surface of the casing anyway so any damage would already be done, wouldn't it? Certainly would think so with a few hundred thousand km on the clock in a semi or other high vibration environment.

Mr Fawlty, use a plumbers pipe cutter to open the unit, they do not produce any debris whatsoever. Goose-stepped BillS's first hurdle..............

Next one BillS???
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Follow Up By: Leroy - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 20:05

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 20:05
'But do be sure that your motor is worthy of fitting and as you drive a TOYOTA i am sure it is'

comments like this should indicate to you Ray that this bloke and 'full o bleep z's' that the products are garbage. As for being from the USA.......what credence does this give?

Leroy.....plug in a Dtronic for more power....I did!
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 20:26

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 20:26
Well, most of those anti-aging/anti-wrinkle creams also come from the States, and from the after photos you would swear that they don't know what Paintshop Pro is either.
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Follow Up By: Mr Fawlty - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 21:02

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 21:02
Actually to make the record absolutley clear I drive a Jackeroo which I purchased GST free because I am a Vietnam Veteran in reciept of a TPI pension...I do not drive a Toyota. I have no pecunary interest in this whatever....
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Follow Up By: Member - Bill S (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 11:39

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 11:39
Mr Fawlty, What will burn quicker a peace of paper say a page or a page shredded???.If you had some knowledge of chemistry you would be aware that a true catalyst only changes the structure of that which it comes in contact with .How can their be residue thru this action?????,And further more you take your question to the users who tell me they are running on standard unleaded when before fittment they ran premium unleaded,which in case you have not noticed premium is a bit more expensive. As for your question on manufacturers warranty if any one one of those manufacturers had an ounce of sense they would adopt this to remove warranty problems,with engine fuel systems any way.One thing for sure is that this product is bigger than this forum.

Happy days BILLS
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 19:10

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 19:10
"...that a true catalyst only changes the structure of that which it comes in contact with...."

How does a change in RON make a fuel more antifungal? Scientific proof please, no mumbo-jumbo.

"...more you take your question to the users who tell me they are running on standard unleaded when before fittment they ran premium unleaded,which in case you have not noticed premium is a bit more expensive...."

Still does not solve the higher concentration of detergent/lubricant that the vehicles were designed to work with, despite any apparent increase in RON. This will sooner or later cause problems with the relatively unlubricated EFI system. Anyone doing this, DON'T.

"...if any one one of those manufacturers had an ounce of sense they would adopt this to remove warranty problems..."

And yet they still don't have enough faith in them to see them as remotely worthwhile....Perhaps it is because they DO have an ounce of sense.

BillS, why dont you make a bold push to the manufacturers, with all of you 5 pages of "R&D" from your site in hand, and publish any correspondence you get from them? Surely you would like an order for tens of thousands of units yearly in an ongoing contract, rather than the 2-3000 units you probably sell now.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As a side question or two. Have you got written confirmation from the manufacturers that fitting the Fitch, and running regular 91 RON ULP in a vehicle that was designed to run on 95-98 RON will not void the driveline warranty, and can you make the documents available on request? Do you have liability insurance to cover the potential damage should the manufacturer deny the warranty claim? Answer these carefully as they are in the public domain and can be used in court as evidence if needed.

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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:55

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:55
by "the manufacturers" I mean the vehicle manufacturers, not the Fitch manufacturers
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Friday, Apr 14, 2006 at 02:45

Friday, Apr 14, 2006 at 02:45
Two days and no answer yet from BillS.

This thread will continue to be updated by me or anyone else who wishes to get ANSWERS not rhetorec.

Dyno results. (promised months ago)
Pathology results (re: antifungal claims)
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Follow Up By: Member - Ian W (NSW) - Friday, Apr 14, 2006 at 14:43

Friday, Apr 14, 2006 at 14:43
Hi GaryInOz,

Ithink you will need to organise a roster system for this update, have a feeling it's gunna be a long wait. Ian W
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Follow Up By: Don from Fitch Fuel Catalyst Australia Pty Ltd - Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 20:23

Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 20:23
MR FAWLTY, Reply from mr Don Cameron Managing Director Fitch Fuel Catalyst Australia PTY LTD.

My attention has been drawn to remarks made by a Mr Fawlty on this forum April 2006. Whilst Choice Magazine did write a report on various fuel saving devices,including our product,they advised me that their reshearch was restricted to soley interpretations of written information available.We offered to make available a Fitch Catalyst for them to carry out their own investagation of the benifits derived from the use of our catalysy but they declined the offer.

As to NRMA we have been endevouring to have them test our product over the past three years and to our knowledge this has not been effected yet.thru political reasons within their ranks.I am in discussion with Mr Jack Haley,Vehicle Policy Advisor,on a regular basis,who advised me that it had recently been resolved to carry out a series of tests on various fuel savings devices available on the market,of which testing would be carried out by the AAA in Canberra.He further advised he had forwarded information he held on our product to the AAA.

I refute the claims made by MR Fawlty as spuroius and ill foundered.

Don Cameron
Managing Director
FitchFuel Catalyst Australia Pty Ltd
p/obox 443
Cremorne NSW 2090
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 21:25

Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 21:25
So Don What you are trying to say is it has never been indpendantly tested?
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 23:44

Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 23:44
Don Cameron/BillS (isn't it fraud to portray yourself as someone else?)

"...they advised me that their reshearch was restricted to soley interpretations of written information available...."

...and that it has insufficient data on it to be credibly researched? Seems YOU have a bit of work to do, then, doesn't it??? Basically flaky evidence, if any.

"...of which testing would be carried out by the AAA in Canberra.He further advised he had forwarded information he held on our product to the AAA...."

...who would be not be able to download what little there is for themselves from your website? First point of any scientific research is to gather your own data...
What sort of timeframe were the NRMA talking about for these tests, and when are they likely to be published? We wait with baited breath..........

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Follow Up By: Member - Ian W (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 06:35

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 06:35
OK Don Cameron,

Where can we obtain a copy of this alleged "report" from Choice. Please advise the issue so that I may contact Choice and order a back copy.

I would suggest that most people would refut the claims made about "that product" on the same grounds that you refute Mr.Fawlty's comments

Ian
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Follow Up By: Mr Fawlty - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 11:04

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 11:04
Really Don, come on mate, give me a break. You would be a much wiser man to spend some time in buying a spell & grammar checker.....Your posts are unintelligible...You make no sense. All we are asking for is some actual independent test results which for whatever reason you cannot provide.
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Reply By: Mr Fawlty - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 17:09

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 17:09
Some more info on this amazingk thingk:
Sugar pills in the gas tank

Not sure if you've seen this around, but I just noticed something on Today Tonight that seems to be right up your alley. It's called the Fitch Fuel Catalyst (alarm bells), and it's supposed to improve your car's fuel efficiency (alarm bells number 2) by doing various things to the structure of the fuel, as well as somehow suppressing bacterial growth in it, all combining to produce a cleaner, better fuel (by this stage the alarm bells had broken from ringing so much).

I'd be interested to know your opinion. Their web site is at fitchfuelcatalyst.com, and their technical info section includes some lovely pictures of scientists and hydrocarbons, which appear to be 5-butyldecane and 2,3-methylhexane, though they may not be the official IUPAC names - I've only done six months of first-year chemistry at this stage.

Luke

Answer:
Time for another rule of thumb: Any Amazing Story No (Parent/Motorist/Sentient Fungus) Should Miss that appears on either of Australia's two popular tabloid current affairs shows, Today Tonight and A Current Affair, is in my opinion likely to be profoundly misleading, at best.

TT and ACA are roughly neck and neck in the journalistic turpitude stakes. Both shows say things that're true from time to time, but they are perfectly happy to lie if necessary to fill air time. This isn't news, of course; it's just tabloid TV. Viewers are supposed to be sophisticated enough to know the difference between this stuff and actual journalism. Though they often, of course, aren't.

The Fitch catalyst is fairly well known. It "works" by the same placebo effect as various other useless items.

As usual, this thing'd be a multi-billion dollar invention, if it worked. And yet, after years on the market, it's still being pimped on crappy current affairs shows.

(Because, of course, the oil company conspiracy keeps such things off the market. You know, like it did with fuel injection, and engine control computers, and improved aerodynamics, and lightweight materials, and low rolling resistance tyres...)

The punch line: Yes, you guessed it, A Current Affair did a piece on the same Catalyst in 2002.

Since these shows shamelessly recycle material (including, occasionally, the same interviewees UNDER DIFFERENT NAMES...), I surmised that these may not have been the only appearances of the Catalyst on Australian crap-TV. And, indeed, they weren't! Luke got back to me to point out that according to Today Tonight, they "discovered" the Fuel Catalyst four years ago, and have done various stories on it and other fuel savers over the years.

That darn oil company conspiracy seems to still be keeping 'em all down, though.
AnswerID: 166480

Reply By: Member - John R (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 17:10

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 17:10
Meester. Fawlty! Meester. Fawlty! (Barcelona accent)

The most controversial piece of apparatus to come out of QLD was Joh himself. Or was it BIG Russ Hinze? :-)

What you're proposing could be the biggest debunking since Peter Brock's "Energy Polariser". :-) Bring it on...

What pricked my ears was the claim somewhere else that this device "removes impurities" from the fuel. I would have thought that:

a. The refining process did removed impurities, and;

b. Removing impurities must have some sort of byproduct from the "catalysing" process, whether it be either a solid, liquid or gas. Where do these impurities go? They can't go through the engine because they are impurities and this would defeat the purpose in the first place. Therefore, the only conclusion I can come to is that they remain somewhere in the cannister?

Can't wait for the photos!
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Follow Up By: Member - John R (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 17:13

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 17:13
I forgot. The Indonesians have allegedly bought a kazillion of them. That makes it credible. (PUKE)
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Follow Up By: Mr Fawlty - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 18:52

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 18:52
John, Love the accent by the way...The Energy Polariser was a Fitch in different clothing...was it not, maybe I have my placebo's xed. The trouble was in those days I was enjoying sex & had no money for an airfare...Now of course Sybil has reached Menopause & I have to chase down spritley 20 yo bimbos for sex which is very dangerous. I wonder if a fitch could be installed inside me somewhere to restore my virility?
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Reply By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 17:26

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 17:26
Talk about recycling old stories!
Whenever it gets boring on EO, someone trots out the Fitch for another run. Sounds a bit like TT and ACA.
Don't know if the product works, but some interesting points raised above.
But I do love the debate. Much better than TV for entertainment.
AnswerID: 166483

Follow Up By: Mr Fawlty - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 18:44

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 18:44
Norm.... It's all good mate....& you are so right - far better entertainment than the box.
I, like you am not totally convinced either way... I am just a tad disturbed though by the reaction of Choice & the NRMA to the question : Does the Fitch do what it is claimed? Choice - we asked to test it in our labs but our offer was declined. NRMA Technical - We did try one for a while on a road service van but after several months we could not detect any difference between the test vehicle & the other vehicles of the same make & model....

Some of the questions others are asking are valid and there seems to be no rational answer.

As to selling them to Indonesia, well sorry chaps that proves nothing. In a totalitarian regime like Indonesia any & everything can happen but the truth takes many years to come out... I await enthusiastically for the "Oil for Fitch" enquiry...
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Reply By: Member - Bill S (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 19:52

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 19:52
TO ALL debaters,, Fitch Fuel Catalyst does not remove anything from the fuel purely alters the structure of it to keep it FRESH (no algie growth in diesel) maintains octain rating of petrol keeps it FRESH.and further more Ray it is most definatley not a dimick nor is it a gimick. The challenge to ALL is use it and prove me WRONG.

Regards BILLS
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Follow Up By: Leroy - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 20:10

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 20:10
also turns water into wine, sugar into cocain....etc etc.....oh I forgot it turns my old stale 91 octane fuel into optimax! wot a product!!

Leroy
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 20:19

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 20:19
So we have to spend our money to prove to you that your product works.....don't think so, somehow.

Why don't YOU spend YOUR money and PROVE to US that it DOES work, by performing a dyno pre and post on a range of vehicles, like you said you were going to do/were doing MONTHS ago.


Where is the data, and where is the proof. "Data" does NOT mean testimonials, it means cold hard objective VERIFIABLE facts. (yes, I've seen the American reports on your site, very thin on details, ie ambient temp during tests, driving "style" during testing cycles, air pressure/density altitude, etc. Also noted that Fitch supplied all the fuel for all the tests, not exactly objective tamperproof testing is it...)

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Follow Up By: Mr Fawlty - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 20:58

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 20:58
Another long & subjective Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm with an eyebrow raised...I would like to see some objective test data from an independant lab here in AUSTRALIA...If Fitch indeed declined the offer of testing by Choice then that leaves a big hole in any sales pitch...Why did Fitch decline any such testing? & why, if this product is so good, is as the other post ask "being pimped" on a website? If this thing works it is a multimillion$$$ invention, if not just another fraud.

Also why is the salesman allowed on this forum to make such claims when he can't substantiate them with hard facts from a known testing lab? Testimonials prove nothing either, who can say if they are genuine, & who in their right mind would after spending a fortune on this admit that it did nothing except lower their bank balance...

Now I recon the ultimate would be a hiclone made from the same alloy....

Ok I'm not a member, & my comments may well be out of order, but if membership by snake oil salesmen is encouraged maybe I should take my comments elsewhere...
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Follow Up By: Member - John R (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 21:17

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 21:17
Algie (algae) normally grows in the tank. Not the fuel line.

However, I ask again: If the catalysation(?) process now removes impurities (this time algae), where does the byproduct of the catalysed algae (intercepted in the fuel line) go?

I smell a rat.

"Is not a rat....Is a filigree Siberian Hamster" (Barcelona accent again) :-)

"What?! Don't you have rats in Spain?...Or did Franco have them all shot?!"

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
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Follow Up By: tgy321 - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 21:18

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 21:18
Ihave thought about this produt for long time when had a landy I now have a pajero NF 1988 Petrol what is the best one to use for my car?Thanks Bill S (NSW)
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Follow Up By: Member - Bill S (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 21:52

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 21:52
HI tgy321,Mate a F200 bolted on RH inner guard area will suffice for you,and If you dont savealitre or more of fuel for every 100klms you drive I will personally come to you refund your money.

Regards BILLS
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Follow Up By: Member - Bill S (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 22:02

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 22:02
TO Leyroy,How clever are you??Every single person I have fitted this too report back to me that they were using premium fuel and since fitting reverted back to normal unleaded with premium effect smart lad?????Bang ON well done..

BILLS
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 23:00

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 23:00
If their vehicle is designed to run on 95-98 RON fuel and you are running it on 91 how do you think your vehicle manufacturers warranty will hold up if you have a problem. Cant get away from it, 91 is a different colour to 95 and 98, they will see it in you vehicle and youc can say goodnight to any cover. 95/98 has more and better detergent for the higher tolerance vehicles they are specified in. YOU CANNOT "CREATE" THIS DETERGENT (really would be a water to wine exercise).

BillS, you've been watching too much TVSN. Complimenting people for buying your product is one of the most basic of all marketing tools. Get's ppl in the "feel good, thanks for the compliment" mentality.

...and once again BillS

Why don't YOU spend YOUR money and PROVE to US that it DOES work, by performing a dyno pre and post on a range of vehicles, like you said you were going to do/were doing MONTHS!!!!!!!! ago.
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Follow Up By: Leroy - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 11:26

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 11:26
this guy cracks me up every time lol. BillS how about you personally come and install one on a mates Subaru that pings it's tits off if it runs on anything other than premium fuel. We'll put regular unleaded in and see what happens. I bet it won't make a difference but lets see if you are up to the challenge. We could get a heap of forumites for a Melb gathering for the event.

Leroy
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Follow Up By: Member - Bill S (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 15:06

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 15:06
HEY Leyroy, You have put your big mouth in it now buddy,give Robert Knox a ring he is our VIC distributor 0397785078 but of course you being in vic wont need the 03.Get all your, as you call forumites together and Robert will set up a test on the mentioned vehicle at one of his agents.This will prove to you and other doubters just what occurs,but be sure you post your appolagies for your ignorance,once you wipe the egg from your face.The agent has gas annalysers and all for all to see. The agent has fitted hundreds of vehicles with this product and is very conversant with the results.I will bow out now and await your findings.

Regards BILL
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Follow Up By: Leroy - Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 14:40

Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 14:40
HEY Bills,
Didn't know this thread was still going. Inform your distributor that there may be a call. Also inform your distibutor that he won't be setting up tests. The only test is a before and after test drive of the vehicle. If it pings before and after the test - fitch fails! And to prove this,premium will be put in the tank.

Leroy
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 17:02

Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 17:02
Leroy, get BillS/Fich to foot the bill for a pre and post dyno, and don't use any premium, only use standard ULP, as a part of BillS's claims are that it can improve the octane rating (or at least reduce the pinging).

BillS are you up for it? Can you liase with your reseller to make this happen? Here is the opportunity to start clearing your products' reputation (and in fact your reputation).
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Follow Up By: Don from Fitch Fuel Catalyst Australia Pty Ltd - Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 20:41

Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 20:41
GaryIn Oz, No problem,what you have set there is perfect
.Robert Knox 97785078
is our Vic Distributor and Alan Sanders Automotive is his agent
.Wheels are in motion for this event to happen andfurther to that have as many forumites present to witness the egg running from the faces of you doubters .

Regards BILLS
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 23:54

Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 23:54
Don Cameron/BillS

So:

1: The dyno before and after will be paid for by you/your company/your dealer.
2: Leroy will not be out of pocket at all other than for the unit itself.
3: If the unit does not do what it is alleged to do that the unit may be removed with full refund of unit cost and fitment cost at Leroy's discretion.

Can you catagorically state that this is the case?
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Follow Up By: Leroy - Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 14:07

Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 14:07
Gary, Emails between me and my suby pinging mate. Must read top to bottom but the gist is he needs his arm twisted but like me realises it's a waste of time also.

Read from bottom of page
-----Original Message-----
I cant see how it can do that.

A catalyst cant actually turn an ugly sister into cinderella, it just turns the lights out and reduces her modesty so she runs as hard as she
can in the sack. :)

If this thing is a true catalyst ( which i doubt ) then all it will do is help 91 ron run like 91ron should, it wont turn it into 98.

Completely different principle and idea but it's the hiclone thing all over again, in most modern vehicles with a decent swirl happening in the inlet manifold a hiclone will do next to nothing, but put it in a 75 series or an old Landy and it will give it an extra 5 -10hp by getting the fuel/ air mix going as it should, promoting decent combustion.

If the vehicle is designed properly in the first place then these things are a waste of money, but in some cases they do actually work.

D



>>>
>>>
Personally I couldn't be bothered. He has carried on on the forum for quite some time and we all bag him to bits so it would be good to put him in his place. He comes out with all sorts of outlandish claims with his latest being that it converts regular to premium while still improving performance and economy.

Regards,

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Wednesday, 19 April 2006 9:07 AM

Subject: RE: pinging suby

Dunno, sounds like a pain in the arse actually, it's gonna have to have the tank drained to test it on normal unleaded ( or take it there with fu*k all in it ).

Where does this thing mount anyway ??????

And it's not playing up, why would I want to stuff around with a car that is running sweetly.

But yes, he does sound like a d1ckh3ad and if he wasnt paying for sponsorship of the site im sure he would have been kicked off. Seems they are hard on anyone promoting a product , unless you are a site advertiser and then you get free rein.

>>>
>>>
So ru up to the challenge?

Sent: Tuesday, 18 April 2006 3:01 PM

Subject: Re: pinging suby

yes if we did , but haven't really ever run it on normal unleaded.
95
ron premium was our minimum spec when we filled up ( unless we were in the country and there wasnt any )

98 octane only for the suby, it's a jap import STI spec donk, so even 100 ron jap fuel was minimum spec for it.

we use Mobil Synergy 8000 only in xxxxx's car and dont have any issues.

Used to use BP 95 ron (had slight residual pinging on long hills )
and
optimax ( stopped after getting 2 bad batches of fuel with water in it from Shell xxxxxxxx and neither the servo or Shell wanting to fix it,
cost us $2500 all up for that little fu@k up )

If you know somwone with a suby turbo thats doing this , get them to get an upper cylinder cleaner from Subaru and use it. maybe twice initially. THis should be done every 10,000 kms ( every service ) as the piston top and head coke up really badly with normal city putting around. These cars need a hard drive or long drive regularly to help combat this but it's a common problem.

-----Original Message-----
Hey do you still have this prob when running on regular unleaded?



Regards,
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FollowupID: 423305

Reply By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 21:44

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 21:44
Not knocking Fitch as I know little about it. But if you have a diesel and you are after power and economy improvements, it might be worth checking out the diesel / gas conversions being offered by a number of companies. It seems a simple technology that most of us can understand. It has no 'secret herbs and spices' and reported results seem to be quite tangible, not relying principally on testimonials.

I know little about this one so far either, but it has my attention.

Another alternative worth considering anyway.
AnswerID: 166547

Reply By: awill4x4 - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 22:21

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 22:21
The simplest and best test is to stick one in a sales reps car and don't tell him it's there. Their fuel usage and kms travelled are documented and seeing as it's not their car they drive it like they stole it and dont give a rats (sorry, filigree Siberian Hamsters) @rse about fuel ecomony and as they don't know it's there there's no possible placebo effect.
Regards Andrew.
AnswerID: 166554

Follow Up By: Member - Bill S (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 17:43

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 17:43
That is a brilliant Idea,but have done it and proved right.AS to somone elses remark that Choice mag were denied a unit to test be assured the shoe is on the other foot choice mag actually refused an offer. put by myself to test this unit and their excuse was no facilitys.
Also be aware that NRMA in conjunction with AAA are organising to test several systems fitch being one of them. And as major companys have allready done this and had FITCH come put on top of everthing else,it is only a matter of time and they too will realise what fitch is.

Happy fuel wasting over easter non believers.

Regards BILLS
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FollowupID: 421651

Follow Up By: Mr Fawlty - Friday, Apr 14, 2006 at 13:29

Friday, Apr 14, 2006 at 13:29
Bills, You're remark about Choice is an absolute outright lie.... Totally and provable I have asked Choice to forward on copies of the correspondence where it is alleged that Fitch Fuel Catalyst, Australia Pty Ltd, PO Box 443 CREMORNE NSW 2090 declined the offer to test the fitch device at the CSIRO labs...

Mate you should be in politics, I'l wager your mixed up in the AWB scandal somewhere...

The NRMA technical department have stated categorically that they "Tested a Fitch device for 3 months in a service vehicle with no improvement noticed what so ever"
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FollowupID: 422016

Follow Up By: Member - Ian W (NSW) - Friday, Apr 14, 2006 at 14:41

Friday, Apr 14, 2006 at 14:41
Allright Bill S,

You now have my rapt attention.

WHAT MAYOR COMPANIES - I await ypur reply

Ian
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FollowupID: 422020

Follow Up By: Member - Bill S (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 13:23

Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 13:23
Hi Ian, A very sensible question rates an answer,Sadly unable to name the companys due to being gagged, until official notification takes place.Business ethics take high priotry in my world. Driving a 2005TD auto Cruiser GXL filled at Shellharbour nsw drove to Young and Cowra surrounds and back to Nowra via Nerriga and fuel light came on just out of nowra on main tank 800klms So dont tell me FITCH doesnt work

Regards BILLS
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FollowupID: 422751

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 16:33

Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 16:33
"...Business ethics take high priotry in my world...."

ROFLMAO!!!!!

Do those ethics mean that you are going to publish the dyno results that YOU PERSONALLY promised months ago? ("...as a matter of fact I'm having them done now", or words to that effect several months ago, still nothing here or on your website...)

Do you have the "ethics" to follow up on ANYTHING you say?
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FollowupID: 422787

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 16:43

Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 16:43
"...Driving a 2005TD auto Cruiser GXL filled at Shellharbour nsw drove to Young and Cowra surrounds and back to Nowra via Nerriga and fuel light came on just out of nowra on main tank 800klms So dont tell me Fitch doesnt work ..."

Enough of the godammned testimonials!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You say it works, we say put it on a dyno and prove it TO US!!!!! We SHOULD NOT have to pay for YOUR R&D!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Step away from the keyboard, get on a phone to any speed shop with a dyno (PLENTY of the around) and do a properly conducted dyno test. 3 vehicles with and without the Fich (intentionally misspelt to avoid adverter linking)
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FollowupID: 422789

Follow Up By: Member - Ian W (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 06:46

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 06:46
It's bloody marvelous, we can never disclose the names of these companies who experience miraculous results due to "business ethics".

WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!.

What "official notification'? Notification of what? to who? by who?

Bill, the longer you go on the dodgier you sound. You seem to have more twists and turns than Luna Parks Roller Coaster.

Your marketing skills are atrocious to the point of being non existent, reading your replies on this thread would be enough to drive any straight thinking person in the opposite direction. Why not stop now befor you dig a deaper hole, yourjust about through to China.
Ian
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FollowupID: 422928

Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 01:24

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 01:24
Jeez!!! I loved this Fitchy stuff, it is really the most entertaining posts that appear on here.
Bill S, Mate, Pal you really should have been a comedian, I just piss myself everytime you touch the keyboard.
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AnswerID: 166576

Reply By: Member - Ian W (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 09:38

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 09:38
Bill S has been promising independant dyno tests for some time now but all are still to surface. I seem to remember "tests are being conducted shortly" by NRMA and RAC. Still have not seen them.

Any "reports" by laboratories compiled from "data" supplied by Bill S. are, in my humble opinion are totally without merit.

However in all fairness I should point out that Bill S. has told me that I should get educated

Ian
AnswerID: 166619

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 10:40

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 10:40
Vote number two for you to publish your dyno results...

anyone else?
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FollowupID: 421530

Follow Up By: Mr Fawlty - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 11:39

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 11:39
Can I second that?
At first I thought that this gizmo may just work but when I phoned NRMA and they told me that one had been trialled unbeknown to Fitch as Fitch actually declined both the NRMA & Choice's request to lab test one, & found no actual differences then I became sceptical.

Dyno results don't do much for me either... we have an item that is called a catylist, it somehow catalyses fuel without any chemical reaction actually taking place. When I get mine I am going to take it to "Australian Metallurgy Labs' & have the alloy analysed, not a difficult proceedure for anyone with a gas chromatograph. Yes it will cost me, however if the alloy proves to have no possible effect then I will recover my costs by way of litigation (mate who is a Barrister)... too simple. On the other hand if this alloy works, then I will buy shares and market it properly with the lab data available to all.

Now should Fitch decide to litigate against me for taking the step of analysing their sintered (proprietory process) alloy then that will save me the expense of analysis...

Oh I am going to enjoy this....Stay tuned for further updates....
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FollowupID: 421542

Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 12:35

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 12:35
I wait with baited breath, This just gets better all the time. LOL
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 19:15

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 19:15
Mr Fawlty,

Could you get your barrister friend to cast his eyes over these questions and see if they are valid?

Have you got written confirmation from the manufacturers that fitting the Fitch, and running regular 91 RON ULP in a vehicle that was designed to run on 95-98 RON will not void the driveline warranty, and can you make the documents available on request?

Do you have liability insurance to cover the potential damage should the manufacturer deny the warranty claim?
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FollowupID: 421677

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 19:16

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 19:16
Ohhhhh Meester Fawlty...LOLOLOL
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FollowupID: 421678

Follow Up By: Mr Fawlty - Friday, Apr 14, 2006 at 13:37

Friday, Apr 14, 2006 at 13:37
IanW, don't sell yourself short mate, your grammar and spelling looks fine to me, it's obvious by the nature of the posts whether a person is educated...I recon Bill S was having a personal snyde gybe at you & that, I believe, is against the rules of the forum... or are personal attacks allowed? If they are lookout BillS....
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FollowupID: 422017

Follow Up By: Member - Ian W (NSW) - Friday, Apr 14, 2006 at 14:37

Friday, Apr 14, 2006 at 14:37
Mr Fawlty,
I was having a barbed shot at Bill S. On many occasions in the past, Bill S. has told those who take exception to his outlandish claims, (me included), "to get educated".

The inference being of course, that if one does not swallow Bill's crap then it's due to ones ignorance.
This all from a guy whose posts are not the greatest as far as spelling, syntax and grammar.

I accept that we all have our various strengths and weakness, mine being my spelling amongst heaps of others, however there always seems to be a certain point when Bill's frustration comes to the fore and he seems to get more than a little personal.

Some people get suckered into buying these types of magical products, then once in a while there is a real doozy where someone gets suckered into buying the franchise. I suppose if that person is desperate to make back their investment then there will be the occasion when their reaction to doubters may be over the top.

Maybe we should declare a "be kind to Bill week" where we all nod and agree with him for one week. I don't of course for one minute suggest we buy his product, I'm not that caring/stupid.

Ian
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FollowupID: 422019

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 13:14

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 13:14
Obviously the search function on this site failed again?
AnswerID: 166649

Follow Up By: Leroy - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 14:02

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 14:02
sometimes you have to make sure that good debate is still alive!

Leroy
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FollowupID: 421580

Reply By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Friday, Apr 14, 2006 at 02:45

Friday, Apr 14, 2006 at 02:45
Two days and no answer yet from BillS.

This thread will continue to be updated by me or anyone else who wishes to get ANSWERS not rhetorec.

Dyno results. (promised months ago)
Pathology results (re: antifungal claims)
AnswerID: 166960

Reply By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Saturday, Apr 15, 2006 at 01:57

Saturday, Apr 15, 2006 at 01:57
We'll be genorous and give BillS Easter off, but be assured that this thread will be kept at page 1 or 2 if I (or someone else) does not update it, until the dyno and pathology results are in.
AnswerID: 167087

Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Saturday, Apr 15, 2006 at 02:08

Saturday, Apr 15, 2006 at 02:08
The testing has been done by Roachie and i do believe he has pulled it off to get his money back as it made no difference to fuel consumption (surprise suprise)
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FollowupID: 422100

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Saturday, Apr 15, 2006 at 02:17

Saturday, Apr 15, 2006 at 02:17
Still doesn't change the statements made by BillS

Dyno (due)
Parthology report (expected to substantiate claim)
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FollowupID: 422101

Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Saturday, Apr 15, 2006 at 03:03

Saturday, Apr 15, 2006 at 03:03
I notice he has a new claim that fitch "freshens" the fuel I havnt heard that one before I am thinking of putting one in the fridge to see if it will "freshen" the slimey peice of quter chicken in there
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FollowupID: 422106

Reply By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Monday, Apr 17, 2006 at 00:08

Monday, Apr 17, 2006 at 00:08
Up you get....

A bit of free advertising for you, BillS

AnswerID: 167315

Reply By: Mr Fawlty - Monday, Apr 17, 2006 at 10:02

Monday, Apr 17, 2006 at 10:02
Yep, I'm still awaiting my gizmo for disection & analysis.

I do notice that the people who make this are ExplorOz sponsors. Wonder what happens if it turns out to be a fraud?

Just keeping the topic alive. Hope Bill S had an enjoyable Easter along with the rest of you...

I do suspect that the foil of Easter Eggs dropped into your Tank will provide as much benifit as the gizmo. I no longer am referring to it by it's trade name because every time I do it presents as a hyperlink & takes you to the website....
AnswerID: 167333

Follow Up By: Member - John R (NSW) - Monday, Apr 17, 2006 at 10:12

Monday, Apr 17, 2006 at 10:12
Or perhaps those "noble metals" contained within are made from recycled easter-egg wrapping foil?

I always wondered where the old ones went ;-)

I just found another use. Chocolate catalyst. In goes the Cadbury - out comes Ernest Hillier! Outstanding!

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FollowupID: 422458

Follow Up By: Mr Fawlty - Monday, Apr 17, 2006 at 10:58

Monday, Apr 17, 2006 at 10:58
Hey JohnR, Now you have a point there. Bill S has stated clearly & categorically that this thing contains "noble Metals" he even names a few...So what is wrong with this? Well by definition Noble Metals are inert... What does inert mean? Well basically it means that they take no place in any chemical reaction... so that means this thing must work by a magical power far beyong the comprehension of mortal man...Or have I got this all wrong?
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FollowupID: 422462

Follow Up By: Keith_A (Qld) - Monday, Apr 17, 2006 at 12:53

Monday, Apr 17, 2006 at 12:53
Could I make a couple of comments, more by way of definition, without supporting either side. It is probably a bit long winded, but hope you will follow.

The word 'Noble Metal' refers to the class of metals that are resistance to oxidation. Almost inert but not quite.
These include Copper, Gold, Silver, Platinum, Palladium.
( In physics the definition of a noble metal requires that the d-bands of the electronic structure are filled. Taking this into account, only copper, silver and gold are noble metals by the strict definition.)
They are also referred to as the coinage metals, and you would be aware that many civilizations of the world have used these metals for making their currency.
Of old, Alchemists devoted their time trying to convert 'base' metals into 'noble' metals (eg lead into gold - Merlin the magician.).

What have these to do with catalysts?

First , a definition may be helpful:
' A catalyst makes a reaction happen. In a process known as catalysis, a relatively small amount of foreign material, called a catalyst, augments the rate of a chemical reaction without being consumed in the reaction. A catalyst can make a reaction go faster and in a more selective manner. Because of its ability to speed up some reactions and not others, a catalyst enables a chemical process to work more efficiently and often with less waste. Hence, catalysts are important in industrial chemistry.

Another definition:
A catalyst is a substance that accelerates a chemical reaction without
being changed by the reaction. Different substances catalyze different
reactions.

Understanding the structure and chemistry of the catalyst surface is essential, because that's where the reaction takes place. Because the reaction takes place on the surface, these materials can work efficiently in small amounts. One molecule of catalyst can make a million molecules of product.

One well known application is in reduced exhaust emissions from cars.
Petrochemical fuels burn (= combines with oxygen = oxidises) and produces among other things Nitric Oxide = one atom of nitrogen combined with one of oxygen. This is a major contributor to petrochemical smog, acid rain, and has a harmful effect on us (humans).

As the exhaust gases pass over the surface of the catalyst ( usually platinum and/or palladium), the N-O bond is broken (it is not very stong) and the (nitrogen) atoms bonds to the metal, which leaves the O (oxygen) molocules free which then bond to each other = O2. The N atoms then bond into N2 (clean nitrogen) and break free from the surface of the catalyst.

So, we start with a harmful gas -Nitric oxide (NO), and end up with two 'clean' gases - Nitrogen and Oxygen. The catalyst is not consumed.

The NO bond is not strong (see chemical valancies), and left to escape will bond with another oxygen in the air. You then get NO2 - which is the major pollutant gas from cars. Governments around the world legislated for car makers to add catalysts to their exhaust systems, to convert NO gases into N2 and O2 rather than release NO which then becomes NO2 in the atmosphere.

(The catalyst in cars are also designed to oxidise the unburnt hyrdocarbons.eg burn the unburnt fuel in the exhaust).

Catalysis is practiced by almost every major chemical company, Pharmaceutical company, and Oil company in the world.

Sorry for the long winded discussion.
If you want to get totally confused, read into quantum physics. Now thats when this world REALLY starts looking strange....have a good one...
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FollowupID: 422482

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Monday, Apr 17, 2006 at 16:50

Monday, Apr 17, 2006 at 16:50
"...If you want to get totally confused, read into quantum physics. Now thats when this world REALLY starts looking strange....have a good one..."

Ah, yes. The cat with a buttered slice of bread tied to its back....will hover in the air due to quantum indecision LOLOL
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Follow Up By: Keith_A (Qld) - Monday, Apr 17, 2006 at 17:05

Monday, Apr 17, 2006 at 17:05
Damn - and I thought the bullet train was magnetic levitation.
Those cheap bastards.......
Now that explains the noise they make on the curves...mee...owwwwwwwww
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FollowupID: 422504

Follow Up By: Mr Fawlty - Monday, Apr 17, 2006 at 19:24

Monday, Apr 17, 2006 at 19:24
Keith, That may have been long wided but it was a very good explanation...
I was not so sure that copper was a very noble metal, it corrodes easily dosen't it...
So this thing could therefore, from your dissertation, actually work. I just wonder why then the makers /distributors will not publish some substantial scientific data... Seems very curious to me..
The Bullet Train runs on tracks and is driven using similar technology to a high speed tram... The noise on the curves is called flange squeal, yes even trams do that too...
Duck down to Ferny Grove on a Sunday arvo & listen....
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FollowupID: 422542

Follow Up By: Keith_A (Qld) - Monday, Apr 17, 2006 at 19:54

Monday, Apr 17, 2006 at 19:54
The older I get, the less I see this world in black and white.
In strict theory - it is possible for the compounds in the liquid to be modified in some (unknown) way by comming in contact with a catalyst compound.
I would be very suprised if it were true.
(though I have been know to be wrong before. Back in 1975 I think :).

Then there is the technicians answer to your question.
Known for years by all computer repairers; motor mechanics etc.
When a customer asks why their appliance doesn't work ( or why in the Young double split experiment an electron takes one path rather than another) when all else fails we explain it is the technical term GOK.
When pressed, you will need to actually admit what the acronism means.
And without trying to be the least bit humourous, it stands for:
God Only Knows.
With the usual forum caveat: -not wishing to endorse or otherwise anyones belief or non-belief in a diety or multiple dieties (or the background radiation from the big bang if that is your diety).

Put simply, there do exist in this world some things that we, with our human limitations, cannot explain.
Is this one of them? GOK. ( See how GOK can explain things - Try it)!
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FollowupID: 422562

Follow Up By: Keith_A (Qld) - Monday, Apr 17, 2006 at 21:19

Monday, Apr 17, 2006 at 21:19
I will be offline for a week - attending a freebie, known in technical speak as a conference. I should correct one statement in my catalyst discussion.
The NO bond should be described as unstable, rather than weak (not strong).
Be kind to one another..................
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FollowupID: 422621

Follow Up By: Member - Andrew W (SA) - Sunday, May 07, 2006 at 16:58

Sunday, May 07, 2006 at 16:58
The catalytic reactions generally require energy - often in the form of heat - to actually work.

This is why catalytic convertors in cars don't tend to work when they are cold.

Not sure about the Filch.
Andrew.
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FollowupID: 426782

Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Monday, Apr 17, 2006 at 22:13

Monday, Apr 17, 2006 at 22:13
I promised BillS that I wouldn't "bag" his product on this forum and I will stand by that promise.

However, just to set the record straight, I fitted the Fitch to my 2000 model GU Patrol 4.2TD and ran it for about 2 months, doing around 3000klm. There was NO discernable change to my fuel economy and I did not vary my driving technique. The test period was done over the same type of terrain and use that I always do. By that, I mean there was the normal daily short drive to work 5 days a week and most weekends we get away with the camper trailer for a several-hundred klick trip somewhere around the state of SA.

Bill implored me to get my pump screwed back by half a turn before sending it back; the idea being that by "de-tuning" it, I would use less fuel. Well I was not about to undo the work of experts at Berri Diesel Service whom I had paid handsomely only months earlier, when they fitted a new turbo.

To his credit, BillS did quickly credit the funds back into my bank account once he received the package back from me.

I tried it and it didn't work for me. I'm not saying it is going to be this way with others' vehicles.........BillS seems to have a list of happy owners as long as your arm, and it beggars belief that they would all be placebo effect, doesn't it??? I guess it's a bit like the HiClone debate......some blokes swear by them too and others reckon they are a waste of space and money.

Anyway, that's my findings, FWIW....

Cheers
\
Roachie
AnswerID: 167481

Follow Up By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 13:34

Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 13:34
Good balanced post Roachie. I think the key point is that regardless of what some people think about the product (or Bill and his posts on this forum for that matter), Fitch promised a money back guarantee and they honoured it. So nothing to be lost but time, for anyone wanting to check it out for themselves.

I don't plan on doing so, but others might.
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FollowupID: 422754

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 22:03

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 22:03
Credit where credit is due, BillS/Don..............
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FollowupID: 423176

Reply By: flappa - Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 13:56

Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 13:56
Ah , the power of the Advertising Dollar eh.

If anyone else responded with the rubbish Bill posts , they would have been kicked off by know , but , surprise surprise , the ads he pays for on here seem to allow him complete freedom.
AnswerID: 167565

Reply By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 16:47

Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 16:47
BillS's quote of the day:

FollowUp 4 of 6 posted 18 Apr 2006 at 13:23 - (FollowupID: 422751)

"...Business ethics take high priotry in my world...."

ROFLMAO!!!!!

AnswerID: 167589

Follow Up By: Don from Fitch Fuel Catalyst Australia Pty Ltd - Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 17:38

Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 17:38
OK Guys &Gals, Lets sraighten a few points out here.1/ Iam Director of FFCA 2/Also managing director of Fitch southern NSW.I personally have fitted approx 2,000 vehicles with this product over a 5year period,with the average customer relaying that they are travelling up to 100klms further on each tank of fuel.Returns have been 5 over this period.I have just covered a trip over Easter filled at shellharbour NSW,travelled to Young then Cowra and surrounds then returned to Shellharbour via Nerriga and Nowra a distance of 945.7 kilometers filled with fuel (with a witness) 97.2 litres=10.28 ltrs PH. The second point this product was arranged to be tested and reported on at Central Qld uni but their dyno collapsed end of story.Further points are if you dont want to save money so be it, but do not whinge about fuel prices.Second if you want to continue putting 50% more pollution than necessary into OUR atmosphere carry on.Then if you do not want your motor to last longer carry on.If you want to continue smelling that rotten egg gas emitted from unleaded fuel wear it. Third point if you want to correct all of this FIT a FITCH. This may well be my last answer except for intellagent questions.
My name my contact details are on our website for anyone who wishes to have a conversation on this product ,and thank you for all your kind words from those who uttered and also thank you to my knockers who know nothing of this product.

Kindest regards BILLS (ps I do feel i have learned something of running a business over the past 30 odd years)
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FollowupID: 422809

Follow Up By: drifta - Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 18:02

Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 18:02
what good is telling everybody that this vehicle did 10.28ltrs PH if you don't tell us what the vehicle is and what the economy was before you fitted the fitch.
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FollowupID: 422814

Follow Up By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 18:28

Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 18:28
Well Don, I see where BillS gets his aggressive style from. I understand your frustration, but you are the MD who sets the business culture and how it is represented. You obviously think this is the right way to present your business on a public forum read by thousands of people(most of whom have never posted a negative comment on your business and are just curious observers of this debate).

That is your company style and you are entitled to it. But is certainly is not mine, and I suspect most others.
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FollowupID: 422819

Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 18:37

Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 18:37
Is this Don and Bill S one and the same? (They tell the same story line)

Or is this Don just wishing Bill S Kindest regards?

Or is this Bill S just using Don from Flichy's sign on details?

The mind boggles.....

Still the most entertaining post on EO for years.
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FollowupID: 422822

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 18:46

Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 18:46
"...and thank you for all your kind words from those who uttered and also thank you to my knockers who know nothing of this product...."

We only know what we have read in this forum (very thin on actual details, more testimonials than actual scientifically defendable and repeatable proof), and what is on your website (old tests done in the US on vehicles, that are of an unknown quantity).

We know nothing of this product because you will not tell us anything remotely verifiable scientifically and appropriate to this day and age, using modern Australian delivered EFI vehicles.

Case in point, dyno results that were promised.
---------------------------------
BillS, feel free to comment and contribute to this forum on anything other than products in which it can be shown that you have a conflict of interest. If you want to talk business then the forum is probably NOT the place to do it (in case you havent realised it yet, no-one really appreciates it), take it "offline" and use MM, or email, or phone. No one will complain about a "Please contact me by email/phone/member message" message to answer an enquiry, and simply leave it at that on the forum. This is in line with what other vendors do on this and other forums (google "forum ettiquette"). It is not an unreasonable request.

We do not need or particularly want advertorials, or testimonials in the forum (certainly from a users' point of view of this forum).

my 2 cents worth.....
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Follow Up By: Mr Fawlty - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 10:59

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 10:59
Norm C. Well spoken! Bravo!... I get really really skeptical when the MD of a company gets aggressive, can't spell or can't use grammar. This indicates some sort of tinpot approach to busness & I would never ever buy anthing from anyone who takes this approach.
Yeah I know, pay peanuts get monkeys, but that was incredible.
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Reply By: Member - John R (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 21:15

Tuesday, Apr 18, 2006 at 21:15
"with the average customer relaying that they are travelling up to 100klms further on each tank of fuel".

Would that be one hundred thousand litre-metres?

"The second point this product was arranged to be tested and reported on at Central Qld uni but their dyno collapsed end of story".

Therefore the university has no relevance to this story. How does a dyno collapse?

"Further points are if you dont want to save money so be it, but do not whinge about fuel prices".

Nobody is whinging about fuel prices (on this thread). They are whinging about false advertising claims.

"Second if you want to continue putting 50% more pollution than necessary into OUR atmosphere carry on".

Prove it, with scientific testing.

"Then if you do not want your motor to last longer carry on". (3rd point)

Prove it, with scientific testing.

If you want to continue smelling that rotten egg gas emitted from unleaded fuel wear it". (4th point)

Mine is a diesel. It stinks anyway :-)

"Third point if you want to correct all of this FIT a Fitch. This may well be my last answer except for intellagent questions". (5th point, actually).

So far, all questions have been quite "intellagent"/reasonable Don/Bill. sadly, no factual data has been forthcoming.

"My name my contact details are on our website for anyone who wishes to have a conversation on this product ,and thank you for all your kind words from those who uttered and also thank you to my knockers who know nothing of this product".

Please leave breasts out of this. There are respectable females who regularly read these pages and may take offence at "knockers". The reason they know nothing about the product is that there is no factual data available....

"Kindest regards BILLS "(ps I do feel i have learned something of running a business over the past 30 odd years)

I thought this response was written by "Don from Fitch Catalyst Australia Pty. Ltd. 30 "odd" years. Hmmmmm.

Keepa dancing, Maria.
AnswerID: 167666

Follow Up By: Member - Ian W (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 07:01

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 07:01
Yes,
I believe the "widget" has even less credibility following the post from Don/Bill S or whoever else they may be.

But I'm starting to feel that someone is conspiring against me, so close, so many times, just about get there and then the magical Dyno Test is torn away from in front of my eyes. Sigh!

Life is one continual disappointment.

Ian
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FollowupID: 422931

Reply By: Mr Fawlty - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 11:24

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 11:24
Ok folks, Have just spoken to Choice (again) and the correspondence is on it's way.
Now to me, a low life mechanical engineer with a varied job profile over my last 40 years. I actually enjoy designing and building steam launches most of all but hey In my later years I was engaged by the Goverment in a "Q" capacity... So what I hear you all say... Well I have absolutley, positivley, no doubt, none whatever, that Don & BillS are the same person. It's as clear as the autumn sky...

Bill/Don, whoever you are you have totally destroyed your personal credibility and dragged your product down with you, Ok I'm skeptical that it works, but all you had to do was provide the details of testing as asked, but no you stuffed around, you were all over the place like a mad womans crap... You kept throwing coal on the fire and making outlandish claims and finally fell on your own sword by introducing "Don" to us who obviously has his posts written by BillS...

Would you buy anything from someone who has a record of FRAUD?
AnswerID: 167767

Follow Up By: Mr Fawlty - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 16:47

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 16:47
Ok so now we have BillS playing the role of Bill Sheather & Don Playing the role of the MD but both write in the same style & with the same obvious traits. I admit that I don't know who is doing what to whom & where & when anymore....
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 17:07

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 17:07
Since most of BillS's and Don's threads have been written at night it would be reasonable to assume they were at home.

That being the case then the posts should have seperate IP addresses. Is there any way for David and Michelle to go through their logs and see if this is so?

Under the term of use, isnt it reason to be banned for one person having multiple logons for reason of menace such as what BillS/Don is/are doing? (a "mate" coming in to support you)

A thank you must go to David and Michelle for allowing this thread to continue. As you have obviously noted, we just want straight answers to straight questions. We are just not getting them, and will persist until we do.
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Follow Up By: Mr Fawlty - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 18:12

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 18:12
Good point Gary. I to think that David & Michelle are doing the proper thing in allowing this debate to continue, the thing that matters here is the truth, that is all we seek.
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Follow Up By: Member - Bill S (NSW) - Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 12:26

Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 12:26
NOW MR Fawlty, What do you think I have spoken from day 1 the TRUTH and nothing but the TRUTH so help me GOD//

Regards BILLS
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 12:44

Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 12:44
The truth as in YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH type truth? or WE ARE INVADING IRAQ FOR THE WMDs type truth?
TRUTH???? lol lol lol Truth is different things to different people
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 13:50

Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 13:50
Jeez!! all thats being asked for is a before and after Dyno report that would tell us all the "Truth"

It can't be that hard if the product does as claimed it does then the Dyno would show that up and we would all buy them quick as.

But if the Dyno does not show what is being claimed well then the real truth has been told, that Fitch and its respective distributors are full of $hit.

Fitch continually fails to provide a Dyno report which leaves us with no alternative but to assume the later.

"NOW MR Fawlty, What do you think I have spoken from day 1 the TRUTH and nothing but the TRUTH so help me GOD"
I seem to remember a bloke by the name of Bill Clinton saying something like that before has claimed that he did not have sexual relations with Monica L.

Not much to lean on there Bill S.
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FollowupID: 423301

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 17:35

Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 17:35
...and there would be people here who would quite rightly take exception to your use of God as a part of justifying your marketing pitch. Very poor form.

Simple, BillS, just provide documentry evidence that these things work, by way of dyno results as you agreed to several months ago, and Don agreed to in the above entry. Then we will all go away, and I would put fwd the idea to David and Michelle that this thread be deleted.

As it stands this thread is in the publics' interest, and all that we have done is (repeatedly) ask for the dyno results you promised several months ago. There has been no agro or other reason to have this thread moderated thus far.
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Follow Up By: Member - Bill S (NSW) - Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 18:34

Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 18:34
Once again I will qote as before on this forum. Tests were arranged at Central QLD university,contracts were nearly written all agreed to,then their DYNO broke down and they had no funding to repair. Hence everything was aborted due to exactly as I explained before.
SO I shall attempt to get a test carried out at another uni or such just to prove my point to all scepitcs and believe me there are some about But I have turned many sceptics into believers and will continue to do so,whilever I recieve the appolagies for their sceptism, When I am proved right,even though I fully understand for I was once one of you
.Be patient all will be revealed when the NRMA and AAA get their act together and carry out their tests I for one will accept their findings,as unbeknown to them I allready know what it will be
.I shall now bow out until these tests are revealed,and I dont see anything wrong with this thread as it is healthy debating and further to any further information being bantered around I say thank you aLL for your input.

Regards BILLS
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FollowupID: 423381

Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 19:48

Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 19:48
Would one of those sceptics you "turned" been Roachie? Well as the ever reliable truth talker he is he has stuck to his WORD and not bagged your product but the fact remains a well respected member with meticulous fuel consumption records dating back from way back when has deemed your product to NOT WORK and despite you insisting he fiddle with his fuel adjustments in the back yard which were tuned by DIESAL EXPERTS he used common sense AND RETURNED THE PIECE OF CRAP.
Please explain?????
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Follow Up By: Member - John R (NSW) - Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 20:54

Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 20:54
Why does the test have to be carried out by a university? (delaying tactic?) Surely there is an independent business with a dyno available somewhere in Australia?

I'm interested to know why BillS and his alter-ego need to do the test interstate? Surely the logistics would be easier in NSW? Or do you need to find a suitable dyno that will give you the result you want? (hint, hint).

I can't wait until the NRMA and AAA debunk this myth. I think, however, that we'd have a better chance of getting Mythbusters onto the case before the NRMA/AAA will even bother. They can smell a charlatan a mile away, that's why they show little interest in the "device".

I agree with Davoe (Widgiethingamabobbie) that the subject vehicle must be kept sterile, ie not be allowed anywhere near the Fiitch peoples' tampering little fingies....
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FollowupID: 423424

Follow Up By: Member - Andrew W (SA) - Sunday, May 07, 2006 at 17:15

Sunday, May 07, 2006 at 17:15
I've suggested Adam and Jaime do an expose ... although they are not normally into product reviews.

Ciao for now
Andrew.
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FollowupID: 426785

Reply By: awill4x4 - Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 20:34

Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 20:34
Unfortunately guys, dyno results can easily be fudged. Bill S's previous linking of the infamous Vipac test showed the where a supposed "independant" test results can be called into question by Fiitch (I refuse to give this product an ad link) adopting a "hands on" rather than "hands off" approach.
For a dyno test to have any semblence of independance Fiitch "must not" lay their hands on the vehicle at any time and the vehicle to be tested preferably should be procured from a source entirely independant of Fiitch. Any fitting work of the Fiitch product must be done by the testing station themselves with no further adjustments to the vehicle at all and this includes playing with fuel pumps as was requested of Roachie.
Regards Andrew.
AnswerID: 168154

Follow Up By: Member - Ian W (NSW) - Friday, Apr 21, 2006 at 17:41

Friday, Apr 21, 2006 at 17:41
Guys,
On post No:30109 dated 28/1/06 Bill S claimed dyno tests were being carried out at the RTA Botany, he finished off by telling us all th watch the forum where all will be revealed.

I'm watching, watching, watching!

On post 29846, 18/1/06 Bill stated that the NRMA through the AAA was arranging "product tsets", whatever that is. He then went on to state that a member had TWO units to do a controlled test and report. Bill S finished off with the statement "Sure he will post results in a mont or two".

Right! What I want to know is which one of you bastards is holding out on us by not posting the results of this controlled test.

Now this bit is for Roachy.

Roachie old mate you have been dudded!
You told us that Bill S refunded your money for the Futch you returned. If you have a look at Bill's post No:28681 dated 7/12/05 you will see where Bill tells us that the product refund is 120%. Yes it appears you have been ripped off to the tune of 20% Roachy. Question? Are you going take this lying down (He, He)

Bill S, Ithink you have been a naughty boy, sent Roachy the balance of his refund if you expect to have any cred on this forum

Ian
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FollowupID: 423667

Reply By: Member - John R (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 21:00

Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 21:00
Meesterrr Fawlty posted this link in another thread Tony's Guide to Fuel Saving Gadgets
I think it clearly answers all BillS claims about the Futch.

Tally Ho!

AnswerID: 169188

Follow Up By: Member - John R (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 21:12

Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 21:12
Woops!! i forgot to add that it also makes interesting reading for those who use Hiclones, CEM, fuel and oil additives.

Basically, he debunks them all.

This guy rocks!
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FollowupID: 424535

Reply By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 21:41

Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 21:41
From www.fuelsaving.info/debunk.htm

Sorry about the loooong read

Actual page link: www.fuelsaving.info/catalysts.htm

-------------------------------------

Fuel "catalysts"

Devices of this type include: Broquet, Fitch Fuel Catalyst, Prozone, Fuelstar, Fuelcat, Enviromax Plus

A vast array of usually tin-based products, either dropped in the tank or fitted in the fuel line, claim to improve the fuel quality and so improve power and economy.

The first point to note is that tin is not generally regarded as an efficient catalyst for hydrocarbons. The "catalytic cracking" systems in oil refineries often cited by makers of these devices in fact use Zeolites, composed mostly of aluminium and silicon. The catalytic converters in vehicle exhausts use platinum, rhodium and palladium. Tin is not a significant component in either of these catalysts.

A second general point is that claims to have improved Russian fuel in the Second World War do not mean that the device will do anything to modern fuel. Refinery technology has moved on enormously in the past sixty years; modern petrol and diesel fuel is a carefully-engineered product almost ideally matched to the requirements of the engines it is used in.

Thirdly, the makers of these "catalytic" devices state with confidence that they change the properties of the fuel in some way, for example converting long-chain molecules to short-chain ones. Such changes could easily be detected using a technique such as mass spectroscopy. It therefore seems strange that the makers do not generally have any such measurements to show that the device actually works in the way they claim.

The claims for these "fuel catalysts" are wide-ranging and varied, but I will try and debunk some of the more common ones here.

A frequent claim is that it allows use of unleaded petrol in "leaded" engines, because the tin coats the valve seats and so prevents wear. This may perhaps be true, but the quantity seems far too low. These devices often quote a 200 000 mile life. In that time a car would use leaded fuel containing around five kilograms of lead. These devices do not weigh even a tenth of that, so you have to wonder if there is enough there to protect the engine. Also beware of testimonials along the lines of "I ran my leaded-only car on unleaded for five years with (insert name of device) fitted and there was no damage". Firstly, some engines had hardened seats anyway and only needed the lead to prevent knock. Secondly, a gently-driven car is unlikely to suffer significant valve seat wear on unleaded, especially if it has already built up many years' coating. (This is not a recommendation to put unleaded in your cherished classic, though!)

Another similar claim is that the device increases the octane rating of the fuel and so prevents knock, again allowing use of unleaded in "leaded" vehicles. This might perhaps be possible, but you would have to wonder why refineries have invested billions of pounds in Zeolite technology instead, if tin is so effective. Once more testimonials of many years' trouble-free running should be treated with suspicion. Many engines designed for 97RON leaded wouldn't knock on 95RON unleaded anyway, due to their design. Others might knock under some conditions but since "classic" cars tend to be driven fairly gently it would never be a problem.

There is also some anecdotal evidence that these devices do not provide as much protection against valve-seat recession as the makers would claim.

Turning away from "leaded" engines, these devices also claim a "better" burn in some way on all engines. The same comments apply here as to magnet systems:

A common claim is that it makes the fuel burn faster. Full details of the effect of burn rate on fuel consumption can be found on the turbulence page, but basically:

* Faster burning does not, even in theory, improve fuel economy significantly on modern engines (the burn rate is pretty close to optimum anyway)
* If the fuel really does burn faster, the ignition must be retarded to suit

Another claim is that the fuel in some way burns "better" or "more completely". But only about one or two percent of the injected fuel escapes unburnt from the engine (because it was trapped in the head gasket crevice, for example). The other 99% is totally broken down into smaller molecules, and then combined with oxygen to form water, carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide. Essentially all the chemical energy in the fuel is released as heat. How can the burning be any "better" than this?

The mechanism by which catalytic devices often claim to work is by converting long-chain fuel molecules to short-chain ones. It is of course true that petrol and diesel consist of many different molecules, ranging from large ones such as octane (C8H18) to small ones such as butane (C4H10). Longer molecules can in theory be broken down into shorter ones, though this process normally requires heat and pressure, as well as the presence of a catalyst. But even if the fuel "saving" device does break the molecules down, this does not imply improved fuel consumption or emissions.

Firstly, the precise blend of components of modern petrol (and indeed diesel) is quite carefully "tuned" to match the requirements of the engine. This even involves selling different petrol in summer and winter to compensate for differing temperatures! The proportion of the fuel that evaporates at different temperatures (the "boiling curve") is determined by the blend of high boiling point (long-chain) components and low boiling point (short-chain) components. If the proportions are altered, then the boiling characteristics of the fuel will change. The likely effects are either poor cold starting or poor hot starting, with increased emissions in each case.

Secondly, short-chain molecules do not generally produce significantly more energy when burnt. The calorific values of most hydrocarbon fuels are around 44 - 46 MJ/kg, with smaller molecules producing only slightly more energy than larger ones. Claims that smaller molecules burn "better", "more completely", or "more energetically" are not supported by experimental data (consider, for example, the fuel economy of LPG vehicles).

Some such products also claim a cleaning effect.

Especially surprising is the fact that most makers of fuel "catalysts" claim their products are equally suited to petrol and diesel engines. Petrol and diesel are quite different; the combustion processes in petrol and diesel engines are quite different; and the qualities that make a "good" petrol are not the same (indeed in some cases are exactly opposite to) the qualities that make a "good" diesel. Even if we assume that a catalyst to produce "better" petrol could be devised, and also a catalyst to produce "better" diesel, for these to be one and the same thing seems highly implausible to me.

Some commentators claim that the various catalysts work very well in theory, but the evil oil companies specifically add products to their fuel to "disable" them. Even if true (which would be easy enough to prove by carrying out scientific tests on the product using an alternative fuel), you have to ask why these catalytic products are not simply sold in other countries where the fuel blend is different.

In terms of specific products, the Broquet device was tested in 1994 by the UK consumer group Which?. They ran three different cars at three different test speeds on a rolling road - as standard, with the Broquet fitted, and with it removed again. (This is not quite as satisfactory as "proper" cycle-based rolling road tests, but far better than uncontrolled on-road measurements.) The results were as follows:

Citroen AX 1.1
Speed (mph) MPG std MPG with Broquet MPG back to std
30 69 70 71
50 54 56 56
70 40 40 41

Rover 620i
Speed (mph) MPG std MPG with Broquet MPG back to std
30 49 52 53
50 41 42 43
70 32 33 33

Mitsubishi Galant 1.8
Speed (mph) MPG std MPG with Broquet MPG back to std
30 55 57 58
50 46 46 47
70 35 35 34

It can be seen that the improvements after fitting the Broquet are extremely small, and in most cases the benefit remains after the device has been removed. Which? believed that this was because the cars were relatively new and still running-in - economy is therefore improving as the engine friction reduces. If the improvement were really due to the Broquet, the economy should have returned to "baseline" after it was removed.

Broquet's response to this was that the tests were "unrepresentative" as they had used "modern petrol-engined cars". But remember that these cars were built in 1993, and so today would be classed as 11 years old - yet nowhere on Broquet's web site does it state that small (or zero) economy gain would be expected on post-1992 vehicles.

I would like to post the whole Which? article here, but cannot as it is copyright.

(Note to US readers: these are imperial gallons, so the MPG is about 20% better than US MPG.)

Interestingly, certain makers of both catalyst and magnet-based fuel "saving" devices claim that they were used by the RAF during World War 2. Amazing that the British armed forces should have found not one, but two, miraculous fuel-saving devices; even more amazing that they have apparently now "lost" both of them. (Since getting fuel to the front line is a major logistical problem, the armed forces are more interested in fuel consumption than you might think.) A sceptic might wonder how much truth there is in either claim.

AnswerID: 169199

Reply By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Saturday, Apr 29, 2006 at 03:47

Saturday, Apr 29, 2006 at 03:47
You're very quiet, BillS/Don Chapman

As above in the article, a mass spectrometer result of the before/after would also seem to be in order to debunk the debunkers, I would think, to establish whether there is any alteraton of the hydrocarbon lengths. (~$100-200 for the test worst case, according to an industrial chemist friend of mine).

Come clean. If the all the tests are done and prove the product to be ineffective according to all SCIENTIFIC analysis, you would have reason to sue the US manufacturers ($$$$$+++), reducing your exposure to any litigation in Australia by refering it to them (several successful legal precedents, faulty heart pacemakers, faulty hip replacments, Apple Ipod batteries, etc).

AnswerID: 169616

Follow Up By: Member - Ian W (NSW) - Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 12:14

Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 12:14
I don't think Bill S etc: are particuarly worried about any litigation. Their offered warranty together with the legal disclaimer seems to stitch everything up pretty tight. I mean when they tell you that there is no warranty of merchantability or fitness for a particular purpose, then I think you know all that needs to be known about the product.

I would still like to know if Roachie had his purchase price only refunded or if he actually received a 120% refund as stated bu Bill S on this forum and stated in the Fitch "Warranty Condition".

Ian
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FollowupID: 425147

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Sunday, May 07, 2006 at 17:13

Sunday, May 07, 2006 at 17:13
Ian,
Didn't know about the 120% set-up....it's news to me. I didn't even get (or ask for) the postage it cost me to return it. Just happy to have my dough back in the bank!! hahaha
Cheers

Roachie
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FollowupID: 426784

Follow Up By: Don from Fitch Fuel Catalyst Australia Pty Ltd - Sunday, May 07, 2006 at 19:10

Sunday, May 07, 2006 at 19:10
HI Roachy,Mate the 120% was not introduced when we arranged your test,that is why it was not mentioned.And by the way I did not charge you postage either or for barbs. Thank you for the return it is now operating fine on a Landcruiser diesel.
For your info an agent of mine phoned friday to inform me that a diesel engine he has running his sandblasting compressor used ten litres less fuel after fitting fitch,for equal hours running
.So you see some people believe what they experiance and enjoy their savings,they use commonsence, not scientific tests to evaluate their savings.By the way had the 120% deal been in when we did the deal I most certainly would have honered it as I am sure you are aware.Also to whomever may be concerned the business using the compressor is Mobile Fabrications Mick 0262991403 situated inQueenbyan NSW

Regards BILLS
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FollowupID: 426800

Follow Up By: Member - Ian W (NSW) - Sunday, May 07, 2006 at 20:21

Sunday, May 07, 2006 at 20:21
Roachie Old Mate,
Have a look at the Futch site and check out the warranty - it states 120% refund, full stop. This is, once again I state, listed as a warranty entitlement, there is no qualifications as to date, time, season or the colour of your undies.
Bill S. owes the balance of 20%, full stop. The fact that the guy has not followed through with his own written commitment tells everyone on this forum something, I leave it to all to calculate what that may be.
To add insult to injury he then tries to tell all what a great fellow he is because he did not charge you for postage, Christ!
If postage is that bloody critical to you Bill S. let me know how much it is and I'll send you money myself!

Bill S./Don or whever you are,
For God's sake sort out your name and decide for once and for all who the bloody hell you are. Have you absolutly no idea what this does to your credibility?

Now once again Bill, you start throwing handfulls of dust in the air to obfuscate You assert that someone using a sandblaster compressor is now using 10 litres less fuel after fitting a Futch. So bloody what? 10litres less after what? Running for I hour, 10 hours, 100 hours or was it ten thousand bloody hours.
Once again Bill you make these claims that insinuate benefits accrue to the users of your products but the claims are what are called in the sales field as "open ended". For you Bill that means that they can't be clarified or pinned down or checked out. In the good old US of A, (from where your dodgy product emanates Bill), this is called "blowing smoke", for us less sophisticated aussies ,it's called "bull bleep ting". Oh yes, the guy happens to be one of your "agents", wow!, that explains all, I will really take note of that and give it a bleep load of credibility because he is one of your agents.

Now Billy old boy you have finally blown me out of my chair onto the floor with your closing comment and with your permission, (and without out it), I will quote you.
Quote "So you see some people believe what they experience and enjoy their savings, they use commonsence,(sic) not scientific tests to evaluate their savings." End quote.
Well Bill, if I followed your sort of reasoning I would come up with the following.

If the plural of mouse is mice, then obviously the plural of house must be hice. I know it must be so Bill because I used commonsense.

Bill, will you not leave it alone? You are on a hiding to nothing, surely you must have gauged the temper of opinion on this forum from any one of the many, far too many posts concerning futch.

Ian
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FollowupID: 426817

Follow Up By: Member - Andrew W (VIC) - Sunday, May 07, 2006 at 21:12

Sunday, May 07, 2006 at 21:12
Probably by 'accident' , Bill/Don or whoever it currently is, accidentally posted the Fax Number of the illustrious Mick. His actual phone number, for those that wish to ring him to confirm the accurate and detailed figures quoted by the futch people is 02 6297 9801
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FollowupID: 426833

Reply By: Member - John R (NSW) - Friday, May 05, 2006 at 06:15

Friday, May 05, 2006 at 06:15
Back to the top.

Has any more information come to light as to whether this thing works?
AnswerID: 170831

Follow Up By: Member - Ian W (NSW) - Saturday, May 06, 2006 at 16:55

Saturday, May 06, 2006 at 16:55
Absolutely not John.

You see there has never been any information to that effect in the first place, oh there are heaps of claims and assertions from dodgy promoters, there are a myriad of testimonials from so called "satisfied clients", but thats all. Thats all they are claims, assertions, opinions (and we all know how many of them there are on any given subject), BUT NO EVIDENCE.

Cold hard independant testing from a truly independant body is, in my opinion only the commencement of the process of assmbling evidence of any credibility.

To date we have seen nothing! Why? The product does not do what the promoter says it will.

Ian W
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FollowupID: 426616

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