DieselGas. First impressions

Submitted: Monday, Apr 10, 2006 at 21:00
ThreadID: 32763 Views:3994 Replies:11 FollowUps:19
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I have no association with DieselGas, and am unaware of any conflict of interest. I know which is the pointy end of a screwdriver, but no mechanic. My observations are purely unscientific and are impressions only, I may be imagining things that are there or not for other reasons.

Had the brother-in-law take the Nissan 4.2TD Cab Chassis to Melb last Wednesday. The specifications for the sales people were:

1. Tank front centre of tray
2. Chassis Mounted
3. 50l usable gas or as near as you can fit

Gas system to be fitted Thurs and put on Dyno Fri morning. Don't think this is how it went. Office rang Thurs late and gave me final price inclusive of $250 of exhaust work.

Lunch Friday vehicle not ready, but should be OK 5.30. B_I_L had to wait for it to come off dyno after 6pm.

Rang me when he got home and said, tank not where you asked for it, it is under tray across back and attached to tray. Apparently 50l useable gas. Cannot see where there is any modification to exhaust.

Well I fumed all weekend and headed for Melbourne Sun night to sort things out.

Within 5 min of inspecting vehicle all my fears dissolved. The tank was not visible from rear, guage was easy to read, well inside departure angle and overall a neat job. It would not have worked as well where I wanted it. On reading receipt, the only instructions given to installation staff had been 50 useable litres, and receipt did not include exhaust work.

Called in at dealership on way home, and they immediately rectified my overpayment with a cheque.

End result is, more than happy with the installation.

Now the initial impressions:

1. First thing to notice is starting. The TD was not hard to start before, but usually turned over about 4 - 6 cylinders before it fired. Now it fires on 1st cylinder. This is surprising as gas is only injected under load and not at idle. Maybe something to do with carbon deposits removed from cyclinder. Maybe it had something to do with being dyno tuned. Whatever, it is noticeable.

2. The cabin is noticeably quieter. I thought it must have been me. You could hear the radio clearly. The usual tickle, tickle, rattle noise you associate with diesels is gone. Just audible sometimes at idle. You cannot hear the turbo spool up; the air rush whistle is missing. Don't know what the technical reasons are for this, but it is too dramatic to be imagination. The gas port is in the pipe between the air cleaner and turbo intake. Perhaps the gas being cold kills the turbo whistle. This is the only intrusion on motor other than a couple of sensors. One thing the installer mentioned was that the fuel mix at cylinder is 100ºc colder than straight diesel. Perhaps it is like driving permanently on a clean cold morning and that quiets the diesel noises.

3. The dyno tuner tells me the power at rear wheels, on gas, goes from 84kw to 103kw. I would have no dispute with that figure on feel. It is a very smooth power too.

4. Torque is noticeably lower. Comes in under 1500rpm, originally close to 2000rpm.

5. Don't know about fuel consumption as yet, and will not be doing a scientific analysis. Have some rough figures from the last 4 fills I will work out when I get around to it. Usually the TD uses 1/4 main tank on trip from Melb, and when I got home this time was just short of the 1/4. I did however give it some stick coming home through the Black Spur (because I could). It may be some time before I can make any difinitive judgement, although if it is 20% as claimed, it should stand out.

6. Dash control consists of 1 small unobtrusive switch with 4 green bars for full that graduate off, until last green turns orange for low. You can either have the gas on or off, that's it.

Overall very happy at this stage. Feels weird; heaps more grunt with less overall noise. Doesn't seem to make sense.
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Reply By: Trevor R (QLD) - Monday, Apr 10, 2006 at 21:15

Monday, Apr 10, 2006 at 21:15
PK,

Glad it is working out practically after initial uncertainty.
Can I assertain from your figures that you had 84 kw at the rear wheels before they started and now have 103kw? if that is true did you have any work done to the car previously to improve performance ?
My other Question is were you able to find out if worked 4.2's would benefit by the same % increase by doing the same as you have?
Thanks for any forthcoming answers.

Best regards Trevor.
AnswerID: 166262

Follow Up By: PK Eildon (VIC) - Monday, Apr 10, 2006 at 21:21

Monday, Apr 10, 2006 at 21:21
I sent you an email earlier.

The 84kw - 103kw was what the dyno tuner told me when I was there today. Apparently he remembered it. I queried him on what 'at the wheels' meant and he said there is about 20% loss from motor through the transmission. The only mod I have is 3" bent mandrel exhaust (I think that is how you say it).
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Reply By: Member - John - Monday, Apr 10, 2006 at 21:47

Monday, Apr 10, 2006 at 21:47
PK, very interested in who you had the work done with, would like to pay them a visit and have a look at what they do. I have a GU Ute also, but with 3" mandrel exhaust, turbo mods by MTQ and I/C, not factory. Would be interesting to see what sort of power upgrade they think I may get. According to MTQ in Towoomba, I have 120kw at rear wheels and that was before the I/C was fitted. Do you mind giving a rough price for your mods? Thanks in advance. John
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AnswerID: 166284

Follow Up By: PK Eildon (VIC) - Monday, Apr 10, 2006 at 22:07

Monday, Apr 10, 2006 at 22:07
Sounds like you maybe a little far away.

LPGas1 in Lilydale (Melbourne) did the job. I think the bloke to talk to is Jed Von HESSE on 03 9735 1600

The fitup for me was 3.5k + 10% for Peter
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Reply By: Member - John - Monday, Apr 10, 2006 at 22:14

Monday, Apr 10, 2006 at 22:14
PK, thanks for that, not too far I am in Melbourne, drove to Towwomba for a tune up, lol. I will give them a ring tomorrow. Thanks once again. John
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Reply By: Tim HJ61 (WA) - Monday, Apr 10, 2006 at 23:53

Monday, Apr 10, 2006 at 23:53
Well done for giving something newish and interesting a go.

Tim
AnswerID: 166323

Follow Up By: PK Eildon (VIC) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 11:08

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 11:08
Maybe more money than sense (LOL) Time will tell. I did a fair bit of research and there appears to be more obvious reasons why you get gains as opposed to lining up molecules, or smaller droplets, etc.
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Reply By: Dunedigger - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 07:10

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 07:10
Hi,

I have just had my 79 series Landcruser Cab / Chassis done. Only one tank used yet, but have noticed a nice improvement in drivability. Throtle response has changed and now drives like a car. There has been an improvement in consumption )less diesel used ) . It ios much easier to sit on the speed limit and then some !

I beleve this is the first 79 electronic that has been done in Australia, they have had to work out the mapping of the computer by trial and error. I will get the LGP computer remapped as the ratio of diesel to gas is a bit low. I will then get it dynoed.

If anybody else has one done on a 79, I would be interested in hearing from you
AnswerID: 166348

Follow Up By: PK Eildon (VIC) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 09:31

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 09:31
Must admit the driveability and the move toward car responsiveness is the thing I noticed the most, possibly because I hadn't expected that result.
My right shin muscle aches from keeping it off the accelerator (LOL) well maybe not that good.
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Reply By: sjp - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 07:18

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 07:18
hi getting the 105 series n/a toyota done tomorrow,decided aginst a turbo for this motor because of mechanics advice,gas is cheaper by over $1000 anyway,i was cautious about reading your post in case of bad news but thankfully non yet, will keep anybody interested in the results
AnswerID: 166350

Follow Up By: PK Eildon (VIC) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 09:34

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 09:34
I haven't discovered a down side (other than initial cost) as yet, though I assume there may be something down the track.
Certainly happy to have it at this stage.
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Follow Up By: Zapper - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 12:21

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 12:21
Hi SJP

I have the same vehicle, considering the conversion, can you let me know how yours goes?

Thanks
Sam
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Follow Up By: tojo - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 17:49

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 17:49
I,m the same as zapper, would like to hear how the na 105 goes .
Thinking this might be better than turboing as well but didnt want to be the guinea pig . scott
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Follow Up By: sjp - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 21:14

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 21:14
thanks guys ,i be the monkey with his hand up , seriously though i wanted to do something about improving this vehicle's power without comprising it s reliability(hopefully)and if the system breaks down the its back to normal by switching it off,a couple off questions i'll be asking though is what are the chances of excess gas being pump through and how safe in case of an accident with regards to the gas ,talk tomorrow
simon
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Follow Up By: sjp - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 21:23

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 21:23
PK person i talked to regards d/gas who had it done to his 4.2 td nissan,had also done the power upgrade at motsons beforehand was nearly getting 150 kw at the wheels on the dyno ,most impressed.
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Follow Up By: PK Eildon (VIC) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 21:54

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 21:54
Simon

I am probably not expert enough to give a definitive answer on the safety questions (probably best to ask an installer), but my understanding is the system is controlled by a computer chip with sensors and if anything is wrong the shutdown valve activates. As far as accident I assume no more or less a risk than any other gas powered vehicle, although with diesel gas the tank is a lot smaller.

My motivation for getting system was more range, economy and lower torque. The power is a bonus. I think I will be able to get into enough trouble with 104kw :))
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Follow Up By: PK Eildon (VIC) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 22:35

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 22:35
sjp

I assume yours will be ready in a couple of days. I would be interested in how you go. Let us know will you.
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Follow Up By: sjp - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 22:10

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 22:10
well is on ,still early days as to total the benefits,but heres the story so far
had the system fitted in a day ,drove to bris early morn 300 or so klm and back homeby 8.30 that nite
left with fulltanks ,and just the driver ,average speed 90-100 klm/hr, and the usual city driving,fuel usage51 lts for 370 klm
return trip with diesel gas ,with driver and passenger ,200 kg load(shopping)plus gas setup,speed ave 100 to 110/115
fuel usage diesel 44 lts ,gas 9.5 lts
in $ terms the cost of fuel was almost excatly the same
in preformance the car is certainly easier to drive,downhill there is more runon,infact instead of just lifting your foot of the pedal to slow down ,you have to start braking ,uphill ,well i didnt have to change from 5 th all the way home after i left the city(100 klm zones)
the advantages at this early stage
totally confused service station attendents ,they cant workout you buying diesel and gas for the same car.today the servo bloke was looking for the person who had filled up diesel at pump 4 ,while i was topping up gas at pump 1(honest john ,thats me)
more power
i'am sure there are fuel advatages,not sure how much at this stage
more responsive
all the eco hype and the website stuff
the disadvantages at this stage
my wallet
big cloud of black smoke at 2500/3000 revs( just take an oil change and a couple of tankfuls of juice through the system to fix that hopefully)
hey wheres my 11.5 lts/100 klm ????/

so thats it ,my forefinger worn out and internet time gone
thanks sjp
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Follow Up By: PK Eildon (VIC) - Friday, Apr 14, 2006 at 15:38

Friday, Apr 14, 2006 at 15:38
Simon

Yeah. I have already had the same problem at 1st fill up. Attendant was scratching his head until I explained.
It may be interesting re fuel usage after 3 months or so. The problem with the extra power is you tend to want to use it, and that may afftect overall fuel. Probably the block of wood under accelerator is still appropriate.
Early days yet.

PK
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Reply By: Leroy - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 08:09

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 08:09
Just wondering what happens if you run out of gas? I gather you run on diesel but I assume there is a lack of performace because you are now running leaner?

Leroy
AnswerID: 166358

Follow Up By: PK Eildon (VIC) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 09:37

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 09:37
You just lose the performance gains, which return when gas is reapplied. There is no modification to the motor as such.
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FollowupID: 421265

Follow Up By: Jason M P - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 13:24

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 13:24
Hi Leroy.. All gas does is makes or helps the burning rate of diesel close to 100% which it increase powerput..Diesel alone only burns around 80% and 20% is wasted. It something like having nitro fitted in petrol drag/race cars...
cheers.
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Follow Up By: Leroy - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 13:33

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 13:33
ah no worries, thanks guys.

Leory
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Reply By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 21:36

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 21:36
Fascinating debate on another thread on the benefits or otherwise of Fitch.
I wonder why when this sort of info is available on a product most of us can understand.

Good info PK. Keep it coming.

I'll need a bit more time to digest this sort of stuff as I have a new common rail diesel, and I'm not certain of the effects and risks with it. Looks like a great product though, from what I have read over the past couple of months.
AnswerID: 166546

Follow Up By: PK Eildon (VIC) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 22:18

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 22:18
Norm

Don't quote me but I think the system started in SA and moved into Qld (Who said they were slow :) ) & NSW and has only recently arrived in Vic. There is slowly more information becoming available. I know when I started looking at it there was little available except the sales pitch, but a bit of digging helped. As a general rule the doers (installers) are less likely to gild the lily, but are harder to find.

My understanding is it suits any diesel; it just aids a full burn without altering the basic operation of the motor. Might be just another sales pitch, but I can understand how that is possibly true, unless you have a diesel that can fully combust the fuel in the cylinders.

John who posted earlier was going to check things out with the factory here in Melb and may be able to delve into any questions you need answered.
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FollowupID: 421463

Reply By: Member - Gomax (VIC) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 08:40

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 08:40
Have got a scan of the 4wd Monthly review of a Troopy install if any one wants a copy.

link text
AnswerID: 166606

Follow Up By: PK Eildon (VIC) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 09:04

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 09:04
What was there overall assessment ??
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FollowupID: 421524

Reply By: Member - Gomax (VIC) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 09:55

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 09:55
Intend to get this fitted next month, thanks for your input.

Quote from last para of article (any errors due to OCR quirks)

"The drive was incredibly easy - to the point I found myself
backing off the accelerator to maintain legal speeds instead of
hammering the pedal down flat. 1 did play with the on-off switch a
few times while driving and could easily feel the difference in power
when changing.
I can't really imagine I'll ever be turning it off again - except to
show it off to all my mates!
With phenomenal improvements in fuel consumption (money in
my pocket) combined with huge performance increases, I'm not just
giggling, I'm bloody falling over myself in fits of hysterical laughter.
You think I'm impressed with this kit, hey? My oath I am!
Be warned though, once you've triedgas, there's no going back."

Article is 3m download via text link
AnswerID: 166622

Follow Up By: PK Eildon (VIC) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 10:14

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 10:14
Good One.

Wonder where they got 'phenominal improvements in fuel consumption' from. Whether they did a technical analysis or just read the publicity blurb.

Got to agree with the rest of it.

Let me know your impressions if you get it done.
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FollowupID: 421528

Reply By: Member - Gomax (VIC) - Friday, May 05, 2006 at 15:59

Friday, May 05, 2006 at 15:59
Lashed out yesterday and did the deed.
Fitted by Mark @ 4wd Connections in Eltham. LPGas1 quoted 4 week wait for fitting!

Only done 200km to return home, but what a difference!
Smooth linear power......

Gonna be a problem achieving any economy gains :)
AnswerID: 170964

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