Worthless Land Rover Warranty

Submitted: Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 20:45
ThreadID: 32840 Views:2818 Replies:18 FollowUps:24
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Just a quick word of warning to all drivers of Discovery TD5 Series II. I recently had the misfortune of breaking a rear diff and subsequently damaging the transmission of my 2 year old, 60,000k and still under warranty Discovery. Land Rover refused to cover it under warranty because I had "spun the wheels" which is "not a manufacturing defect" and is therefore "driver abuse". I was towing a Kimberley Kamper at the time. Moral of the story...if you take your Land Rover off road and it breaks, you are on your own. The staggering thing is this car is Discovery #4 for me, and the dealer, Melbourne's so called 'best' had a care factor of zero. So I amd $5,000 worse off, still with a car "under warranty". You have been warned!!
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Reply By: Steve - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 20:48

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 20:48
why is everyone so shy about naming these cowboys?

You're not making any false allegations.
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Follow Up By: Steve - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:23

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:23
I'm sure they're on safe ground legally but for what it's worth, my experience in retail showed repeatedly that the ones who, either made a stink of it or pursued it as far and hard as they could, won out. If you accept it you'll get nothing. For some of us it's against our nature to make a nuisance of ourselves but it's often the only way.

Good luck anyway, Patrick.
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Reply By: PatrickW - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 20:51

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 20:51
Not Shy at all actually, Melbourne City Land Rover/ULR; and Land Rover Australia in Sydney.Happy to publish names, phone numbers, the lot, if it would do any good!
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Follow Up By: Willem - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:02

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:02
I would suggest that you must always think very casrefully before publishing a gripe about a business on a public forum. And naming this business.

You might end up a lot worse off than you are now.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:08

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:08
Not if he sticks to facts..
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Follow Up By: David from David and Justine Olsen's 4WD Tag-Along - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:09

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:09
I am sure there are more qualified than I, but from my journalism training, I offer the following-

You don't have to name them to face a libel case. If they can be identified by the description you give, and they can prove the claim is defaming and untrue then you can be sued.

If it is the truth, and just the truth then you would be safe naming them, tho the owner of this forum may not be happy for you to do so, as he can also be sued, and he is unable to determine the facts.

That is my understanding.

Dave O
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Follow Up By: PatrickW - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:11

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:11
I take your point Willem, but at the same time if everyone all the time just lies down and gives in these things will go on and on. I havent said anything that Land Rover and the dealer haven't given me IN WRITING!!!
So I feel I am on safe ground.
Thanks for your concern.
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Follow Up By: Big Kidz (Andrew & Jen) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 22:48

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 22:48
I do find it hard to believe that they would say this in writing: "a care factor of zero". If they did put that in writing it might help your case!
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Reply By: roofscooter2 - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 20:54

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 20:54
Patrick it may be time to go to Consumer affairs for what it is worth.Bob.
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Follow Up By: PatrickW - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 20:57

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 20:57
Thanks Bob, I have the consumer affairs paperwork at hand. Mustering the energy to fill it in and start that fight. I was without the car for 6 weeks!
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Reply By: Feral - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 20:55

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 20:55
Sorry to hear of your misfortune Patrick.
Although, this type of breakage and its consequences would not be limited to just Land Rover. I doubt any vehicle manufacturer would be reluctant to put their hand up at this stage.
Why don't you take it further and go to Head Office with your complaint. No doubt you will have to pay upfront to get the Disco back on the road but tell them you are going to take it further. You must notify your service agent and Head Office thats your intent.

Cheers,
Lyndon.
Immaculate Discovery Td5.

AnswerID: 166778

Follow Up By: PatrickW - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:01

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:01
Lyndon, I've been on the phone and email to Land Rover both here and in the UK and got no-where. The thing is when you talk to someone at 'Land Rover Australia' it's actually the Ford Motor Company you're dealing with. Not an ounce of Land Roverness there, I can assure you. Hope your TD5 stays healthy! Mine always had been up to now.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:11

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:11
I wont tell u that a genuine bare head for a TD5 costs $11,000 then (or did couple of yrs back)

Go to a Landrover club meeting and let them know.

But again, Im shocked anyone believes the word "WARRANTY" anymore Nissan, Toyota, LR, Mitz, Ford, Maz, etc. they are all the same.

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Reply By: David from David and Justine Olsen's 4WD Tag-Along - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:11

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:11
How do they know or how can they establish that you spun the wheels?
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Follow Up By: PatrickW - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:19

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:19
By looking at the tyres, and by the fact that their diagnostic computer indicated that the traction control HADN't failed. We had been four wheel driving. Given. But a Nissan X-trail passed us, if you get the idea!! My point would be that regardless the car is under warranty, serviced always by the dealer, and on schedule, and it was being used for just the sort of thing the manufacturer promotes it for. And the fact that this is my 4th Land Rover. A bit of loyalty and respect.
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Follow Up By: David from David and Justine Olsen's 4WD Tag-Along - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:26

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:26
They must be kidding.

A spinning wheel has less load on the axle than the traction control except in exceptional circumstances. Plus if the traction control hadn't failed, how was it possible to spin a wheel with enough power to damage the dif?

Absolutely nuts!!!

Dave O
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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 23:03

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 23:03
So they're saying the vehicle is only designed to drive in situations where the wheels won't spin ????? And that would be dry bitumen ???

Mike
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 21:15

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 21:15
Come on Mike, its only a Landy, offroad? :o
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:11

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:11
I would ask for proof and evidence that you were spinning the wheels, or were you.

More info, were you stuck, adn had the boot into it? Where were you, how did it happen..
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Follow Up By: Feral - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:18

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:18
Truckster,
Sounds like to me that Patricks a pretty smart fella and would have already covered the bases. Its infotunate that LR isn't playing ball at the moment.
I would imagine it would have been very hard to break one diff when it is constant all wheel drive.

Cheers,
Lyndon.
Immaculate Discovery Td5.
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Reply By: PatrickW - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:24

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:24
Truckster and Lyndon, it's very intersting that the new Discovery has, according to the dealer, a 'much stonger rear diff'.It snapped as I drove in high-range 4wd terrain.I dont expect that they will ever do anything about my situation, I've tried every avenue. If they do, this forum will be the first to know. I'm still a LR enthuisiast! (I know, I'm crazy!)
AnswerID: 166788

Follow Up By: Redback - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 07:33

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 07:33
No consulation now but i'd suggest you put a locker in the rear, it's piece of mind in my opinion.

I have a Maxidrive and axles in my TD5, a Detroit Tru-Trac will be in the front soon, they are recommended for constant 4WDs.

Baz.
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Reply By: garrycol - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:25

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:25
The TD2 has traction control - so in theory the only way you can spin the tyres is if grip is the same all wheels ie on bitumin - offroad again in theory not possible to spin wheels - you need to follow this up
AnswerID: 166789

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:28

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:28
I agree - if the computer says traction control didnt fail, how can your wheels have spun?

something dont add up.
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Reply By: kesh - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:29

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:29
Patrick. Please tell us "what broke". For 5 grand it would have to be massive?
"spun the wheels" ? So who on occassion doesn't?
I reckon they must be having them selves on?
The Disco is one of the most capable "off road, out of the box" vehicles produced, I would be taking this much further than that?
kesh
AnswerID: 166790

Follow Up By: PatrickW - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:39

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:39
Kesh, because the pin in the rear diff snapped, I only had 2wd from that point on. In trying to get to somewhere where I could call 'Land Rover Assist', damage was done to the auto transmission, they said because of the extra load by it at that point only having front wheel drive. So eventually a new diff and a totally re-built transmission had to be fitted. $5,000 was doing it 'on the cheap'. They quoted me $11,000 to 'bring it back to manufacturers specification' with factory parts. I used re-conditioned parts, fitted by the dealer.I know it sounds like an unbelievable story, but sadly, it's the truth.
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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 23:05

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 23:05
So the vehicle is designed to never be used in 2WD - I'm glad my Pajero is designed to work in 2WD.

Mike
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 13:25

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 13:25
Burn it. buy something else.
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Reply By: Member - Paul P (Bris) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:42

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:42
Greetings

It has been stated in the media that Australia's vehicle " warranties " really have little real warranty attached. As many have diiscovered vehicle owners are really at the mercy of the warranting dealer and the relevant vehicle manufacturer.

Much warranty appears to be subject to the "goodwill" of somebody.

I recently purchased a new microwave. Upon opening the package it was discovered the unit was damaged. Upon return to the seller it was replaced. Now if that had been a new car it would have been "repaired" not replaced.

The microswave is worth less than $400.00 the motor vehicle a great deal more. The warrantly applicable to the motor vehicle lacks the same "equity!!" as the warranty attached to the motor vehicle. Wrong in my opinion.

I to have suffered the "no warranty" issue. A recent one was a vehcile braking system which the dealer declared worn and in need of repair at 45,000 kilometres. Warranty I declared! Wear and tear stated the dealer. No warranty! I can assure you that the $1,000.00 dollars required to "repair" the brakes was not spent at the dealership.

At the same time some vehicle owners and these in my opinion are very much a minority, do push the "warranty envelope" to exstreme. The majority should not suffer for these very small numbers.

I believe that it is time for legislation to clearly define vehicle warranties and place clear and well defined obligations on manufacturers and purchasers. Tough "Lemon Legislation" is certainly overdue as well.

As a consumer I believe that vehicle warranty and dealer service is not a positive selling point of any motor vehicle sale. I am of the opinion that the last thing a dealership workshop wants is warranty work as there is little or no money in it for them. Warranty work costs a manufacturer $$$ and in this time of tight vehicle margins and very competative selling environment you and I are the loser at the warranty end of the deal.

My thoughts.

Letters to the MP's and media....:-)

Paul
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Follow Up By: Member - Landie - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 09:57

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 09:57
Hi Paul

I'm sure that the dealership gets paid by the distributor for warranty work do so would have thought they'd be indifferent to how the work comes to them?
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Follow Up By: Member - Paul P (Bris) - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 17:22

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 17:22
G'day

They do ( get payed) but at a lower rate than a customers workshop rate.

Regards

Paul
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Reply By: Member - Bradley- Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 01:43

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 01:43
well play them at their own game, and remember to always put everything in writing, request a new traction control system be fitted under warranty as it has obviously failed if it allowed such a "massive" wheelspin to occur that was capable of shearing the spider gear pin in the diff. also request that the damaged parts be supplied to you in sealed packaging, along with oil samples from the diff, so you can have an independant metalurgical examination carried out, to see if there is a basic fault with the material.

but i would contact consumer affairs to get their opinion, as technically this vehicle cannot spin the wheels enough to damage itsself.

as trucky says, something smells fishy, i would say its the service manager looking after his monthly margins.....
AnswerID: 166819

Reply By: Member - greg S (QLD) - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 06:55

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 06:55
PatrickW,
Don't know if the info I have will be of any use, or if you already know, but if you want you can email me on grvlsobczak@aapt.net.au and I will tell you.

Greg S
AnswerID: 166828

Reply By: Redback - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 07:24

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 07:24
Also with this warrenty thing, LandRover assist ( read non-assist) are as useless and in fact is now looked after by NRMA, a friend of mine in his brand new RR Sport had 2 flats while in Newnes and after we couldn't fix one of the flats he rang LR Assist, they told him they don't cover flats in their assist program.

Not that it would of mattered anyway we rang the NRMA and they said they couldn't do anything till monday, so we would of had to have left his $115,000 RR Sport at Bungleboori from saturday afternoon till monday, we hired a car trailer and took it back to sydney ourselves, LR got a very nasty call monday.

We love our Rovers but like many makers of cars, their custumer service SUCKS

Baz.
AnswerID: 166829

Reply By: Member - Kelvin Y (NSW) - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 07:29

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 07:29
Hey Patrick,

I have had my Td5 since 2000. 150 000km I have done many modifications and have no real grief. What part of the diff exactly did you break? Unfortunately the diff and axels of later model LR tend to be their weak link. I had mine replaced by a company called Maxidrive who fabricate strong after market replacements. I had the whole rear end upgraded with a rear diff lock for just over $3000. Anyway if you need any advice on Discovery II related issues try these links:

autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/D2au/

www.d2au.com/index.php

Regards

Kelvin

AnswerID: 166831

Follow Up By: Redback - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 07:37

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 07:37
Good advice here Patrick, i go to these forums for advice on aftermarket gear.

Maxidrive is good, JMac as well, both make lockers and stronger axles for Rovers.

Baz.
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Reply By: Member - Ozdyssey (QLD) - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 08:04

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 08:04
Anyone want to buy a TD5 - only 35,000k's
going cheap....
LOL
:)
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Reply By: Mr Fawlty - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 14:30

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 14:30
Patrick.... Mate I feel for you. However as a person who has been threatened with litigation more times that you have had sunday dinners I can only offer this advice. It's the squeaky hinge that gets the oil. Just stick to the facts, be ever vigilant about remaining truthfull. The libel laws only will work against you if you do not tell the truth or cannot subsantiate your claims. I got away with calling a person a petty criminal & "Arthur Daley" type once only because when he took the matter to court I produced evidence in the form of documents relating to his behaviour on previous occasions.
Now, if I were in your shoes I would:
a) Tell the dealer "Dealer Principle" that you do not accept his/her reasoning for dissmissing your warranty claim.
b) Advise the same person that you will be making your claim public, that you are not going to distort or malign him/her but merely stick to the facts that you were useing a vehicle for the purpose that it was sold for, that it failed for mechanical reasons that were not of your causing and that they have declined your warranty claim.
Suggest that you will do this in the media & in fact to anyone who will listen as well as the internet and 4x4 magazines etc...
You can go to the Office of fair trading in your state but you may experience limited success, in the ACT they are a toothless tiger, I have made many complaints but never had one resolved in my favour....
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Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 15:02

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 15:02
G'day Mr Fawlty

In respect to the Office of Fair Trading it is the same in QLD. I had some bimbo there tell me that they could only assist me to the extent that the supplier was prepared to cooperate - how ridiculous! if he was cooperating I wouldn't need them. A visit to the small claims convinced me and the supplier that my complaint was genuine. It riles me that these agencies do nothing and the supplier still readily states that he has no problems with his product.

Kind regards
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Reply By: Member - Landie - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 15:20

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 15:20
Patrick

Write to the Managing Director of Land Rover Australia, Stephen Morton, outlining all the facts including how many Land Rovers you have had, thus establishing your loyalty to the brand.

I think the approach to take is that this is a 'goodwill issue' from there persepctive and that if they can spend hundred's of thousands of dollars on advertising to attact consumers to the new Discovery, than they should ensure they don't disenfranchise the loyal customers they already have.

I had an issue, albeit nothing like yours, that came to a logger-head and I was not getting the satisfaction I though warranted from the dealer network, so I wrote directly to Stehpen Morton - the matter was resolved within two days.

Perhaps you have already taken this step - in which case, good luck in your pursuit of fairness.

Regards
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 21:14

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 21:14
IMHO, once they have your $ they dont give a bleep anymore.

Also if they lose one sale - what damage does that HONESTLY do to their yearly bottom line?
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Reply By: Bytemrk - Saturday, Apr 15, 2006 at 21:16

Saturday, Apr 15, 2006 at 21:16
PatrickW,

I think you may find that Landie is spot on with what he suggests. Stephen Morton came to an LROCV meeting last year as a guest... and he was surprisingly human for a car company exec.

One of the guys asked him about Landrover assist.. not coming to more remote places -his reaction was instant and very firm - they Outsource that job - but if LR assist do not come to you - ANYWHERE in Aus ( we used the simpson as an example)... he wants to know about it because that is what Land Rover expect.

So I would certainly be writing to him with your issues and pushing a little harder.

Land Rover do have a reputation of being better at supporting their warranties than some others... you should push harder.

good luck, Mark
AnswerID: 167174

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