GU IV 4.2TD What do you make of this????

Submitted: Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 19:53

ThreadID: 33052 Views:3358 Replies:8 FollowUps:12

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babs

Hi every one, whats your thoughts on this?

My GU IV 4.2 TD Patrol 05 mod has around 15000klm at the present, a couple of thousand klms into driving, it developed a loud rattle and clunky drive train, so at around 5000klm I took it into Nissan and it had a new rear diff fitted, they said there was metal shavings and the oil was black inside.

Drive train is still clunky and am starting to live with it, but the rattle in the drive train (assumed) is still there.

So last month had it back in with Nissan and there has also been a wind in the clutch on take off under load, more so when reversing especially with a slight load such as a slanted drive way.

It was thought this could be the cause of the loud rattle under load, so a new clutch was fitted and the fly wheel machined, apparently on the flywheel there were rust spots they described it as pitted, and that it would have been from factory from possibly lying around before fitment mmmm???

The noise can be heard with a bit of load on the engine such as changing gears to soon and accelerating off in to a higher gear. The worst is (scenario) when I'm driving and some one pulls in front causing me to brake, going to quick to gear down but now to slow to stay in the same gear or as it seems. This is when the rattle is at its worst as I accelerate off again in the same gear which is normally 3rd gear you get that shudder which is quite normal but this rattle is not, it sounds like a bolt loose in the chassis or some thing tinny loose and its loud!

A representative from Nissan direct has been dealing with my case and approving all the work to be done by the dealer, even he agrees the rattle is not normal the problem is finding out where its coming from.

The tow bar has been removed and refitted, and everything else is tight underneath their stumped.

Also it does not seem to have very good torque, I had around 320 kg in it include passengers and camp gear and could not get up a driveway on a hill it just kept stalling, I would get the revs right up then release the clutch but as soon as it felt the load it would stall???????? Unloaded it makes it up the same hill only just the revs drop right down?????

For a diesel I'm surprised I would have thought there torque would be better, starting to think I should have stuck with Toyota?

They have taken a bunch of readings and sent them off to Nissan Technical Department yet to hear?

Has any one got any ideas on a diagnosis of the rattle and the low torque? PLEASE HELP!

Thank you,

Babs.

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Reply By: Member - Bill S (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 20:14

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 20:14

HI BABS, Many things can cause your problem as to the rattle- excessive end play in transfere gears-excessive end float in gearbox gears itself,very hard to call without hearing
.As to your lack of torque have your mechanic check the actual injector pump timimg and of course fuel filters and air filter.I would assume that this was allready done but???

Hope it helps Regards BILL

AnswerID: 167888

Reply By: ACDC - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 20:32

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 20:32

Maybe a loose baffle in exhaust system causing rattle and blockage,who know's could 100 different things!
Good luck lets us know what they find in the end..

AnswerID: 167896

Reply By: Geoff - the first - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 20:55

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 20:55

Babs,

If you have changed the suspension, I bet I know what it is.............

Geoff

AnswerID: 167903

Follow Up By: babs - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 21:12

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 21:12

HI Geoff, yes I have changed the suspension it has a 2" old man emu lift by ARB.

Regards
Babs.

FollowupID: 423150

Follow Up By: Geoff - the first - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 21:32

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 21:32

Babs,

Of course, I was referring to the rattle only.
My 2000 4.2td developed an annoying rattle that I initially thought was a loose baffle. I then realised the noise started some time after fitting the aftermarket suspension, so I checked for exhaust/suspension clashes. No joy there.
Surprisingly, it turned out that harmonics were causing the passenger side rear spring to vibrate back and forth in the saddle on the diff housing (don't ask how I found it...........). If you check the standard springs, you will see they have a rubber sleeve over the bottom turn or two (now, why would that be there?).
A bit of plastic tube on the bottom of the new springs completely cured the rattle.

Good luck with the torque problem.
Geoff

FollowupID: 423160

Follow Up By: babs - Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 13:20

Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 13:20

Hi Geoff, thanks for your reply just checked out the original springs and they have the plastic on them that you mentioned, can I use them or do you recommend something else?

I was under the Patrol giving the rear springs a bash with a rubber mallet trying to recreate the same rattle, its similar just not as prominent as when driving so I'm willing to give it a try.

Member Stephen M replied further down regarding the steering dampener, could this be a problem, it does not seem right, then again I don't doubt him and am willing to try anything.

The rattle is high pitched tinny vibrating sound and it does seem to be coming from the passenger side rear, so your theory stands up best at the moment.

Thanks Heaps,

Babs.

FollowupID: 423289

Follow Up By: Geoff - the first - Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 18:14

Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 18:14

Hello Babs,

What you describe sounds exactly like the noise I had.

I doubt that you'll replicate the noise by bashing the springs with a mallet. The harmonics make the spring vibrate very quickly. The noise is as much from the spring in the saddle as from the bottom 2 coils clanging together.

I tried the sleeves from the original springs, and they almost did the job.
I think perhaps they weren't quite thick enough. Flexible plastic tube with about 1-2mm wall thickness is the go. Measure your new spring and go for something a little oversize. I'm sure you'll be pleased with the result.

Cheers
Geoff

FollowupID: 423377

Follow Up By: babs - Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 21:56

Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 21:56

Hey Geoff, ill try some of that clear plastic hose, give us about a week and ill let you know, much appreciated so far.

Thanks,

Babs.

FollowupID: 423471

Reply By: Trevor R (QLD) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 21:00

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 21:00

I remember a wedding prank that went horribly wrong, for the groom, when the sinker that was attached to the muffler (or drive shaft??) caused a rattle that cost the groom a pretty packet to find. The perpurtrator forgot to tell the groom of his actions. Try and see if anything is inside muffler.... Do you have kids? if you know what I mean.
With regards to the low torque, get an independant mob to dyno your car and see how different your figures are to other Nissans. Should only cost a 150 bucks (about) but may tell you a lot more about your car.
1st gear is pretty tall in these but if Nissan think it's sluggish then there may be something more in it.

Good Luck
Trevor.

AnswerID: 167906

Reply By: fnqcairns - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 21:30

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 21:30

I have a TD4.2 it's a 96 so it should have the same gearbox ratios as you do - the close ratio gearbox. Apparently the earlier than 94 had a lower first gear among other changed ratios only 4th stayed the same.

Some of your low RPM torque problem could probably be related to this in comparison to the earlier engines. Your diff ratio can play a part also.

Anyway to me the rattle seems to be the typical one found in most TD4.2s with a few km under their belt. Trying to torque away at say 1000rpm (or less) in 3rd gear causes all sorts of strange noises to emanate, although yours does seem to be an early onset.

The noises in older vehicles (with virtually the same drivetrain) are directly related to drive train wear although the drive train is still perfectly serviceable and could expect a long life. These engines are old tech and hammer at the drive train somewhat until the revs are high enough for smooth power flow, I have had to adapt my driving style to accommodate the beast it is, still I wouldn't own any other 4x4 diesel engine as what makes it a rough old girl also makes it tough, low maintenance, low cost and totally reliable old girl also.

If you do believe their is a torque problem at low rpm the only way to prove it is with a run on a dyno then armed with these numbers you can front up to Nissan.

I suspect that without a gearbox change you will be stuck with the noise, even new boxes can be assembled out of spec somewhere internal, these things happen and it really should be addressed before warranty's end IMO.

I have on occasion when traveling in a 2wd firetrail situations while in an absent frame of mind tried to softly accelerate uphill in 3rd instead of 2nd. This has in the early days seen me pull up and check underneath with the belief I must have blown something up. They really do bang and crash from below in situations like this. As mentioned above pump timing/calibration an make one hell of a difference to how it behaves under low rpm load also.

All just guesses from my desktop of coarse on all of the above that relates to your Patrol but you did ask for thoughts. Hope you get it sorted and I would be interested to hear how you went when the time comes.

cheers nqcairns

AnswerID: 167918

Reply By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 22:34

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 22:34

Hi there babs, If you have aftermarket springs etc did you also get a return to centre steering dampner, if so check the spring is not rattling around, might seem to be a tight fit when stationary but when driving they can rattle sending you mad, this happened on my mates patrol and was not a very old dampner. Regards Steve M

AnswerID: 167948

Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 20:18

Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 20:18

Babs My gu3 has the same problem, does it sound like a bit of tinplate vibrating ? I think it is a stone guard in front of a brakeline, Patrols have a few of these. It occurs under load in the lower gears. Mine seems to be under the drivers side back seat. Nissan couldnt find it short of strapping a guy underneath and testdriving the vehicle. Sadly there were no volunteers so i have to put up with it!! Michael

Patrol 4.2TDi 2003

Retired 2016 and now Out and About!

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AnswerID: 168149

Follow Up By: babs - Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 21:53

Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 21:53

Hi Michael, did you see Geoff's reply as to what it could be, I am curious do you also have after market suspension fitted.

Yes it sounds like a bit of tin and I thought it was the stone guards as well but now i'm not so sure, Geoff's theory seems to make sense so far.

Would you be able to reply to me and let me know about your suspension situation.

Thanks Heaps,

Babs.

FollowupID: 423468

Follow Up By: Geoff - the first - Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 22:02

Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 22:02

"short of strapping a guy underneath and testdriving the vehicle"

Now you're getting close...................

FollowupID: 423474

Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Friday, Apr 21, 2006 at 08:14

Friday, Apr 21, 2006 at 08:14

Babs, NO ! suspension is totally standard and the noise has been there since day one. To me it is tinplate vibrating, it does not sound like spring noise.. I also have that gearbox or transfer case growl at low speed but much worse on our other earlier GU..Michael

Patrol 4.2TDi 2003

Retired 2016 and now Out and About!

Somewhere you want to explore ? There is no time like the present.

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FollowupID: 423538

Follow Up By: babs - Friday, Apr 21, 2006 at 11:12

Friday, Apr 21, 2006 at 11:12

Thanks Michael, nice to know there common problems and that I have not bought a dud.

Regards,

Babs.

FollowupID: 423573

Follow Up By: Member - Hugh (WA) - Friday, Apr 21, 2006 at 14:21

Friday, Apr 21, 2006 at 14:21

Hi Babs,

I had a similar problem on my GU 2.8 after suspension upgrade. Turned out the the swaybar link on passenger side was not tightened properly (bolt to chassis mount). Normal driving OK but when loaded up would clunk. Tightened up and problem disappeared.

Regards,
Hugh

FollowupID: 423604

Follow Up By: babs - Friday, Apr 21, 2006 at 20:54

Friday, Apr 21, 2006 at 20:54

Something else to check thanks Hugh.

FollowupID: 423695

Reply By: Goona - Friday, Apr 21, 2006 at 18:31

Friday, Apr 21, 2006 at 18:31

Babs,

I to have a 4.2 turbo patrol and coming from a naturally aspirated 4.2 lancruiser ute I was disapointed with the low down torque. I think due to the turbo being restrictive it stops the torque from coming in till 1800 rpm.

Solution, I went to Motsons in Brisbane and got their 40% upgrade. Unreal difference. torque comes on at 1400rpm. Pulls my 2 ton boat no worries now. Fuel ecconomy about 1lt better per hundred and is a rocket now compared to before.

My mate 3Lt used to blow me away but not any more. He is always trying to keep up but he still is more economical than me just.

Goona

AnswerID: 168364

Follow Up By: babs - Friday, Apr 21, 2006 at 20:32

Friday, Apr 21, 2006 at 20:32

Hey Goona, I too came out of the Toyo's and was seriously thinking there's a problem with my Nissan, but after replies like yours and every one else it seems to be the norm, a bit of a disappointment though on Nissan's behalf especially for a big 4.2 TD put 320kg on it and cant get up a slanted drive way!

What was involved in your 40% up grade, what was the cost and towing your boat starting from a stand still on a hill or slight grade, is the talk there from the release of the clutch like the Toyo's or do you still have to give it a good rev before releasing the clutch?

Regards,

Babs.

FollowupID: 423692