ford escape

Thanks 944runner, it would be mainly for around town, i am not thinking too much 4wdriving....it is only 2 of us. i was wondering about reliability,or any bad reports on them. trev

Do you need a AWD at all? If you're not going offroad at all, or limited to well made dirt roads, then be part of the solution not the problem.

You will be carrying around ~200 kg of AWD mechanicals that will in all likelyhood never be used. This, added to the extra drag of the mechanical systems (only disconnect at the engine end of the driver train, not the wheel hubs like true part time 4WD do) will be a permanant drain on fuel economy, and will just be more stuff to go wrong. Get a mid sized wagon....

You really dont like these cars do you ,garyinoz..I am really am not into euro crap!!

We have been educated into believing that only the American/Japanese owned/franchised car companies are capable of producing quality vehicles, quite simply because that is all we have been exposed to.

The Europeans have been building cars for longer than the Americans (IIRC the first recognised self propelled internal combustion vehicle was Daimler's 3 wheeled buggy, no Henry Ford here...).

Each of the major European countries has one or two car manufacturers that are capable of producing quality vehicles (Peugeot, MercBenz, VW) for an international market, and although they have developed a different "direction" in the way they design their vehicles, it is not necessarily wrong in any way. Like all manufacturers they have their good designs and their not so good designs and compared with the US designs are not any better or worse (Ford Explorer, Pacer/Pinto, Chevvy Corvair, to name a few, along with our Camira, P76, anything BMC etc.)

The best analogy I've heard for 4WD is it's a bit like a condom. You may only need it once, but you want it to work for the entire time you need it. Most of the clutch type rear diff disconnects in softroaders just can't cut it when you really need them

I do not agree on the usa/japan thing, when i was growing up, it was always the quality of the euro cars being pushed, and the yank /jap cars second rate!!!

Precisely my point, so why are you looking at a USA/Japanese vehicle.

One walk around and short drive of any of the US built vehicles would be enough to scare you off them (fit and finish, reliability, general lack of use of modern technology, poor handling).

The Japanese build generally good vehicles, but are still struggling with the "international" requirements of the market, versus their own marketing needs (only got to look at some of the disinctly "Japanese" models to undestand what I mean). It's only the foreign arms of the Japanese companies that can re-engineer anything that comes out of Japan (Australia, Toyota Camry), or that make models seperate to the Japanese market (US, Nissan Armada), or gets the vehicles made according to country of destination specifications (Toyota Corolla), that makes them marketable. "Japanese market" vehicles a have a lifespan of 4-5 yrs before they are turned over due to increased tax on ownership. Why would the manufacturers make something that will last 10-15 yrs for their domestic market?
They make it to last for 6 yrs in the average vehicle usage (cf. grey import Toyota Surf's many problems after a few years).

Europeans, (in particular the French) have a history of making vehicles that are able to take a thrashing and come back for more (Renault 2CV, Peugeot 404), mainly through their political and economic connection with a lot of the North African countries, and the rugged terrain that exists there (not unlike Australia). They generally make them easy to service, if you know what you are doing (there are of course some exceptions).

I still say, think about what you really need, rather than the "keeping up with the Jones" mentality, have a look at a few European vehicles, as a contrast if nothing else, weigh up the 5-7l/100km Tdiesel vs 11-13l/100km petrol (NOT Govt figures, but real day-to-day consumption figures). Over the 1st 100 000km it is about $9000 in fuel saved (at $1.50/l) If you do a few laps of Australia towing a small van and see several hundred thousand km you will end up on your second petrol engine, but still running in your first Tdiesel.

Well gaz, i bought the old escape, new /2.3lt and i got a tell ya , it bloody drives quite nicely, only time will tell on the fuel econ.....

I was thinking of the 2.3 4cyl model . just mainly for around town.
trev

See above.

There are far better options around if you look a bit more broadly, and match your NEEDS (not wants) with what is available. 2.3 liters (~110 kW) pulling a vehicle that is 200kg heavier than a Commodore( at150-175 kW), don't expect it to be a nice, relaxing drive around town, or for that matter economical.

Garyinoz, mate i have driven one and i thought it was quite good,my current car is a ba xr6 and i must say i was impressed with the ride,performance.......and on paper has a lot better fuel ecom. than a 6cyl.
trev d

Thinking more along the lines of a turbodiesel european wagon. Better fuel economy by far, easier to drive/manoever around town, and still capable of a sprint down the freeways and dirt roads. If 5-7 L/100km with good to very good performance, and more than adequate load carrying capacity doesn't make it a compelling inclusion into your radar.........................

MATE, looking at a very nice 2004 rav4 with everything on it,,i know what your saying about the european cars, but i have never been a big lover of them!
trev d