Fuel Again

Submitted: Monday, May 15, 2006 at 18:19
ThreadID: 33919 Views:1835 Replies:7 FollowUps:15
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If we forget about cost and perfromance is there any engine or other component benefit from running 98 RON when the vehicle will run on 91 RON?
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Reply By: Exploder - Monday, May 15, 2006 at 18:35

Monday, May 15, 2006 at 18:35
This can be agued about all day.

Short answer, yes
but
If it’s built to run on 91 then no need to run it on 98 unless engine has been modified enough to need PULP.
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Follow Up By: WDR - Monday, May 15, 2006 at 19:09

Monday, May 15, 2006 at 19:09
I am talking about the Kluger - Same motor as the smaller Lexus 4x4 - Presumably re-tuned.

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Follow Up By: Laura B - Monday, May 15, 2006 at 20:02

Monday, May 15, 2006 at 20:02
Most cars out there today - minus those wrx's - are not made to run on 98RON and most will start to ping whenthe RON is this high......

Most cars are good for 95 - 96RON at the most and do alot better if the fuel has an injector cleaner in it ( not justnormal premium)......

We do pay more for it at the bowser but from my experience and the Q's i have asked (from behind the servo counter) its a lot more worth it because of the extra km you recieve......

but older cars are good for normal...

Have also heard that too much injetor cleaner going through all the time can be more corrosive than good.....

for a Kluger I would suggest a good 96RON with injector cleaner in it .

Thats just imho though

but i agree with exploder - this can be argued till the cows come home...oh hang on they are home!! (for me anyway)...

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Follow Up By: Laura B - Monday, May 15, 2006 at 20:03

Monday, May 15, 2006 at 20:03
forgot to add - it also depends on where you buy the petrol from too!!

Laura B
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Monday, May 15, 2006 at 23:30

Monday, May 15, 2006 at 23:30
"Most cars out there today - minus those wrx's - are not made to run on 98RON and most will start to ping whenthe RON is this high...... "

forgive me if I am wrong, but isnt this arse about? If you run a car intended for PULP on ULP, the result is likely to be pinging?

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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 13:12

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 13:12
Maybe that's why the Futch catalist doesnt work, makes the RON so high the engine pings.....LOL

Laura, you have it the wrong way around. You will do no harm other than to you pocket, and you may actually do some good as the higher RON fuels have better quality detergents/lubricants (lead substitutes) than the basic ULP.

As for the pinging, it goes away with higher RON.
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Follow Up By: Laura B - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 15:05

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 15:05
Site Link
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Reply By: Member - Oldplodder (QLD) - Monday, May 15, 2006 at 19:10

Monday, May 15, 2006 at 19:10
If it runs a carby, or possibly early fuel injection, and has a compression ration less than 9:1, possibly not, unless you are willing to specifically tune the engine to suit.
If it is reasonablt new and is able to sense oxygen in the exhaust, or better still a knock sensor, it may benifit from PULP, since the engine management system could advance the timing to take advantage of it.

Bit of suck it and see. There is not a general rule.
AnswerID: 172823

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 13:31

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 13:31
"...it may benifit from PULP, since the engine management system could advance the timing to take advantage of it...."

You mean "...IF the engine management system could advance...".

EFI systems work to a "map" stored in their memory. Most systems have a preset "maximum" advance for the ignition, at a given load/throttle position/RPM usually calibrated for standard 91 RON fuel. Even when fed the 95/98 RON fuel, unless the ECU has been altered in some way, the maximum timing advance point will still be the same (as per the map). The timing will be retarded (taking inputs from the knock sensor) if the fuel is not even up to the 91 RON standard to prevent pinging (minus one or two RON points).

Having said all that it is possible for a vehicle to have an ECU set up for PULP 95-98 RON but with a wide enough internal "map" to be able to handle 91 RON based on inputs from the knock sensor. The ECU has to take some time learning the fuel characteristics, but they usually try to keep the ignition timing at the peak of what the fuel (or blend) can do, so if you fill up with PULP it will "come to life" again after running on ULP.
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Reply By: F4Phantom - Monday, May 15, 2006 at 19:32

Monday, May 15, 2006 at 19:32
I am very suspect of all this. I had a WRX. I always used the PULP cause your ment to. It's supposed to give better performance & better economy. One time I decided to go ULP I think becuase of a large cost difference. Anyway I was very good with recording my economy at the time so I expected to loose a few k's. Amazingly I found I was consistantly getting 50 to 80km more on every tank. Up from PULP 480k's a tank to 530 - 560 EVERY TIME. Obvioulsy I never used PULP again. My father also has a subaru and actually predicted my results after he found the exact same thing. Since then it happened on another car my friend owns. I know this aint exactly scientific but I convinced that although it could clean your engine more, its just crap about better economy for every car.
AnswerID: 172827

Follow Up By: Exploder - Monday, May 15, 2006 at 19:46

Monday, May 15, 2006 at 19:46
I got a mate with a Supercharged Monaro (17PSI) tuned for 98, Wonder what would happen if he run that on 91.

WE keep trying to get him to take the 19’s off and put the 15-inch Commodore steel pursuit Rims on it then tow a boat around with it. LOL
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Follow Up By: F4Phantom - Monday, May 15, 2006 at 20:59

Monday, May 15, 2006 at 20:59
with a car like that, economy is not important. my car was a daily so i wanted top go further on a tank. knock sensors and all the rest take care of any low RON probs.
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Follow Up By: Scubaroo - Monday, May 15, 2006 at 23:21

Monday, May 15, 2006 at 23:21
480km from a WRX? I used to be lucky to get 350km :-)

Think the right foot had a lot to do with it!!!
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Monday, May 15, 2006 at 23:28

Monday, May 15, 2006 at 23:28
"Most cars out there today - minus those wrx's - are not made to run on 98RON and most will start to ping whenthe RON is this high...... "

forgive me if I am wrong, but isnt this arse about? If you run a car intended for PULP on ULP, the result is likely to be pinging?
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Monday, May 15, 2006 at 23:29

Monday, May 15, 2006 at 23:29
posted above in wrong place sorry!
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Follow Up By: F4Phantom - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 09:28

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 09:28
yeah but knock sensors can advance and retard the timing and take care of pinging. It's just performace is supposed to suffer. I wonder if a boxer engine has anything to do it. Anyone got a 911 to try it out on? Drop it at my place for a once off FREE offer, thats right FREE 6 months test.
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Reply By: V8Diesel - Monday, May 15, 2006 at 19:43

Monday, May 15, 2006 at 19:43
Very interesting question. My GU Patrol ran much better on PULP, quite noticably so, but after running my 100 series on plain ULP due to it being the only available option for some time now, I'm not so sure it is the case with the Toyota. Doesn't seem to make much difference.
AnswerID: 172829

Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Monday, May 15, 2006 at 19:45

Monday, May 15, 2006 at 19:45
Forgot to add, a girl I know had a Nissan Maxima and that ran like total crap on ULP, pinging and farting around but switch to BP Ultimate - different car. It was fully imported from memory so maybe that has something to do with it.

My old Kawasaki Z1000 hated ULP too, but ran like a clock on BP Ultimate.
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Follow Up By: F4Phantom - Monday, May 15, 2006 at 20:05

Monday, May 15, 2006 at 20:05
I forgot to add, every car in my experiance with this has been a subaru. Maybe subaru are playing funny games with their engines!
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Reply By: Scubaroo - Monday, May 15, 2006 at 23:19

Monday, May 15, 2006 at 23:19
Best thing to do is do 3-4 tankfulls of ULP, and then similar distances on 95 and 98. I use Shell Optimax on my 3.5L Pajero - get better economy around town, and far better economy on the highway, and there's noticeably more power. Both around town and on the highway, the cost per km works out cheaper to run PULP. So I run it all the time. Never got around to trying 95.

It seems that it's particular to each make and model - there's no clearcut yes/no answer in general.

Wish I'd known about WRXs running fine on ULP - I get the same economy out my Pajero as I did that thing when I had it.
AnswerID: 172876

Reply By: Member - Heidi L (NSW) - Friday, May 26, 2006 at 15:36

Friday, May 26, 2006 at 15:36
I found the Kluger ran better on the 98. There was a while you couldn't get PULP in Sydney for a few weeks and it was definetly noticable in performance.
I also found the Check Engine light came on if I filled up at a smaller petrol station like on Fraser Island, or country towns if it did not like the quality of the fuel.
AnswerID: 174931

Reply By: Alloy c/t - Friday, May 26, 2006 at 16:25

Friday, May 26, 2006 at 16:25
Next door neighbour is a mechanic [or should I say technician] whose private vehicle is a 98 pajero 3.5v6 ,he would only ever use the premium priced 98 ron as he claims is better for his motor and gets better fuel economy than using "standard' 91 ron ulp,, on a recent trip when time to refuel no 98 was available so in went the standard 91 ron ,, he is now saving the odd $ and getting an extra 50/60 klm for the same amount of litres/ tank ,,,would seem that the best fuel rating to use is the one that the vehicle maker recomends ,in this instance the handbook states 91 ron as the minimum.
AnswerID: 174933

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