Murphy has bitten

Submitted: Thursday, Jun 01, 2006 at 21:12
ThreadID: 34519 Views:2371 Replies:23 FollowUps:30
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I sold a trailer back in late 03 no biggie there everyone does that or similar. However it would appear the person i sold it to never changed details with the DOT and is still in my name?.

How do i know this well he shot through a radar with the trailer and was photed but alas who's name they get MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

Sent back reply to Police stating I don;t own the trailer and have not for some years and I don;t have the receipt to whom i sold it to (big issue there).

Got the reply to day .......... in a nut shell tuff sh&t you are the registered owner $150 and three points or court .................. Or MUST notify us who is the driver. Well at this stage its court as I WILL not pay the fine. The funny part is i was in Darwin at the time not QLD

Off to DOT to state i don't OWN the trailer etc etc and bugger me they say sorry we cannot help??????????? like now i'm starting to stress as i said this bloke only needs to get photed a couple more time and I LOSE MY LICENCE ................

So now going to right a letter to Traffic Inspector, Extra, Local Member, DOT and spit chips .................

The only thing i feel i have not done is not follow up that the transfer had gone through but after 2 odd years I figured all is fine.

As i pointed out to DOT this bloke is running around with an unregisterd trailer and I'm the one in the SH&t ????????????????????????

Murphy 2

Drove home yesterday fuel 119 c litre go to get today 133 c litre ask bloke on counter the tanker come in last night ....... no not due for couple of days??? i say how come the fuel JUST jumped 14 c a litre ........... who is stealing from whom .......... he said its now me............. yes i know but to be honest the whole fuel industry is one big bunch of crooks and NOONE will touch you .............. You are ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL screwing the public and the pollies are in bed with the fuel companies ..................... and as i turn and about to leave my local member was there so let him have a mouth full as well to the cheers of a few in the store.

Sorry just my winge just a BAD day

Brian



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Reply By: Member - uncle - Thursday, Jun 01, 2006 at 21:23

Thursday, Jun 01, 2006 at 21:23
Sorry to hear that Brian, must be very frustrating. We recently sold a vehicle and caravan, here in NSW we can notify the Roads & Traffic Authority online about who we sold it to or you can complete the notice of dispoal section on the bottom of the rego papers.Hope it gets sorted for you,cheers Laurie
AnswerID: 176213

Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Thursday, Jun 01, 2006 at 21:38

Thursday, Jun 01, 2006 at 21:38
If he paid you by cheque, you could get it traced and thus find out who he is.
AnswerID: 176218

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Jun 01, 2006 at 23:14

Thursday, Jun 01, 2006 at 23:14
Report the trailer stolen :) Claim the insurance.
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Reply By: ZUKSCOOTERX90(QLD-MEMBER) - Thursday, Jun 01, 2006 at 21:39

Thursday, Jun 01, 2006 at 21:39
Brian did you also get the said photo. If not can you request one to try & identify the culptrit's motor vehicle,having typed this it is probably in some one elses name as well.Can you get an Affidavit from some in N.T to verify you being there at the time of the infringement & signed by a J.P.It is a tough lot to cop though,cheer's Bob.
AnswerID: 176220

Reply By: Exploder - Thursday, Jun 01, 2006 at 21:50

Thursday, Jun 01, 2006 at 21:50
Yeah I would of thought it would have been pretty straight forward, get ½ a dozen people to make statements saying you have not owned the trailer for some years, I would of thought it would be easy to show you where out of the state at the time of the offence.

They are real bleep s about this stuff. I would be going to court over it, F**k em there have been that many stuff up’s with traffic fines lately you would think the Cop’s/ Governments would learn but they don’t. The WA government just had to admit that like 2000 drivers had wrongly had there licenses suspended as they had been fined Double demerits due to a computer F**kup, Arr Whoop’s Sorry, Yeah tell that to thy guy who had is license wrongly cancelled.

Then to top it all off the police minister was caught driving without a licence after he mad a big show over the new laws he is bring in to make the roads safer and he is driving without a license.
AnswerID: 176225

Follow Up By: Scoey (QLD) - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 08:58

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 08:58
This is off the main topic but nevertheless... Does anyone know what you can do if you see a police officer commiting an offence? Driving down the highway the other day I passed a police car and the officer was driving along chatting on his mobile he was holding against the side of his head. I was in front of him for a while and the conversation lasted at least 5 minutes. I was so riled up that I neglected to get the licence plate but does anyone know what would've happend if I noted the time, date, place & vehicle particulars and reported it to the local cop shop? It was just so blatant! I hate double standards!

Cheers
Scoey!
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Follow Up By: Des Lexic - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 09:40

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 09:40
Scoey,
Cops and Emergency workers are excluded from the phone use whilst driving regulations. (In SA anyway)
They claim that because they have done a defensive driving course. So have I but it don't count in my case.
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Follow Up By: Scoey (QLD) - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 09:57

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 09:57
Yeah fair enough. Funny that they use the analogy that your concerntration whilst driving and talking on the phone is eqivalent to being x times over the legal blood alcahol limit. haha! Maybe they should allow coppers to drink and drive too! Bloody good defensive drivers course they must do! ;-) Cheers for the info Des - it sucks but sounds likely! ;-)

Cheers
Scoey!
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FollowupID: 432306

Follow Up By: Alan H - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 10:52

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 10:52
Some years ago I followed a cop on his motorbike through Perth and his driving was appalling, so I took his rego, noted the time, place etc. To cap it off he was nearly flattened by a Lancruiser as he swerved into the next lane in an effort to get over a set of lights.
He got over OK just as they changed to red.
This road led to the Mitchell Freeway and when I got onto it a couple of minutes later there he was beside the road, booking a girl with a Suzucki, what for I don't know.
As soon as I got home I rang Traffic and asked to speak to an officer in charge as I had a complaint, told him what it was about and he asked that I write in and gave me the address.
I did but thought that would be the end of that but within a week a Seregant rang me at home saying he was investigating and would I go over the details with him. This I did and he advised the officer in question denied rding in such a fashion and denied being where I said he'd been.
The Sergeant said he'd been back through the cops incident book and found the copy infringement notice which placed him exactly where I said at that time!

I said that as far as I was concerned not only was he a lousy arrogant incompetent driver, he was also a liar and should he be a copper.
The Sergeants reply was "It does bring his continuing service as a Police Officer into question".
In conclusion, I said I'd leave it in the police hands and they later advised in a formal response to my complaint, that he'd been taken off road duties!

If they've got the authority to hand out tickets for bad driving, lets have them setting a good example.
One up for the long suffering public.
Happy motoring.
Alan.
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Follow Up By: demented - Saturday, Jun 03, 2006 at 01:08

Saturday, Jun 03, 2006 at 01:08
As a follow up to the off topic, and as a cooper ;)

I'm not trying to defend every copper doing something that appears wrong. There are bad apples in the Police as in any other career, but it is often the case that the officer in question is driving in a particular manner for a good reason (on the phone to the sergeant getting urgent information too long winded for the radio as radio time can sometimes be precious; speeding through the orange to catch another vehicle that is doing something wrong etc.). We're not required to put the lights and sirens on every time we break the road rules if it is "reasonable" (this word is from the road rules) to leave them off. Also there is specific exemptions in the aus road rules regarding drivers of police vehicles and mobile phones.

A lot of officers drive to high priority incidents without their lights and sirens on because of the STUPID stuff some people do when they see a police car/ambulance/fire engine in emergency mode. It's often easier and safer to weave through traffic than risk someone rapidly changing lanes in front of you at the last minute because they haven't been paying attention to their mirrors. I'm not saying everyone is like this, just enough people to make life interesting when you're hurrying to save someones life :( (as an aside, this is such a common problem that our police motor bikes have the facility to turn only the rear emergency lights on when they need to so that people can see that the bike that just flashed past did have a good reason).

That being said, the guy Alan H is talking about is clearly a bad apple and here's hoping he got turfed unceremoniously from the job 'cause there's nothing worse than a lying copper.

Sorry about the vent, we just get really fed up with people assuming we're breaking the road rules for the hell of it when this is rarely the case.

And no offence meant to anyone either.

SCOEY,
If you really think the cop was doing the wrong thing, just ring your local station or the police attendance line (or the main switchboard) and tell them that you'd like to make a complaint (as Alan H did). All Police forces take these things very seriously these days and you should be directed to the appropriate person.

Most of us try to set an example where possible, it's just not always possible :(

I know I'm about to cop (no pun intended) a flaming cause we're not a loved profession to say the least, but it's nice to put across our side occasionally.

Cheers and again sorry for the vent,

Demented
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Follow Up By: agsmky - Saturday, Jun 03, 2006 at 08:14

Saturday, Jun 03, 2006 at 08:14
thanks for the explanation :-)

andrew
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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Saturday, Jun 03, 2006 at 18:52

Saturday, Jun 03, 2006 at 18:52
Do Taxi Drivers do Defensive Driving Courses so they can safely read and operate their Data Terminals while driving ?

Mike
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Follow Up By: demented - Sunday, Jun 04, 2006 at 18:57

Sunday, Jun 04, 2006 at 18:57
Don't know, but as a passenger of a few cabs in my time, if they do it's not working :)

Demented
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Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Thursday, Jun 01, 2006 at 21:59

Thursday, Jun 01, 2006 at 21:59
Brian,

Check the back of the registration papers you have for your vehicle. (trailer registration would be the same)

If it is similar to South Australian regs, the onus is on the NEW owner to notify the Registration Department.

1. There is nowhere on our Registration papers where the Old (current) owner must fill in, sign and send to the Dept. of Transport & Registration.
The only requirement is for the current owner to sign the portion of the Registration papers which is then handed to the new owner and it is He, or She, that must notify the relevant Authorities. What the new owner does, or doesn't do, is beyond your control.

2. When the registration has expired, NOBODY is the registered owner.

I would confidently take those two points to argue in Court.
Bill


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AnswerID: 176228

Follow Up By: Joe King - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 19:38

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 19:38
"When the registration has expired, NOBODY is the registered owner. "
real good point
that was the question i was going to ask, if the cops look at the plates in the photo, & its unregistered, how can they hand out a speeding fine or an unregistered vehicle fine, I would have gone with an earlier post, report it stolen & collect the insurance....
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Reply By: Jugs - Thursday, Jun 01, 2006 at 22:15

Thursday, Jun 01, 2006 at 22:15
Seems to me you just say John Doe and you tell them to prove the bloke pulling it is not John Doe and thats the name he gave me 3 years ago prove different. If they do find him to prove different they have the guy at any rate ??

AnswerID: 176233

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Jun 01, 2006 at 22:29

Thursday, Jun 01, 2006 at 22:29
Cancel the rego, adn get a refund on the $$...

then said twonk can get done for unregistered in future :)
AnswerID: 176236

Reply By: Member - Bradley- Thursday, Jun 01, 2006 at 22:50

Thursday, Jun 01, 2006 at 22:50
go one better, if you just cancel the rego then the plates are still in your name, pay the fine as a life lesson, then report the plates as stolen, then cash in the rego.
AnswerID: 176242

Reply By: Member - Doug T (QLD) - Thursday, Jun 01, 2006 at 22:59

Thursday, Jun 01, 2006 at 22:59
Brian
hope it works out ok for you , but for your Murphy 2 , do you reackon this might help in the future, probably not

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AnswerID: 176244

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 10:42

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 10:42
Yeah regarding mutphy 2 also, I don't think the guy getting paid $5 bucks and hour to push buttons on the console and cop abuse all day about somthing out of his control really gives a crap about your concerns.

I know it sucks, that's why I don't go to servo's anymore. I buy my fuel in 200L drums from a guy who makes it out of waste vegi oil.

My price is the same everytime I buy it, he delivers it and is always happy for a yarn while doing it. gotta love that, it's almost like I've been taken back in time! ;-)
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Reply By: Muzzgit (WA) - Thursday, Jun 01, 2006 at 23:28

Thursday, Jun 01, 2006 at 23:28
I would have thought all you have to do is ask the DOT to prove it was infact your car towing the trailer at the time.

Take a digital photo of any vehicles registered in your name (front and rear), go to DOT and ask to see the photo, then I would maybe seek legal advice.

They must surely be pushing chit up hill if........
1. they cannot prove it was your car
2. you were interstate and can prove it

If your vehicle was interstate as well, then hey, my money's on you.

Cheers,

Muzz

AnswerID: 176252

Follow Up By: Scoey (QLD) - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 09:14

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 09:14
I was thinking along the same lines - I figure if your vehicle is speeding then fair cop, pay the fine or nominate the driver.

If it's your trailer, then it's a bit rich to apply the same requirement. I'm not sure the exact wording of the offence that you've been charged with but I'd say it would have the word "person" in there (as in "a person must not....") and given the prosecution would have to prove each and every element of the offence beyond reasonable doubt thier case is about as weak as american beer!

Another point to consider: The person towing the trailer in this instance is (in the eyes of the law) operating your vehichle (as it's registered to you and not reported stolen) with your authority. You can be held responsible for things done by this person unless you can prove that you "...took all reasonable steps to prevent the act..." Should be pretty easy to do!

Good luck - fight it all the way - you'll win!
Scoey!
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Reply By: Motherhen - Thursday, Jun 01, 2006 at 23:59

Thursday, Jun 01, 2006 at 23:59
Good suggestions - but depends on law in Qld. Sounds like it is like WA where the owner gets the fine and the de-merits unless he notifies who is driving. Proving it is not you is just not enough - you have to KNOW who is driving your vehicle at any given time, and if the licence is not transferred, you are still the owner. Here licence transfer notification is for the seller to complete, and for the new owner to pay the dreaded stamp duty. Too late for Truckster's lovely suggestion of cancelling the licence - and you don't have the plates to hand in, so another fine.

My son sold a motor bike registered to my husband to a mate, so we left him with the paperwork - but every year we kept getting the renewals. The renewals all had a section to complete on the back to transfer ownership, which we could sign and send to our son as we didn't know the purchaser's name. Sure hope it doesn't happen again this year, as can be seen above, the risks are great.

Only solution i can see is - was the car rego also photographed? That could trace who at least was in charge of the trailer at the time, very likely the new owner.

Good luck, and a lesson to all that attention to detail is important.
Motherhen

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AnswerID: 176258

Reply By: Gramps (NSW) - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 01:23

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 01:23
Brian,

If Qld laws/regs are anything like NSW, then as the registered owner I think you'll be stuck with it. Cancel the rego now to avoid future issues.

However, there was a case recently where the wife/partner of a reasonably well known politician in NSW successfully fought a speeding (?) fine by saying she did'nt remember who was driving the vehicle at the time. She said she was'nt driving anywhere near the location at the time and could not name anyone who may have been driving her car. Supposedly the photo showed her vehicle with a female passenger and a male driver.

She got off !!!!! If you or I tried it we'd have no hope.
AnswerID: 176262

Reply By: Member - Brian H (QLD) - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 05:06

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 05:06
Yeah a number of idea's have been tossed about in my head as what to do.

As someone said hereabouts the buck seems to stop with me ........ as I have to inform them who was driving the vehicle towing the trailer?????????????????? Like i have NO idea how i'm to do this.

The rego was cancelled / expired by the DOT in April 04 because it was not paid I sold it it in late 03.

While its a simple matter of paying the fine and the loose of 3 points coping it as a life experence is all well and good BUTTTTTTTTT this person only needs to do it a couple more times in the near future and I loose my lience ????? .

This of course HAS major implications not only getting to work etc etc but insurance if i have an accident down the track and my driver histroy gets pulled up and shows I lost my lience for various traffic infringments which I never did.

I guess i will send another letter and see where that gets me and send letter to DOT and advise I no longer own this trailer .......... after that hmmmmm try solisitor i guess or Brisbane Extra.

While i was in darwin my vehicle was here not that it matters the vehicle in the photo which you cannot see the plates is a Nissan Patrol mine is a Rodeo ute easly mistaken I guess :) I can prove i was in darwin but thats going to help The Act they are quoting state as the registerd owner its my responsibility to tell them who the driver was at the time of the offence.

HO HUM lifes a bitch sometimes ........ then i wake up and its still just the same different day lol.

Bring on my trip

Brian



AnswerID: 176263

Follow Up By: Member - Steve (ACT) - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 07:37

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 07:37
Dare I say it? As much as I hate these sorts of programs, ACA or Today tonight love this sort of thing!

If you get nowhere with letters try them!

The whole " if he does this a few more time, I'll lose my licence" would be a big worry!

Let us all know how it turns out, and thanks for the warning, here in the ACT we have a section on the back of the rego papers to fill in and send in to notify of a sale. But I was thinking what if that piece of paper never made it there, perhaps noting the licence details of the purchaser to keep for this sort of thing would be a good idea!

Sandy
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Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 08:12

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 08:12
Brian,

You are concerned with 2 problems. No.1 is the current fine and maybe you can get off on that? But No.2 is the uncertain future which seems to be your main concern. My advice is to quickly un own the trailer by either lodging a stat dec with DOT telling them you haven't owned this trailer since 03 OR have it reported stolen (I personally like this better) as the police already have a current location to work with.

Kind regards
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Follow Up By: Barnray - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 08:49

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 08:49
If the trailer is unregistered, I would tell them to go leap and go find the owner. They cancelled the rego. Barnray
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Follow Up By: Member - Brian H (QLD) - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 09:18

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 09:18
Yes I went into DOT yesterday and they said sorry sir we cannot help ................. Which i will be following up today cause i feel thats bullsh$t. There must be away to resolve the ownership of this trailer.

Brian
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Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 09:26

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 09:26
G'day Brian,

I agree mate that sounds like cr@p. There must be any number of ways people get rid of trailers that doesn't involve selling them - there would be a process for this for sure. The one thing that is also for sure - it's no longer yours, neither are you using it, so that bit of info needs to get into the DOT system in a way that doesn't involve you waiting for the purchaser to do something.

Kind regards
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FollowupID: 432297

Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 09:43

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 09:43
Just had a look at Qld Transport and they have a form no F2455ES which is a declaration that has the folllowing description,

" collects information in this form under the Transport operations (Road use Management) Act 1995 to manage the Queensland vehicle and driver register."

Kind regards
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FollowupID: 432301

Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 10:28

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 10:28
The Act states,

" Return of registration plates when registration expires
(1) The chief executive may by written notice given to the person
who was the registered operator of a vehicle whose
registration has expired, require the person to return the
vehicle’s number plates to the chief executive within 14 days
of the date of the notice (the return period).
(2) The person must, within the return period—
(a) return the vehicle’s number plates to the chief executive;
or
(b) if the plates have been lost, stolen or destroyed, notify
the chief executive in writing of the details of the loss,
theft or destruction."

I'd advise DOT that the plates are lost asap.

Kind regards
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FollowupID: 432311

Follow Up By: ZUKSCOOTERX90(QLD-MEMBER) - Saturday, Jun 03, 2006 at 08:14

Saturday, Jun 03, 2006 at 08:14
Brian, I am not trying to be a smart arse, but you state the the ACT say's you the reg. owner it is not reg. any more.The towing vehicle's are totally different,there is no driver for the trailer, it cannot be driven.How on Earth are you expected to name the driver of a vehicle that you have never seen before.There will be a way too beat this just keep an open mind & have a better day today,Cheer's Bob.:)-<
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Reply By: Rosco - Qld - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 08:39

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 08:39
In QLD I believe it's the sellers responsibility to lodge the transfer of registration papers. If so you can't bleat.

Cheers
AnswerID: 176274

Follow Up By: Batboy - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 11:32

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 11:32
Definately the purchasers resposiblilty, however form has two parts A and B
B the seller keeps with the purchasers details, signed by both parties for just such a situation

Bummer shouda kept the form
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FollowupID: 432324

Reply By: Jugs - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 09:00

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 09:00
Brian
It really a poor situation. As I was reading through all the suggestions it struck me that you probably had not been receiving the rego papers. So he may have changed the address to his initially. So may be you could go in and as the reg owner say I haven't seen any rego papers can I have all the addresses they have been sent to, may be this would give you a lead on the bloke and his name.
Jugs
AnswerID: 176275

Reply By: Willem - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 09:16

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 09:16
Brian

My sympathies. I got caught in a similar way.

I left my ute with a mate in Perth while we went overseas. It was registered for 12 months. Unforseen circumstances kept me away for 18 months. I sent money over for the ute to be re registered and it was done.

Unbeknownst to me, my mate 'lent' my ute to his half-brained brother who promptly drove it to Melbourne.

I arrived back from o'seas to find no ute, my mate out bush and his nervous wife left behind to carry the can. She paid me for the ute with apologies. I had to buy another vehicle.

When I went back to my usual address I received a pile of fines and summonses from the Victorian Justice Dept I couldnt jump over. I signed a Stat Dec in front of a Magistrate stating that the vehicle had been used 'illegally', that I can prove I was overseas at the time and that eventually transfer of ownership had not occurred.

Victoria Justice Dept said Tuff Titties. I engaged a Lawyer to write to them. They came back and said Tuff Titties and the summonses kept on coming.

In the end I 'disappeared' off the address list and voters roll and re surfaced some time later.

I never heard another thing. BUT I dread being pulled up ever, when in Victoria......

I think however that the Statute of Limitations is 7 or 10 years. These events took place 22 years ago. So maybe..........I am safe....LOL

Ever since then I advise DOT every time I sell anything that is registered and I make sure that they send me a letter acknowledging it.

AnswerID: 176277

Follow Up By: Rosco - Qld - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 10:25

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 10:25
Sorry old son. No statute of limitations for breaking the law. You'll take it to the grave.

Cheers cob

Rosco
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Follow Up By: Scoey (QLD) - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 11:09

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 11:09
Not quite sure about that Rosco. Can't comment for Willem's particular offence but certain offences I'm responsible for investigating require me to prosecute within 12 months of becoming aware that the offence had taken place. After that - I have nothing. No statute of limitations on murder but most other offences carry a SOL.

I could be wrong but... ;-)
Cheers, Scoey!
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FollowupID: 432322

Follow Up By: Rosco - Qld - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 11:40

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 11:40
Mate, I'd venture to suggest you'd know far more about it than I, so I'll happily bow to your greater knowledge. P'raps it was the murder bit I was getting confused with.

Cheers

Rosco
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Follow Up By: Scoey (QLD) - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 11:49

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 11:49
haha! You'd be the first person to ever say that to me! haha! And I stand by my comment that "...I could be worng..." hehe! ;-)

Cheers
Scoey!
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FollowupID: 432331

Follow Up By: Willem - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 14:21

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 14:21
Ahhh Rosco me mate......Where have you been?

Methinks you may be better off staying out of legal matters unless you have the "Knowledge".......lolol

Still driving the old Landy?

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FollowupID: 432372

Follow Up By: Rosco - Qld - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 14:31

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 14:31
Lurkin 'round Wills, lurkin 'round.
You're probably right tho ... Knowledge and Rosco is a bit of an oxymoron.

Yeah .. the old Landie still .... hasn't died yet or busted a diff or blown an engine.

At least I am comfortable in the knowledge ... (sh1t ... there's that word again) that it'll most likely happen sooner rather than later ... it's a sure bet, based upon all the other "knowledge" within this hallowed forum.

.... ;-))

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FollowupID: 432375

Reply By: Member - Brian H (QLD) - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 09:28

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 09:28
Oh I admit I should of checked but after a couple of year???.......... and as Rocoe quite nicely put it in QLD its the seller responsibility and Rosco if i did and its still in my name what then I get no rego papers in two years one assumes all is fine?

DOT have no change of details so no name, and I don't, still back in a status quo lol i can see this is going to cost some $$$ or i'll be eating jail food cause i will not pay for somethings thats not my fault.

Oh well sent letter to Traffice Camera Office see what happens

Brian
AnswerID: 176280

Follow Up By: j100 - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 09:58

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 09:58
Brian

On my QLD registration papers which come with the rego sticker it says "Registration is not proof of ownership" or words to that effect

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FollowupID: 432307

Follow Up By: Rosco - Qld - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 10:34

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 10:34
Sorry mate. If my memory serves me well. The papers have 3 coloured copies ... 1 for DOT (to me lodged by you), 1 for the buyer, and you retain the last for your records. It is for the very reason you have been nabbed, albeit incorrectly, that it's in your interests to make sure you lodge the transfer papers.

It would appear this is not the case in this instance. I think you should pursue the aspect of not receiving any rego renewals as it must be registered to someone, or they would also stick you with towing an unregistered trailer on a public road.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 432312

Reply By: Member - Brian H (QLD) - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 09:52

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 09:52
Just checked with DOT and its the buyers responsibility to lodge the transfer of details and the seller keeps part B in case the buyer fails to do it. So now its 2 years later I don't have Part B and as they say nothing they can do it will remain in my name until I get the details from the person I sold it to LOL oh i'm getting a headache lol.

So what ever he does I wear LOL go figure

HO HUM

Brian

AnswerID: 176285

Reply By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 10:52

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 10:52
O'Shaughnessy's law: Murphy was a bloody optimist..................
AnswerID: 176292

Reply By: Scoey (QLD) - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 11:34

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 11:34
Sorry about the long Cut & Paste but this may help....

From S114 of the Transport Operations (Road Use Management) Act 1995 QLD available here

START PASTE

(3) It is a defence to a camera detected offence for a person to prove that—
(a) the person was not the driver of the vehicle at the time the offence happened; and
(b) the person—
(i) has notified the commissioner or chief executive of the name and address of the person in charge of the vehicle at the time the offence happened; or
(ii) has notified the commissioner or chief executive that the person did not know and could not, with reasonable diligence, have ascertained the name and address of the person in charge of the vehicle at the time the offence happened.

(4) The person must notify the commissioner or chief executive about the matters specified in subsection (3)(b)(i), or the matters specified in subsections (3)(b)(ii) and (6), in a statutory declaration.

(5) The defence under subsection (3) is not available unless notice under subsection (3)(b)(i) or (ii) is given to the commissioner or chief executive by the person within 28 days of the first given of—
(a) written notice from the commissioner or chief executive to the person alleging a camera-detected offence; or
(b) an infringement notice under the State Penalties Enforcement Act 1999.

(6) For subsection (3)(b)(ii) a person must prove that—
(a) at the time the offence happened, the person—
(i) exercised reasonable control over the vehicle’s use; and
(ii) had in place a reasonable way of finding out the name and address of the person in charge of the vehicle at any given time having regard to—
(A) the number of drivers; and
(B) the amount and frequency of use; and
(C) whether the vehicle was driven for business or private use; and
(b) after the offence happened, the person made proper search and enquiry to ascertain the name and address of the person in charge of the vehicle at the time the offence happened.

(7) Subsection (6) does not apply if the person is able to prove that at the time the offence happened the vehicle—
(a) was stolen or illegally taken; or
(b) had already been sold or otherwise disposed of.

END PASTE

So from what I can see, your only hiccup is subsection 6 but in your case, according to subsection 7, subsection 6 doesn't apply! :-D

Happy Days!

Hope this helps!
Scoey!
AnswerID: 176300

Reply By: Member - Brian H (QLD) - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 13:38

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 13:38
Thanks for that ............. I will sit and read that again LOL ......... I got lost after START PASTE lol to many sad beers lol

I went to my local police station today as i know most of them through work and one officer said he would put it on thier computer as a vehicle (trailer) of interest. Basiclly the driver will be pulled over and questioned.

I was joking with him and I said if everyone says its mine maybe i should report it stolen but that would open up a whole new can of worms.

He filled out the report hits the go button and OPPPPSS he said, its now down as a stolen vehicle ......... FA%K i say all i could do was laugh, he swears and sees the funny side and laughs, says its ok if they pick it up they will contact me (police officer) and I will sort it out from there.

At least i can see light at the end of the tunnel. Next step court.

Brian

AnswerID: 176341

Follow Up By: Scoey (QLD) - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 14:01

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 14:01
haha! Yeah sorry! But basically it means that...

You weren't the operator of the vehicle (and can prove it - you were in another state) and can't reasonably name the operator of the vehicle (it was 3 years ago and the bloke you sold it to could have onsold again).

So long as you inform the Commisioner of the above within 28 days from the infringement notice date and you can prove that you had actually disposed of the trailer in 2003 - statements from witneses etc - you have your defence and they're stuffed! You win! ;-)

Have another coupla beers mate! :-D
Cheers
Scoey
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FollowupID: 432366

Reply By: Grungle - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 15:35

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 15:35
How can a trailer speed? It is the car that is speeding. What if they had a boat on the roofrack which had a registration number on the side and the police tried to book you for speeding cause they can read the boat rego but not the cars. A court would throw it out in a second.

Also they obviously haven't said anything about the trailer being unregistered (which it should be after 3 years since being sold) so someone must have paid it. Ask the DOT who is on their records for paying the rego as usually some form of details are recorded.
AnswerID: 176383

Reply By: arthurking83 - Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 23:36

Friday, Jun 02, 2006 at 23:36
How much did you sell the trailer for?

If it was more than $150 then report it as stolen and not registered.....se how quickly they find it then!!

Pay the $150, get your trailer back.....sell it again (to recoup the cost of the fine!)...this time do it properly.....and smile..... as the toilet seat scum that hadn't originally done the right thing now has a criminal record (and no tailer) winces and grits his teeth!!!

Like they say on the TV......."Priceless!"

(I wish it'd be that easy.....*sigh*.....)

I would be seriously tempted to do such a thing to someone like that!!!

I learned the hard way too......no matter how nice they seem.....never trust them with the plates!
20 years or so ago.....I sold a mini and "kindly" left the plates so that the guy didn't get pulled up, driving without them, on is way home.....turned up some years later on an abandoned car!! I'd handed my papers in the next business day....so I was covered OK when the police came calling......

hope it all works out!!
AnswerID: 176480

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