Nissan & biodiesel

............and you wouldn't wanna go sticking it in that 3L or yours Truckster, eh????!!!!!!!!!!!! hahahahahahaha

Talking to a trucky mate in Broken Hill he didn't have a good word to say about the bio-fuels. Had recieved some unfiltered fuel even to the extent of being black and having chop bones in the bottom of the tankful. Had the supplier take it back again. Being BH it would probably come through your supplier Bill. I won't mention the SA** brand but that was what he told me. When it was in the tank it blocked the filters and they took extras for every trip. It also had to go through faster to keep the power up to the motor. He would take a lot of convincing to try it again.

but i would in the other 1.2ltr :P

There are a lot of rumours about crap Biodiesel be it from SAFF, or elsewhere ...

Most of them are not true. Some have a resemblence to the truth, but are still far from it.

I am very confident about SAFF fuel quality - I have used it for 6 mo and 60Ks about 70% of the time.

They have had one contamination incident in their history (not their fault directly, except it took them too long to notice) a long time ago. I'm sure they regret it. I'm sure it won't happen again.

Ciao for now
Andrew.

hi jeff i was wondering if you make your own and if so what recipe do you use (looked already at the bio diesel web site) and if so do you have any photos of your set up

Regards BigFella

No I'm buying it from a guy who manufactuers and sells his own in Perth. You can stop in at his business and fill up or he delivers 200L drums to your door.

how much is he charging for the 200l

Hey Jeff,

Where in Perth do we get it and how much.

Mick

I've done myself a disservice by promoting this guy too much so I won't give his name out again, it's in the archices if you want to have a look through. Due to demand and supply my price has now gone from $1.10 per litre to $1.20 - free delivery.

Because of the nature of Biodiesel, it has up to 10 times the lubricating properties of petro diesel. With this in mind, why would it effect the rotary or common rail style pumps from lubricating their high pressured components?

Good work Paul, nice reply.

From what I have read, some people might be out of a job if we all get to use it.
But then again we've test in our old Isuzus and the boys are saying no problems after 12 months/ 40ks. Imagine all the old Toyotas, etc if they would have been able to use biodiesel the amount of injector pumps not having to be repaired.
MY 2 cents worth tonight, High fuel prices are giving me the s""ts.
No cheers tonight Bruce

Paul,

This is plain FUD: fear uncertainty and dread - what are the alleged massive failures you speak of? You are not arguing a position at all, nor making a recommendation - you see a place for Biodiesel, but can't say where.

For sure - Biodiesel can be made in my backyard or yours - in fact, in your kitchen for that matter. It will have varying properties - just as diesel from fossil fuels has varying properties. In the case of Biodiesel, this is affected by the feedstock out of which it is produced.

So, I don't expect anyone to warrant an engine or injector when I am using my home brew (although they couldn't be expected to be able to work it out).

However, I don't use my home brew.

All retail Biodiesel in Australia complies with the Fuel Standard (Biodiesel) Determination 2003 - there is a big financial incentive for this to happen - a rebate!

The standard, especially the testing regime is a higher standard in the applicable details than any petro-diesel sold in Australia.

Thankfully the commercial Biodiesel suppliers warrant their product, in the same way that engine failure caused by crap petro-diesel from the major suppliers (it has happened to me - the crap fuel, not the engine failure) is a problem for the supplier and not the vehicle manufacturer.

All diesel sold in France, for instance though, contains 5% Biodiesel!!! even though it still complies with the Diesel std you mentioned.

Which fuel standard equipment has been developed for is a little irrelevant - for one thing, many of the vehicles and especially the injectors, are older than the standard. For another, just because they were developed for one fuel standard doesn't mean that there will be problems using some other fuel.

The common position you mention is rather irrelevant too, because it dates back to 2000 - 6 years ago, when it said:

The world's biggest diesel fuel injector equipment (FIE) makers -- Bosch, Delphi (formerly Lucas), Denso, and Stanadyne -- just unveiled new "common position statements" warning of denials of warranty claims if fuels fail to meet certain quality standards.

NOTE THE LAST PHRASE. For sure, if they knew of the massive failures you allege, they would have made a very big point of it - and they haven't.

Sure - if there are quality standards issues, denial of warranty claims is understandable, but they will not deny warranty claims just because you used Biodiesel.

There is plenty of research indicating that Biodiesel has no detrimental effect on fuel system components. Major companies like Scania and Mercedes Benz are prepared to fully support the use of Biodiesel in their vehicles in Scandinavia and other European markets ... and guess where they get their injectors from - the same bin that supplied them to all sorts of other manufacturers.

There's always some risk in the world ... but worrying about Biodiesel's effects on my engine is not a high order problem.

Ciao for now
Andrew.

Well said Andrew.

They are going to have to hurry up and get educated because Gull Petrollium over here in the west (quite a resonable sized player in the local market) has been selling B20 at the bowser for a couple of months now...

Yeah, I have been filling up with B20 in Bunbury. (its definitely cut down on my smoke)

I agree Gulls offering is a commercial start, but until we gett a few B100's across WA from Gull or others large chains, it will take a while for the publics perception (this forum not included) to change from the back yard fish and ship shop alternate fuel.

It WILL happen eventually...I Just think it will take a while.

I'd love to make it if i could, or even source it from ur guy in Perth. At the mo neither is practical.

Rev

I think it will be very difficult to legally prove that someone has been using B20 in order to void their vehicle warranty. In fact I doubt that they can even void a vehicle warranty as I'm pretty sure that comes under the consumables act which is why manufactuers can't void warranties for using Ryco filters or using a non genuine ink in your computer's printer. Gull's B20 meets Australian fuel standards, so they are really up bleep creek IMHO. They can say till the cows come home that it'll void your warranty, however I doubt it would hold up in a court of law.

As I said, I think these manufactuer's and more importantly the un-educated representatives of these organisations had better get educated fast, otherwise they are going to start looking pretty dumb in front of a lot of people by making claims about bio fuels that are simply not true.

People are already looking for someone to blame for high fuel prices and conspiracy theories are ripe. People jumping onto the "oh don't use bio fuels cos they are bad cos we don't really know why but we'll make some crap up to spread doubt in people's minds" are going to be the first ones knocked off their perches by the blame hungry public.

And for those people with the opinion of "I won't use biodiesel no matter what the cost". There is of course the personal monetary cost, but what about the cost to the environment for our children? What about the cost to local farmers?

My children's future is enough reason for me without the other advantages of using a cheaper costing, recycled, renewable and cleaner burning fuel that's better for my engine.

Jeff, this is quoted from the above response by Paul from Denco Diesel &Turbo.

" While some biodiesel fuels seem to be okay, we have seen massive failures as a result of some of the so called biodiesels "

While I am in no way suggesting you don't know what you are talking about, seeing that Paul works in the industry, I think the above statement should be a warning to drivers of all EFI and common-rail TD engines.

The question still remains, and it seems that you cannot answer it.........

What is the long term effect of using biodiesel, if any, good or bad, on my 3.0 TDi patrol?

Secondly, I dissagree with your response that it would be impossible to prove that a car has been run on biodiesel. And I also have no doubt that any manufacturer or warranty provider could void a warranty, mainly because the use of anything other that the word "diesel" does not appear in the owners manual / service handbook / any other written information in relation to my car! And their ability to get out of it is better than your or my abilty to prove they can't.

I'm glad there are people like yourself who are prepared to go out on a limb and try this new fuel, and I look forward to hearing about your results, good or bad, but, selling the product as if there is absolutely nothing wrong with it when you cannot categorically present scientific evedence one way or the other is wrong.

I hope you are right, believe me.

Cheers,

MUZZ

Muzz, I mean no disrespect to Paul's knowledge of the topic, but I do not know how long he has been researching Biodiesel fuels and it's effects on engines.

Personally, I have been researching it for nearly 2 years now. There is an absolute wealth of information on the long term effects of running B100 in unmodified diesel engines, just do a google search. There are many, many, many fleets running B100 in europe, Australia and America without issues, in fact many claiming better results than running Petro diesel in economy, power and maintenance issues (wear and tear on motors that have been pulled apart have shown less wear on those running biodiesel than those running petro desiel.

I do not have first hand experience with a ZD30 engine running on Biodiesel as I myself have not read or experienced it personally. So no I cannot tell you the long term effects on one of these motors, to be honest is the ZD30 going to last long enough to worry about long term effects?! (tounge in cheek).

I do not know a great deal about ZD30's injection system, but cannot see why a extremely complicated electronically controlled high performance CAT engine could run on it and a ZD30 couldn't, but that's just an assumption of mine.

I do know that my engine is EFI and has sensors left right and centre, including air temp, fuel temp, turbo pressure, throttle position, crank angle, fuel pressure, oil pressure etc etc etc and has no problems after 800L of B100 going through it non-stop.

I said nearly impossible. How would a manufactuer proove it? It would require some pretty decent lab equipment I should think. I doubt you're local Nissan dealership has access to this gear, nor would bother to go to those extremes.

Gull's B20 meets Australian standards for diesel fuel, ergo it IS diesel fuel. It is sold as diesel fuel from the bowser by a reputable fuel supplier and therefore would make a pretty strong case against any potential claim to void a warranty by using it in my mind.

I would be interested to add this information of Paul's into my collection of research on Biofuels too. Could he supply some information on these "massive failures"? Maybe some photo's with an explination of exactly what component failed massivly and why the Biofuel was to blame?

So far the only failure's I've heard of caused by biofuels were rubber seals being ruined. Of course all ULSD (ultra low sulphur diesel) will cause these problems and seeings as that's the only petro diesel being sold now days it really is a non-issue...