OK Had Enough

Submitted: Friday, Jun 09, 2006 at 23:11
ThreadID: 34783 Views:2130 Replies:8 FollowUps:20
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Hi All, have noticed again for the third time now grease on the inside of front drivers side wheel rim. Diff oil leaking into hubs then leaking out between backing plate and discs. Im getting sick of replacing the axle seal. Last time about 3 weeks ago been used once since in 4wd and already has leaked again. Have replaced brake pads last time as they were stuffed from the grease at $80 for pads and $110 for knuckle kit from don kyatt is starting to bother me. First 1 (axle seal) was toyota, second was don kytte, third time I thought I'd go genuine again to make sure and same result. Last time was done by my mate who is a mechanic incase I was doing some thing wrong and still back to square one again.WHY would this be continuing to happen.Diff breather is clear not blocked.Everything was even done up to toyota specs eg wheel bearing nut etc,axle seemed to be sitting central not leaning or being forced to one side,only thing I can think of is the axle has been scored where the axle seal runs but looked ok to me and mechanic. What other possible causes would be creating this problem. Wife is getting really bleep off of me wanting $200 every month for the same problem, any advice or help would be greatly appreciated to solve this annoying and expensive problem. Thankyou Regards Steve M
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Reply By: Marn - Friday, Jun 09, 2006 at 23:40

Friday, Jun 09, 2006 at 23:40
Have you tried new wheel bearings? I dont know if they come as part of the seal kit or not but i have heard of worn wheel bearings causing leakage problems??? Just a thought.:)
AnswerID: 177768

Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 15:04

Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 15:04
Hi Marn, yep newwheel bearings put in the first time when it was leaking and there was nothing wrong with the old ones so have kept them for spares. Regards Steve M
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Reply By: Bros 1 - Friday, Jun 09, 2006 at 23:48

Friday, Jun 09, 2006 at 23:48
Stephen M,
Groove worn in axle where seal sits?
Cheers,
Bros.
Work is the curse of the down and out bludger.

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AnswerID: 177769

Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 15:06

Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 15:06
Hi Bros, yeah thats the path I'm leaning towards, does this require new axle or can my old one be sent away to be repaired (built back up to the required specs etc) ?? Regards Steve M
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FollowupID: 433957

Follow Up By: banjodog - Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 16:09

Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 16:09
If the axle is worn where the seal touches you can install a a href="http://www.chicago-rawhide.com.au/Products/speedi.htm">Speedi-sleeve

Most auto place will have them or at least get one for you.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 17:07

Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 17:07
Thanks Banjodog much appreciated. Regards Steve M
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Follow Up By: Bros 1 - Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 18:46

Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 18:46
Stephen M,
I had just come back from having my tie rods renewed when i read your post. The mob who done the job said that oil and grease were leaking from around the swivel hub. How come asks i as they had renewed everything in there 4/5 years ago. They said that when they did the job that there was miniscule grooving on the axle so did not replace the axle. They reckon that the grooving has now got to the stage where a new seal is only a temporary fix. Tried speedie sleeves on tailshaft (both ends) and fixed leaks. Don't know about putting them on an axle.
How old is your vehicle. Mine is 21 year old cruiser, so probably why things are starting to show their age.
Cheers,
Bros.
Work is the curse of the down and out bludger.

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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 23:27

Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 23:27
Hi there Bros1, yeah myn is 89 model 17 years old have thought a few times of upgrading to the 97/03 3litre turbo diesel but I like my old truck, has never let me down and not keen on getting a newer one due to all the electronic crap but sooner or later I will have to as thats the way there all going, am going to get a wheel alighnment next week and see if that is a possible cause, there is a reply here about a brass bush that I havnt seen or read about so will chase that up to see what it is about then if thats not the problem I will get the axle looked at although I have just spoken to the mechanic tonight and he reckons there was no scoring on the axle.Thankyou all this information is appreciated as I can try and track down the problem. Regards Steve M
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FollowupID: 434028

Reply By: Muzzgit (WA) - Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 00:00

Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 00:00
Are you sure it's oily grease and not just grease getting past the swivel hub wiper pads? Maybe wrong grease ?

I dunno, you probably know more than me, but that's all I can think of.

Either that or the diff housing has been bent out of shape [ twisted/warped ]
AnswerID: 177773

Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 15:10

Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 15:10
hi there Muzzgit, definately right grease and definately the oil from diff leaking into hub as when it was pulled apart last time I had to put ice cream container under hub as when the mechanic pulled the hub off it ran out like thickned cream, mixtuer of diff oil and grease, starting to really bleep me off, I dont mind paying to fix things as we know it is all wear and tear but to keep hapening is annoying the bleep out of me and the bank balance. Regards Steve M
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Reply By: Peter 2 - Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 07:48

Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 07:48
A few possibilities,
1/ bent diff housing usually more likely on the (long) LHS,
2/ crook spindle bearings allowing the swivel hub to move around on the end of the housing, this would usually be obvious if there was that much slop.
3/ Drive axle bent slightly which is flexing the seal
4/ Drive axle scored/grooved where seal runs, try inserting seal a bit less so that it runs on a different section.
5/ Too much oil in diff ;-))

loose wheel bearings will usually only fatigue the hub seals

It isn't grease from the wheel bearings/hub which is coming out past the rear hub seal and then getting on the brakes is it? The outer inner hub seal (the big one under the spindle/backing plate with the Y section lip) bolts should be replaced regularly as they wear quickly if the surface on the hub is grooved or there is grit present. The inner hub seal will also wear rapidly if there is grit present
also check that the drain hole between the spindle/backing plate/knuckle is clear as any oil that seeps out should dribble out the bottom rather than being forced out onto the disc.
Peter
1996 Oka Motorhome

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AnswerID: 177786

Follow Up By: Member - Blue (VIC) - Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 11:35

Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 11:35
With point 4, if it's a lip-seal, put it in backwards, this will seat the lip on a different line. Have done this on motorbike axles until a replacement could be sourced, works well.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 15:28

Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 15:28
Everything new and done to specs how could I overfill diff oil is that a possibility as I just drain refill through bolt hole (filler) then when it starts to run out I pull out tube whack bolt back in ?? Definatly diff oil and hub grease mixed together can smell the diff oil and when the hub was pulled off last time had to put ice cream container under neath was like thickned cream running out, I 'm leaning more towards axle being scored is this fixible without buying a new axle or can that be repaired ( built back up to specs) I imagine would be cheaper as long as its right. I like to do things write the first time 3 times in the last 6 months is ridiculous as you would agree. Regards Steve M
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Reply By: STEVE069 - Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 08:20

Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 08:20
Hi Steve, I would get a wheel alighment check, if the camber is in the negative on that side you have a bent diff housing causing all the problems.

STEVE
AnswerID: 177792

Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 15:37

Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 15:37
Interesting point there Steve, this has never had a wheel alighnment done even when I had the new springs put in a few months back and was never told to get one although I did raise this point a few months ago when vehicle seemed to be wondering a lot but I had the I think called drag link adjusted had 2 split pins either end and could be adjusted with flat bladed screw driver either end then split pins put back in seemed to make a huge differance to steering although I did notice that the steering wheel was a bit to the left and out of centre after doing that but the tyres dont seem to be scrubing out. Did have it booked in to get done with pro axle but have been flat out lately so would even the wheel alighnment its self would that have any effect on the axle seal leaking maybe pulling on axle ?? it does pull to the left very slightly since adjusting the drag link but this was only adjusted last time so still had leaking problems prior to this been adjusted. Hope thia makes sense trying to make it as clear as possible. Regards Steve M
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Sunday, Jun 11, 2006 at 13:01

Sunday, Jun 11, 2006 at 13:01
Hi there steve069, are you actually saying that the diff is bent due to a wheel alighment and this can be rectified by getting one done, or are you saying the diff housing is warped twisted and stuffed and will require new diff housing. Please excuse my ignorance on this matter but I didnt realize a diff could be twisted out of shape due to an incorrect alighnment, so the general consensus is that by getting a wheel alighnment done will pull the diff back into correct shape/position, ??? and be the possible cause for this oil leak. ??? Regards Steve M
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Follow Up By: STEVE069 - Sunday, Jun 11, 2006 at 13:13

Sunday, Jun 11, 2006 at 13:13
Hi steve, No a weel alignment will not fix the oil leak but it will tell you if the diff housing is bent or not. If it is bent you can get them straightened for about $350 in WA but you need to take it out and strip it down to nothing. The main areas where they bend is where the ball is welded onto the tube wich puts the axle out of alignment with the seal. Hope this makes things clearer.

Steve
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Sunday, Jun 11, 2006 at 13:22

Sunday, Jun 11, 2006 at 13:22
Thanks for that Steve at least I will know once its done where I'm at, didnt think I could be that lucky to have an easy fix if thats the problem. I imagine there would be places in Sydney that would also be able to fix it if required. Will ask that question when and if needed too. Thanks for that will get that done next week if they can fit me in then I will know, might have to have a look at that brass bush maybe that is worn and causing the problem spoke to mechanic this morning about that. Will let every one know when and if I hopefully solve this very annoying problem, I suppose my'ns only minor compared to those nissan 3Litre going bang and up for 20k, I reckon i'd put a match to it if I had that problem LOL. Regards Steve M
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FollowupID: 434081

Reply By: Frank_Troopy - Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 14:22

Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 14:22
Hi Steve,
Have you replaced the steering knuckle bearings? I suppose you have because I believe they come in the knuckle kit.

If not, it may be worthwhile to do so. If an off-centre set has been fitted to make a camber/caster correction, they also cause the axle to be slightly off-centre in the seal. My mechanic has spoken of cases where this has caused axle seals to leak.

Cheers Frank.
AnswerID: 177825

Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 15:41

Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 15:41
Thanks Frank maybe that will be my first port of call to go and get a wheel alighment done before I start to pull apart again, never thought that would have any thing to do with that, but makes sense as in my reply above this one. And yes new knuckle bearngs were replaced as you said part of the kit. Thank you Regards Steve M
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Reply By: Andrew-rodeo - Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 18:53

Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 18:53
Hey mate! has the brass bush in the outer stub axle been replaced? This bush usually isn't part of the repair kit. But it wears and allows the axle to drop down to hard on the inner seal. Also if the cr is jacked up to refil the diff and you fill it up to the filler plug level it is over full, the car need to be on level ground. Hope this helps!!
AnswerID: 177852

Follow Up By: Tony J - Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 22:04

Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 22:04
But if he has raised suspension, the diff has rolled and the filler plug will be "lower" than standard. Jacking the front of car up would bring it back to "standard". Maybe???
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FollowupID: 434022

Follow Up By: Billowaggi - Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 22:47

Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 22:47
I am with you Andrew that brass bush is a common wear point and needs to be checked when replacing inner axle oil seals. Toyota recognised the prob in the 78.79 series and replaced it with a needle roller bearing. Th new bush after being pressed into the stub axle may have to be reemed to size.
Regards Ken.
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FollowupID: 434025

Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 23:19

Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 at 23:19
Hi there Andrew,no I have never replaced any brass bush and no I have 2 inch lift which has been in since new so I just roll in under neath to do the diffs no jacking required, will follow up on that brass bush thou dont remember seeing anything about that in the gregorys manual so will check that out, thanks for that will give me something else to the probabal cause and what to look for. Regards Steve M
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Reply By: Mudness - Sunday, Jun 11, 2006 at 07:39

Sunday, Jun 11, 2006 at 07:39
G'day, It's already been said but I would recommend a wheel alignment 1st. I had the same problem with my hilux years ago, after repacing seal for the second time I had a close look at the housing. You could actually see the bend. (long side as already stated). Good luck
AnswerID: 177899

Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Sunday, Jun 11, 2006 at 12:56

Sunday, Jun 11, 2006 at 12:56
Hi there Mudness, thankyou for that seems to be the consenus in the replys that a wheel alighnment could be the problem, will have to wait till tuesday before I can book it in. Regards Steve M
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FollowupID: 434072

Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Sunday, Jun 11, 2006 at 13:04

Sunday, Jun 11, 2006 at 13:04
Hi there Mudness, are you actually saying that the diff is bent due to a wheel alighment and this can be rectified by getting one done, or are you saying the diff housing is warped twisted and stuffed and will require new diff housing. Please excuse my ignorance on this matter but I didnt realize a diff could be twisted out of shape due to an incorrect alighnment, so the general consensus is that by getting a wheel alighnment done will pull the diff back into correct shape/position, ??? and be the possible cause for this oil leak. ??? Regards Steve M
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FollowupID: 434074

Follow Up By: Mudness - Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 12:51

Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 12:51
G'day Steve, A wheel alignment is the best way to find out if it is bent. Mine was that bad you could actually see it when you looked close enough. If it is bent the only fix is to have the housing straightened or replaced. Cheers & good luck
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FollowupID: 434248

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