Submitted: Sunday, Jun 11, 2006 at 21:42
ThreadID: 34835 Views:2733 Replies:18 FollowUps:16
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Just found out that i"m just a NUMBER!! at a bank i've been with for 25YRS!!.

Put in a application to borrow funds to build a house on a block of land in the central west, & got rejected!. Other assetts cover 80% of it ,But oh no!! ,Your financials last year are down to previous, ( so is'nt every self employed persons to??) Because I don't fit in their SQUARE they brushed me aside.. Our area manager was surprised to., Made him look bad as well, (as far as customer relations go) He thought there would be no problem, It was credit control that had the final say. Why have a area manager if they can't make a pre approved decision??. ANY ONE had the same deal?.

Regards Axle.
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Reply By: Doggy Tease - Sunday, Jun 11, 2006 at 21:50

Sunday, Jun 11, 2006 at 21:50
Been there, done that. Banks are a waste of time nowadays.
We use a finance broker over here in the west.
Bit of a plug for him, tho not relate to his work in any way other than a satisfied customer....
Stokeld Finance.
Willeton, Perth.
He's been good for us at getting good finance, and takes alot of the hassle out of trying to do it yourself.


AnswerID: 178010

Reply By: Footloose - Sunday, Jun 11, 2006 at 22:09

Sunday, Jun 11, 2006 at 22:09
Years ago had a similar experience. Went to borrow and got told I had plenty of assets, but where was the cash ? Told them if I had it then why would I borrow ? Walked down the road to another bank, changed my account to them and never tried to borrow from a bank again. In fact I only use banks through my credit union these days.
AFIK the banks are edgy as a little while ago money was relatively cheap and they wanted everyone and anyone to borrow. Now they are finding that with inflation and rate rises and the cost of fuel, they are over exposed to people who stand a good chance to default. Plus there's a lot of credit card debt out there. Whoaa says credit control. How the heck can we pay the CEO this year if we go downhill too?
Yep, been there, done that.

AnswerID: 178013

Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Sunday, Jun 11, 2006 at 22:20

Sunday, Jun 11, 2006 at 22:20
Feel like abandoning ship, But are they all the same?? Have to keep a business a/c somewhere, IT just makes me MAD!!.
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Follow Up By: Member - Bware (Tweed Valley) - Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 00:01

Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 00:01
Don't you just harken? to the days when people lived in smaller communities and new the bank manager and decisions were made on your character etc(obviously not if you're dodgey)(perhaps that was only in the movies?).
FollowupID: 434190

Follow Up By: Footloose - Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 00:07

Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 00:07
"Attention, attention all cashiers"..."Number 7350267 is dodgy, I repeat; he's dodgy !!"
FollowupID: 434193

Reply By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Jun 11, 2006 at 22:19

Sunday, Jun 11, 2006 at 22:19
me too 00579 here
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AnswerID: 178014

Reply By: Muzzgit (WA) - Sunday, Jun 11, 2006 at 23:15

Sunday, Jun 11, 2006 at 23:15
Mate, keep your current accounts if the convenience suits you and go thru a broker.

Years ago I had a car loan which was costing me $115 a week. Probably not a lot now, but being in my early twenties and renting a house it was quite a bit for me. Anyhow, my girlfriend of the time did the big splittsville and I was left paying the rent and my bank ballance started going backwards, so I sold the 4X4.

I paid out the loan, got a girl to share the house and enjoyed being single again for a while, then I decided I wanted another car, not a 4X4, just a car.

Went to the same bank, been with them since I was a small child, my employer banked with them, I had the same job 4 years, never had a late payment or overdrawn day in my life. No credit cards, no debts........ Would they lend me the money?


I walked to the front counter and closed my account. I didn't swear, yell, or say much at all except the teller asked why I was closing my account, I told her the story and asked her to tell the manager.

I went to a car yard and got finance and a car the next morning and havn't looked back.
AnswerID: 178020

Follow Up By: Waynepd (NSW) - Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 09:30

Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 09:30
Yep i also got sick of the crap I was getting from my bank. They used to be a building society when i first opened an account with them at the age of about 8. Once they became a bank they started with the fees, the service dropped markedly and they couldn't wait for your pay and a written cheque to mistime so they could hit you with the present again fee of $35 back then.

So one day I just went to my work Credit Union and organised to have my considerable mortgage moved over to them, had my pay deposited into there and said so long to banks forever. If more of us did that sort of thing they might start to take notice.

Remember they need us too.....just like leeches need a host....
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Reply By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Sunday, Jun 11, 2006 at 23:37

Sunday, Jun 11, 2006 at 23:37
Axle, I think one of the things that is important to banks is to maximise the number of "products" you are using. Your status goes up between five and seven. I can remember a few years back we paid out one car and financed another. The bank noticed we had paid out the former but not that we had the latter. One of the guys phoned to say we had reduced the number of products we were using. I did correct him.

Perhaps you need to talk to Roachie, he has a bit to do with that sort of thing - Banking I mean;-)

One thing I found helps is if you can get to a position of providing a reference for people - even bank managers need them occasionally.

AnswerID: 178024

Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Sunday, Jun 11, 2006 at 23:59

Sunday, Jun 11, 2006 at 23:59
I know what your saying.!! But the thing is they offered and secured a deal on equiptment ( earthmoving) 12mths previous to this saga ,payments not a drama, Equity in that deal was all their way , and they have just ABOUT FACED!!! .
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Follow Up By: Member - Bware (Tweed Valley) - Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 01:07

Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 01:07
I sympathize mate, financial dealings are just about the most pathetic, stressful and personal situations we have to deal with. Someone judges you on your financial situation and it's totally irrelevant to your individual situation. And when I say 'someone' I mean a whole bunch of statistics fed into a computer. Yet it decides whether you can start your new business or get the new car or furnish your home or even get a credit card. At the end of the day, you need to use them. About 10 years ago, just before we left Sydney, we approached the NAB, which we had both banked with and have credit cards with, for a loan for the Troopie we ended up buying. We needed this, we needed that, we needed to have a loan record to get a loan. Saying that we had disposable income and saved money was not good enough; we needed a debt to borrow money! At the time we were bringing home $1000 between us and only paid $250 rent (in Bondi, '97).
So, we got finance through the car yard and it cost us more in interest. But we vowed never to give them anything more than we have to. If we ever win lotto we will take our money elsewhere, we stick with them because their fee structure suits us, when they ring us we tell them how we feel. We have taken our credit cards elsewhere LOL
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 22:15

Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 22:15
With over 35 years of "service" in the nab, I guess I might have a bit of "inside knowledge". In my opinion it still comes down to the person you're dealing with. There are some proper w@nkers that are employed by all banks. I know more than my fare share. The fact of the matter is some blokes can look at a set of figures (P&L + B/Sheet) and make what they claim is an informed decision about a 'deal'.

I've been to several training courses over the years where one of the things they've done is try to work out what type of personality etc each of us has. Most of the bankers that I've been on courses with (and in general) fit into the "blue" category. The blue category means that are driven by facts and figures and logic. I, on the other hand, belong to the 'green' category (this ONLY relates to this type of 'test'......nothing to do with my political persuasions!!!!!!). The 'green' category consists of people who are more 'touchy/feely' and are not so prone to being guided solely by figures, but more by personality etc. This is very true in my case. I could look at a set of figures for a fortnight and still wouldn't be able to make a decision whether to grant a loan or not. I'm the sort of 'dipstick' who has to get out and see the client's operation first hand and get comfortable with the stature of the person I'm dealing with. By all means, I'll then ask to see some figures. If the figures for the most recent year aren't too crash-hot but previous years have been sound, then it's time to delve a bit deeper and sus-out (sorry, that's a technical term...hahaha) what's caused the downturn. If it's because you're trying to flog digital watches (which are sooooo "eighties"), then it's probably time (pun intended) you changed strategies and looked for a better way to make a quid (without the banks help in all liklihood!!!). If it's simply a case that you suffered because of increased fuel prices affecting your bottom line, then that raises more questions. Why didn't you raise YOUR prices? If it was because you had a certain amount of fixed price contracts, have these now finished/soon to finish? Etc Etc.

I guess I'm starting to rabbit on a bit too much. What I'm trying to get at is that if you are fortunate enough to strike a banker who has the time and inclination to get to know you AND if your business is genuinely worthy of continued support of the organisation, then there is no need for you NOT to get the loan you need.

As I said earlier, there are far too many bean counters in all banks. The nab is trying to get away from this mentality. I can assure you we have seen the most radical changes to policy of my career in recent is the new Board's way of winning back market share etc. Sponsoring the Comm Games, the Auskick program, cervical cancer research, soccer w/cup etc.....they're into everything to try to raise the profile. All that money spent on advertising would be a total waste if they didn't drastically alter the culture within. It's gunna take some of the old farts with horn-rimmed glasses a while to accept the change; but change they MUST. the soap-box now......time for a Bex and lie-down!!!!

Good luck

FollowupID: 434344

Reply By: Member - John R (NSW) - Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 07:10

Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 07:10
Axle, I can't comment on banks, as I've had over 20 years of excellent service from credit unions.

On the various services I've used, CU rates have been equal to or better than bank equivalent. And I have not paid a single cent in thieving bank fees.

The only negative comment I would make is that when we got our mortgage, we had to arrange some legwork in terms of building inspections, etc. The paperwork was a little more cumbersome, but hey - the actual cost of the mortgage was far less than If we'd gone through a bank. And we didn't get slugged an "application fee".

I'm sure some people will have had negative experiences with CU's. We havent! :-)

Shop around Axle.
AnswerID: 178034

Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 08:33

Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 08:33
Must be somethin valuable about the name John R. Did find a bit of a problem with the manager who has just switched to the CBA one gone to Sydney - lovely to look at but do you think she could do the detail of the paperwork. Has gone to NSW now so I can smile again ;-)
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Reply By: Peter 2 - Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 08:16

Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 08:16
Yep I've never borrowed money fom a bank, joined a credit union when I first started work over 30 years ago, been with them ever since, never had problems with car loans or personal loans an no fees!
AnswerID: 178037

Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 10:25

Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 10:25
Looks like credit unions are a lot more popular than i realised, will have a good look at things today!.
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Reply By: Brew69(SA) - Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 08:17

Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 08:17
Yep similar here.Wife been with same bank 20 + years and we couldn't borrow so we changed to another lender. i have been told the best time to apply for a loan is the last week of any month.
AnswerID: 178038

Reply By: - Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 09:49

Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 09:49
My bank just honoured a 5500 direct debit that came out of my account when there was only 300 in the account. I am pretty happy with that. They did charge me $38 because the money wasn't there, but i was happy to pay that. I actually rang up and asked about the $38 fee and what it was for, (i was still happy to pay it, because if they didn;t honour the 5500 i would have been stuffed.) anyway without me asking they offered to refund the $38, without me even asking.
Great stuff no complaints here from me?
AnswerID: 178043

Follow Up By: Member No 1- Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 10:44

Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 10:44
r u the bank manager:)
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Reply By: cokeaddict - Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 10:21

Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 10:21
Banks have us by the balls. This plan was implimented way back when credit cards were first introduced They already knew then where we would be today.

I run a debit card account, was with a credit union for ages, no fees and excellent service. Few months back they introduced fees.
some of the fees are as follows.....

withdraw money from the teller $2.00 fee
withdraw money from ATM (at the CU)... $2.00 fee.
use debit card to pay for fuel, shopping etc.... 50 cent fee (every time its used)

after the statement arrived, i owed them between 40-50 dollars a month in fees (MY MONEY) so i closed the account and found abeter alternative (st george bank)

last week received a letter from st george saying new fees as of 1st july. PLUS, my debit account MUST have a minimum of $3000,00 to keep the fees down to a minimum. NOT HAPPY.

Now im trying to get work to pay me in cash again so i dont need banks to steal my money, I'd rather be robbed than give it to them, but its an up hill battle trying to get work to pay me cash like the old days.
Soin all.....they control us very much and we allow it to happen. Shame the goernment does not look into this cause its a total rip off in my opinion.

AnswerID: 178046

Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 10:31

Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 10:31
Sounds like there ALL getting on the bandwagon with these bloody fees.

' cash under the pillow " Mate!.
FollowupID: 434236

Reply By: Member Boroma 604 - Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 10:56

Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 10:56
Mate "BANKS" only exist on the side of rivers, have now done so for a lot of years, those parasites that we all thought were pillars of the community are now all "FINANCE COMPANIES"
We were in business for 25 years & were also just a number, today they are only interested in looking after the Directors & Top Management, the so called shareholders rank last.
Go to a Credit Union or Building Society they still have a small soul. Have been with ours for many years now, canceled last so called BANK ACCOUNT about 5 years ago.
AnswerID: 178052

Reply By: Mr Fawlty - Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 15:12

Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 15:12
We were with a Credit Union (over 30 years) and all went well untill they merged with another one, or so they said. In truth they were taken over by the Bank of Adelaide and fees went through the roof....Changed to the Bendigo Bank, no fees except for 3rd party ATM's & the local manager actually knows my name.
My advice before you do too much would be to do a comparison of the fees you are going to be hit with because it's the fees that really are the crux of the matter these days. I like the Bendigo, seems to be run on a more personal level, much like banks used to be...
Looking forward to having Morning Tea soon to, they do that there... I thought it odd too last year driving around the country that all the disused Commonwealth Bank Buildings now seem to have a Bendigo Bank branch in them...Curious...
AnswerID: 178084

Reply By: brian - Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 21:00

Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 21:00
Axel,if you dont meet the banks std criteria look around or ask your broker fpr a LOW DOCUMENT OR NO DOCUMENT loan the interest rate is slightly higher but you can refinance out of them in a relatively short period of time designed for self employed and many others.These loans are offered widely if you need more info just ask.....credet unions are generally better than banks............
AnswerID: 178144

Reply By: Motherhen - Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 22:46

Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 22:46
Axle, i won't get on my soapbox with my pets hate - b a n k s here, but -

Being self employed, you may not have superannuation, but if you do (or your partner?), you will most likely be eligible for Member's Equity; investing people's superannuation in other people's housing. Low costs, low interest, reliable.

A few years ago my son got a quote for his home loan from the local bank (which wicked institute shall remain unnamed here); I showed him that Member's Equity was half a percent cheaper - that's nothing, he said. So i showed him on my computer that it was $40,000 difference, without taking into consideration the lower fees.

I always try and avoid dealing with the "big 4" b a n k s. Try the non-bank alternatives, RAMS, Credit Unions, Building Societies etc.

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AnswerID: 178174

Reply By: Scooter13 - Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 23:43

Monday, Jun 12, 2006 at 23:43
Reminds me of a loan application I put into an unnamed bank (hi Roachie !!) in the mid 80's. It was for about $3k to do up a bathroom in a residence I already owned (or mortgaged). Got the usual mumble mumble bad credit risk etc. not sure if we can lend you this b*llsh*t - basically denied the loan, although I'd banked with them for 8 years at that stage. I stated I wasn't happy and they asked me if I could put up a reference.

I mentioned that I was the nephew of XXXXXX who I knew banked at that branch and was a property developer who I knew had plenty of $$$$$ at that branch. Told the loan officer to check it with the manager. Gone 3 minutes and next thing 'yes sir, we would be happy to approve your loan and would you like more money etc..'

Hypocrites !!!!
AnswerID: 178180

Reply By: chump_boy - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 08:35

Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 08:35
Morning all,

I've been with a Credit Union since I started work, and up until about a year ago, I was quite content. I knew all the staff on a first name basis at 3 of their branches, and more importantly, they knew mine.

After a takeover / merger whatever, I am now watching the fees rise bit by bit, and the service levels slowly diminish......

After the financial year, I'll be looking around, just to see what else is out there. Probably won't move, but it is definitly time to at least look....


AnswerID: 178202

Reply By: Member - Melissa - Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 00:21

Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 00:21

Find yourself a good broker and forget the bank. A good broker will sift through the mountain of different lenders and products out there to find you the best one for your circumstances. They know from experience which lenders will or won't veiw your application favourably saving you the heartache and time and effort involved in submitting unsuccessful applications. Many brokers specialise in lowdoc or nodoc loans which means as long as you have plenty of equity (say 40%) you shouldn't have a problem getting a loan despite the drop in your financials. Brokers generally also have a good feel for how to "position" your loan application so that it fits the lenders criteria. And before you ask I'm not a broker but having used the services of a good broker for multiple properties deals over the years, I wouldn't ever deal directly with a bank again (although I'm happy to borrow through from a bank on my brokers recommendation). Hope this helps.

:o) Melissa
AnswerID: 178371

Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 20:01

Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 20:01
Absolutley correct, been talking to brokers the last couple of days, looks a lot more positive now, Althought one broker is pursuing my current bank?, interesting to see how that goes??

Cheers Axle.
FollowupID: 434710

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 21:09

Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 21:09
I know I'm biased (having worked for nab for the past 35+ years); BUT....

Do you remember several years ago when that big fat slob (John Symonds I think his name is) started up the new "Aussie Home Loans"? He bagged the banks BIG time.... Don't deal with a bank he used to say; come and see Aussie.

More recently he's had his big fat mug on the box again, but this time he says things like: "come and see us, we'll find the best bank deal for you". At the end of the TV ad, they display the logos of all the banks that he'll get you a loan with. Now, in my book, that's a bit hypocritical. But, you wanna know the best bit? If you had the chance to study the logo's of all the banks on that ad, you'd see that the red star of the nab does not appear anywhere. You see, nab reduses to pay the commissions they want.

So, when you go to a bloody broker, just be aware that they will find the best deal for THEM!!!! (not YOU). If Bank "A" pays 5% commission and a 0.25% trail for next 20 years (or whatever), why would the broker suggest you take a loan out with Bank "B" which might only pay 3% commission and no trail?

So, go to a broker by all means, but don't assume they will get you the BEST deal for YOU.

Just in closing, think back to what financial institutions were available 30 years ago. Banks were it; and only about 5 of them.

Then the industry got de-regulated and all these new entities came along and "cherry-picked" the most profitable bits of the finance industry to get their teeth into. Can't blame for that. So, they start doing home loans etc. I haven't one of them set up a comprehensive network of rural branches (with the exception of Bendigo Bank, which I happen to admire for their customer-friendly phylosophy). None of these "fringe-dwellers" has set-up an expensive network of bricks and mortar with a strong-room full of cold hard folding stuff (which costs a fortune to maintain.......a business can't invest assets that are locked away in a strong-room).

A lot of people be-rate the banks for what they consider to be exhorbitant profits; billions of dollars a year. What they fail to acknowledge is that there is vast amounts of capital tied-up in the business to make that "huge" profit. Consider this; if you went to a financial advisor and said you had $1,000,000- to invest and the advisor said to you...."no worries mate, I'll get you a return of $15,000- p/a on your funds"........ I reckon you'd laugh your tits off, right? Well, that's about the return on assets that most banks work on.

Okay, time for another Bex and lie down!!!
FollowupID: 434718

Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 22:26

Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 22:26
Roachie .

Appreciate your replys, But!! the bottom line is if we can"t get the support from a company that we have been with for a long time to try and expand assetts, knowing that their is adequate equity their at minium valuations, it leaves us no alternative but to look elsewhere?. otherwise because this bank said no!!we lay down and die!!?? NOT this black duck!!. 1 or 2 bad yrs doesn't mean your business is stuffed especially in the building trade ,look at house prices up &down like a brides nightie. Now I gotta take a bex AGAIN.

Cheers Axle
FollowupID: 434737

Follow Up By: Member - Melissa - Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 23:15

Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 23:15
I take it you're not a big fan of brokers Roachie ;-).

"So, when you go to a bloody broker, just be aware that they will find the best deal for THEM!!!! (not YOU). If Bank "A" pays 5% commission and a 0.25% trail for next 20 years (or whatever), why would the broker suggest you take a loan out with Bank "B" which might only pay 3% commission and no trail?

So, go to a broker by all means, but don't assume they will get you the BEST deal for YOU."

But lets be clear, the big banks rely heavily on brokers to bring in business and the NAB (or Homeside as their mortgage arm is known) is no exception with 40% of new business being broker generated. However, it is true to say that the commissions paid by banks is generally lower than non-bank lenders.

Selecting a broker is no different to selecting any professional or tradesman to do business with. You might have to sift through some rubble before you find a good one who will act in your best interests. BTW, I don't have anything against banks and our broker has set us up with Homeside and CBA in recent years. Just remember that the banks aren't the only players and there are plenty of very viable and very competitive alternatives.

Now what has all this got to do with 4WDriving, camping etc...absolutely nothing LOL!

:o) Melissa
FollowupID: 434748

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 07:41

Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 07:41
You have just figured out your only a number? Welcome to 20 years ago.
AnswerID: 178383

Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 19:55

Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 19:55
While you fit in their square its not a problem. Move slightley out of it and they just wont budge. taken 20yrs to happen,Its frustrating when it does.!!
FollowupID: 434706

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