Do HID's light up instantly??

Submitted: Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 11:43
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Hi again,

I'm thinking off installing HIDs in either/both headlights and driving lights but am concerned that HID globes need a few seconds to come to full brightness.

So, if this is correct and I fit them to my driving lights, when I change from low beam to hi-beam they will need a few seconds to full brightness??? If so, not much use on a busy highway.

If I replace the low beams, what happens when changing from hi-beam to low beam - really dull lights for a few seconds??? I can't imagine this to be the case - would be very dangerous - but I read a bit about "warm up time" on a web site some time ago - back when HID replacement was new. Anyone with HIDs able to 'shine some light' on this? (sorry 'bout that - couldn't help myself.)
TIA
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Reply By: Scoey (QLD) - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 11:52

Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 11:52
I have read the same thing also about the "warm up" time - however I'm not sure how much of a problem this will be on a busy highway as I'm not sure you'd have much use for HID driving lights if the highway is busy!?

Scoey!
AnswerID: 178230

Reply By: shaggy - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 12:28

Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 12:28
Hi,
you cannot have low/high beam HID (only one light source) if your current headlamps incorporate a H4 bulb (one bulb with two filaments (high/low)). The warm up time is very short. They come on instantly, and you can even "flash" your high beams for example if there is a speed camera. Even immediately after lighting, they emmit more light than a halogen bulb, and will only get brighter and brighter over approx 10 seconds. The light is initially slightly yellow, going to full white over 10 seconds. You can get a retro fit kit for H4, but expect to pay at least $1500 from Hella. You will not have high beam from that reflector pocket then. Hella make all the high voltage modules that enable these bulbs to work and to flash as above. Older modules needed recovery time of several minutes, so if you light the bulb and then turn it off, you needed to wait a few minutes before they come online. But by law you are supposed to have a washer system on your lamps if using low beam gas discharge. Otherwise, you may not be roadworthy. For high beam they are more worth while then low beam.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Blue (VIC) - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 12:32

Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 12:32
Also, in Vic at least, low beams can only be retro fitted to HID if the light is self-levelling. Info on this is available on the VicRoads website.
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 13:37

Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 13:37
I have a set of Xenonoz high/low beam H4s in my GU and they work well. They change beam by use of a sliding section on the globe.....so you're not actually changing filaments etc like on a normal globe.

Mine take a few seconds from first being turned on, to get up to full brightness and they have a bluish tinge initially before going to the really white output. But once they're on, there is no drop off in light output between high and low beam.

Hope this clarifies.

BTW, I know that the law stipulates self-levelling etc. There are at least another dozen ADRs or other rules and regulations that my rig does not comply with. However, I don't hoon around looking for trouble and, to date, I have not been bothered by the folks in the blue uniforms.

Cheers

Roachie
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Follow Up By: Scoey (QLD) - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 13:57

Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 13:57
Hi Roachie,

Just a quick question, what wattage (is that a word???) are the bulbs you're running and did you need to do any other work to the loom to make it work? It's just that I've been told that an increase in brightness of the headlight bulbs can "burn out" (thier words, not mine) the wiring loom etc... an you shed any light on this? (Pun intended!)

Cheers
Scoey!
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 14:04

Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 14:04
Scoey,
My understanding is that the wattage is actually only around 35 watts; so it's less strain on your wiring than normal globes (@ 55w). However, the instructions also advised that it was advisable to increase the fuse (can't remember from what to what, but it was basically one step.....might have been from 10amp to 15 amp possibly).

I don't believe there is any chance of the wiring burning out; certainly not in my experience to date. They measure the brightness of HID globes in a different way to normal globes.....they talk about their 'heat' etc. Mine are (I think) 5000; which is about middle of the range.

Probably best if you check out their website www.xenonoz.com.au

Cheers

Roachie
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Follow Up By: taize - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 14:56

Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 14:56
Roachie,

Is the HID conversion worth $1500? I've been looking at the xenonoz kits for a few years now and each time I think about getting a set the price tag stops me. The wet weather recently in Sydney has made me think about doing something about my low beam and thus getting HID's. I'd be interested in your thoughts about the low beam improvement - especially in the wet. Getting a better high beam is not going to convince me as I can always get a set of spots to improve high beam

Kym
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Follow Up By: Scoey (QLD) - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 15:00

Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 15:00
Cheers for the info and the link Roachie!

Scoey!
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Follow Up By: Tony J - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 15:18

Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 15:18
Hi Shaggy,

"Older modules needed recovery time of several minutes, so if you light the bulb and then turn it off, you needed to wait a few minutes before they come online"

Let me see if I got this right. If I'm using hi-beam HIDs and have to dip my lights because a car is comming towards me, I may need to wait several minutes before switching back up to hi-beam again after the oncomming vehicle has passed if I have an older module HID unit? If this is the case then they would be useless on the Pacific Hwy between say Sydney and Brisbane.

How do I tell an older module to a newer module?
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 15:19

Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 15:19
G'day Kym

The main reason I went for the HIDs was because of the promise of better low beam. I wasn't too worried about the high beam aspect because I have a pair of Lightforce Blitz 240s that take care of things when I'm on the highway. The problem was always the fact that when I dipped for oncoming traffic, I'd be in virtual darkness for what seemed like several seconds, because the standard low beam was soooo bad (I tried a couple of different brands of halogen globes (50+ etc) and nothing seemed to do the trick. These HIDs have very good low beam quality and the high beam is not bad either.....but do still like to have the L/Forces on to see right down the road!!!

As for what they may or may not be like in rain; sorry but I can't comment as we get rain so infrequently over here in country SA, I haven't been able to try them under those conditions as yet......

I am aware there are other brands of HID H4 inserts which are considerably less $$$ than the Xenonoz units. Member "LUCY" recently installed a set in his Troopie; he might be able to shed some light on the topic...hahahaha

Cheers

Roachie
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 19:34

Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 19:34
35 w but a higher voltage Scoey, I think its something like 85v
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 19:35

Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 19:35
Lucy's came from www.bitdistribution.com.au and came on at $495, theyre around 550 now.
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Follow Up By: Gu_Patrol - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 20:45

Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 20:45
Bonz(Vic) said "35 w but a higher voltage Scoey, I think its something like 85v"

Maybe more like 12volts going in and 23,000 volts coming out. The heat is no where near as hot as the 55watt globes, and you can hold the globes with your fingers, they have an extra glass around the filament

All the cars from factory have 4300k globes. I think 5000k is the most you want , other wise they go bluer in colour. Soon you could buy the LED type HID's , you might have to sell your house to buy these.
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 22:08

Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 22:08
If you look here where it says the operating voltage is 85v you'll see the operating voltage is 85 volts, not 23000, at 23kV you'd need some HUGE insulation or the thing would really do some damage.

The ballast changes the voltage from 12v to 85 and the "filament" is actually an arc in xenon gas or similar.

Lucy's work great, oh and I checked, the price is $549.00 for a pair of H4's to replace your headlight bulbs.
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Follow Up By: taize - Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 07:50

Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 07:50
The reason they are cheaper is they probably use ballasts from China rather than Europe. I've heard stories of the light fading over time due to poor quaility parts. I'm not sure I would get chinese ballasts at this stage.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 08:02

Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 08:02
What puts me off is a lot of money if you smash em, and insurance wouldnt pay up me doubts for $600 headlight globes...
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 14:10

Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 14:10
Bonz wrote:

"...If you look here where it says the operating voltage is 85v you'll see the operating voltage is 85 volts, not 23000, at 23kV you'd need some HUGE insulation or the thing would really do some damage.

The ballast changes the voltage from 12v to 85 and the "filament" is actually an arc in xenon gas or similar...."

They do in fact RUN on 85 volts, but it takes several thousand volts (20-23 kV) to get them to "strike" an arc (initialise the ionizing process in the tube). The 85 volts is applied to both ends of the tube and a 23 kV spike is given to a fine wire wrapped around the ouside of the tube to encourage the ionisation to occur inside the tube. In the automotive tubes there is also another glass envelope around the ionization tube to insulate the fine wire (at 23 kV) from finding its way electrically to the earthed headlight enclosure. In esscence they are similar in construction to a zenon flash tube in strobes and camera flash guns.
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 14:13

Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 14:13
PS to above, some designs apply the 23 kV to the ends of the tube, dispensing with the trigger wire altogether. (later designs)
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Reply By: Mbr - Taz & Milka-Queanbeyan - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 16:21

Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 16:21
How come there are many vehicles coming out now with HID as standard but if you spend $1500 to upgrade an older vehicle's lights they aren't legal and you risk wasting your $1500 ?

My wifes Honda Accord Euro has HID lights. They take less than 2 seconds to warm up when first turned on, but once they are on flicking from high to low is exactly the same as any other vehicle.

The light is brighter and whiter than halogen bulbs but don't expect to see FURTHER using HID technology. You will be able to more clearly and thus better but not dramatically further. Because the light is so white the darkness beyond the light actually appears blacker in contrast and some people get the perception of having tunnel vision because the blackness is all around them except the patch of light from the HID's.

As much as I like them in my wife's pocket rocket I think I will wait till they produce a legal conversion kit before blowing my $1500.

Cheers...Taz
AnswerID: 178280

Reply By: shaggy - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 17:26

Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 17:26
For all to see. I think xenonoz is a reseller of "european" possibly german technology. Hella invented the xenon gas discharge system.

Site Link
echnology/Technology.jsp

Anyway, older ballasts are not on the market any more, but some older stock remains to be cleared. I guess there is an incentive there of buying them as obsolete equipment cheap and then hocking them onto unsuspecting customers.

I think hella are currently onto fourth generation ballasts. A problem with older ballasts was also low temperature light up, below minus 10. Water intrusion resistance is much improved now too. But the ballast is the most expensive part of the whole unit, and these need to be mounted remotely, in not too hot area and as high as possible for water protection. Voltage to ballast is not a problem as they self regulate and will function down to approx 8 volts input, whilst still giving full light output.
Fourth gen works to minus 40 deg C. Keep in mind the wind chill factor, not just absolute temperature when considering temperature rating. Say youre doing 100kmh at 0 deg C, this is about minus 20°C.

Bulbs last a long time, but they can fail due to vibration. Then youre up for about $300 each. Good technology if you want the best and are prepared to pay for it.

cheers
AnswerID: 178290

Follow Up By: shaggy - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 17:41

Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 17:41
The line wrap function stuffs up the link

it should be Site Link

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