Native Title to be enforced alongside CSR
Submitted: Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 21:47
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Richard Kovac
Sorry to copy and paste, but got this out of a mag I read. (did a search on copy right but could not fined it)
"Native Title to be enforced alongside CSR
A disturbing event occurred on the
Canning Stock Route (CSR) not too long ago that will change the way we consider the CSR from this point on.
Members of the Martu people who hold exclusive possession native title to country adjacent to the CSR were visiting a sacred site when a group of Victorian tourists ordered them to leave and questioned their right to be there. How to win friends and influence people - not.
This caused obvious concern and has resulted in the Ngaanyatjarra Council (pronounced nanhadurra) insisting all travelers intending to wander off the CSR get. Permission to do so before they depart for the region. The area covered by the title includes all land adjacent to the CSR from
Well 15 to
Well 40 including the
Calvert Range, Durba Springs and the wider Percival Lake area.
The Martu people have had exclusive possession of these lands since 2002 and were happy for the status quo. to remain until the tourist did his thing and forced them to consider their position.
I put to questions to Lisa Maher, Native Title Project Officer at the Ngaanyatjarra Council Native Title Unit and the results follow. Many of the wells on the CSR were originally native wells identified to Canning (often under duress) and were transformed to provide water for stock. Many of the wells from 15-40 are registered Aboriginal
heritage sites by the Department of Indigenous Affairs but the Martu people recognize that they are an integral part of the CSR experience and have no problems with visitation providing people treat the sites with respect.
Durbs Springs is a
well established
campsite for travelers and (pending an upcoming meeting) at this stage access will continue. The issue at Durba is more related to art sites back in the hills and access to this area will be subject to further meetings with the Martu people."
This is and will always be a problem of ignorant people
Regards Richard Kovac
Reply By: Bonz (Vic) - Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 22:48
Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 22:48
Maybe it would also have been an option to widely distribute the news about the idiot travellers and keep the status quo, rather than create a beauracracy for the sake of some Mexican dummies, oh
well maybe no-one saw this as an option
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 23:20
Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 23:20
Bonz
I think that they are only doing what most of as will do
"Close the
gate after the BULL has bolted"
The same thing happen at the
Surveyor Generals Corner,
When asked by the owners what they were doing there. The owner of the land were told to F--ck off
Now and only now we can travel to this place at a cost of $100.00 or there abouts
to me it's just a respect thing, one we should learn to have as we get older.
now these are just my way of doing things and I have on problems letting other people know this.
We of the WA clan, can jump the gun a bit quick when it come to eastern state-rs "LOL"
Richard
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Follow Up By: Ray Bates - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 15:05
Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 15:05
I thought racial discrimination was illeagal in Australia
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 15:24
Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 15:24
Ray youre way off the beam mate.
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Reply By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 04:38
Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 04:38
Pretty disturbing attitude displayed by the visitors Richard and I don't excuse them at all. How many times do you actually see people assume too much when they trespass into areas like this?
I wonder the approach though or what was percieved to be the approach by them when they responded to f... off. Very un-encouraging for our people across Australia if we can't get on with other citizens especially when they live right there. What hope is there for getting on with neighbours in the street or internationally?
I guess we see that on some pretty dysfunctional type TV shows at times and people see that is normal. Very discouraging sign indeed
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 22:32
Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 22:32
JohnR
That's the problem the visitors were not trespassing they were welcome for a long time as of after 2002 and before, but it was there ignorance's that caused the further problems
Please read the later post
Richard
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Reply By: Willem - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 10:19
Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 10:19
Richard
Your story has been recyled on here a few weeks ago. Search the archives...lol
I can just see the enforcement..........Security gates, solar flood lights, Armed Guards.....please.......Lisa Maher is becoming a well iknown name these days...in internet circles anyway. Nothing like a bit of POWER.
I for one will not be shivering in my boots.
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 10:32
Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 10:32
WHO IS lISA mAHER
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Follow Up By: Willem - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 10:40
Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 10:40
Employee of Ngaantjarra Council.
I see they now describe themselves as The Shire of Ngaantjarra.
Too many people relate to the hobbits, methinks.
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 21:01
Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 21:01
Sorry The rest of the story
As far as getting permission to access land adjacent to the
CSR - at this point, permission is required but it is not a permit as such and there. Is no associated cost. Lisa has a template available on the net which needs to be filled out and forwarded for approval.
Given the number of enquiries so far (around 50) it would be a good idea to apply earlier than later.
An old Australian land law preserves "right of way” on recognized thoroughfares and the Council wants to make the point that if you are simply traveling up the CSR without any side trips between Well 15 and Welt 40, then permission is not required. This year signage will appear on the CSR advising the new requirements. The Martu people are looking to establish a management plan for the CSR and adjacent lands but there are hold-ups. They say, as the state Government. Grapples with the issues.
Down the track, Lisa advises, the Martu people may make themselves available as interpreters for interested groups and this sort of activity will go a long way to creating a better understanding what the Martu and their connection with the land.
In past editions of Western 4WDriver you would have read stories of trips into areas such as the
Calvert Range where indigenous art was referred to. Always magical and mysterious, perhaps now there is the opportunity to understand what it all means.
Contact Lisa Maher@ngaanyatjarra.org.au for the template to apply for access.
Richard
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 21:21
Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 21:21
Willem
It was not meant to scare you, it was to point the the problem is the dick heads that travel not the people that own the land that caused the problem,
It's caused by people with little understanding most of the time that fu-k it up for the rest of us that at least GAF....
Richard
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 21:43
Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 21:43
Richard, in this day and age of learned and enlightened folk I dont think there is a need on a public
forum to use such colorful language, its not appropriate and only demenas both you and the subject you talk about, even a simple reference such as GAF, which I do, is inappropriate in my opinion.
By all means respond, even be passionate aboit it but but but leave the gutter talk there.
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 22:00
Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 22:00
That's Cool Bonz
It all about interpretation I suppose, gutter talk is all over this
forum (public or not) I would have thought. but I can see you point.
As this is my post I would have thought I have the wright to say what I want and you are free to comment,
(By all means respond, even be passionate about it but but but leave the gutter talk there.)
I see a lot of people on this
forum turn a post into there platform all the time, and sometimes hard works are all that some people understand
Sorry if this offends you
Regards Richard Kovac
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 22:10
Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 22:10
Yer Richard I know its all over the place I cringe every time I see it as its not something I want my children seeing on a
forum that I am a member of, and where appropriate I comment on it each time I see it, old fuddy duddy fart arent I?
Yes this is your post but this is OUR
forum and I would expect normal pleasantries and protocols to apply to all posts.
And I am not against turning a post into a platform (as long as one doesnt lose any skin in the process - thats a wood working joke!) lets just try and remain pleasant and passionate
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 22:17
Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 22:17
I'm sorry Bonz
Did you get my Web response E-mail instead of Willem?
Richard
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 22:19
Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 22:19
Everyone in the thread gets the response Richard, I bear no malice mate
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 22:24
Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 22:24
No problem just a question
I will now review my responses, if all get a response
even now i think it's only in follow up?
Richard
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 22:32
Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 22:32
Thats right Richard With a reply the email gets sent to the originator, with followups all who have replied with a followup prior to yours gets the email, so poor Willem will be getting the good oil on my and your diatribe henceforth
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Follow Up By: Willem - Friday, Jun 16, 2006 at 09:04
Friday, Jun 16, 2006 at 09:04
Richard
It was a throwaway line and maybe the
grey cells were coursing in the wrong direction just at that time.
I agree with Bonz however that whatever we may feel about a subject or, maybe a perceived injustice, there is no need to to use vulgar expressions on this
forum
(and I am not claiming innocence here). We have to learn as we go along.
The scariest thing of the internet is that everything you say here eventually finds its way on to Google or by other Search Engines as I have found out from doing research on other matters and have found things I have said on EO some years ago.......LOL
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Reply By: fc_holden - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 21:40
Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 21:40
I agree with what the traditional owners are doing, if I found someone in my land and was told to f off by them I would be a might upset as well.
I saw a program on SBS the other week with an indigenous gentleman who was searching for his father in NT, he spoke of the areas they where passing and compared them to our church's and the fact we would not like anyone desecrating our church's; this bought a new view of things to myself and I think I now understand a bit better the view they have on their land and respect it a lot more.
It was a very enlightening program / series.
If they wish to limit access so be it all they want is some respect for their belief’s and customs the same as we do.
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