Independent v's Parallel Dual battery systems

Submitted: Saturday, Jul 08, 2006 at 19:01
ThreadID: 35636 Views:6085 Replies:7 FollowUps:10
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Hi,

Ive done a search on this and still have a few questions that remain unanswered. Collyn stated in a thread that there is little benifit for running an aux battery independent from the starter battery using a system such as the Rotronic RBT12. But is this still the case if you are running say a lead acid for your starter and an AGM for your aux battery? Am I still going to be able to get a full charge in my aux battery if I use a system such as Redarc Smart?

Cheers!
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Reply By: Muzzgit (WA) - Saturday, Jul 08, 2006 at 22:49

Saturday, Jul 08, 2006 at 22:49
Redarc would be the people to contact. They are well known for before or after sales advice and no one would be able to answer your question better.

As for no benefit in running the system you mention.....rubbish !!!

The way I use my dual battery system would leave me in the poo every time we go away. We regularly camp up for 3 days running a 50 waeco and a fluro light at night without any form of charging.

After 3 days my aux battery is close to FLAAAATTT and I have no trouble starting the car.

I realise well and truly that my aux battery isn't going to live very long, but I expect that and I can live with that.
AnswerID: 182479

Reply By: Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators - Saturday, Jul 08, 2006 at 23:03

Saturday, Jul 08, 2006 at 23:03
Hi Bubbles

The new Redarc SBI12D with dual controllers is the one to go for. I sell both the SBI12 and the 'D' but prefer the 'D' with it's dual monitoring.

Regards Derek.
AnswerID: 182482

Follow Up By: Bubbles - Sunday, Jul 09, 2006 at 10:20

Sunday, Jul 09, 2006 at 10:20
Do you have any more info on the SBI12d as the Redarc site has vertualy zero info on it.?Also can you give me a price as it isnt listed on you website? And one last thing, will you ship an Fullriver AGM 90 to Adelaide?

Cheers!
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FollowupID: 438919

Follow Up By: Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators - Sunday, Jul 09, 2006 at 10:26

Sunday, Jul 09, 2006 at 10:26
Hi Bubbles

Please contact me on djbester@bigpond.net.au and I will send you any info you need.

The forum is for advice and help and is not to be used for sales.

Regards Derek.
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Follow Up By: Muzzgit (WA) - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 20:06

Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 20:06
Sorry Bubbles, I misread read your original post, and once again shot my mouth off.
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Jul 09, 2006 at 17:49

Sunday, Jul 09, 2006 at 17:49
Collyn is of course correct (I'm sure few would doubt that). A simple isolator like the Redarc or Rotronics MH10 will work fine with a wet cell cranking and an AGM aux. Both batteries will be getting the 14.2 volts soon after starting.

Your cranking battery uses very little of its capacity to start the vehicle, so it will be recharged soon after starting and then accepting only a few amps from the alternator at 14.2v.

Therefore your AGM will initially take maybe 30-40 amps from the alterator (depending on lots of factors including how discharged it is), and this gradually drops off as its recharged. Alternators on modern vehicle have higher outputs than in the past, and have no problems with this.

Whatever system you install, its important to have thick wiring, and have a fat earth lead going to both engine and body, for both batteries to recharge well.
AnswerID: 182574

Follow Up By: Bubbles - Sunday, Jul 09, 2006 at 17:58

Sunday, Jul 09, 2006 at 17:58
Thanks very much for that Phil. Its what I was hoping to hear :)

Cheers!

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Reply By: Mad Dog - Vic - Sunday, Jul 09, 2006 at 18:18

Sunday, Jul 09, 2006 at 18:18
A parallel dual battery system will work just fine with your AGM. The rotronics independant system is an unnecessary expense.
AnswerID: 182580

Reply By: Member - DOZER- Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 07:34

Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 07:34
Gday
This is how i see it....if you have a place on your motor you can bolt a second alt to, do that.....you will have two independant systems going then, that sence their respective batteries condition and adjust accordingly.
Putting two batteries of different resistance together, is asking for trouble....the one with less resistance (gel) will charge higher than th one with more (lead)...(V=IR) or rob it of charge, whichever way you want to look at it...the only option you have other than the seperate systems is the seperate charger like the Rototronic one...dear as poison...
Andrew
AnswerID: 182640

Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 10:33

Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 10:33
No

Mike
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Follow Up By: Member - DOZER- Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 13:11

Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 13:11
So nothing has changed, batteries and tyres around the camp fire are as contencious as religion and politics....remember, all the isolators other than the rototronics, join both batteries together with that nice thick wire that flows 500 amps easily.....the full battery pumps as much as it can into the discharged one to equalise the volts as soon as the isolator joins them....not good for any battery.....
However, it will work for a while....
Andrew
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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 14:00

Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 14:00
"the full battery pumps as much as it can into the discharged one to equalise the volts as soon as the isolator joins them....not good for any battery"
- not really, just another one those Dual-Battery myths that everyone quotes, but no-one ever proves or disproves.

I've actually tested this by connecting a fully charged new AGM 90 Ahr battery to a fully discharged (to 10 volts) wet-cell starting battery. The MAXIMUM current that flowed for a few SECONDS was 32 amps, but reduced to 7 amps after 1 minute.

The total charge transferred from AGM to Wetcell was only 10.7 AHrs after being connected for 2 HOURS, this will not affect the AGM's starting ability !

Have you ever tried charging a battery with 12.6 volts ? That's all a fully charged wet-cell can put out - it won't put much charge into a battery discharged to 0% remaining.

Mike
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Follow Up By: Member - DOZER- Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 17:34

Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 17:34
Your experiment sounds interesting....what method did you use to measure the flow?
If you have one only gel cel in a car thats alt is pumping 14.6 into it, what fully charged voltage do u expect to see in the battery??(not surface charge, but working charge)
And if it is connected to a wet cell, with redarc or similar, what volts does it show then (again fully charged)???
If it is less, does the gel cell then never get fully charged????
Andrew
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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 20:08

Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 20:08
Andrew

The batteries were connected with about a 1 metre of 8g wire - so the wire resistance was 0.005 ohm. The Current monitoring shunt was also 0.005 ohm. There was a 60 amp fuse also.

Provided your Alternator has good output capability (around 80 amps) then while any batteries are connected to it (and you only have reasonable loads connected to it ) then all the batteries will see 14.4 volts. If one of the batteries is heavily discharged initially and drawing lots of current, then the voltage may be lower, but not for long.

This voltage will charge any battery after a several hours (other than Calcium-Calcium batteries). 3-stage chargers will also put out 14.4 volts in Stage 2 (depending on battery selection).

I'm surprised you are asking about a Gel Cell - they usually aren't used in Starting applications and are also prone to ovecharging more easily.

Mike
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Reply By: Muzzgit (WA) - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 20:04

Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 20:04
The way I like to explain it is..... Imagine joining two large water tanks together at the bottom using only a drinking straw. One tank is full, one tank is empty.

The transfer of water would be very slow, limited by the small size of the straw.

If you then start adding water at a greater pressure into the straw, it will flow to the place of least resistance, this being the empty tank.

So, as long as the alternator is supplying charge while the batteries are connected, the starting battery will not discharge into the aux. It is when the alternator is not supplying charge, or you are using accesories with a large current draw [spotlights etc] that the two batteries may "equal out".

Not scientific, not guaranteed, only my opinion, but it's what I've been taught.

AnswerID: 182784

Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 20:28

Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 20:28
The bucket-of-water analogy just doesn't extend to batteries - if it were appropriate then a battery with 50% capacity would have to have 6 volts coming out of it - not 12 volts.

You can easily test what happens if you connect a charged and discharged battery - no-one seems to do it though.

Mike
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Reply By: Member - Mike DID - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 20:30

Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 20:30
You can half-fill a bucket by connecting it to another bigger tank that has its water level at mid-bucket height.

You can't half-charge a flat battery by connecting it to a 6 volt charger.

Mike
AnswerID: 182792

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