How Long Will Our Fuel Supplies Last.
Submitted: Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 13:47
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disco1942
Tonight the ABC,s Four Corners programme will feature some researchers looking into the problems of surrounding our fuel supplies. I heard some snippets this morning on
Newcastle Local Radio. Sounds like a not to be missed programme.
PeterD
Reply By: mfewster - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 14:05
Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 14:05
I would vote for any Party that did the following. Provided incentives to industry and private individuals to change vehicles over to LPG. Used our current tax windfall on gasoline to provide incentives to hugely expand gas distribution points across the country. Regulated overseas gas contracts against planned domestic use. (Instead of selling the stuff as fast as it can at what will be giveaway prices in a couple of years.)
The Fed's recent changes in the tax structure of bio-diesel discouraging the development of that industry demonstrates the level of their thinking. In most countries a policy like that in the current energy climate would cause public outcry sufficient to change the government. Surely, we need more incentives to develop bio-diesel production, distribution and its take-up by the transport industry?
Does the Opposition show any more vision? Not so far.
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Follow Up By: Member - Coyote (SA) - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 15:01
Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 15:01
Isn't gas a fossil fuel too???? There is more of it available because less people use it. We will still be using it up faster than nature creates it. Isn't it all about finding renewable enegry sources??? now I guess that should provoke a few responses???
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Follow Up By: Snowy 3.0iTD - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 16:01
Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 16:01
I think the main reason the government was so eager to have the gas deal with China signed was to try and get some sanity back to our foreign trade defecit. We import more than we export, which means money is pouring out of Australia's economy. As for my opinion I'll air it and wait to get shot-down; "The sooner we start driving hydrogen powered vehicles fuelled from big hydrogen processing plants powered by nuclear power plants the better". More radioactivity is released by coal-burning powerstations per MW than a nuclear power plant, it is just diluted by hundreds of tonnes of other emmissions. FIRE AWAY.
Snowy
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 16:13
Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 16:13
Agreed. Nuclear is the way ahead - even James Lovelock says so.
www.ecolo.org/lovelock/
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Follow Up By: disco1942 - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 17:12
Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 17:12
LPG is an oil refinery by-product – natural gas is not it comes straight out of the ground. LPG has approximately twice the calorific value of natural gas so the two are not compatible.
Natural gas does not liquefy as easily as LPG and refuelling a vehicle takes a hell of a lot longer. That is why natural gas is only used in a couple of trials in Australia. As it is not being used in any great quantities for portable use and our production is so much greater than our domestic and industrial use we may as
well flog some of it off for what ever price we can get – remember it is far more costly to transport than liquid fuels – that is why we get it piped to our houses at a much cheaper rate than they can ship it round the coast.
Why do so many people confuse the two gasses and sound off making themselves look bigger twits than they are.
PeterD
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Follow Up By: Snowy 3.0iTD - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 17:17
Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 17:17
Peter you have a valid point but there is no need to criticise other people for their ignorance, knowledge is a gift to be shared freely, and everyone knows something that no one else does.
Kind Regards
Snowy
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Follow Up By: Charlie - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 18:39
Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 18:39
Many industrial users power their forklift trucks using natural gas but it's just not competive against lpg,the cylinder is expensive as is owning you own compressor.No doubt its use will increase once petrol phases out.
Charlie
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Follow Up By: disco1942 - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 20:34
Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 20:34
Sorry Snowy – I was thinking as much of the supposedly
well educated people who get on the radio and TV and sprout this type of rubbish. They are probably are the same ones who loudly announce that they will not drink recycled
water but happily go to England and drink the
water there – which is recycled on average 7 ½ times.
PeterD
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Reply By: Wombat - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 14:16
Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 14:16
4.36pm on July 17th?
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Follow Up By: Pajman Pete (SA) - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 14:47
Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 14:47
Better fill up the jerrys now then!
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Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 21:27
Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 21:27
Not fair Wombat. That's not pay week :))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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Reply By: Alan H (Narangba QLD) - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 15:46
Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 15:46
What we need is a range of alternatives not just a single push in one direction. I am sure things like hydrogen and biofuels have a lot to offer.
Any show about oil is usually done by "experts" who are from oil companies trying to decry alternatives or justify prices. An objective program would be having the oil conpanies arguing for altrnatives and alternative proponents arguing the oil case.
There is still a lot of hype arround fuel and fuel prices. It seems that we over react to price fluctuations. Amazing to see people charging around trying to find a couple cents cheaper and save $2. Our real concern should be the exploitation of price by oil companies which are literally a monopoly as none of us can just refuse to use vehicles and the country is far to big for public transport to be viable for long trips.
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Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 15:59
Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 15:59
G'day Alan,
As a personal protest I now travel via pedal power to work 3 days a week. After 5 months I am not quite willing to classify myself as an expert but I can say it has a lot of merit. Apart from a spectacular dive at about 40 KPH a month ago this means of transport provides numerous benefits not the least being beneficial for my overal health (aforementioned incident aside), no fuel, no polution and a lot more time to admire the scenery (do you know that jogging by attractive women is a popular past time at
Kangaroo Point?).
Kind regards
Theo
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 16:15
Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 16:15
Jogging what? :)
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Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 16:19
Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 16:19
Mike,
Some are an absolute danger to my safety. There have been some close calls as I attempt a perv and ride the bike at the same time. Riding again tomorrow - can't wait for the warmer weather to come around!
Kind Regards
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 18:43
Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 18:43
A man after my own heart :)
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Follow Up By: Markymark - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 20:43
Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 20:43
Beatit
I worked with a bloke who ran into a parked car with his bike, as he was having a perv. I couldn't stop laughing picturing it in my head.
Cheers
Mark.
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Reply By: Gramps (NSW) - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 15:55
Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 15:55
Is it 1973/74 again ????
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Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 16:02
Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 16:02
Al,
I remember this time as
well, long qeues to buy $1-00 of petrol. Pushing the car the last hundred meters into the servo. Not nice - mind you a $1 of fuel today aint going to get you far!
Kind regards
Theo
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Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 16:08
Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 16:08
hahahaha Theo. The ABC will probably use the same scripts they used then (budget restrictions you know) LOL
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Reply By: Exploder - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 19:12
Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 19:12
Isn’t it interesting how Fuel jumped up over the $1 a litre mark in capital cities around mid 2004, what could have caused this I wonder?
July 2004 Average in
Perth was 94 Cent’s a litre!!!
January 2001, 85 Cent’s a Litre???
Since March 2005 we have gone from a average price of 1.04 to 1.35 now in Jul 06
And people are out there trying to tell us the oil companies aren’t plying silly buggers with prices.
It’s not like demand has increased that much In 1 year to cause fuel to jump 30 cent’s
When between 2001 and mid way throe 2004 it moved 10 cents in what 3 ½ years!!!.
So why don’t we all just get out the Tubs of Vaseline, Why??,
well we don’t like the high fuel prices, but there isn’t chit we can do about it so we may as
well make it as comfortable as possible
well we all get screwed.
Not saying Oil won’t run out, it will but just not Yet
Remember the Experts told us were would be paying $2 a litre by last Christmas, so watch the program but don’t believe everything it tells you.
Cheers..
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Follow Up By: robak (QLD) - Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 15:22
Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 15:22
Isn't vaseline a petroleum product?
:)
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Reply By: Member - Leigh (Vic) - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 19:52
Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 19:52
Crikey..they may even bring back the 4cyl Sunbird!
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Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 20:51
Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 20:51
Now ya talkin! The mighty GM 'Starfire 4' a.k.a. a 186 red motor with two pots lopped off with a bandsaw. Nice. Even went into the Dunnydoor for a brief tour of duty.
Oooohhh they were such a handsome package. The auto was particularly nice too.
I remember a family stranded by their kermit green Sunbird up at Gnaraloo Station in the erly 80's. Dad wasn't real happy with it - let me give you
the tip.
The Mazda / HQ Holden hybrid was another example of Jap/Oz ingenuity. A wankel powered Q ship. Rates up there with the Lightburn Zeta I'd say.
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Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 20:56
Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 20:56
Or the Gemini Sandpiper!
Or the SLR Torana with the canvas annexe!
Or the burgundy and gold LS Monaro with honeycomb mags.
Bring back the Valiant 318ci Drifter panelvan I say! Let the eco-weenies choke on their alf alfa sprouts whilst we go running down some Bilby's while smoking packs of Viscounts and drinking flagons of warm Stone's Green Ginger Wine with a couple of rough as guts slappers in the back.
Grouse!!!! Mintox mate.
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Follow Up By: Exploder - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 21:13
Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 21:13
Was it the Camira that was exported to Europe or somewhere? And on the salted roads the thing dissolved faster than a Disprin.
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Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 21:30
Monday, Jul 10, 2006 at 21:30
V8diesel,
Stop it man, you're spinning me out :)))))))
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Reply By: mfewster - Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 09:15
Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 09:15
Peter is quite right in his comments on LPG v Nat gas. But the point is being missed.
The problem is the current, rapidly rising level of demand is otsripping supplies. This is nothing like the 1973 hiccup. There is not going to be crisis followed by a getting back to normal. My point was that we need a national fuel policy that looks at all energy sources. We will need as much biodiesel, natural gas, ethanol,lpg as we can get and yes, there are real problems with all of them that will fundamentallychange the way transport happens. It takes 10 years to set up new
infrastructure systems. What are our "leaders" doing?
As chance would have it, the Motor Transport Authority gave a press release on the same lines yesterday. Worth reading. Site Link
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Follow Up By: Barnesy - Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 13:16
Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 13:16
Agree with you mfewster. Crude oil will run out, irrelevant whether that is 10 or 30 years. The point is we need to be looking at every conceivable alternative so we are prepared for WHEN it DOES run out. This oil crisis is different from the 1970's, it will not recover as the actual oil will dry up.
Early on people like Henry Ford and Rudolph Diesel had a vision that their cars will run on biofuels but petroleum was cheaper. Only a matter of time before petroleum becomes more expensive and other fuels will be more viable.
Removing tax breaks for biodiesel producers was a disgrace. These fuels are not the only solution but a lot more viable long-term than crude.
I think the term 'leaders' relating to politicians is wrong. They are not leaders. They are organisers. They need to start organising Oz for future energy use.
Good story on Land line the other day about biofuels. Transcript is still on land line website.
Barnesy
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Reply By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 10:15
Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 10:15
Sorry Peter I missed the show, what was the final outcome/prognosis? Is there enough for my retirement travel in 5 years?
Kind regards
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Follow Up By: Barnesy - Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 13:26
Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 13:26
Three general points Beatit.
1. the majority of big oil fields production have probably already peaked and from now on crude oil will be harder and a lot more expensive to produce. Driving prices up.
2. Saudi arabia and other OPEC countries are in a state of political turmoil causing instability in oil prices and investment risks.
3. China and India are developing at a fast rate and demand has outstripped supply for the first time ever. As China grows it will only worsen. Coupled with more expense for extecting the crude.
Fuel for retiremant in 5 years? No doubt it will be more expensive, but by how much nobody can answer.
On the surface it seems like groups that advise governments are the only ones who predict crude prices will drop, and governments believe them!
Barnesy
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Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 13:33
Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 13:33
G'day Barnesy,
Ah the "peak Oil Theory" it makes a heap of sense, off course. There are some interesting web sites on the topic. I agree with its prognosis however it is unclear as to the timing and as you have pointed out for us to get to that point prices will rise in line with higher demand and lower supply. I was just curious if the ABC had made any headway into predicting some sort of timeline.
BTW my next car will be a diesel that will run on canola.
Kind regards
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Follow Up By: Barnesy - Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 13:47
Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 13:47
I don't think anyone can predict a timeline. No new oil fields have been discovered for decades.
Saudi Arabia produces 25% of the worlds crude and they aren't letting anyone in on how long their supplies will last. They ask the rest of the world to simply trust that as demand increases they have the ability to supply the demand.
Off of the ABC topic, another major OPEC is Iraq, i dont think george bush will be in a hurry to share the oil he has gone to war over. He refuses to let the 'new' iraq government control 'their' oil fields.
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Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 14:30
Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 14:30
All the more reason to get out and enjoy the country before we are prevented by unafordable fuel prices. Worry about things you can do something about - like how quickly can I get out of work and travel. see you somewhere remote soon I hope.
Kind regards
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Reply By: disco1942 - Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 13:40
Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 13:40
The main thing agreed on was that the rising demand in India & China has not been matched by increased production. So get used to the high prices.
You can still pick up the programme on www.abc.net.au/4corners/ or Wednesday at 11:10 pm
PeterD
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 13:50
Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 13:50
Oh goody, somethign else to scare the pants off the fuel price market...
I mean china sent off a few missiles, and they bleep their pants, Willem farted, they bleep their pants, Krispy Kreams opened in
Melbourne, they bleep their pants, 4 corners has a show on it, they bleep their pants.
everytime someone wakes up now, they think its an excuse to up the fuel prices.. its just bleep in stupid.
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Follow Up By: Barnesy - Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 16:51
Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 16:51
Truckster writes a witty reply on an internet
forum. That's worth another 5c/litre.
Get used to it because soon we will probaly be saying things along the lines of, " bleep fuel prices haven't risen in 6 weeks".
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