Battery-Inverter
Submitted: Sunday, Jul 16, 2006 at 16:28
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dj Patrol
Is a 100amp AGM battery ok for a 1000watt Inverter or do I need a bank , I have 125watt Solar Panel on top Just running small Items Laptop,Phone Charger, Might run 850watt Microwave a little,other general use.
dj
Reply By: Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators - Sunday, Jul 16, 2006 at 16:59
Sunday, Jul 16, 2006 at 16:59
The 100 amp AGM is fine. Just keep an eye on the battery voltage and condition.
The microwave is you biggest draw try to use it only for a few minutes at a time.
The inverter will cut out if the voltage gets too low.
This is a basic answer and if you have more details on the amp draw I could give you a better answer but again it would depend on battery condition, sunlight and time.
Regards Derek.
AnswerID:
183777
Reply By: joc45 - Sunday, Jul 16, 2006 at 17:08
Sunday, Jul 16, 2006 at 17:08
Hi dj,
That's 100 amp-hour battery I assume. This will deliver 5 amps for 20 hours, 10 amps for less than 10 hours, 50 amps for a lot less than 2 hours. And that's to being fully discharged.
If it's a 240v microwave you're running, then the 850watts you're talking of is 850w output energy. These microwaves are probably no more than 70% efficient (prob more like 50%), so you are talking of (at least) about 1300w AC input to the device.
Most
inverters are about 85-90% efficient, so your 12v DC input will be about 1500watts, possibly 2000w if the m/w is only 50% eff. That's about 125-160 amps at 12v, which will be a bit hard on your 100 amp-hour battery.
Gerry
AnswerID:
183783
Follow Up By: Member - Pesty (SA) - Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 08:57
Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 08:57
My mail is that to run a 1000w inverter, you are best off with at least 150 amps, so 2 batterys will give you a better setup, and it also doesnt drain your battery setup as fast or as low, so recovery is easier.
My father has 240v microwave in caravan, and i think it is 850w or 900w input and that works
well on 1000w inverter.
He uses a 160w inverter for all his small stuff including his tv as 1000w job uses too much just to have running.
Cheer Pesty
FollowupID:
441480
Reply By: disco1942 - Sunday, Jul 16, 2006 at 18:12
Sunday, Jul 16, 2006 at 18:12
Dj – the problem is not battery size, it's the inverter size. As Gerry said it is not big enough for a microwave and if you use it for the small items you listed it will be way too large.
The efficiency of an inverter is quoted at full output. Most of the power lost is the power required to run the inverter circuitry. Thus as you reduce the power output the amount of lost power does not reduce in the same proportion. If you are only using a phone charger or an electric shaver you will be wasting more power than you are consuming for useful power – not good.
For small things like phones you can get 12V chargers. They cost a little more than an inverter but are more efficient to run. Consider these first. If you do go for an inverter a 120 – 150W model should do for any portable computer and be far more efficient than your proposed 1KW one.
PeterD
AnswerID:
183793
Reply By: Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators - Sunday, Jul 16, 2006 at 19:27
Sunday, Jul 16, 2006 at 19:27
Sorry I beg to differ.
Stand by current is 4 watts on a good quality unit. Almost nothing !
You only draw what you use.
The bigger units tend to work better.
I do agree that if you can get a 12v supply for the camera and laptop then it is a good option but use your inverter if you wish with confidence.
Regards Derek.
AnswerID:
183814
Follow Up By: cipher - Sunday, Jul 16, 2006 at 22:38
Sunday, Jul 16, 2006 at 22:38
im with disco on this one..
I have a 1kw Jaycar pure sinewave inverter in my fj62 running full time in the back of my cruzer... i have 2 batteries in the back 2x110AH deep cycle batts and if i turn the car off at 9pm at night, the rear batteries are flat by morning 6am, with no load on it at all... Batteries are in good condition...With my 12vDC - 15vDC tranny for my laptop the rear batteries (without the inverter on) will run my laptop (charging) for about 22hours....
You could be right, its possible there is a fault with my inverter, not sure, but IMHO my inverter draws heaps just on rest.
Justin
FollowupID:
440466
Follow Up By: Member - Andrew (QLD) - Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 09:48
Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 09:48
cipher, you're kidding right? The jaycar ones should use less than 1.8A on standby....not 10A+!
Do you have this one ==>
Site Link
Looks like you have something else to fix on the vehicle today :-)
Andrew
FollowupID:
441482
Follow Up By: cipher - Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 16:08
Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 16:08
Andrew,
yeah look its possible that my unit is faulty.. I did get it from the tech store as a refurb, so possible there is a fault, dont know what the deal is.. But i just thought i would put it out there for thought and discussion.
Justin
FollowupID:
441510
Reply By: Member - Mike DID - Sunday, Jul 16, 2006 at 20:19
Sunday, Jul 16, 2006 at 20:19
If the Microwave does in fact need 1300 watts input then it just won't run on a 1000 watt Inverter.
Running the Microwave at 50% power won't help - it doesn't wind back to 650 watts - it runs at 1300 for 5 seconds, then zero power for 5 seconds.
Mike
AnswerID:
183823
Follow Up By: shaggy - Monday, Jul 17, 2006 at 12:50
Monday, Jul 17, 2006 at 12:50
True for cheap microwaves. But have a look at panasonic inverter models from about $250 onwards. They have a ac to dc back to ac inverter in them and can drop power consumption and do not cycle. So you could get a microwave and then lower its output on the menus so that it doesnt cut out from whatever car inverter you have available. They can wind down to 100 W microwave output, with about 200w consumption.
Same goes for better airconditioners. I have run a 1 (740 W) hp inverter aircon of a 1 hp generator. There is no surge current requirement, so the gen does not cut out. Excellent
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Monday, Jul 17, 2006 at 13:04
Monday, Jul 17, 2006 at 13:04
Interesting, I didn't realise they already made Inverter Microwaves.
That makes a 12 Volt Microwave ($800) sound VERY expensive by comparison, considering I already have a 500 watt Sinewave Inverter.
Mike
FollowupID:
440529
Follow Up By: shaggy - Monday, Jul 17, 2006 at 18:32
Monday, Jul 17, 2006 at 18:32
Another interesting possibility is to run a 50L 240 v fridge from a sinewave inverter of approx 300w. I bought one LG 50 litre for $218 and it comes with a five year warranty. And only draws 60 watts max. Not really as efficient as a 12v engel or waeco ( I think they are 35 watt but could be wrong), but is sure a hell of a lot cheaper and has freezer and refrigiration sections. All 12 volt appliances have very limited manufacturing volumes and are thus expensive to tool up. So you are not getting something better, you are just paying for low volume manufacturing inefficiencies...
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Follow Up By: Member - mikeyandmary (NSW) - Monday, Jul 17, 2006 at 22:22
Monday, Jul 17, 2006 at 22:22
I might be wrong, but I'll bet my engel outlasts your LG. I don't see that domestic fridges would be made for the rough conditions many 12v fridges are designed to withstand. LG is a great brand but is not designed for 4WD conditions.
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Follow Up By: shaggy - Friday, Jul 21, 2006 at 20:35
Friday, Jul 21, 2006 at 20:35
May do, but this is 3 years old and still ticking. It has been through the outback and probably another 5000 km of weekend trips. And you know what? I don't think your engel will last 5 times longer, as it costs 5 times more.
Cheers
FollowupID:
441438
Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 at 20:19
Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 at 20:19
Having to replace the Fridge and food when you are camped in the middle of nowhere puts a different perspective on it.
Mike
FollowupID:
441657
Reply By: madmax - Tuesday, Jul 25, 2006 at 11:07
Tuesday, Jul 25, 2006 at 11:07
Hi dj,
To get the most of your battery you should not discharge it more than 50%, also if you are going to going to use appliances that draw a lot of charge (ie microwaves) you may want to consider upping the voltage of your battery bank. Taking a lot of amps out of your battery bank in a short amount of time can also shorten the life of your batteries. Higher voltage = less amps (Watts = Volts x amps)
To accurately size a system that suits your requirements try this calculator:
AC and DC solar calculators and battery sizers
Regards,
Max
Information Manager
Energy Matters - SOLAR and Battery Sales
www.energymatters.com.au
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185199