Water Xings vs Fluid Fans

Submitted: Friday, Feb 28, 2003 at 13:48
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When using a water curtain ( cover across the bullbar ), is it wise to clamp the fan still?....GQ Patrol
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Reply By: ExplorOz Team - David - Friday, Feb 28, 2003 at 13:56

Friday, Feb 28, 2003 at 13:56
Voxson,

What sort of vehicle are you using as most these days have a viscous (spelling) coupled fan which will cause it to slow/stop rotating if it encounters resistance (such as lots a water). You should not need to stop your fan manually and you should never just clamp it. If you want to stop it remove the belt. If it is electric you may want to remove the cable that plugs it in as these do not have the same coupling however they are generally smaller and the resistance of the water will tend to stop it from rotating anyway.

Hope this helps.
David
AnswerID: 14162

Reply By: Truckster - Friday, Feb 28, 2003 at 14:11

Friday, Feb 28, 2003 at 14:11
Dave, he says GQ Patrol. this man has taste..

Voxon.

Ive had mine over the bonnet many times, but never worried about a blind.. But it depends on how much water and for how long.. If your in doubt, I would just pop off the fan belt.. It is a clutch fan, so if the car is cool enough it should be ok. *SHOULD*...

If you have a good bow wave, and a good blind, up under the bonnet, up to the windscreen(so the water bypasses the motor all together), tie it to the Side Mirrors... then you should have no probs..

Make sure it goes BEHIND the bullbar, Not infront....

You want it down along the grill, right down under the car... Make it as large as possible, you want a LARGE air pocket. Tie it in as many places around the side as possible.

Thats one reason to have no wires coming out THRU the grill to the bullbar... They get in the way of you putting on a blind.. Ariels are anotehr thing that get in the way... :( but we need them!

But safetly first.
AnswerID: 14163

Follow Up By: Cj - Friday, Feb 28, 2003 at 14:26

Friday, Feb 28, 2003 at 14:26
Truckster why not over the bullbar?

Also, what about the A/C? If the A/C is on, does it not force the fan? (The ac has ts own belt connected to the fan on my Jack TD)

CJ
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Follow Up By: Member - Moggs - Friday, Feb 28, 2003 at 16:04

Friday, Feb 28, 2003 at 16:04
Truckster - tis the first time I have heard someone actually give the correct instructions to use a blind - good one. Have heard people say how you should erect almost a tent over the bonnet - just need to ensure the motor aint to hot before slipping the blind under the hood. The only thing I would add is to cut a "buttonhole" into the blind so that you can close the bonnet fully with the blind underneath. Have used this method many times - actually don't need to secure it, just tuck it in around the bullbar / body jion.

Cj, not in fron of the bull bar as 1. water pressure will cause the blind to collapse where it is not supported and 2. water will fill any void space from the sides (prevented by panels when blind is fitted to grill.
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Follow Up By: Rlbye - Friday, Feb 28, 2003 at 18:15

Friday, Feb 28, 2003 at 18:15
One thing that has me a bit loose in the pants is the idea of water and my darling GU Patrol...I get very nervous of thinking of water crossings when I am about to head up to the Cape in a month or two..I was thinking of making a blind and making it so it has eyelets in all the right spots to secure...so if I'm following all the talk properly.....it should go under the bonnet up to the top of the firewall...? can I cover the intercooler inlets...and how far under the car should it go??...I have a snorkel on .
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Follow Up By: Rlbye - Friday, Feb 28, 2003 at 18:29

Friday, Feb 28, 2003 at 18:29
One thing that gets me nervous and loose in the pants is the thought of water and my darling GU Patrol . I will be heading up to the Cape soon and am dreading the thought of water crossings....have a snorkel and was going to take some blue tarp for a blind but now I might make one to fit a bit more secure...If I read the forum right I should have it go under the bonnet up to the top of the firewall(over the intercooler fins??)and then have it go under the car ....How far??? .....and have it secured in as many spots as possible..
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FollowupID: 8473

Follow Up By: Member - Moggs - Friday, Feb 28, 2003 at 18:56

Friday, Feb 28, 2003 at 18:56
Rlbye, do not use a blue tarp - it will melt if the motor is warm. Go to somewhere like Kangaroo Tent City or a canvas shp and have a blind made out of canvas. I had one done 1.8m x 2m, fully hemmed in 12oz canvas with corner webb hooks made for $50. It also is great as a ground sheet for the kids, or for muddy recovery, or getting under the vehicle - many uses, and easy to clean. I don't like the idea of brass eyelets, they will scratch the car and can pull out - webbed corners are the go.

As for securing it - not really necessary if you tuck it in well - the water will hold it in place. I do sometimes use a few hockey straps to make sure. I put the blind all the way to the back and out the top of the bonnet - there is also good overhang on the sides. As for the front, I just tuck it down to bullbar height. The idea is to create an air bubble under the car, you don't need to seal the engine bay - I suppose I go down to about 1/2 engine height. It works, I have crossed rivers with wash over the bonnet and had a dry engine bay when the blind is removed.

As for the intercooler inlets - no idea sorry. With a blind and snorkel I can't see you having any problems - if your still worried carry the ever useful wd40 and use liberally. As you've got a snorkel I wouldn't worry about your air-filter element - we don't have a snorkel and use a uni-filter (easy to ring-out and re-install if wet.
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Follow Up By: Member - Moggs - Friday, Feb 28, 2003 at 19:16

Friday, Feb 28, 2003 at 19:16
Oh yeah, I would also recommend that if in doubt, wait for another vehicle to happen along prior to crossing (if your lucky you can get them to go first) Good idea to attach a snatch strap before entering and to loop it around a mirror or take it through a window - a lot easier than doing it under water (if it's not long enough, it's also easier to attach another for length above water level) - and a blind will only work if you have sufficient momentum to get the bow wave happening - don't stop - or if you do, make sure someone has the camera ready to record the recovery entertainment.

As for your 'darling GU' - it will look like a monkeys smacked a**e when you get back from the cape - plenty of battle scars will be evident - just don't do what a buddy of mine did and worry yourself out of a good time - my friend is going again now that he is over the 'scratch and ding fear' Hope you have a great trip.
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Follow Up By: Rob Berrill - Friday, Feb 28, 2003 at 20:47

Friday, Feb 28, 2003 at 20:47
Follow the simple rules with water crossings. Your preparation starts when you stop to toroughly check the crossing as your car is cooling down. Check entrance, depth, current, bottom format, obstacles and your exit. If in doubt walk it first if still in doubt don't do it. A blind is a big advantage but ask yourself, do I really have to go there? Is it worth the risk? Can I go there and come back safely?
Rlbye, depite what Moggs has told you it is very possible to go to the Cape and back and have a fantastic time, without a single scratch or even a stone chip if you use commonsense good technique and drive sensibly. I am bitterly disapointed if anyone on one of our trips does any damage at all to thier vehicle.
Cheers Rob
Cairns Offroad Training & Tours
www.4wdtraining.com
4wdtraining@cairns.net.au
www.cedarparkresort.com.au
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FollowupID: 8481

Follow Up By: Bruce.H - Friday, Feb 28, 2003 at 20:53

Friday, Feb 28, 2003 at 20:53
just aquick tip for gq owners make sure that you dont do water crossings with an empty fuel tank i found out the hard way that the empty tank on gq being so far back on the vehicle acts like a big floaty lifting the rear of the vehicle off the ground & pushing the front down into the water also if you doing lots of crossings fit a snorkel as a must
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FollowupID: 8482

Follow Up By: Member - Bob - Saturday, Mar 01, 2003 at 17:05

Saturday, Mar 01, 2003 at 17:05
Bruce, if your tank is empty you won't be going anywhere - let alone crossing rivers :-)
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FollowupID: 8533

Reply By: Member - Bob - Friday, Feb 28, 2003 at 16:42

Friday, Feb 28, 2003 at 16:42
I have heard of several examples where viscous coupling fans have propellered into the core of the radiator befor stopping. This has occurred in the Toyota 100 series TD, and the Discovery TD5.The blades are flexible and very close to the core. As the tips of the blades enter the water they slew forward until they embed themselves in the soft aluminium core. This can occur in quite shallow water where you wouldn't dream of using a fording apron. It only happens when the engine is running hot and the fan is engaged and spinning. Tying the fan blade so it can't spin will damage the viscous coupling.
AnswerID: 14174

Follow Up By: Truckster - Saturday, Mar 01, 2003 at 00:00

Saturday, Mar 01, 2003 at 00:00
If ya motors that hot that clutch fan is runnin, you should stop and wait anyway.. Both them cars you mentioned are Turbos.. If the themo is runnin then things are HOT inc the Turbo...
Turbo + cold water = Oh Shiat.!!

I like the idea of a temp mount of something like ply, or alloy with Rubber sheet on the front of it.... between fan and radiator.... that would work a treat.
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FollowupID: 8485

Follow Up By: Truckster - Saturday, Mar 01, 2003 at 00:04

Saturday, Mar 01, 2003 at 00:04
one word of warning for GQ owners

if you have the precleaner behind the headlight, take it out and check it, they are VERY WELL KNOWN for splitting UNDERNEATH where you cant see, thus letting in water thus KILLING YOUR MOTOR!

Ive done 4 now that were split.
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FollowupID: 8486

Reply By: Member - Willem- Friday, Feb 28, 2003 at 21:03

Friday, Feb 28, 2003 at 21:03
A million years ago or thereabouts we used have a slide-in plate on the old Suzuki two-stroke whereby you slide the plate in between the fan blades and the radiator core. I wonder if one could make something up like that? Maybe make a cut at the top of the air cowling and slide a piece of tin in. If the fan blades suck forward they just rub on the tin. Still got to use a blind to keep the water away from the distributor for petrol engines though. Cheers, W
AnswerID: 14189

Reply By: Truckster - Friday, Feb 28, 2003 at 23:58

Friday, Feb 28, 2003 at 23:58
CJ.
As Moggs said, it creates an air pocket before the motor. Then it can get around the sides of the tarp.

RLBYE.
Water in the car, it can happen, on the GU theres a hole or 2 in the flor from what I remember with no plugs in them! or if there were it sucked water in some how.
Have a Canvas tarp.. It can double as something to lay on the ground and lay on towork under the car if need be.

Yes over everythign in the engine bay, if you think of it as a second skin, like an inner bonnet. have it come out the back of the bonnet onto the firewall and all water that gets inwill come up the windscreen and out to nowhere causing no problems.

Rob also said it, see if theres another way around.

If not on with the Fishing Waders and walk the creek. but be careful, if your not used to them you can FLOAT! Check the creek 1st.
AnswerID: 14204

Reply By: Andrew - Saturday, Mar 01, 2003 at 08:48

Saturday, Mar 01, 2003 at 08:48
Very expensive ($1500) when my T/D 100s Landcruiser went for a dip in the shallows. I didn't think that the water would cause any problems as it was quite shallow (approx 500mm), well below their stated wading depth. In the 100s with independent suspension, once the water is above the level of the plate covering the engine bay underneath, the water really can only rise up and go through the radiator. With the live axle, it could flow over the front diff and not cause as much of a wave in front of the radiator. Thus problems can occur in very shallow water. I put this to Toyota but they still havent got back to me about it (about one month). Now the petrol models are IFS, I expect that we will see a few more problems in coming years unless they upgrade the fan (Maybe there is more room between fan and radiator on the petrol model). Incidentally, Toyota said that if you damage your car even in shallow water, the problem is yours. Stated wading depth seems meaningless. Next they might exclude off road use as well. I can almost hear them now, "sorry, the diff broke while off road - we cant cover that sort of thing. If you actually take it off road and something breaks - we what do you expect!"

I guess that what I have learnt is that you have to keep the engine revs low as possible (? 2H) so the fan won't propellor so much. I like the idea of the board or tin to stop the fan hitting the radiator but the aluminium fins on the radiator are so soft that brushing them with my finger (on the radiator with the hole that sits as a testimony with a wound like an old soldier in my garage) causes then to lean over reducing air flow. I have heard of people mounting a very short (10mm)cylindrical tube made of sheet metal ( like a ruler that has been joined end to end in a circle) that sits behind the radiator and doesnt obstruct airflow but will deflect the fan blades if they bend forward towards the radiator. At least it can stay in place all the time.

Happy 4wding

Andrew
AnswerID: 14219

Reply By: Voxson - Saturday, Mar 01, 2003 at 12:18

Saturday, Mar 01, 2003 at 12:18
Absolutely fantastic reading....
Thanks for all your replies...
It will make me look like an expert now.. :o)............

PS... The air pocket theory.... Excellent.....
AnswerID: 14228

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