Carrying Diesel Fuel in vehicle

Submitted: Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 00:38
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What are the dangers of carrying diesel in propper jerry cans inside a 4*4?
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Reply By: Member - Troll 81 (QLD) - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 05:03

Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 05:03
As far as I know it's illegal, I think there was a post on this topic not to long ago
AnswerID: 184397

Follow Up By: Wizard1 - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 12:39

Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 12:39
One should be careful using word like "illegal". This implied to do something contrary to or prohibited bylegislation. I've researched this at length, rather than go off half cocked. It appears that diesel is not classified, under the Dangerous Goods Code as a Flammable Liquid (Class 3) but a combustable. Next time you see a fuel tanker that is carrying diesel you will notice it is not placarded the same as one that carrys ULP, meaning there is no Class 3 signage.

Below is a copy of a reply to a similar question raised in a earlier post. It is quite extensive in its definitions and application to the carraige of fuels in containers. From what I can see as long as the liquid is in an Austarlian Standards approved container and is carried securily and is not likely to spill it is all good. However some of the legislation provides words of "caution" when carrying fuels in passenger compartments, but doe not prohibit such action. It is all down to duty of care and reassonable action.

If you find some legislation that proves other wise please provide it.

"The Australian Dangerous Goods Code (sixth edition) specifies that fuels are dangerous goods. Petrol is more flammable and dangerous than diesel, which is classified as a 'combustible' rather than a 'highly flammable' product. The ADGC goes on to say that the maximum permissible quantity of petrol that can be carried by a recreational vehicle, including camper trailers & caravans, for non-commercial purposes, is an aggregate total of 250 litres.

Theoretically, you can carry as much diesel as you like; however, there are some cautions here.

The 'aggregate quantity' referred to in ADGC(6) specifically excludes an approved fuel cell on the vehicle from its calculations. Therefore, a larger-capacity, extended-range tank that is approved for the purpose, is not required to be added to the aggregate quantity, nor is an original, factory fitted fuel tank.

Generally, extended-range tanks are designed to comply with Australian Design Rules (ADRs); however, some States have specific regulations that also must be complied with. Approved installers will be aware of these additional regulations if applicable.

WHERE CAN YOU CARRY IT?

The other question that causes much debate around the campfire is where on the vehicle these AS2906 fuel containers can be appropriately stowed. This is a greyer area, as some scenarios are simply not explicitly covered by existing regulations.

Furthermore, where State legislation is not specific, (as is the case with diesel), other general transport legislation, such as that covering operation of vehicles in a safe manner, comes into play.

This legislation refers to the 'duty of care' each vehicle operator must execute in order not to place passengers or other road users at risk.

This type of legislation covers modifications, safety issues and overloading, which is quite possible if you are carrying, say, 12x20-litre fuel containers in addition to recovery gear, camping gear and so on.

Have your vehicle and/or trailer weighed on a public weighbridge to ensure you are not overloading. Especially cheek the ball weight if you are loading jerry cans on the A frame of a trailer!

A further caution is that, like mixing drinks, mixing flammables is not recommended. Therefore, do not store LPG and fuel in the same area or space.

All these suggestions are otherwise known as exercising commonsense.

BEFORE YOU GO TO COURT

The normal test, in legal terms, is based on the notion of the 'reasonable person'. A magistrate (should) take a case on its merits and ask 'would a reasonable person have done/not done this'.
So, in the unlikely event of an accident, when insurers or victims are seeking to apportion 'blame', there is a very good reason for using AS2906-approved containers for carrying fuel, and for loading and transporting those containers as safely as possible.

The other issue with carrying fuel in containers on or in your vehicle is, obviously, the opinion of your insurer regarding such use. Take photographs of what and how you propose to carry additional fuel, and request approval in writing to do so from your insurer.

There are certain scenarios where previously approved (or at least, not un-approved) situations may no longer be valid. One of these is vehicles with jerry can holders on the bumpers or exterior of the vehicle. Under current legislation, these would appear to be illegal for fuel transportation under simple 'duty of care' provisions in transport legislation. In some States, bumper bar legislation could make even the brackets to carry the jerry cans illegal.

SO, YOU'VE GOT A TRAILER ?

Some States (such as Queensland) question the reasonableness of rear-mounted, or side-mounted jerry cans on trailers (including camper trailers and caravans) due to the potential hazard in an accident.

It should be fair to say that carrying fuel, in approved AS2906 containers, securely fixed or fastened inside the vehicle, would be less likely to cause legal problems than mounting the containers on the outside. On the A-frame is, apparently, considered 'inside' the external dimensions of a trailer. Of course, many trailers and probably all caravans, have a three-way (LPG-powered) fridge, which normally has a pilot light. Although the pilot light should be extinguished when travelling, storing fuel inside a vehicle so fitted would be considered extremely dangerous. Any fuel or fuel-vapour leak could create an explosive situation

WHAT ABOUT ROOF-RACKS?

Fuel stored on an approved roof luggage rack should be okay, provided it is in approved containers, is adequately constrained, and doesn't overload the vehicle's roof load limits or those specified by the rack's manufacturer.

So the bottom line is: do everything you possibly can to limit the risk of rupture or leakage. Use AS2906-approved containers and regularly check them for wear and tear. Pack them to prevent
chafing, preferably with a non-absorbent material, as this could, in turn, become a hazard in the event of leakage.

If using rope to secure containers, you should use synthetic rope, which is guaranteed resistant
to petroleum products. Manilla rope and cotton-based cord are absorbent.

Alternatively, you could use ratcheting tie-down straps but, again, cheek that the synthetic
webbing is resistant to petroleum products.

WHAT IS THE LAW?

WESTERN AUSTRALIA

The WA Dangerous Goods Act 1988, and Dangerous Goods (Transport) (Road and Rail) Regulations 1999, contains the relevant regulations, both of which are based on the Australian Dangerous Goods Code (ADGC), sixth edition.

The maximum permissible quantity is 250 litres of petrol, which should be carried in approved containers in either the boot or on external brackets. It can be carried within the passenger compartment, such as the back of a station wagon, in approved, properly restrained containers, but this is not recommended.
Contact the Explosives and Dangerous Goods Division of the WA Department of Mineral and Petroleum Resources for further into (08 9222 333)

QUEENSLAND

The Transport Operations (Road Use Management - Dangerous Goods) Regulation 1998 permits carrying up to 250 litres of dangerous goods (fuel) for personal use. The responsibility for filling a jerry can and ensuring it is an approved container lies with the person filling the container. Under the Transport Operations (Road Use Management) Act 1995 owners are prohibited from modifying their vehicle, its parts or equipment, and from carrying dangerous goods (irrespective of quantity or position), in an unsafe manner.

This includes carrying containers upright, ensuring they don't leak and are properly secured, and do not overload the vehicle (especially if transported on roof-racks). A booklet titled Load Restraint Guide (available from Commonwealth Government Bookshops) should be consulted
Write to: Greg Swann, Group Manager, Vehicle Safety and Industry Reform Section, Queensland Transport, PO Box 673 Fortitude Valley QLD 4006.

SOUTH AUSTRALIA

In South Australia, petrol is covered by the Dangerous Substances Act and Regulations, which are in turn based on the ADGC; therefore, the same 250- limit applies.

Diesel is unregulated, as elsewhere, but the Department for Administrative and Information Services advises that petrol (and diesel) transportation would be covered by the general duty of care provisions contained in Sections 11 and 12 of the Dangerous Substances Act.

The Road Traffic Act has provisions for duly of care relating to vehicle safety issues such as overhanging loads and impact protection. They also state that, while carrying fuel in the driver's vapour space (in a van or wagon), is much debated, it is up to each individual driver to assess their own risk and duty of care provisions when deciding whether to fit a range tank or carry fuel in jerry cans. Dangerous Substances Branch, Workplace Services (08) 8303 0447

VICTORIA

In Victoria, the relevant legislation is the Road Act 1995, which has been adopted from the, (Dangerous Goods) Act -1995 and the Road Transport (Dangerous Goods) Regulations.

The Regulations reference the ADGC under which Regulation 1.10 exempts small quantities of fuel from the rigours of the Dangerous Goods legislation. This refers, again, to petrol only. Diesel is not considered dangerous goods.

They maintain it is the responsibility of the driver items, regardless of type, are firmly and a fuel should be stored in AS2906 containers minimum requirement.
Write to: Victorian WorkCover Authority, Dangerous Goods Unit
GPO Box 4306 Melbourne Vic 3001

TASMANIA

The Tasmanian government refers these, issues to the Dangerous Goods (Road and Rail Transport) Regulations 1998, which covers general safety and load restraint safety.

The filling of fuel containers is also covered by AS1940 - Storage and Handling of Combustible and Flammable Liquids. They advise that a person can carry 250 litres of petrol for private use (as per the ADOC), but the containers must meet AS2906 Fuel Containers/Portable/Plastics and Metal.

Tasmanian Vehicle and Traffic (Vehicle Standards) that an object fitted to a vehicle must be designed, built and maintained to minimise the likelihood of injury. As such, this would prohibit the fitting of jerry cans containing dangerous or explosive substances to any vehicle (car,4WD, caravan, trailer), especially given the likelihood of rear or side-impact collisions.

Owners of vehicles should check the 'fine print' of their insurance policies. If fuel is
transported in an unsafe manner and an accident leads to greater damage or injury than might otherwise have been the case apportion blame to the driver and/or invalidate the policy.
Write to: The Department of Infrastructure, Energy and Resources,
GPO BOX 936 HOBART TAS 7001.

NEW SOUTH WALES

The NSW Environment Protection Authority (EPA) and WorkCover NSW are the competent authorities for dangerous goods control in NSW. They' administer the Road and Rail Transport (Dangerous Goods) Act 1997 and the Road Transport Reform (Dangerous Goods) (NSW) Regulations 1998.

Under these laws, jerry cans must be approved containers for the transport of Class 3 liquids (petrol) (ie, AS2906) and the maximum permissible quantity is 250 litres. Diesel is not considered a dangerous good, but a combustible, and must be carried in a safe manner.

Division 9.3.1 (1) (e) of the ADGC states that 'if the package (ie, jerry can) contains
dangerous goods of a kind that may lead to the formation of flammable, toxic or other harmful atmospheres - the package must be stowed so that no harmful atmosphere will accumulate in the cabin If the package leaks'.

The above would indicate that great care should be taken when storing jerry cans inside a 4WD's luggage compartment, whether it is a separate boot or part of the passenger compartment. AS2906 containers are designed not to vent to the atmosphere, provided they are in good condition and the seals/lids are functioning correctly.

Write to: NSW Environment Protection Authority
Dangerous Goods Office
59-61 Goulburn St, Sydney NSW 2000.

NORTHERN TERRITORY.

Only containers which comply with Northern Territory Dangerous Goods Regulation 217 can be used to transport flammable, (petrol.) and combustible (diesel) fuels. Essentially, this covers containers complying with AS1533/34 and AS1 940, but 'approved container' is also specified which indicates that containers complying with AS2906 would also be acceptable.

The Northern Territory Dangerous Goods legislation is b ADGC, which specifies that not more than 250 litres of petrol can be carried. No quantity is specified for diesel.

Information bulletins are available at www.nt.gov.au/cbb/wha or contact
The Department of Industries and Business, Work Health (08) 8999 511 8

AUSTRALIAN CAPITAL TERRITORY

The transport of fuel is covered under the Dangerous Goods Act. 1975, Dangerous, Goods Regulations 1978, Road Transport Reform (Dangerous Goods) Act 1995 and Road Transport (Dangerous Goods) Regulations. The latter takes its requirements from the ADGC.

The DGA (1975) Section, 12 and 14 require fuel to be carried in appropriate, containers to prevent spillage or leakage, and make it an offence to carry fuel in a manner likely to cause death/injury, or damage to property.

Section 37(1) of the RTR (DIG) Act1 1995 requires fuel be transported in a safe manner.
Sub Section (2) makes it an offence to do so where a person "ought to have known" that what they were doing was unsafe or likely to cause damage to persons or property.
Contact: ACT WorkCover (Dangerous Goods) (02) 6207 6354."

Wizard
Gold Coast
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FollowupID: 441126

Follow Up By: Member No 1- Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 15:28

Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 15:28
thanks wizard
may be this should be on a seperate page somewhere herein ...under trip planning?
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FollowupID: 441164

Follow Up By: Rick (S.A.) - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 17:46

Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 17:46
Thanks for the effort with this, Wizard.
I have cut & pasted it into my files. Good reference stuff.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 441217

Reply By: Noel W (Qld) - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 05:49

Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 05:49
My recent inquiries of the QLD D.O.T. were that up to 200 ltrs of "fuel" could be carried in or on a vehicle before additional signage and safety precautions had to be taken.

As far as 'dangers' go, simple - keep all fumes and liquid contained and containers suitably restrained.

Cheers
AnswerID: 184398

Follow Up By: On Patrol - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 06:30

Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 06:30
But not inside the vehicle!!!!
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FollowupID: 441051

Follow Up By: Gerry - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 10:01

Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 10:01
My landcruiser holds 270 litres in the main + long range tanks. Does that mean I'm supposed to put warning stickers all over it?
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FollowupID: 441101

Follow Up By: Max - Sydney - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 16:33

Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 16:33
Main problem putting it inside - it stinks! No matter how much to AS the containers are.

Just ask my managing partner.

Max
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FollowupID: 441181

Reply By: Kiwi Kia - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 07:44

Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 07:44
If it's a warm day in the vehicle the diesel stinks if you spill even a few drops down the outside or around the cap when filling the containers. Avoid if you can.
AnswerID: 184401

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 08:18

Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 08:18
#1 jerry cans are heavy and need to be well restrained - preferably behind and strapped to a cargo barrier.
#2 if you spill some, it stinks for ages. I tend to have it sit on cardboard so the slightest of spillages are mopped up.
#3 Diesel is flammable but not explosive, so its a heap safer than petrol and LPG.
#4 On corrugations, jerries can rub and wear their sides out - some people slip something between them - a slice of rubber inner tube or ply. With plastic cans, I don't bother.
#4 I am a fan of plastic jerry cans after using steel for years. The screw tops seal a lot better. I'd throw the spout thing away - 3in1 funnel with gauze filter works much better for me.
AnswerID: 184410

Reply By: Member No 1- Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 08:23

Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 08:23
diesel vapours are not explosive like petrol...BUT it is still very flamable!
i guess it would also stink as per above

as to carrying fuel inside vehicle being illegal or not i dunno...
but if troll and patrol are correct then, every one who goes to fill up the fuel can for the lawn mower in a station wagon type car (or even if its sedan and they put the can on floor inside) is committing the offence....unless there is a limit..is that 200litres?.....or 10 litres or 5 litres ...or 0 litres

if zero,
would fuels like shellite, white spirits, turpentine, kero and metho included in the offence...every person who does the weekly shopping would have broken the law at some stage then
AnswerID: 184411

Follow Up By: Member - Coyote (SA) - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 09:34

Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 09:34
how about all those station wagon cabs with the gas tank in the rear cargo area???
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FollowupID: 441092

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 13:14

Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 13:14
Coyote,
I think you'll find the gas tank connections are vented to the outside.
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FollowupID: 441136

Follow Up By: Member No 1- Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 15:27

Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 15:27
yep...
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FollowupID: 441163

Reply By: mfewster - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 08:57

Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 08:57
Not quite on the topic, but a very useful tip for carrying jerry cans, whether inside or out. Get a LARGE truck /tractor tyre that has been holed and is being thrown out by your local tyre supplier. Cut length sout of it that are almost the length of a jerrycan. Stretch these like condoms over the jerries. The curve in the tyre isn't sufficient over the length of a jerry to be a problem.They make a great lightweight cover to prevent rubbing and rattling of the cans.
AnswerID: 184419

Follow Up By: Member - Coyote (SA) - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 09:36

Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 09:36
I just glued a bit of excess marine carpet from my draw system to the side of one jerry. that way when the 2 of them are on the roof they don't rattle or rub etc..
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FollowupID: 441093

Reply By: Dirty Smitty - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 09:17

Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 09:17
Diesel is not explosive??????? I have seen static electricity set diesel off and yes it pretty much exploded. Never fill a jerry can with fuel that is not earthed properly.
AnswerID: 184422

Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 09:54

Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 09:54
The Drip Torch Fuel used by the Rural Fire Service is a mixture of Diesel and Petrol. - you can light it with a match at room temperature, and it will burn, but only just.

Diesel will only explode at normal temperatures if it has been compressed enormously in a Diesel engine.

Mike
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FollowupID: 441099

Reply By: Member - Mike DID - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 10:12

Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 10:12
Surprisingly, this issue has been covered before here !

Site Link

Mike
AnswerID: 184431

Follow Up By: Noel W (Qld) - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 11:16

Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 11:16
Sums it up nicely.
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FollowupID: 441110

Reply By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 19:09

Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 19:09
Bloody hell, illegal?? Pfft. I've been carrying two Jerrys of diesel around with me since I've owned a diesel 4by.

It's much safer than carrying ULP.

I was once at a servo where the guy testing the diesel had a fag hanging out of his mouth while he was dipping the rod!

Nowa days I still carry two jerries of diesel, but it's biodiesel so it's even safer!!

Just do it, but as mentioned wipe off any spillige on the side and let it sit for a while if you do spill some on the outside of the jerry before packing it as it can stink quite badly, but unlike ULP it might smell but it won't ignite.
AnswerID: 184533

Reply By: Member - Davoe (Nullagine) - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 20:44

Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 20:44
regulary carry at least one jerry inside (plastic) and last trip carried 2
didnt stink and didnt explode and the coppers never pulled me over and booked me etc etc etc
AnswerID: 184560

Reply By: ross - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 20:46

Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 20:46
Carrying diesel in a car is as risky as carrying cooking oil.
Maybe thats an exaggeration as cooking oil has to be warmed up to run in a diesel unless its been converted to biodiesel.

As to the original question,I would have no problem carrying diesel inside car provided it wasnt fuming or leaking

There is worse things you can carry ,like passengers who wont shut up ;)
AnswerID: 184561

Reply By: Dirty Smitty - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 21:01

Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 21:01
This Site Link should provide some good reading for those who doubt the dangers of static discharge and fuel. It now makes sense all that studying that I did during my FQC course (Fuel Quality Control) and perhaps that is why I had to ground all those fuel tankers that I worked on with static straps/earth leads way back when I worked on them. But hey, by all means transport your diesel fuel however you like, then when something goes wrong you only have yourself to blame. Regards, Dirty.
AnswerID: 184562

Reply By: D-Jack - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 21:54

Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 21:54
I've tried lighting diesel up with a cig lighter and burnt my finger - on the cigarette lighter because it got too hot! The diesel still didn't light. Takes a fair bit of heat me would thinks. I reckon the only danger you'd be in carrying it in a car is if the car caught on fire and you didn't get out on time (for a long time!)

Just my uneducated, misinformed opinion

D-Jack
AnswerID: 184573

Reply By: Morry(W.A) - Friday, Jul 21, 2006 at 15:43

Friday, Jul 21, 2006 at 15:43
You can carry deisol in you car if you want to ,your the one that has to put up with the smell! at this time in acordance with the ADG volume 6 book 1 Chap 7 it states that diesol is not a DG unless it is in bulk ie greater than 500L.In chap 10 it states you can carry upto 1000L ie in two 450L containers and still not be a DG or as many jerrys up to the volume of 1000L, any thing over needs to be plackarded. Also one last thing it states that deisol is a combustable liquid as its flash point is around 64 to be a flamible liquid its flash point needs to be 62.5 or under .this can be found in chap 2 par 10 sub 1+2. Just my opinion.
Cheers
Morry
AnswerID: 184670

Reply By: Member - Mike DID - Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 14:34

Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 14:34
Note that Diesel is low flammability and Petrol is high flammability.

Despite the high flammability of petrol vapours, I have never seen any petrol station around the world that suggests earthing practices to avoid static discharge danger e.g earthing the car body before opening the fuel tank.

Obviously the risk is minimal - but not zero. I know someone who saw his family die before him when his vehicle burst into flames when he was filling with petrol. I'm sure there are other examples, but it seems the Coroner has not seen it necessary to change safety practices for Service Stations.

Mike

======================================

Site Link

Flammability of Vapor-Air Mixtures
The flammability of a hydrocarbon vapor-air mixture depends on its vapor pressure, flash point and temperature. These properties are used to classify petroleum products whose electrical resistivities are high enough to enable them to accumulate significant electrostatic charges under certain handling conditions. Following are the three petroleum product Vapor Pressure Classifications, including common examples:

1. Low – Those with a closed cup flash point above 100°F (38°C).
- These products do not develop flammable vapors under normal handling
conditions. However, conditions for ignition may exist, if handled at temperatures above their flash points, are contaminated with higher vapor-pressure materials, or are transferred into containers where vapors are at concentrations at or above those necessary to produce a flammable mixture.
- Examples: #2 Fuel Oil; Kerosene, Diesel, Jet Fuel A (commercial),Motor Oil, Asphalt, and Safety Solvents

2. Intermediate – Those with a closed-cup flash point below 100°F (38°C).
- These products may create a flammable mixture in the vapor space at ambient
temperatures.
- Examples: Xylene, Benzene, Toluene, Jet B (commercial), JP-4 (military), and
Stoddard Solvents

3. High – Those with a Reid Vapor pressure above 4.5 psi absolute (31 kilopascals).
- These products, under normal handling temperatures in a closed vapor space,
will rapidly produce a mixture too rich to be flammable. However, in some areas, a vapor space may pass through the flammable range before becoming too rich.
- Examples: Motor and Aviation Gasolines, and high vapor pressure Naphthas
AnswerID: 185031

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