Bad experience with Cooper ATR
Submitted: Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 13:11
ThreadID:
35997
Views:
4270
Replies:
14
FollowUps:
23
This Thread has been Archived
Patrol_Driver
Hi,
I recently bought a set of Cooper ATRs for my GUIII Patrol in preparation for an outback trip. The tyre size is 267X70R16, bascially the stock size for TD3.0 Patrol.
Prior to purchase, I was told about the various features of the Cooper tyres including strong sidewalls that "stand up straighter" and also deeper tread.
To my surprise and disappointment, they do not "stand up straighter", in fact they bulge quite significantly more than the standard Bridgestone Duellers that is shipped with the Patrol, I know this because I had to fit the spare wheel with the Bridgestone on the car and was able to compare to the Cooper under the same load and air pressure.
Running at 20 psi across the Simpson was a scary experience with the ATRs, the sidewalls were very close to the ground, my companions with Goodyear Grand
Treks and Yokohama Geolanders running the same pressure did not have the same degree of bulging. In fact, each time we stopped, we checked my tyres because they actually looked punctured of deflated! Needless to say, with the bulging so prounouced, I eventually staked the RH rear tyre and this was after I increased the pressure to 24psi as soon as I could to reduce the bulging.
Running at 30psi on the rocky outback roads (as advised by the locals) also saw the sidewalls bulging. Whilst doing 60km/h on a track in the Flinders, the left rear tyre had the sidewall torn open, again not surprising considering the amount of bulging.
The final insult was running at 40psi on the blacktop where the Bridgestone spare continued to have straighter sidewalls than the Coopers.
I did a similar trip on Bridgestones 2 years before and had zero problems, this time with the Coopers I had 1 tyre puncture and 1 totally destroyed. I also noticed significant chipping in the outer tread on the one rear tyre running on the freeway at 40psi and doing 100km/h, this has never happened to any other tyre on that wheel before.
I will be trying anothe brand of tyre from now on!
Reply By: TerraFirma - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 14:28
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 14:28
I'm surprised you bought another brand after the Bridgestones..? Surprising I would have thought with the Coopers, according to your report they wouldn't get you very far. I've had no problems with my Coopers but haven't done a trip across the Simpson.!
I think any brand of tire is susceptible to sidewall damage depending on the conditions, stay with Bridgestone if you think they are better.
AnswerID:
184473
Follow Up By: Patrol_Driver - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 14:34
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 14:34
I changed from bridgestone after two sets because they seemed to wear out pretty quickly (about 30,000km/set). Was hoping to get better mileage out of the tyres and the tyre dealer said Coopers was the go.
I'm reporting my experiences specifically on the ATR model and only on the 265/70R16 size. I've also run Cooper ATs and found them to chip terribly after an offfroad trip.
Do you run Cooper ATRs?
FollowupID:
441150
Reply By: Member - Bware (Tweed Valley) - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 14:42
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 14:42
Fancy that
AnswerID:
184478
Reply By: Member - Stan (VIC) - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 14:55
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 14:55
Ah Coopers....
Just get Goodyear MTRs next time and don't listen to their advertising....
AnswerID:
184482
Follow Up By: Patrol_Driver - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 14:59
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 14:59
Hi Stan
I have an almost identical photo of my Cooper ATR!! Disappointingly thin sidewalls.
FollowupID:
441156
Follow Up By: Moggs - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 15:06
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 15:06
Nice one Stan - I am sure any tyre that has a failure and then is driven on will tear out the sidewall like the one in your photo.
Yes, obviosly the STT failed....but c'mon....it is also obvious that it did a few revolutions flat.
BTW, I have used Coopers for years - never had an issue so I am yet to be convinced they are not a good tyre ;)
FollowupID:
441158
Follow Up By: Moggs - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 15:18
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 15:18
BTW, agree with you that the MTR's are a great tyre.
FollowupID:
441159
Follow Up By: Member No 1- Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 15:21
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 15:21
what a bloody good advert hehehe
FollowupID:
441161
Follow Up By: Moggs - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 15:59
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 15:59
LOL....combine that with Crazie's pics of his ST and it doesn't look too good for Coopers.
Not sure whether it needs to get posted in every "Coopers" thread though.
......might have to go searching for an MTR blowout photo and post it up everytime they are mentioned ;-)
FollowupID:
441168
Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 16:03
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 16:03
Hey Moggy, gimme a better photo of them rims, wanna replace the alloys with something...
FollowupID:
441170
Follow Up By: Moggs - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 16:23
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 16:23
Hi Truckster, don't have a better photo at the moment. Can take some for you or you can come over for a look-see - pick up the bumper ends as
well??? Just let us know.
BTW, They are Dynamic Black Steel Rims from Simex4x4 (www.simex4x4.com) down on Ferntree Gully Road at Scoresby. $110 each. Happy with that seeing as I sold the GU factory steel rims for $50 each - so $60 changeover ain't bad. Guess if you go something similar you will make some $$selling the alloys!
FollowupID:
441175
Follow Up By: Member - Stan (VIC) - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 17:24
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 17:24
"Nice one Stan - I am sure any tyre that has a failure and then is driven on will tear out the sidewall like the one in your photo. "
Moggs,
We had stuffed MTR on the same trip, which was driven on for a while as
well. The result is bulged sidewall in MTR, but it didn't disintegrate like STT did and didn't even had a crack on sidewall - at least not the one that could be seen :)
FollowupID:
441213
Follow Up By: dieseltojo - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 17:32
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 17:32
Hi Stan, Thats my tyre alright, and yes I did run it to a stand still From 80 Kph after a
rock cut a hole through thesupposedly the strongest side walls in the business.Out of nine vehicles I was also the only one with 3 side wall penetrations as
well.all vehicles had similar tyre pressures.The Cooper tyre rep contacted me today and said I just had bad luck.
Regards,Paul Klat.
Melbourne ,Vic,Australia.
Toyota LC. 2004 TD
Too many extras to mention.
FollowupID:
441215
Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 18:38
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 18:38
Ummm ..... Moggs, if you are doing say, 90kmh when the tyre lets go, how do you not do a "few revolutions" before you stop?
Personally, after my experiences, I wouldn't put
Coopers on a wheelbarrow!
FollowupID:
441230
Follow Up By: Moggs - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 19:58
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 19:58
No problems Stan, but different surface, weight of vehicle, temperature of tyre, speed, type of hole would all be factors in whether a staked tyre at speed turns inot a 'bulge' or complete tear. Just saying I don't think it is a blanket 'Cooper STT's are no good' incident.
Shaker, didn't mean it as saying 'you shouldn't have driven on it'. Of course there will be a 'few revolutions' to pull up. You must have a flash wheelbarrow ;-)
FollowupID:
441241
Follow Up By: Member - Stan (VIC) - Friday, Jul 21, 2006 at 10:25
Friday, Jul 21, 2006 at 10:25
Moggs, both are TD cruisers, heavy loaded, one with MTRs was going about 100km/hour, going on the same outback roads. The only diffrence which comes
to mind is that one was whilte and another one was silver ;).
I am not saying STT are no good, just I would not be taking any of them into the
remote outback trips/gibber country...
FollowupID:
441335
Follow Up By: Member - Stan (VIC) - Friday, Jul 21, 2006 at 10:28
Friday, Jul 21, 2006 at 10:28
"The Cooper tyre rep contacted me today and said I just had bad luck."
Paul, so he said you had bad luck that you bought
Coopers? ;)
FollowupID:
441336
Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, Jul 21, 2006 at 16:35
Friday, Jul 21, 2006 at 16:35
QUOTE: "Paul, so he said you had bad luck that you bought
Coopers? ;)"
Stan, was that question directed at me? If it was this is what happened ........
The Cooper State (VIC) Manager, after inspecting my tyres told me he would honour a 50% discount of the next set, when I said that I would orgaise it straight away, he told me that as my tyres were of no value to him, to use them until my next Outback trip later that year & then he would allow the 50% rebate.
Guess what! ........... It didn't happen!
FollowupID:
441377
Reply By: Member - andrew B (Kununurra) - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 15:29
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 15:29
Gday Patrol Driver
What Bridgestones gave poor mileage. I've got 60,000 km so far out of a set of 693's (6tyres, 1 shredded very early, another a couple of weeks ago on the Gibb). There is still plenty of meat left in the tread, so no complaints really. My local Bridgestone Tyre Retailer (
Kununurra) is very reluctant to sell anything but the 265/75R16s, the ones made in aust. He even said the 265/70R16 aren't much chop. I have a friend with these and will struggle to get 50,000km out of it.
The last thing I want is to get into a tyre debate (can be almost as nausiating as a toyota/nissan one). I always read the tyre threads though for idea's on what to get next, but I don't think I'll change brands. I do like the BF Goodridges though......
Cheers Andrew
AnswerID:
184485
Follow Up By: Patrol_Driver - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 16:50
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 16:50
1st set were the 265/70R16 D693 from Japan. Second set were the D694 265/70R16s from Japan. I thought the grip was excellent and they were also quiet on the blacktop but they just wore away so quickly, especially whenever I went offroad and I'm quite a conservative driver as I usually have my whole family with me.
FollowupID:
441197
Reply By: Troop-a-dour - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 15:51
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 15:51
Not trying to hijack this thread but-
Just a comment on the Bridgestones...
A mate was very impressed with the low wear rate and all round performance of my 693 tyres. He fitted a set to his vehicle (same size & pattern) but was dissappointed.
Mine are the Aussie ones- his are the Jap ones. Same tread pattern, but different shoulder angles, different wall constuction, and very different ride/handling characteristics.
Mine are still healthy at 80000km- his are looking sad at 48000km.
AnswerID:
184491
Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 16:15
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 16:15
I'm also a fan of the Bridgestones.
Got 65,000 out of a pair of 694 Duelers and have since replaced them with 693's because I liked the look of the tread pattern better.
Other pair of 694's have a bit of life left in them yet, eventually will be replaced with 693's also.
The best tyre of all IMO is
the Desert Dueler (604) but the sizes are somewhat limited.
AnswerID:
184501
Reply By: Moggs - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 16:43
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 16:43
Interesting re: The Bridgestones. I had a set of D693's on the Pathfinder and they wore fast (245/70/16's) I changed them after a trip to
Bendethera with the Pathfinder Club - 5 vehicles - 1 with ST's, 3 with Bridgestone Highway tyres (standard on a Pathy) and myself with the Bridgestone AT (D693). I had 2 punctures on the trip - no-one else had any - and we were all running simliar pressures - coincidence???? - maybe - but it put me off them for good.
AnswerID:
184506
Reply By: Darren C - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 19:25
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 19:25
Interestingly I was also told the same story when the dealer swapped the original Bridgestones for
Coopers (265/70/17s) on our GU IV.....stronger sidewalls etc but was also a little disappointed with the 'bulge' - pleased with the tyres overall in terms of wear etc but they havent really been exposed to any danger of staking etc (mainly beach driving). Havent noticed any chipping yet but its only done 20,000kms
Cheers
AnswerID:
184537
Reply By: South - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 20:26
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 20:26
The ATR 265/70/16 is a 'Passenger Construction' tyre, its not built for the tough stuff. If you want to tour then your going to need a 'Light Truck Construction' tyre. Go up a size in the Cooper ATR range and you get there... alternatively find another manufacturer that provides the standard size in an LT.
AnswerID:
184549
Follow Up By: Member - Timothy N (NSW) - Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 15:29
Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 15:29
YES,YES,YES. This is by far THE MOST IMPORTANT comment on this whole thread.
It seems to me that most people still do not understand tyre construction, and after putting on the wrong construction (i.e. passenger rated tyres instead of Light Truck) then proceed to blame the tyre make.
FollowupID:
441506
Reply By: Brew69(SA) - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 20:31
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 20:31
Oh dear....the archives are full of disgruntled
Coopers owners. If only you searched the archives first. Yeah there are some on here who rave about them.....but most will never fit them again.
AnswerID:
184553
Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 20:34
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 20:34
Can't have everything in a tyre. The only way to get high mileage, is by having thin sidewalls because heat is the major cause of tyre wear.
AnswerID:
184554
Follow Up By: Off-track - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 22:46
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 22:46
Then why do BFG AT's get very high mileage when they have probably the toughest sidewalls - 3ply?
Just over 100,000km on my last set.
Coopers...pffft.
FollowupID:
441282
Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 23:19
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 23:19
BFG are not the toughest sidewalls. Take a BFGATKO off the rim and feel the sidewall, then do the same with an MTR. They are both "3 ply" but the MTR are thicker, and in practice more
puncture resistant. And if you run both on the highway, I'm sure you'll get more
miles out of the BFG.
FollowupID:
441286
Reply By: D-Jack - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 21:15
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 21:15
I have had a set of ATRs in a 245/75 LT profile for about 10000 kms now. I have done mainly beach driving, but the tracks and routes to get there are often very rocky and rooty (if you know what I mean). I let the ATRs down to about 28 on rock/dirt and travel at decent speeds (keen to get a line in the
water), and 15 on Sand. 40+ on Hightway (depending on load). I must say, I agree with the sidewall bulging comment and was a bit disappointed at very low inflations (on sand), but they hardly differ from highway pressures at 28 PSI. As for chipping and cutting, I have none. and that is after a couple of trips running along the
cliff tops at Pt
Lincoln national park, and the Far West Coast (
Yalata and beyond). and one way all dirt from
Gammon Ranges (very rocky and heaps of gibber
rock creek crossing some taken way too fast!)
South has a good point, the LT construction tyres would be much heavier duty and naturally will not bulge as readily due to thicker sidewalls. The downside is a bumpier ride at higher pressures. I haven't even seen a scratch on my sidewall having run them at 28PSI on rocky roads.
I have to say, this is the first bad report I have heard of on the ATRs. Plenty on other models (ST, STT etc), but I was glad for my sake that the ones Patrol Driver was running were not LT construction, but sorry for him that he had to find out the hard way.
My 245/75/16 LTs cost $10 each more for a LT constuction. I was fortunate enough to have LT as an option with that size though.
Patrol Driver, your concerns are duly noted by all and I'm sure it will help others in making decisions with tyres.
D-Jack
AnswerID:
184565
Follow Up By: Patrol_Driver - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 22:07
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 22:07
Hi D-Jack,
I have tried LT tyres before and like you quite rightly said, they are much tougher and also a bit more uncomfortable on corrugated roads. I also found them to be noisier.
In the case of the ATR purchase, I fell for the marketing blurb and the tyre dealership assuring me that the new ATRs would suit my needs in the standard size...live and learn :-(
I'm not emotionally attached to any particular brand of tyre so will continue trying out various makes, I will give BFG a go next and see how I fare with them. I live in the hope that I will find a tyre that will suit my needs one of these days. Preferably before the bank account dries up!
FollowupID:
441271
Reply By: JR - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 21:47
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 21:47
All,
No one seems to note what ply rating they are buying
I have run four sets of coopers ST and am very happy however I use 10 ply rated and have never had an issue. I get around 80-100 thous K from a set.
In certain LT sizes they only have 6 ply walls and then theres the passenger without rating
I suggest only 10ply rated or similar should be used for heavily loaded desert type trips
Currently using ST-C and would buy them again except they arent availiable in 17"
JR
AnswerID:
184571
Follow Up By: D-Jack - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 22:17
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 22:17
Might be wrong, but isn't the 10 ply relating to tread and not walls?
FollowupID:
441274
Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (SA) - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 22:28
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 22:28
Hi D-Jack
You are correct. The 10 ply rating is in the tread, and the side wall ply is 3. It clearly states this.
Stephen
FollowupID:
441276
Follow Up By: Member - Stan (VIC) - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 23:03
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 23:03
The ply rating doesn't mean anything this days.
The 3 ply sidewall in GoodYear MTR is 50% thicker than BFG AT.
The 3 ply sidewall in Cooper STT is 25% thinner than GoodYear MTR....
FollowupID:
441284
Reply By: Billowaggi - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 22:56
Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 22:56
Have just done big trip with Cooper ATR 255x70x16 LT on RA Rodeo, we did part of Canning, Garry
Junction Rd , Plenty Hwy, Simpson, and Great CentralRd 9,000k in all and had no tyre [tire??] problems, small amount of chipping on rears was understandable, ran 20psi over dunes in the Simpson and Canning.
Regards Ken.
AnswerID:
184588