A few questions for diesel owners...

Submitted: Friday, Jul 21, 2006 at 23:14
ThreadID: 36050 Views:2629 Replies:9 FollowUps:14
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After reading a few threads about algae in diesel, I was wondering about a few things; firstly, the facts about this stuff. Can this stuff develop in your tank of clean fuel, or do you need to pick up a batch of infected fuel (probably a moot point since you never know what is going into your tank). What about the theory of keeping your tanks as full as possible to reduce the condensation which promotes its growth? It's hard to keep the tanks full on a tight budget! Any other facts welcomed.
Secondly, How many of you that haven't had this problem (or don't know you have this problem!),
1) do something preventative like use an additive etc
2) never think about it
3) think about it but fall very short of conclusive action due to lack of understanding/facts
Just curious as the subject has caught my attention and my brother just had the problem and was told to keep his tanks full. I don't know any other details about his problem at this stage, but I was thinking that getting the problem fixed at your local mechanic is fine , but for advice on the issue someone that maybe works in fuel R&D or similar would give better advice. After all these years of believing in the superior reliability of diesels, do the petrol-heads have something to throw at us?
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Reply By: cokeaddict - Friday, Jul 21, 2006 at 23:28

Friday, Jul 21, 2006 at 23:28
ok can asnwer some of ur q's .......
A to Q 1)...I dont use additives ..never have

You said its hard to keep tank full on a tight budget, Not quite correct...sooner or later u put fuel in it, so why not sooner than later. I keep mine full all time 145 ltrs. When i do a trip i run it to as close as empty as i can then fill it up again.

When im home, i fill it, run to work and back, usually takes me 3 to 4 weeks to get down to 1/4 or empty, fill it again and wait another month before the next service station fill.

But getting back to ur comment....fill it up, and instead of waiting for it to empty out, keep filling it when the needle starts to move off full. Its the same thing as ur doing now...only difference is, you keep it full rather than wait for it to empty. Only down side to that is..if its stolen, they havea full tank to drive around with.

I run aftermarket fuel filter on mine. I get approx 50,000 to 60,00 kms between filter changes and i always hacksaw the old filter before i toss it out to see whats in there. Worst ive ever had is discoulouring on the filter paper. So that tells me the bulk of my fuel purchase is from a reliable source (my local caltex). Never had an issue with fuel in both my GQ's to date.
Ange
AnswerID: 184743

Follow Up By: Aandy(WA) - Friday, Jul 21, 2006 at 23:49

Friday, Jul 21, 2006 at 23:49
How do you keep it "full all time" but run it to 1/4r empty in 3-4 weeks coke? Really has me puzzled why you think your tank is always full!!
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Follow Up By: Sarg - Friday, Jul 21, 2006 at 23:49

Friday, Jul 21, 2006 at 23:49
Why cart all that extra weight in fuel around? Surely it effects your economy in the long run. I've got a 135 lt LR tank & unless I am going on a trip , I refuel as if it was a standard 65 lt tank.
Getting back to the original Q. Yes I use a fuel additive : Flashlube Diesel Conditioner. Don't know whether it does any good or not, but just seems to run better with it. No: Never had an algae problem.
I do the same as Co-Co, run an inline filter before the main, get a good run out of the main & check the guts of the filters at change intervals. I change the inline at 5K's,(same as engine oil & filter).
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Follow Up By: Member - Bware (Tweed Valley) - Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 00:00

Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 00:00
Thanks Ange. I've kept my last filter but haven't checked it out yet. In regards to filling the tanks; I agree with you but my point about budget is that once you run the tanks low because you're on a tight budget it costs a fortune to fill them again. Sure, once they're full I can choose to fill them on payday weekly and keep them topped up, but when they're both on the 1/4 mark it will cost me about $150 to top them up (rough estimate) which cuts into the DVD hire and chocolate fund!
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Follow Up By: Member - Bware (Tweed Valley) - Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 00:13

Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 00:13
Thanks Sarge, the idea of inline filters is appealing (oil and fuel) and I have read plenty of positive things about them. Also agree with your weight issue with fuel and only have thought differently considering the above issue. If it doesn't hold water I would definitely do my general running around on 1/2 tank or less.
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Reply By: Aandy(WA) - Friday, Jul 21, 2006 at 23:56

Friday, Jul 21, 2006 at 23:56
Wouldn't worry too much about it Bware. I have a long history with diesels and have many friends who run diesels both privately and commercially and have not even heard of the alleged problem. I can tell you that algae will not grow without light so the folk with the alleged algae problem must have clear tanks!!
AnswerID: 184748

Follow Up By: Member - Bware (Tweed Valley) - Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 00:04

Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 00:04
I like that! Or the refineries must have huge glass or perspex tanks.
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Follow Up By: Kiwi Kia - Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 06:58

Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 06:58
***** ...put your own words in there! "alleged problem" It costs mega bucks and it grows in the dark JUST LIKE MUSHROOMS !!!! So there goes one of your theorys.

If you have not even heard of the problem then you have led a very sheltered life - litterally ! Climate has a big influence on where and how the problem occurs so in part it can depend on where you live.

How do you avoid condensation? Garageing, dry air, no large temp changes over a short period.... the list goes on. If no one in your area has had the bug then you are not likely to ever get it also. However, you could take on a load of infected fuel somewhere and then park up for a while in a damp climate with hot days and cold nights and then find that you have got the problem.

The agae often occurs in above ground storage tanks that do not have a frequent turnover of contents (run down / fill up) and are subject to large temp change like over night very cold. This situation is not uncommon on farms.

There is of course one more addition to the above - you have to be infected with the bug as well as having the right conditions for it to "bloom". I don't think it is as common these days as it used to be. Maybe oil companies are using additives that help prevent it these days and also using work practices that help prevent cross contamination which will avoid the bug being spread around.

Filters only help limit the extent of the problem they don't get rid of it.
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Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 13:52

Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 13:52
" You have to be infected with the bug", Spot on !! have operated earthmoving equiptment for years used thousands of litres over time, and about 6yrs ago there where companys selling fuel which was subject to this problem. Ive seen it pulled out of afuel line like a lenght of silicone. But as stated its controlled a lot better these days.

Axle
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Follow Up By: Member - qld_bushpig - Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 at 14:42

Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 at 14:42
Your quite wrong in your assumption re algea. I used to own a couple of tour busses and was filling up every day. On a trip to the snowy mountains my driver needed to fill up. He pumped 450lts of diesel and managed to make back to tweed heads before the filters got so blocked that the pump could not get any fuel. Had to get towed home. The mecahanics pulled down the pump / filters and cleaned them. We then took a sample of fuel from the tank and the fuel was contaminated to high level by the bug. Had to throw out 300lts of diesel and remove the fuel tank, completely flush out and steam clean. Result 1 week off the road and a bill for $1700. Just because you have never seen it does not mean that it does not happen.

Cheers
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Reply By: Barry 2 - Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 00:06

Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 00:06
Hi Bware
Firstly let me state that I am not a Diesel "Mac" or profess to know about the intricate workings of such machines ??
"BUT" what I do know, is that over the past 25 years I have never had a problem with my Diesel any of my vechicles or boat and I have travelled this land extensibly by 4x4,and sailed the coast of Aus in my yacht without any problems
As you could imagine I would of obtained fuel along the journeys from some jubious places ???
All I can say is that I have always subscribed to the theory of keeping tanks full at all times and making sure I have best quality filters changed regulary
When I first bought my yacht I inspected the fuel tank and it did have a growth in the tank I cleaned it out and subscribed to the above and havn't had a problem since.
In regards to filling tanks on a budget, I know exactly where you are coming from
I own a 100series cruiser with 2 big tanks, when money permits fill both tanks,
I run around on the aux tank most times costs less to fill !! every couple of weeks I use the main tank to keep fuel fresh, at the end of the day it is relative to how much you use it costs the same if you fill up weekly or fortnightly ??
I have never used an additive based on my experience I don't see a need for it
If you keep up with the servicing and use quality filters, I subscribe to the theory that you get what you pay for - cut corners and you "WILL" pay the price
I am very saftey conscious with my sailing you can't afford for something to go wrong when you are miles out to sea as with my 4x4 in outback Aussie
I think that sometimes people get caught up in all the rumors that fly around and get confused about the facts
This is my thoughts about my experiences
Barry
AnswerID: 184751

Follow Up By: Member - Bware (Tweed Valley) - Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 00:28

Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 00:28
Hi Barry
That's down to earth info mate. I've never had any problems with my diesel vehicles either and am wondering about this 'apparent' issue. Obviously good filters sort most problems out. Perhaps from a financial point of view I should completely drain one tank since I'm not about to embark on a 'cross desert trip and just fill one tank. The problem there is a new thread; If you leave an auxillary tank dry, what problems will it cause- do seals dry out, if it's had fuel in it before wont all the dregs be at the bottom near the intake? etc,etc,
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Reply By: Brian B (NT) - Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 02:08

Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 02:08
Hello Bware,

The problem you refer to is not algae which does require sunlight to grow as stated below. The problem is microbes which grow in the fuel/water interface, warmer weather or tanks with heaters in them naturally encourage these microbes to grow. The problem can be treated with a biocide or removal of water, IE no interface no microbes. If microbes are present they can block filters & it goes without saying that once killed the microbes generally end up in the filters.

Keeping tanks full does reduce the chances of contamination as does regularly turning over stocks of fuel.

Hope this helps
Brian B (NT now Bris)

Lifetime Member
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AnswerID: 184760

Follow Up By: tex1972 - Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 at 20:07

Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 at 20:07
its a bacteria that causes the most problems if I remember correctly from my tech days
Tex
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 09:00

Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 09:00
Just in addition, its worth purchasing diesel from the truck stops as they turn over a lot more fuel than the average suburban servo. Less likely to have water and algae.

I add Chemtech which has a biocide whenever my vehicle is likely to be sitting around for a few months with not much use. Its cheap insurance. I do my own maintenance and I've never found anything significant in the fuel filters.
AnswerID: 184766

Reply By: Member - John R (NSW) - Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 10:04

Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 10:04
Slightly off thread (cars) I know, but we had a problem in some of our aircraft that were fitted with auxiliary fuel tanks.

We were running around with the aux tanks bone dry. For some reason it caused quite significant problems with critters growing in the aux tanks. The engineers used some sort of biocide to try to stop it, but with limited success.

Now we operate with a small quantity of fuel in the aux tanks, and have very few problems, apparently.

Jet-A is similar to diesel. ie bugs grow in it...
AnswerID: 184772

Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 14:06

Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 14:06
Intrigued by your 'critters' John. Tends to suggest squirrels, possums and the like. LOL I guess it is just like the furr off them or the remains of the guts when you try to get your engine to digest them.
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Follow Up By: Member - John R (NSW) - Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 at 13:09

Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 at 13:09
LOL John :-)

The only critters that go through my engines are the occasional fruit bat, ibis, or eagle ;-)
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Follow Up By: tex1972 - Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 at 20:11

Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 at 20:11
we tried a product called bc250 can't remember who made it , it worked ok but we ended up draining the tanks and cleaning them out with caustic soda.

Tex
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Reply By: Member - andrew B (Kununurra) - Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 12:47

Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 12:47
I have a lot of trouble not filling both tanks whenever I am at a servo - I've gone to all the trouble of stopping etc so i figure I may as well get as much in as possible. half filling to save on 30 odd kilo in weight etc would be false economy - any savings with this less weight would be tiny, compared with an extra stop and start if only half filling (IMO).

Was reading in a boat mag the other day that Petrol has pretty odinary shelf life now that it's better for the environment, whereas diesel has a lot longer shelf life.

Cheers Andrew
AnswerID: 184783

Reply By: Black Beard - Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 17:05

Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 17:05
Algae wouldn't stand a chance in my tanks - it gets burnt too quick!!!
AnswerID: 184804

Follow Up By: BILL from Fitch Fuel Catalyst Australia Pty Ltd - Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 18:42

Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 18:42
MIne neither because I use a certain product of which I shall not mention,but I keep telling you ALL weep and wear it.

REgards BILLS( remember it is SAT night I have time a little)
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Reply By: LONER - Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 20:54

Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 20:54
I to am one of the lucky ones who have never had the misfortune of finding algae in my diesel.
I have a Landcruiser BJ42 as a second vehicle that i have owned for 12 years, have never taken it to a mechanic, change the filters and oil every 10,000 klms myself and it sits outside in the weather for up to 12 months without being started.
When needing to use it I re-charge the battery and it starts first time, I can then drive it wherever I need to and it doesn't miss a beat, (520 klms round trip from home to town and back). obviously i haven't come into contact with any contaminated fuel ever and the algae obviously cannot appear/grow in my tank on its own.
I have a Lone Ranger long range tank fitted (total fuel capacity in vehicle of 145 litres) and haven't refueled this tank for 26 months.
To answer your question I never think about it and never have but do recognise it as a problem as I have witnessed it in my employment in earthmoving equipment and due to the extremely limited occurrence's of it we never use any additives until it strikes, we then completely clean all lines, filters and drop the tank from the machine, give it a thorough flush, re-assemble every thing and add 2 litres approx of any additive that we can get from the local servo/auto parts store and run it through, we then wait for the next occurrence.
I have only ever witnessed the algae on 2 occasions over 12 years in the mining industry and they occurred close together due to a batch of contaminated fuel.
Maybe I and the company have just been lucky.
AnswerID: 184832

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