Generator Output
Submitted: Friday, Jul 21, 2006 at 23:21
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Pajman Pete (SA)
Can someone who knows about green steam please educate me about generator output.
I have a Scorpion Generator with a pure sine wave inverter for the 240 V.
The specs say it is 240V 1000W and has a battery charging output that can put out 10A at 12V.
Now from my memory P=VI so 1000W at 240V = 4.1A
Now I know that
inverters are not that efficient but where are the amps going at 240V?
Thanks
Pete
Reply By: Muddy doe (SA) - Friday, Jul 21, 2006 at 23:46
Friday, Jul 21, 2006 at 23:46
I would say that the 10A at 12V is going to take less watts than 10A at 240V
Based on that formula 1000W would potentially give 83A @ 12Vbut they have only included charging hardware capable of 10A @12V
It would have different outputs for power at 240V and at 12V I would think.
If my understanding of these things is wrong then I am sure that SOMEONE will point this out!
Muddy
AnswerID:
184746
Reply By: Mike Harding - Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 07:21
Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 07:21
Muddy is correct.
Consider the 12V and 240V outputs as completely separate items except that the _total_ power drawn from both of them should not exceed 1000W at one time (that’s usually the case with gens. anyway?).
The components which provide the 12V output have been designed for a maximum load of 120W or 10A at 12V. Whereas the main 240V generator can provide 1000W or 4.1A at 240V however if you were to plug a _REALLY_ big battery charger into the 240V output it could provide 83A at 12V.
Does that answer your question? I'm not sure I really understood what it was :) Ask again if it doesn't.
Mike Harding
AnswerID:
184762
Reply By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 08:17
Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 08:17
Ahhh, Pajman Pete is an old Navy man from the days of DC ships and open frame switchgear!
Muddy and Mike are spot on. I'll speak mainly from the perspective of my EU10i Honda.
On the electrical drawings they show two entirely seperate windings within the alternator one for the DC and another into the Inverter for the AC.
These two circuits are totally seperate and have no eletrical bonding at all. And are therefore very different capacities.
The Honda drawing actually shows only a bridge rectifier between the windings and the DC outlet. Definitely unfiltered DC.
Geoff.
| Geoff,
Grey hair is hereditary, you get it from children. Baldness is caused by watching the Wallabies.
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Follow Up By: tex1972 - Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 at 19:51
Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 at 19:51
don't these hondas just make 12v dc and invert it to 240 thus the ability to parallel wire them together
FollowupID:
441650
Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 at 20:10
Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 at 20:10
No, If you get hold of the book that comes with the Honda's and look at the circuit diagrams you'll see exactly what I've described above.
Two seperate windings and seperate circuits. One winding feeds into the Inverter what the voltage is at this point is undefined but like all rotating electrical generation machines will be AC, the other winding supplies the 12 volt rectifier then the outlet.
When the Honda's are paralleled they just join the two 240 volt outlets together. There may be a "conversation" between the two
inverters but this is how they are connected. Again, as per the circuit diagram in the Honda owners manual.
Geoff.
| Geoff,
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Follow Up By: Pajman Pete (SA) - Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 08:20
Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 08:20
Yep Geoff, did my first gennie watch in the old Supply.
FollowupID:
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Reply By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 08:37
Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 at 08:37
Put your left hand on the negative terminal of your battery and your right hand on the positive end of the battery. Now, tell me what you feel....nothing??? Good.
Now, put your left hand hand on the active pin of your 240v and your right hand on the neutral. (DO NOT ACTUALLY DO THIS...)
After you have recovered from the electric shock, heart attack, and third degree burns, you may realise it is not a good idea to compare thing that are unrelated.
What you have in the gennie is two seperate windings, one supplying the 12 volts DC at up to 8 Amps (100W), and the other supplying 240 Volts AC at up to (what you correctly calculated) 4.1 Amps.
The TOTAL load on the generator cannot be more than listed, ie 1000W (@240V), or 900W(@240V) + 100 W(@12V)
AnswerID:
184764
Reply By: Mr Fawlty - Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 at 17:19
Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 at 17:19
"Green Steam" is generated by renewable energy, Steam generated by the earths magnetic field & from other Green sources is green...
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Reply By: Pajman Pete (SA) - Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 08:18
Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 08:18
Thanks for your responses, I now understand.
Cheers
Pete
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184981
Reply By: Member - Mike DID - Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 12:46
Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 12:46
Just make sure you only use the "DC output" from these generators (Honda, Yamaha, Kipor, GMC etc) only to charge batteries - and only while you are monitoring them.
These outputs are toatlly unregulated - even when the battery is full, they will keep on pumping out full power into the battery and could boil the battery dry.
The outputs are rectified AC, not smooth DC, so they will damage many 12 volt appliances if you connected them to these "12 volt" outputs.
Mike
AnswerID:
185015
Follow Up By: Pajman Pete (SA) - Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 13:02
Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 13:02
Thanks Mike,
I was aware of that. We bulk charge only then plug a smart 3 stage charger into the 240V to top the batteries off.
Even better - when delivered the DC output was wired backwards! It kept popping the overload switch whenever I put a battery on it. A quick check with the multimeter sussed that out, but I had to move the QC sticker to change the wires over!
Cheers
Pete
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