Third battery set up - is it possible?

Submitted: Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 07:17
ThreadID: 36101 Views:11774 Replies:6 FollowUps:7
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Hi All
Just 5 weeks out from leaving for the Canning It has been suggested to me to checkout the logistics of running a 2nd Engel fridge (40ltr) from my dual battery setup - but add a third battery into the setup. Currently I have an Engel (40ltr) running as a fridge thru a dual battery setup (Redarc & deep cycle battery) The idea of adding a second fridge to be used as a freezer sounds good as I have the room to do it. I have been told that I can mount the 3rd battery down the back near the 2nd (freezer) unit and tap off the positive lead comming to the first fridge - not sure on this.
Any comments most welcome

Travelling from Melbourne - Uluru - Gunbarrel - Canning - Kimberley then back home via the Tanamai and Simpson desert.

Cheers for now

Mike
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Reply By: Member - Bruce and Anne - Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 07:33

Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 07:33
I have done this and the simplest way: 1 got a battery box (easier to tie down the battery) put an isolator in the box, with the battery,( make sure you turn off this switch when you stop the motor) use 6mm wire or better from pos side of the cranking battery, fuse at each end of the wire, 30 amp. When the motor is running I only lose .1 of a volt between main battery and fridge battery. I have a neg wire on second battery hooked to tie down in the back. Hope this is of some help, Ive had this system for 4 or so years without any trouble.
Cheers Bruce.
AnswerID: 184972

Reply By: Member - andrew B (Kununurra) - Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 08:03

Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 08:03
Seems as you already have your second battery isolated from the cranker, I would do similar to above, only wire the 3rd battery in parallell with the existing aux battery (with fuses both ends etc). I have two aux plugs in the back of my wagon, and have made up a lead that plugs in, and clamps to a third battery, which also has a plug on it. Both the remaining plug in the back, and the plug on the 3rd battery now run of both aux batteries. I see its a wagon in your rig profile, so obviously you don't want a std lead acid battery in the car, use tha appropriate sealed unit. (please note that I am yet to use this setup on a trip, but it worked well in the back yard.)

Although it may sound a little complicated with the way I have explained it, it is versatile as you can remove the 3rd battery in seconds, as I will only need 3 batteries for about 2 weeks a year.

How long to you intend the batteries to last between the car running, and do you have any other power supply you are taking (gennie, solar etc).

Cheers Andrew

AnswerID: 184977

Reply By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 10:31

Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 10:31
I run a 3 battery system in the surf. I use a wetcell Calcium battery in the back storage box. It is stored in a plastic battery box (about $20 from super cheap). Thats the idea of a battery box, to allow you to use a wetcell battery in an environment where you don't want spillage. Calcium-calcium batteries produce little (if no) gassing when charging from your alternator as they do not gas until about 14.9v making the system safe for inside an enclosed space such as a car cabin.

I would recommend using an either identical or similar capactiy battery to your existing deep cycle and running the two in parralell. ie Just hook the third battery directly (fuesd of course, I use a 70amp circut breaker at both ends myself) to the existing deep cycle. You may need to upggrade your wiring to 8g or 4g to get the best results, I use 4g all the way to the front.

The reasons for this are:
1. Cheaper
2. Simpler
3. It will work better.

According to Peukert's Law a 100amp hour deep cycle battery with a 4 amp load (ie a fridge) will discharge faster than two 100amp hour batteries hooked up together. "DEERR" you're probally thinking, it's got twice the storage capacity so of course it will!

What I'm talking about is that the more load you draw from a battery the less efficiant it becomes. Most deep cycle batteries sizes are rated on a particular draw. 20amps seems to be the most common. ie If you have a 100amp hr battery and you draw 20amps continously from it, in theory it should last 5 hours. (100/20). If you draw 1 amp from it, it may last 110 hours and if you draw 100amps from it it may only last half an hour (instead of the expected 1 hour that the rating would lead you to belive).

Therefore by hooking both batteries togerther you now have a 200amphour battery bank instead of two seperate 100amp hour batteries meaning that the current draw you now are taking from the system is 50% less of the total amp hour rating than it was previously giving you more run time.

You can read about Peukert's Law here: www.smartgauge.co.uk/peukert2.html

I found that when I installed the third deep cycle battery I don't just get double the run time out of the fridge, I get substantially more than double. On a hot summers day (40c) I could pull up at camp, run my fridge at -2c, music, lights, water pump all day and night and have bascially nothing left in the 100amp/hr by morning (about 11.0v). By putting the second identical battery into the system I barley even dent the battery bank by doing the same thing (12.1v). The batteries are fairly old and after rest charged normally only sit at 12.5v, maybe 12.6v after a good 3 stage charge at home.

AnswerID: 184993

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 17:34

Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 17:34
A small correction if I may:

I think the usual spec for lead/acid batteries assumes a "C/20" load, in other words if you have a 100Ah battery it's only good for 100Ah if you draw 5A from it. If you draw 50A it will last (guessing here - Google for accurate curves) one hour.

Mike Harding
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FollowupID: 441796

Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 18:44

Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 18:44
Peukerts Law doesn't really account for that much difference.

From the Trojan Battery Deepcycle wetcell datasheet.

if you discharge at 5.25 amps you get 105 amphours.
If you discharge at 17 amps you get 85 amphours

So dividing the current by 3.2 only increases capacity by 24%

Mike
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FollowupID: 441821

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 18:50

Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 18:50
Only 24%?!? Thats 1/4 of you're total battery capacity!
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FollowupID: 441823

Reply By: Alloy c/t - Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 11:12

Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 11:12
I run a 6 battery system so no reason why you cant run a 3 ,mine is 80amp Fullriver AGM HGL as starter ,2x same as aux under bonnet thru Redarc clone wired in para plus 3x same batts in c/t wired thru anderson plug and 8mm sq + and - effectively in parra to batt no3 under the bonnet,, easy as.
AnswerID: 184997

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 17:01

Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 17:01
Reckon you can run the hairdryer with that lot :-)))
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FollowupID: 441788

Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 19:06

Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 19:06
Phil G ,,no need for a hair dryer ,losing hair quicker up top than Dickie Johnson could get round Mt. Panorama , just like to make sure my beer is/stays cold and swmbo has ice for her scotch+coke /gin+tonic. lol.
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FollowupID: 441826

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 22:43

Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 22:43
Alloy,
the hair... the cold beer... and the G+T for the wife, are all things we have in common.
You've got 4 more batteries just to keep the ice going for SWMBO. Now I admire your dedication :-)))) hehehe
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FollowupID: 441887

Reply By: Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators - Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 17:11

Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 17:11
Hi Mike,

Yes you can run a third battery.

This is the same basic setup as my 'Flyer' Universal Dual Battery System. I would recommend a fresh set or wires to the Redarc to optimise charging and wire the fridge to the 3rd battery.

Regards Derek.
AnswerID: 185054

Reply By: madmax - Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 18:39

Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 18:39
Hi Guys,

We have created an online AC or DC calculator to help determine you battery capacity and solar requiements.

You can check it out here:

for AC:

DC solar calculator

for DC:

AC solar calculator

Max
Information Manager
Energy Matters - Solar and Battery Sales
www.energymatters.com.au
AnswerID: 185072

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 19:20

Monday, Jul 24, 2006 at 19:20
Qui??? :)
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FollowupID: 441829

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