damd thing wont go

Submitted: Monday, Jul 31, 2006 at 08:32
ThreadID: 36301 Views:2342 Replies:9 FollowUps:10
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ok heres one for the knowlagable......3 ltr petrol patrol....after starting could drive 5ks or 50ks then for no reason just looses all power ..pull over give it a rev no joy there ...turn it off count to 20 start up revs great alls good of we go .....i thought it was just the cold air i was driveing in 2..3 deg..but on a recent day trip...200 ks in it did it again ....now its got me stumped ..... i think may have something to do with auto choke .as the only prob is this fuel thing everything else is fine ...any ideas ......????please help...its driven mee bonkers

cheers Bundy
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Reply By: Bobdate - Monday, Jul 31, 2006 at 09:19

Monday, Jul 31, 2006 at 09:19
Bundy Boy:
My guess is a blockage in the fuel supply - maybe a choked filter, or a piece of crap in the fuel tank which gets drawn to the intake. When the engine stops, the blockage slumps back and all is OK again. I helped a guy out years ago with a VW fastback (Bosch petrol injection). I put a pressure gauge on the system and after a while, the pressure dropped off and the engine stopped. Incidentally, the engine was running with about 18 psi pressure when it should have been 28.5 psi. The problem was solved by removing the petrol tank. Apparently, the grandkids had opened the filler flap and emptied a lot of sand into the tank! Clean out the tank and a new filter and all was OK. It will be a lot fo wrok, but you obviously have to do something to fix it. All the best...
AnswerID: 186215

Reply By: crewser - Monday, Jul 31, 2006 at 09:24

Monday, Jul 31, 2006 at 09:24
Could be crank angle sensor, common problem with vl commodores with same motor. Engine loses power & cuts out when it warms up & then starts again and runs fine after it cools down a bit, its located in the distributer on the vl.
AnswerID: 186217

Follow Up By: Robin - Monday, Jul 31, 2006 at 09:32

Monday, Jul 31, 2006 at 09:32
Its a quite different system Crewser, does have crank angle sensor/plate , this is
your basic carbie version , but it does have ignition timing pulse coil driven.

Robin Miller
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Follow Up By: Member - MUZBRY VIC) - Monday, Jul 31, 2006 at 09:57

Monday, Jul 31, 2006 at 09:57
Gday
I also have one of these dilectable items and the first thing to do is change the petrol filter next to the carb......then when it is running nice ,,lift the carb and take out the restrictor plate and nock out the gauze,,,
Muzbry
Muzbry
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Reply By: Robin - Monday, Jul 31, 2006 at 09:37

Monday, Jul 31, 2006 at 09:37
Auto choke is a good bet, as is carbie problem that can cause 2nd throat to open far to early and give big flat spot, however a major re-occurring problem
with that carbie system is the electrically heated element that sits just below the carbie on top of manifold.
The alloy material is in a matrix and breaks up clogging inlet track.
Easy enough to clear , but when its not working car is harder to start cold and runs
poor till warm.

Actually had one once , but converted mine to VL fuel injection system.

Robin Miller
AnswerID: 186220

Reply By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Monday, Jul 31, 2006 at 10:45

Monday, Jul 31, 2006 at 10:45
Electronic fuel pump might be giving up on you, was a problem with the old VL's big time, not sure wether your patrol runs the electric pump or mechanical. Regards Steve M
AnswerID: 186231

Reply By: Camoco - Monday, Jul 31, 2006 at 12:31

Monday, Jul 31, 2006 at 12:31
Hi Bundy Boy,
I have been looking for that very same answer for some time.
I noticed the same problem here 3 years ago from a reader but since then all quiet.
I have the same situation. A Mine is a '93 3.0l Patrol with 360k on it. It has only done it to me twice over the last 4 years since I have had it. Both times in this winter season. Like you I thought it might be temperature related (and still do to a certain degree) but at first thought it was fuel. Both times it was just above zero degrees. But I have driven in that temp quite a bit with no issues.

To all who have not experienced the problem, It seems only on 3.0l carby Patrols, starts fine idels well, drives beaut, then a slow loss of power. Keep driving and it will eventually stop (1-2 minutes driving). It will still idle fine but won't get more than 1500rpm out of it. Shut it off and kick the tyres a bit rant and rave for a bit then get in and hit the starter and it will run fine until next time.
My first occurance was with a lowish tank level, the last time it was mostly full.
No crap in tank or filters, bowl, sight glass.

Sorry I can't help with the problem, but we are not alone.
AnswerID: 186251

Follow Up By: Member - BUNDY BOY (WA) - Monday, Jul 31, 2006 at 20:29

Monday, Jul 31, 2006 at 20:29
hi Camoco,,,,,,,ahhhh i dont feel asostupid nowww yer it drives me nuts......ive changed the filters witch were not that old.....only thing i havent done is pull the tank out ..........am looking towards choke sensors as have extractors ....eg sensor to exhaust manifold wouldnt b hooked up ...but that should only extend the time till the choke cuts off.......ive asked loads of mechanics but with no joy ......well at least i know im not the only one

Darren
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Reply By: Member - Pud & Barb R (NSW) - Monday, Jul 31, 2006 at 17:20

Monday, Jul 31, 2006 at 17:20
Hi Bundy Boy,
Sounds like ours when we had trouble with the alternator.
Do you have dual batteries?
Ours was starting OK on 2nd battery, when the smart solenoid would cut off the 2 batteries it would loose all power, similar to a fuel problem. New altenator, problem fixed
Good luck
Barb
AnswerID: 186313

Follow Up By: Member - BUNDY BOY (WA) - Monday, Jul 31, 2006 at 20:34

Monday, Jul 31, 2006 at 20:34
hi Barb..yer have duel batterys ...but this has been going on since before they were fitted.....its more regular now weve got cooler weather ....alternator and starter are 3 months old new not reco....so i hope its not them at fault .....its just realy anoying ....its always been early am in the cold untill my last trip and on the way home from work last week 5pm .15 deg ..so im stumped

Darren
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FollowupID: 443413

Reply By: V6 PATROL - Monday, Jul 31, 2006 at 17:43

Monday, Jul 31, 2006 at 17:43
hey bundy boy had one of those it did it mainly in winter andwould get aprox 2 ks and would slow then stop did carbie rebuilds and that stuff turned out to be sensors in the aircleaner surround cost couple of huindred for new ones but problem fixed. then motor died wit h380 on the clock have v6 commodore and auto in it now best thing ever done ecconomy and power. good luck
AnswerID: 186326

Follow Up By: Camoco - Monday, Jul 31, 2006 at 19:15

Monday, Jul 31, 2006 at 19:15
Hi V6patrol,
I want to talk to you. :).

All folks I have spoken to have suggested it would be a bad idea to do what you have done. But I can see no reason for that. Maybe they are comparing it to a V8 conversion.
Coming from the 3.0l to a V6 commodore sounds like a big improvement to me.
How's the economy and general feel of it?
I used to own a VS wagon and I got 38mpg regularly on it with air etc and it had 250K on the clock. I did almost all the driving and treated it carefully and it was open road work but the power was always there and the economy when it mattered.

I don't expect the same figures pulling 2 ton around but they shouldn't be as bad as the 3.0l is. (not that they are bad either. I get 15l/100km with it around my hilly town) If I had my fuel converter I would speak the same language so sorry for the different values.

Thanks Cam

PS With the sensors, did your patrol have the carby?. What do the sensors connect to? I have assumed (perhaps wrongly as I haven't looked) that the carby version had no computer. I have dismissed the computer related problem solving for that reason. Otherwise what is the point of doing without injection?
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Follow Up By: V6 PATROL - Tuesday, Aug 01, 2006 at 05:38

Tuesday, Aug 01, 2006 at 05:38
hey camoco the sensors have something to do with the cold air and heat intake thru the air cleaner cant think of their names . It was a carby one but after choke rebuilds and carby rebuilds this guy changed those and it was good as gold I think it sends a message to the auto choke and puts it on and that's what stops the car . If you disconnect choke you will see you have no dramas but i needed a choke to get going it was a pig with no choke. As for v6 it gets around 13 per hundred round town and 11-12 on highway at 100 with not much in car that's if the maths is right or about 550- 600 put of a tank around town. simple maths says more torque and kw will push car along easier with less effort and add fuel injection etc for ecconomy. offf road is much same as before just put crawler gears in auto engine revs is much same as before so no need to change diffs and stuff good on the beach and fitsin the engine bay like it is a bought one can actually stand in engin bay in front of motor on the ground if after more info call 0429033012 Ian is my name .
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FollowupID: 443487

Follow Up By: Camoco - Tuesday, Aug 01, 2006 at 12:37

Tuesday, Aug 01, 2006 at 12:37
Thanks very much Ian,
It sounds just like I need and had expected (well it is better than I expected, about what I had hoped).
I prefer a manual, but hey, the commo one would be cheaper and is usually already bolted up. I need a new box anyway as the 3.0l has an integral bellhousing.
I'll not bother you now but will hang on to your details just in case.
I now need to look for a good V6 and box.

BTW I spoke to a bloke about turbo'ing mine and it would cost more than the transplant would cost and I still will have an undersized engine.

Thanks again
Cam
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Follow Up By: Member - MUZBRY VIC) - Tuesday, Aug 01, 2006 at 13:25

Tuesday, Aug 01, 2006 at 13:25
Gday
Thanks for that info..I did not know about the temp sensors and will keep an eye out for that next time...I dont know that mine has sensors because it is on gas and i cant find them..but i will keep the whole lot in the back of my head for next time..

The Holden engine sounds good...must look into it

Thanks
Muzbry
Great place to be Mt Blue Rag 27/12/2012

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Follow Up By: V6 PATROL - Tuesday, Aug 01, 2006 at 17:03

Tuesday, Aug 01, 2006 at 17:03
you will find the cheapest and easiest transplant is the turbo vl motor if you can find a good one already rebuilt and not thrashed lots to rebuild. dont have to change anything and will give you around 200 kw, next best is the vl fuel injected and buy a turbo off a slivia or somthing similar and run around 7 pound. but still you need a perfect engine which means rebuild and fitting about 7-8 grand. the v6 use a series2 out of a vr any newer and big bucks elecrically to change with the ecotec. I bought a whole car from auction that was hit up the rear 67000 on the clock for 800 sold the rest kept motor and box.Only auto as ther was no adapter for the 3 litre gear box and transfer so auto was easy decision.just over 5k all fitted.each car is different the most hardest was auto spark and sump had to be modified . as cant get a firm quote as just depends on accessaries you have,10 days all fitted you can also make it tp a 4.2 litre quite easily for about 1500 dollars so just another bonus. set of exteractors and exhaust gives you a bit extra as well.
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Reply By: Member - BUNDY BOY (WA) - Monday, Jul 31, 2006 at 22:49

Monday, Jul 31, 2006 at 22:49
thanks everyone for the input................now ive got some other things to check on the weekend

bundy
AnswerID: 186405

Reply By: David from David and Justine Olsen's 4WD Tag-Along - Thursday, Aug 03, 2006 at 20:51

Thursday, Aug 03, 2006 at 20:51
Check EGR valve is not stuck open. If it is, the thing will be pretty gutless. The Patrol is not as bad as the Rodeo, as the Rodeo has a huge EGR pipe, but my experience with a Rodeo showed me a stick open EGR valve can turn it into a slug.
AnswerID: 186992

Follow Up By: Member - BUNDY BOY (WA) - Friday, Aug 04, 2006 at 02:34

Friday, Aug 04, 2006 at 02:34
thanks David..........another thing to check on the weekend ,,,,,,,,,aahhh so little time

darren
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