Biased opinions on 4X4’s WHY

Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 01, 2006 at 23:48

ThreadID: 36377 Views:4244 Replies:19 FollowUps:15

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Damo.N

Gday

I often wonder on how others come to their opinion on 4X4’s. For years I worked in the exploration industry and we used Land Cruiser HJ75’s and at the time 80 series, I can guarantee I put these vehicles to the test and I swear by them as the never let me down. Since then I have had exposure to jeeps & Nissans and I now have a 2000 Holden Jackaroo 3Ltr TD.

On multiple occasions I have taken the Jackaroo off road and put it through it’s paces, and I do not stuff around, I have done hard beach work, rock climbs, mud and more. Not once has it let me down and I must say it has far past my expectations of a little known, 20grand vehicle, along with that it is a pleasure to drive on road as well, also my girlfriend likes it as it is not massive.

I was looking around for a good diesel mechanic and that was hard to do, a few of them said they will do it but said Jackaroos are no good, obviously they did not get my money. A reputable company in Perth specializing in 4X4’s serviced it and did a great job. My only complaint was when I asked them about getting a snorkel fitted they said “Why would you want a snorkel on a Jackaroo”. At this I decided not to peruse the conversation as like many others if it is not a land cruiser it is not a 4X4.

I have been through several water crossings thinking a snorkel would be great but I have no choice, I have always made it to the other side without a problem, in fact I have helped out other PROPER 4X4’s.

It is my opinion that biased off roaders are not skillful and they rely on the ability of a vehicle and not the driver. I believe that if you are confidant and choose a vehicle in good condition and that you believe fits your needs it is a good vehicle.

I had a great day at the poer line track today, in mud and rock with out a problem going through water and over rocky rutted hills, all this was done with another Jackaroo and there was not even a doubt at any of the obstacles. I would challenge any standard 4x4 to beat us. In saying that we do not race we have fun, and that is what it is all about.

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Reply By: Member - Bruce and Anne - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 07:06

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 07:06

Good on ya Damo Up The Isuzus.

AnswerID: 186651

Reply By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 07:58

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 07:58

Hi there Damo, my mate has a Jackaroo turbo diesel, no it doesnt have the ground clearance that mt lux does, but it has every thing else the lux doesnt, power,comfort, good road driving etc and yes like yourself with the jackaroo has been knocked about it's a toy 4wd you know the responses, ah low clearance, not a real 4wd, etc, but I tell you what I reckon my wife wouldnt be half tempted next time to go that way, she had a drive of it a few weeks ago and loved it, we have put things on hold at the moment in regards to buying another vehicle for her but might be an option when the time come's, he has the turbo factory and it pulls up the hills like a steam train, no it's not a patrol or lancruiser and doesnt climb the rocks as well as the lux does or as the above mentioned vehicles and I think that is just due to ground clearance and less wheel articulation (he's is standard) but other than that great vehicle, as he said if he wants to go rock hoppn he'l go and buy an old patrol. Regards Steve M

AnswerID: 186658

Follow Up By: Damo.N - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 13:48

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 13:48

Ground clearance was a litlle issue for me so i got it lifted and I have slightly bigger rims and rubber. In saying that it does not look over the top but it is enough to make a difference, a few other Jackaroo owners have seen what i a have done and are planning on doing it to, the lift cost $700, new rear springs, new shocks all round (the others were stuffed) and wound up the torsion bar.

FollowupID: 443783

Reply By: chump_boy - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 08:56

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 08:56

You have basically summed it up yourself.

95% of the time it is the driver, not the vehicle that is the limiting factor. The fact is you are getting out there, having fun, in a vehicle you enjoy. Does it get any better than that?

My line up of 4 wheelers has included a Jackaroo, a Sierra, an ex-army landrover, a Defender, a Disco, a Pajero, and I am now driving a 105 Series cruiser. It is more for the 8 seats and towing capacity than actual 4wd ability, but it is a great vehicle.

I have to be honest, I didn't much like my Jackaroo, but it was more because I was driving a raised Sierra at the time, and was doing some crazy stuff with it - the Jackaroo was pretty boring in comparison. It was a reliable, no nonsence little vehicle though.

Cheers,

Chump

AnswerID: 186671

Reply By: cackles - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 09:13

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 09:13

last year we bought a patrol my first newish car and all we have copped is bleep for not buying a cruiser. All I can say is after years of paying off a homeloan and driving a reliable but dinged up and rusty rodeo I feel lucky to have nice 4wd fullstop.
when we went out all the others would give the rodeo bleep cause it wasn't a cruiser or lux, shut them up by asking how often they're cars had been to the cape or over big red, it shut em up pretty quick.
Most of the time people will give you bleep to increase they're feeling of self worth, so just smile at them knowing that you don't have to be nasty to feel good about yourself

Cackles

AnswerID: 186673

Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 10:26

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 10:26

And enjoy it you should, who cares what you have while other people are up to there eye balls in debt with house loans that they can barely afford and are now shiiiiiting them selves with a 1/4 % interest rate rise and will be doing that for the next 30 years you will be having the last laugh while you are cruising this great land or ours, yes they will have the two story mansion with the plasma hanging off the wall and the attitude of look at my house but who will be the jealous one when they see you packing up to go on holidays again. I'm only 38 live in a nice area in a nice 4 bedroom home and am paying off my house like the rest of us and its not a mansion but my wife and I enjoy packing up and going away, many people have said the same thing to me about the lux, but hey it goes where we want it to ok, its a bit slow and we have the new camper and we have a great time and to me that's what its all about. Good on you go for it who cares !!! Regards Steve M

FollowupID: 443739

Follow Up By: Leroy - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 10:37

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 10:37

Some of the best trips I had were in my Rodeo. It surprised many people where I used to go to in it including Vic High country, Cape, Flinders Ranges etc. I couldn't really work out why they were surprised because it was a 4WD after all.

Leroy

FollowupID: 443741

Follow Up By: cackles - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 11:11

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 11:11

still have the loan, still have a dodgy 30 yr old house. We looked at moving last year and worked out theres no point in having a pool and great bbq area if we can't afford chlorine and snags.
In the end we chose lifestyle over show pony and am now looking forward to a summer filled with camping offroading and jetskiing / kneeboarding, none of which I could do with flash house.
As for your lux who cares if it goes slow (the fun is getting there = more fun) so what if it's old (the rodeo is 14 yrs = great bush basher)
we have more fun in the rodeo hands down.

cackles

FollowupID: 443748

Follow Up By: Member - Glenn D (NSW) - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 15:32

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 15:32

Kneeboarding behind the boat or in the ocean ?

FollowupID: 443792

Follow Up By: cackles - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 15:53

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 15:53

jetski in the dam, ski is four stroke so can take it in the ocean without salt going through engine. Have access to the wake of a 40 foot cat would like to try that some time.

cackles

FollowupID: 443800

Follow Up By: Member - Glenn D (NSW) - Thursday, Aug 03, 2006 at 00:00

Thursday, Aug 03, 2006 at 00:00

I have a different kind of kneeboard , but its more like surfig than water skiing .

FollowupID: 443887

Follow Up By: cackles - Thursday, Aug 03, 2006 at 10:27

Thursday, Aug 03, 2006 at 10:27

sounds interesting glen, is that like a boggey board? might try using the kboard as a surfboard sometime, just a bit of fun and saves the esky lid.

cackles

FollowupID: 443954

Reply By: GoneTroppo Member (FNQ) - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 09:17

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 09:17

Well said Damo
Love the bit about helping out PROPER 4x4's
Be prapared for some Jackaroo bashing though.

We all have some degree of bias toward what's sitting in the drive, but I too get tired of the "my Toynisswoo is the best".

Having done an awfull lot of very hard off road driving I would wholeheartedly agree that its the driver that's the limiting factor most often.

The vast majority of people never come remotely close to the limits of their vehicle, which is evidenced by their shocked look and stunned silence when they are taken for a drive where you do get closer to the limit.

AnswerID: 186674

Reply By: equinox - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 10:25

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 10:25

Damo,

Like you I worked for years in exploration with the company's vehicle of choice being the Cruiser Ute.

I drove them in very difficult areas - I used to pride myself in getting as close as possible to the co-ords I needed to survey.

I admit - I do not know anything about Patrols, Jackaroos, Discoverys or Hilux's but still pay out on them a bit in jest.

What I do know is that the cruiser will not let me down - unfortunately they are expensive. Personally it took me over ten years from when I said to my mates that I was going to get one to when I did buy one - and I know I wont regret it.

Looking for adventure.
In whatever comes our way.

Lifetime Member
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AnswerID: 186687

Reply By: ro-dah-o (WA) - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 10:26

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 10:26

Good on you Damo

I know where your coming from. Being a member of the Holden 4x4 club of WA (shameless plug :)) which consists of predominanmtly jackeroos and rodeos, I am constatntly being 'toynisswoo' bashed (Il like that term). However I find this seems to be the mindset of, yes, a minority of persons who are probably too easily sucked in by clever marketing.

I understand where you are coming from in regards to 4wd repairs and accessories, with first and secondhand experience of the usual 'its a rodeo/ jackeroo, why would you do that?' It seems that unless you drive quote "a real 4wd" un quote, your 4wd aint worth bleep .

I am always amazed to watch some toynisswoo owners (chuckle to self, that is a really cool term), and I apologise as I am refering to the minority, who just put their foot down, give it to her, and let the vehicle do the work. It is nothing graceful, nor spectacular to watch, although the clunk, crash, scrape, oops bent step gives me a laugh. Whereas a skillful driver in a 'less capable' vehicle ( I use the term 'less capabale' very loosely) with less ground clearance, engine size negotiate the same obstacle, knowing their vehicle, its limitations and how to drive it, is somewhat, how to say, a thing of beauty.

Im glad you enjoyed the powerlines, it is a good trip out, I have enjoyed it many time myself and have no problems making it from start to finish. As has been clearly outlined in previous posts, and Im sure many on this forum will be agree, as long as the vehicle suits your needs, makes you happy and allows you to enjoy this fine country of ours, then its the best 4wd.

Mike W

AnswerID: 186688

Follow Up By: GoneTroppo Member (FNQ) - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 10:42

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 10:42

g'day Mike

Glad you liiked the term Toynisswoo, There is another version best used in less polite company it's Toysh*twoo.

I too have a Rodeo 04 twin cab ute used mainly as a farm vehicle and to take to dogs to the beach. It's on standard bridgestone rubber no mods other than a bar and snorkel and I'm often amazed where it'll go. It has its limitations but I drive within those.

Chris

FollowupID: 443742

Follow Up By: ro-dah-o (WA) - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 10:49

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 10:49

I am the same, stock except for a couple of mods like bar, snorkel and some upgraded shocks.

As with anything, a vehicle must be driven within its limitations, god knows I've tried to pass them at times :) The whole holden range is an underestimated vehicle. With the LSD that came standard in so many rodeos ( unsure of Jacks), they will go to some amazing places that sometimes a stock standard toynisswoo will struggle. The capabilities of your toynisswoo's, i beleive rely heavily on aftermarket upgrades and accessories to make them anything special.

As once was said to me about heavily modified 4wds, "at the end of the day, they will only get you further in the bleep "

Mike

FollowupID: 443745

Reply By: TerraFirma - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 10:30

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 10:30

Oh what a feeling...!

AnswerID: 186690

Reply By: cackles - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 11:03

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 11:03

speaking of car bashing and the lack of accessories available for some makes our ex-local ARB dealer used to love bashing anyone who didn't have a toyota. Whenever you went in he would payout on your rig and anything on it that wasn't his product. Even accosted a mate of mine at the servo and gave him hell about his shockies.
On the other hand a friend of ours is a dealer too and will work on any car 4by or not,
maybe thats why he does so well and the other guy is out of business?

Cackles

AnswerID: 186692

Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 11:25

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 11:25

I think there are 3 things to be considered:

1) If blokes are feeling a bit insecure, they tend to jump to the defence of the vehicle marque they have spent all their $$$$ on. Nobody really wants to admit to having bought a vehicle that was a waste of money.

2) 99% of 4x4s are capable of doing 99% of the tasks that 99% of owners require of them. All 4bys are great really!

3) 99% of the banter that goes on here and on other forums is just the "G.A.S." (the Great Australian Stir). If you're a dead-set Aussie bloke, you've gotta stir ya mate: it's in ya jeans!!! I never miss an opportunity to stir Pesty and Lucy (2 of my good mates who, unfortunately, are silly enough to have spent their money on Toyotas...........Oh Chit....there I go AGAIN..........See how easy it is?)

Don't take it all to heart when somebody has a go at ya about what ya drive. You're the only bloke you've gotta please. I've now reached the age where I know I haven't gotta prove anything to anybody....been there/done that type of stuff. It's the insecure wannabee's that really get up ya nose.

Cheers

Roachie

AnswerID: 186697

Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 21:26

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 21:26

Good points Roachie,

Only one thing I would alter is.....I'm only too happy to tell people if I have wasted money on the vehicle type I drive, as I only hope it saves them the heartache or costly mistakes I have been through.

Definitely agree on the paying out ya mates comments though.

Cheers, Trevor.

FollowupID: 443860

Follow Up By: Member - Glenn D (NSW) - Thursday, Aug 03, 2006 at 00:29

Thursday, Aug 03, 2006 at 00:29

I hope you realise you just told the world that you like to stir your mates with whats " in your jeans "

FollowupID: 443891

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 12:20

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 12:20

To answer the question of why a Jackaroo needs a snorkel, then look at this video :-)))
Safari snorkel video

AnswerID: 186704

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 12:36

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 12:36

Might need to save this one to your Harddrive first to make it work.

FollowupID: 443763

Follow Up By: Pajman Pete (SA) - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 15:39

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 15:39

Nice video - I wonder what the passenger was saying as they floated off down the river.

They got very close to drowning it with the snorkel just above the water at one point.

Pete

FollowupID: 443794

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 15:49

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 15:49

Yeah Pete, that video never ceases to amaze me. Can't imagine they walked that one. Wonder why it was fitted with a sunroof? The driver was obviously a believer in doing up the seatbelt and having the windows up.

Cheers
phil

FollowupID: 443798

Reply By: Steve63 - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 12:59

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 12:59

Hi Damo,
Previously we had a Jack and now have a 79 series TD cruiser. At the time we looked at Patrols as well. Who cares what it is as long as it meets your needs and gets you where you want to go. The whole point is to be out there enjoying the country. I must admit we used to get some odd looks occasionally when we would turn up in some out of the way place. I'd definitely go the snorkel, we've had our Jack with water running up to the windscreen. Jacks are a lot more capable than they are given credit for.

Steve

AnswerID: 186719

Reply By: allanmac856 - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 13:30

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 13:30

Well said Damo, know how you feel, as I cop some light hearted digs,(some is fair dinkum) because I drive a Pajero. As others have said, all vehicles, not just 4x4's have pros & cons. When I bought mine, I looked at Patrols & cruisers; actually didnt really consider the Paj at the time, but it quickly rose to the top of the tree for me. Patrols/Cruisers were too big for the 'boss' to drive, & IMO the Patrol especially, is very average on road. The paj was almost perfect, good road manners, most of the bells & whistles, & very importantly, the 'boss' was happy to drive it. Also, no probs towing my ski boat. Whilst I wasnt intending to do much 'real' 4wding, the bug bit & the paj does everything I need it to do. Ok, limited with ifs & not huge ground clearance, but suspension upgrade & airlocker fixed that.

To cut to the chase, everyone will be a little biased, but the likes of Pajs/Jackaroos do everything pretty well. If I wanted a vehicle just for off road & didnt care if it got damaged & handled like a 'wet sponge' on road, I'd probably get a hilux.

AnswerID: 186726

Reply By: Pajman Pete (SA) - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 15:02

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 15:02

The best 4by I have drive was the work one that came with a fuel card and no repair bills! It was amazing how a work car can go places that you wouldn't take you own!

I like my Heritage Listed Paj. I have yet to take it somewhere I needed help to get home from.

We are thinking of changing it in the next 12 months or so for a diesel 4by, probably either a Troopy or a Patrol. But it will be the car we like on the day that will be the one we drive away in.

It will be sad to let the Paj go, it has given us lots of good memories.

My daughter cried when we sold our old Tarago for the same reason. We took it all over the top end, including many 4wd tracks. We were just careful and aware of the vehicle's limitations.

Cheers

Pete

AnswerID: 186735

Reply By: RupertDog - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 15:49

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 15:49

Damo

Know what you mean about the Toy 4wd tag. Try driving a RAV off road !!

Did the Powerlines a couple of weeks ago, and apart from losing one plastic engine guard, no damage, and kept up with the big boys.

My old man has a Jack, and it seems go everywhere, at a price that is acceptable, comfort level that is beter than average, and it fits 7 as well.

Looking at pinching it in the next few months to give it a bit of a test - just have to pluck up the courage to borrow his pride and joy !!

I am happy with what the RAV will do, and I know it and my limits (happy to test them every now and then). This is more important than just bashing away. I think that there is a certain art to 4wd, especially if you have a "toy" or a "lesser 4wd". I have put a couple of friends patrols and luxs to shame with where the RAV could go, and they only watch.

Enjoy

RD

AnswerID: 186743

Reply By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 17:10

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 17:10

Yeah, after owning two daihatsu 4wds and now a grey import toyota I got used to doing things myself. Not because parts were hard to find or they were difficult to work on (quite to the contrary in most cases) but people's attitudes just bleep me off. My brother in law has a Jack and he is who goes out with me most of the time 4x4ing. Sure it's got standard suspension and bottoms out a fair whack, but nothing that a few $100 wouldn't fix (and will be done soon).

Just enjoy it, and don't listen to people who have NFI.

AnswerID: 186754

Reply By: Barnesy - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 17:51

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 17:51

Car manufacturers have done well to develop brand loyalty among customers. Look at the Holden V Ford rivalry. I don't really care what fourby someone drives. If it suits their needs then stiff s**t where others' loyalties lay. If they question why you want a snorkel then obviously they don't want more business!

I'm very happy with my second hand GQ, exactly what i wanted. As it only took 18 months to pay off it also means i may be able to actually afford to buy a house at some stage.

AnswerID: 186766

Reply By: Bonz (Vic) - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 19:59

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 19:59

Its easy.

All Toyota owners opinions are based in self doubt and advertising and they have to talk up their high priced jaloppy.

All Nissan owners are down to earth people who swear by a solid axle front end and cant see the benefit in IRS and fear that the next Patrol will have a great engine and IFS.

Alll 4B owners who put up posts about how good their cars are and bag "real" or PROPER 4WD's are just ppl having fun out there.

All Pajero owners are great blokes and lasses.

I case my rest

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AnswerID: 186792

Reply By: Crackles - Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 20:52

Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 20:52

NOEL........Where are you???
As a Jack driver who really goes off road could you please set these poor soles straight by listing your cars history. They seem to be in denial :-) You really do need to come out of the closet. I'm sure it will be alright this time when they put the head back on it again. Looks like the Gear Jammer Award is in the bag too this year ;-)
Sorry Craig.............

AnswerID: 186808

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