Towing boat on tracks

take everything with a grain of salt :)) ..
I would like to hear about experiences of people with a larger boat
17 is a larger boat on a track sure .. I just took 18' as an example
to differenciate from the dinghy type boats on trailers or roofs ...
I am currently putting together a list of requirements for our new
boat trailer, which I want to take everywhere where it is still manageable.
I have my own ideas about things but is is always good to get other
opinions and experiences. Do you tow the boat on a regular basis ?
do you put in in the water on beaches or just ramps ? what sort
of clearance would you like to have with the trailer ? any other gear , tanks
etc. on trailer ? what routes did you take with the boat ? thats the sort of
questions and more i'd like to discuss ...
regards
gmd

Main places I have Towed this boat are Kalumburu as mentioned, (along GRR then north on Kalumburu road), and along Parry's Creek Road along the Ord River. The Trailer is an old one which I have modified. It has a heavy axel and Nissan 16"rims with 265/75 tyres on it (same as vehicle).

The drawbatr has been leangthened, which can be a problem on tight tracks, but makes towing and launching easier. I intend to put a couple of high lift jacking points at the back of the trailer to walk the rear end around obsticles when needed. The drawbar is also extendable by about 3 metres, which is a great help on beaches etc. It also has a spare on a stub axel which can be relocated under the drawbar and used as a jockey wheel to allow launching etc down the really bad spots. Clearance is an interesting one. although clearance is needed on some roads, I have my boat as low as practical above the tyres, allowing for suspention movement. It has plenty of clearance, as the ttrack width of the trailer is exactly the same as the Nissan - which is important on a lot of tracks, especially sand.

The downside of the tyres following the car's, is that the boat can't be lowered between the wheels like on a conventional trailer. Good for clearance, bad for launching. Springs are std slipper springs, but would prefer eye to eye. Boat is supported by about 8 keel rollers (the more the better), and 2 teflon coated timber skids. Not too bad to get on and off - have the weight on the rollers and the skids just touching. Multi rollers have a habit of punching holes in alloy boats on tracks...

I Try to keep the weight down as much as possible, I'd rather pay a higher price at places like Kalumburu than cart extra weight and brake something. Having said that, fuel is not available everywhere. Boat tanks hold 90l, good for 230km, and have carted a few jerries for extended trips.

Best advice I have is don't go too fast, and run your tyres on as low of a pressure as you are game. I run abour 16lb on tracks, and 22 on the road.

I intend to post a couple of pics here, but would gladly email you a few and any information you want.

Cheers Andrew

thanks .. along the same lines of my thinking ...
The current trailer I have has skids and no rollers, which is a pain
and you need to go too far into the water with the boat... too hard
to pull it onto the trailer otherwise .. bad on beaches ... this and
other reasons make me do up a new trailer.. one other reason is
the new boat I just bought and thats the one to keep for our long
term travels .. we will go and live on the road in around 4-5 years
until then I want every detail sorted ...

I have the same tires 265/75/16 same as the vehicle ...
I was thinking about a separate extention for the bar, one I can store
away on the trailer and only use on beaches or when required ..
the stub axle for the speres to use as jockey is a good idea.. I was thinking
about a decent 14" or 15" jockey but you are right.. one can use the
spares when required.. just need another one or two hubs .. On the beach you
need a decent jockey wheel ... I do not want to go too deep into the water
with the truck so I was thinking an extension which can slide out to a decent
length with a hitch and a ball, but then the front of the trailer needs full support
in the sand ... do you carry grids ? just in case ? I mean they are pretty essential with a larger rig and trailer anyway but also helpful when launching the boat
in sand ...

my vehicle is wider .. so I do not have the same problem with the width ..
therefore I have other problems on the track :)) .. with being wider than average..

I have a fibreglass boat but was still wondering about the point pressure of those rollers, but as you say as many as possible might distribute the pressure a bit
more ...

Weight is a compromise I guess.. I am thinking to put a couple of petrol tanks
on the trailer with skid plates underneath and when the route allows fill them up
for the boat... the truck has a long range diesel tank...

my main concern is clearance of the rear .. stern drive with a stab fin is the
lowest point .. but raising for clearance goes against convenience when launching
unless one puts a hydraulic lift in or something .. I am not sure yet ...

I would like to have some additional storage with a camper trailer type
pull out kitchen and stow way areas in the front .. of course one has
to balance it properly and I was thinking something one can take off
when stationary and just leave when taking the trailer to water ...

why do you run your tires so low on the road ?
thanks for taking the time
gmd

Hi gmd
the drawbar issue is very easy as i am assuming the trailer will have to be custom built is to have the draw bar slide out with removing a pin and driving forward and pinning while extended u can have an extension as long as your boat minimum.The suspension could be done with air bag susoension not sure of conpatability with sea water though!! I have towed my fishing boat from KI to Longreach a few times and whilst on dirt especially red there is an inclination for gel coat chaffing with the red dust getting between what ever is supporting the boat and the boat (teflon skids is what i had for keel and side support with a tilting trailer had no trouble with beach lauches obiviously not at Longreach).
I think that slipper springs will not be good suspension for extensive driving on corrigated roads and it sounds if u are going to be doing a lot of driving, coil springs would be my choice or if air bags will cope with the sea water u have over come launch and ground clearance issues there is a company that sells air suspension kits ready to attach to trailer chassis caravans etc(independant set up) if u contacted the airbag man www.airbagman.com.au i am sure they have their details.

Mattie

yes .. the extension is not really a worry .. just a matter of compromise
between length and weight ..
yes custom built ... I am step by step discussing this with the guy who is
building it .. there are ready made systems for independent suspension
but the chap I am dealing with is reluctant to use it because he said its
a problem of aligning them 100% and if not 100% you have tire wear problems..
now that sounds to me thats he has not done it yet and I was thinking to ask someone else. so I did and the other chap said "No problem" .. just make sure
that the chassis is dead straight ... well yeah sure .. but .. (he is the one selling
the suspension :)) ... actually I was thinking load sharing 2 axle
with leaf springs .. not so sure about the airbags though .. will give it some thought .. the other thing with dust/dirt rubbing between rollers or skids and the hull is
an issue I guess, but one just has to live with it I guess... I tie down the boat
to the trailer with strong synthetic rope to avoid the boat jumping on the trailer
and that will reduce the risk of dust/dirt getting between the rollers and hull ..
keeping it clean is important I guess .. there is some special paint protection film
I am going to use on the truck and I was thinking to put some on the hull where the rollers are but the friction in the water will take it off ...so an extra one or two layers of paint in that area will have to suffice...
yes you are right .. we will do a lot of travelling and thats why I try to get this sorted thoroughly .. I will use the trailer for some time for shorter trips and
all sorts of situations before we will go on a long trip ... it will be part of our home for a long time .. joining the caravan of grey nomads :)) ... in the front of the trailer I will have a guard protecting the hull against rocks etc built from grids,
which I can remove and use in the sand when it gets too soft on the beach for
launching ... so they serve two purposes ... not sure yet if I use allu or steel ...
havnt done the fianl weight calculations and that decision will be pretty much last when I know more about the rest. The main weight issue is petrol and water as well as some gadgets which would not fit on the to vehicle. It is a fun project and I guess it will take me some time to get everything sorted ... I did a rough calculation of the weights for the sake of gross weight and typical weight to get the specs for the suspension, because somewhere you have to start and also set a limit because otherwise it never ends :)) ... add this and this and this ... lol
so I will limit myself with the total weight of the trailer.
thanks for posting
gmd

i built my own tilting trailer using rhs and weight was not a problem to get plenty of strenght, the sliding centre drawbar does not have to be particularly heavy rhs if u are careful not to back the boat up over any sort of obsticals(if there is only straight push and pull and no great side pressure created by one set of wheels being stopped).
With leaf springs and especialy duel axel set up i am yet to see the vehicle or trailer ride smoothly if for no other reason than the leaf springs are way to short if u go this way u will definately need a load share set up, if the chap says he will have trouble alining the independant type suspension then he will also have trouble alining the tandem axels and to tow inline with the vehicle.
With the trailer i would use alloy checker plate (or smooth plate) to cover in wheel arches(insdes) and cover the whole floor and with a guard up the front the likely hood of getting a stone chip will be very close to nil.
It willbe interesting to see a photo of the end product.
Good luck.

Mattie

Gday gmd

I run such low pressures on the road for similar reasons as on gravel. The roads have some pretty good sharp bumps and potholes etc so I make the tyres do a bit of work. the 22 pounds gives me the +4 when hot, and I haven't popped one yet. It is a little dificult with your clearance issue being a stern drive. my Honda 90 trims up a long way and it isn't a problem. Your boat, being fiberglass and stern drive will obviously be a lot heavier than my outboard/Aluminium, Having said that, I have met a few people that swear by a well supported 'glass boat on rough tracks as Alluminium flexes and fatigues. When I get home on Wednesday, I'll take a couple of photo's and put them in my rig pics

Cheers Andrew

Thanks Andrew ..
the boat is around 1900kg .. yes its a bit heavier than alluminium and I
need good support on corrugations... I have sent an email to Vehicle Components
asking them about saltwater and their shocks and airbags .. I was very impressed by that concept they are using ... at the moment I primarily have to make the decision which kind of suspension I am going to use and especially how many wheels 4 or 6.
I want water and fuel tanks as well as some other storage on that trailer so stability is the main concern and of course total weight .. as I said before I have to put
a limit somewhere ... I need to decide on the number of wheels because I throw all my parts in the truck when it comes over from the US in October. I can not buy the rims in Australia when I want the same as on the truck .... but that might be a discussion when I go 3 axle .. I just might use some popular local hubs and wheels.
regards
gmd

Mikee5,

single axle was never a thought. the boat is 18'+ so dual axle is the only option
You can do dual axle with IS or
load share .. at the moment I tend towards load sharing ..
I have been thinking about swinging it sideways .. a bit like those
trailers where you can swing back the front part with the hitch but
this solution does not allow for a really long extension .. the slide through
solution has its merits since you can use the full length of the trailer if you
wanted to. Some beaches are shallow and you need a fair way in, but you dont want to take the truck too far especially when you are travlling alone and cannot secure
it with a winch cable at a solid point ... I think that slide through idea is a good one
I just have to see what tanks I get fitted and if I have the room through the middle
otherwise I will use a separate extension which I store on the trailer under the boat
thanks for posting
gmd

I had a look at the swing arms .. the Cruisemaster with Airbags in a load sharing two axle independent configuration looks really nice .... very interesting ..
thanks for that info ... I was looking at 12x.com.au in Brisbane ... I am in Perth but I will pick up my new boat in Brisbane mid December and I might just have the trailer made over there ... Do you have an email or anything from this Ryan Bell ?
Thanks for posting
gmd

Belcocustomtrailers.com.au Rian Bell on 07 3205 7955. I saw him in Brisbane, designed the trailer with him, then he shipped it to Adelaide for me. It cost me approx $6500 with spares etc, so don't expect something cheap if you want a trailer that will go the distance. At the time I could not find another builder who could assure me of a track record and knowhow to do the job I needed.

thanks for that info ..
and no .. I do not expect it to be cheap :)) ...
just my rims are already US$800 and thats already a US$200 discount ..
Speacially machined hubs and disc brakes from Martins Trailer Parts
add to the bill .. I have their quote and it's actually not too bad .. but it all
adds up ..
Really appreciate all the posts here .. thanks
gmd

Do you have pics from your camper setup ?
I also am thinking about a pull out kitchen and storage
for the generator, the winch mate and a few other things
including a pressure cleaner ... would love to see that
setup ... I guess that air suspension is the way to go really.
I will further look into that possibility ..
I see your point about the brake connection but I do not see areal problem
there .. that can be solved ...

thanks guys
really good ideas ... I will upload pics when I get to the stage
of implementation ..

regards
gmd

Vincent,

isn't it interesting how "old technology" can hold up .. :))
Could it be that the timber frame just has more flex and absorbes
vibrations better than any steal frame ? Joints with timber can flex..
steal and allu joins break off when stressed beyond their strength ..
I am sure that a timber trailer might have its advantages, but then there
is weight ...

You raise some valid points and one thing I am constantly thinking about
is pressure distribution of the skid/rollers or combination of it and how
to tie down the boat effectively so that is does flex where required but
not come off ....

Witha bit of research so far and some of the suggestions here I am convinced
that the only sensible solution fo me is an independent suspension with
airbags ... flexibiliy, less impact from one side to the other and flexible
suspension stiffness depending on load and terrain ..

I have purchased the new boat with my boating requirements in mind and not my 4wd requireements. We are prepared to leave the boat at places and do a loop and pick it up again but Cape York is definately a destination I would like to go with the boat and stay for a few weeks or months up there. I have a cabin cruiser
with 6.5m length so yes the length is an issue in bends especially with some extra
cm in the front for storage .. more so is the width of such a boat ... mine is pretty much at the legal limit of 2.5 which is not a big deal on the road .. BUT ... on the track ... since we do not rush from point to point and do Perth Darwin and back in two weeks or worse I am not too worried accepting detours or retuns if things
get hairy ... when we travel we have time .. lots of time ... and until then
I hope I have enough experience travelling with this boat that I can handle a long off road trip ... we will mostly stay along the coasts anyway and if we really go inland I will store it somewhere and pick it up later on ... so I do not try to set silly records .. I just try to create a reasonable solution ..
thanks for posting
gmd