3lt TD Patrol EGR story

Submitted: Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 21:52
ThreadID: 36875 Views:5999 Replies:8 FollowUps:20
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Ive posted before about the EGR blank off and my experiences, and I notice an very interesting post a few days ago about lower exhaust temps, Anyway as I've said before I've blocked off mine and a number of others with no problems and no noticable improvements, until yesterday. A mate/customer brought his GU in for a headlight bulb about a week ago, the extended warranty on this vehicle had just lapsed. I've been pestering him for ages to block his EGR but he refused as he was concerned about warranty if she did blow. This GU is owned since new and has all ways had a very slight flat spot between 1500-2000 rpm and is noted during gear changes. Nissan had quite a few goes at it with no success and I was under the impression it may have even been the auto "flareing" on change. Anyway the owner didn't really worry about it that much and learnt to live with it. (129000kms). So last week when it was in we blocked the EGR off when changing the bulb and sent him on his way without telling him. (dont worry about the ethics, his brother in law works for me and I'd cover him if something went wrong). He rang me that night and questioned me what we had done as it had never run so well. I told him we put fuel conditioner in it, and he now wants to by a 20lt drum of it!!!. So since then hes been away towing his boat for the weekend and reckons he gets about 60k's a tank further with it as well. This is the first vehicle that I've had first hand knowledge of improving drivabillity by blocking the EGR and I thought I'd add the story to the forum.

PS I still haven't told him about blocking it off yet, I might unblock it a next service and see what happens (thats what mates are for)
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Reply By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 22:03

Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 22:03
Hi there Phil, would be very interesting to see what happens when you put back to normal when he comes back in for a service or what ever and you change back to how it was and see what he says after he's driven it back home. When you do it keep us informed would be great to hear his response in regards to performance. Lets just hope nothing goes bang since you have done it or you will have some explaining to do even if it is not in relation to what you have done.Try and convince one bleep off brother in law that the 20k rebuild had nothing to do with what you changed around.Regards Steve M
AnswerID: 189580

Reply By: _gmd_pps - Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 22:43

Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 22:43
This is a well know fact for US vehicles.
Just been through that for my brand new truck .. to block the EGR before
all the soot getting sucked back in .. the problem with mine is that it will throw
engine codes and needs a litlle override trick in form of some wires to prevent
this from happening ... This is mostly done when people put larger exhausts on
and have increased airflow or should I say sootflow to the intake. On
www.dieselplace.com is a great deal to read about it, but of course only about
US vehicles. EGR is as useless as ....(you fill it in ) ... and only is a half hearted
attempt to reduce emissions ... push biodiesel and the engines don't have to
be castrated ... I will not know what my engine is like without it because I am not going to drive it for even 100 miles with an open EGR ...
BUT: You seem to be in the trade so you will know ! I guess it makes your vehicle not only a warranty issue but also a legal issue when you get caught ... but what coppa would smell your exhaust ... lol ...
regards
gmd
AnswerID: 189582

Reply By: nonon - Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 23:34

Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 23:34
You hope this guy doesn't take to your face with crowbar when he finds out. I would!
AnswerID: 189586

Follow Up By: Diesel Power - Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 08:22

Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 08:22
Interesting thought....amazing what people sitting behind computers say at times, do you have ANY knowledge of what an EGR actually does????
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Follow Up By: Notso - Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 08:50

Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 08:50
Mate, you sound limke you do, why don't you tell us so we all know how smart you are?
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Follow Up By: Phil12345 - Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 16:32

Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 16:32
Thats why this guy is a mate/customer and you will never be either with the thug comments.
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Follow Up By: nonon - Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 18:28

Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 18:28
Mate, put yourself in his position. You suggested doing something to his car which you advise will be an improvement, but he says NO....and more than once by the sounds of it. You do it anyway and don't tell him, instead you tell all of us!

Have the words MEET MY LAWYER come to mind yet?
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Reply By: Snowy 3.0iTD - Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 11:48

Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 11:48
Phil

What sort of material did you use for the blanking plate stainless or regualr steel, I don't suppose you have some dimensions that I could get blanking plate made from?
-Diameter of the hole to be blocked
-Bolt hole size
-Distance between bolt hole centres

Or did you just use a gasket as a template? Are there any noticable improvements in fuel economy or just improved power?

Thanks in advance

Snowy
AnswerID: 189649

Follow Up By: Phil12345 - Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 16:29

Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 16:29
I make mine out of stainless sheet as I've got heaps hanging around, regular sheet wouldn't matter, I don't get that technical with mesurements etc, i just trace around the old gasket and punch the bolt holes then seal it up with the gasket and purple loctite sealant. about 20mins all up to make and fit (about as long a replacing the headlight bulb behind the battery). I did my GU about a year ago, see the post about 2 weeks ago. I did it to avoid motor melt down issues and I did not notice any difference in performance or economy (it always ran very well). I think the one I blocked the other day must have had a EGR or ECU issue as the driveability and economy apparently inproved.
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Follow Up By: 120scruiser (NSW) - Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 21:37

Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 21:37
Snowy just go to Nissan and buy another gasket for the top of the EGR Pipe to Inlet manifold. I have a stack in my workshop as I Have plates already made ready for the job. You can get a piece of steel sheet metal and trace around the gasket then cut out with tin snips. Undo the top pipe, pry back pipe and then insert the plate with a gasket either side. Refit bolts and presto conversion done.
In my workshop I completely remove the pipe and check the lower surface for warping, sand it flat on a sheet of glass and then re-install with new lower gasket. See my post below.
Best mod you will ever do.
Cheers
120scruiser
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Reply By: Member - andrew B (Kununurra) - Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 14:29

Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 14:29
Just a quick question, will blocking the vacuum hose to the valve leave the valve open or closed?

Cheers Andrew
AnswerID: 189664

Follow Up By: Snowy 3.0iTD - Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 14:54

Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 14:54
Andrew

Not sure if it will do anything, as I believe (not 100% sure) that this valve is open and closed by a servo-stepper motor, so that the position of the vavle can be controlled to open a certain percentage rather than just open or shut. to the best of my knowledge though the opening of the valve is controlled from the ECU according to throttle postion, coolant temp and a few other bits. Stopping the operation of this valve may cause the ECU to go in to 'Limp Home Mode'. Best way is to just block the intake on the manifold, so that they system is still functioning normally, but none of the recyled exhaust gas actually goes back in to the engine. When I get around to doing this I may put together a bit of a procedure and drawings to make a blanking plate along with my experience to go in to 4wheelingOz magazine.

Cheer

Snowy
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Follow Up By: Member - andrew B (Kununurra) - Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 14:59

Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 14:59
Mine's the 2.8, not the 3.0. It has a vacuum pipe going to the valve, I can suck it and hear the open and close, I just don't know which is which. I may have to pull it apart to find out....just looking for an easy answer.

Thanks Andrew
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Follow Up By: Phil12345 - Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 16:36

Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 16:36
Blocking the hose on a 2.8 with make it stay closed.
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Follow Up By: Member - andrew B (Kununurra) - Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 16:43

Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 16:43
Thanks Phil

Kink and cable tie here we come.
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Follow Up By: Phil12345 - Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 16:55

Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 16:55
slip a ball bearing into the hose, never leak and will look heaps better
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Follow Up By: Member - andrew B (Kununurra) - Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 17:39

Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 17:39
hard to detect as well for the authorities - not allowd to block pollution gear - thanks
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Reply By: Chaz - Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 18:34

Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 18:34
Thanks for the feed back Phil. I did mine last week and immediately noticed an increase in torque below 2000rpm and lower average EGT’s.
I read an interesting site the other day that confirmed that it is reasonably common practice in Europe on these models. They are suggesting that we block it off at the inlet manifold AND at the exhaust flange coming into the EGR valve. They also suggest to adjust the VNC to compensate for the additional boost that will be available due to the EGR being sealed off. I’m not sure of the importance of doing this though because I haven’t seen any significant rise in boost as the boost controller seems to cut in at around 16psi to drop it off. There is a noticeable rise in the speed that the boost comes on at though.
Personally I think this is very valuable information for any ZD30 owner and I for one am very keen to see the long term affects of doing this, considering the numbers of failures in Europe seem to have made a decline.
This is the LINK to the French site I was referring to, showing the mods. An interpreter would be good because I tried web translations and it still doesn’t make sense, but the images are clear enough.

Cheers
Chaz
AnswerID: 189686

Follow Up By: angler - Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 22:23

Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 22:23
thats a great site, pics are very clear, I wonder if the main exponent of this mod could pinch the pics and do a write up? I look forward to hearing more about this mod.

So many posts on the forum i will have to save the post number for later checks.

Pooley
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Follow Up By: hl - Saturday, Aug 19, 2006 at 07:32

Saturday, Aug 19, 2006 at 07:32
Hi Chaz,

On reading the french page, it seems that the adjustment on the turbo is actually to increase boost. As it is said to turn the adjustment and then drive to see if the ECU activates safe mode. I would say it is probably best left as is and your readings seem to confirm that.

Anyway, it seems to be quite a common thing to do..........

Cheers
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Reply By: 120scruiser (NSW) - Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 21:33

Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 21:33
Hi Phil.
I have done a few in my workshop just using plain steel.
Just wondering if you take the pipe from EGR to inlet manifold off or just pry it back?
I took one off today, 109 000 km and it was probably 45% blocked. Cleaned it out and put the plate in with a genuine gasket on both sides. I took the pipe right off to check the bottom end for warping. Badly warped as the lower gasket was starting to leak so sanded it flat on a piece of glass and re-installed with new gasket. The owner is very pedantic with his car so will get back to me on Monday re improvements. He will notice for sure.

I did a Navara last week. The egr pipe was warming up with in seconds of start up. Now as far as I know it shouldn't operate until operating temp so I suspected it of being stuck open. Well it may be stuck open but nothing getting through now.

I will report findings on this site. I have taken photos of the procedure so will place them on my website and post the link when done for those who are interested.

Cheers
120scruiser
AnswerID: 189719

Follow Up By: nonon - Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 23:39

Friday, Aug 18, 2006 at 23:39
Is it true that when using the "heat" button to raise the idle, it utilises the EGR to warm the engine more quickly?
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Follow Up By: mattie - Sunday, Aug 20, 2006 at 10:37

Sunday, Aug 20, 2006 at 10:37
Hi 120scruiser
would be very interested to see this.

Mattie
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Reply By: madCrow - Sunday, Aug 20, 2006 at 03:56

Sunday, Aug 20, 2006 at 03:56
Hi Phil12345
I read ur post with interest noting that yourself & the other forumites were referring to 3 litre 2.8 litre GU's, can ur procedure (the blocking of the EGR) be done to 4.2 TD GU's & what if any would be the noticeable changes to it's running, performance, etc., etc...?
Thank's for any advice or recommendation u can give.

madCrow
AnswerID: 189841

Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Sunday, Aug 20, 2006 at 07:44

Sunday, Aug 20, 2006 at 07:44
madCrow, it depends on the 4.2 as ones earlier than the intecooled version I don't know.

I have an intercooled one that seems to have a screw stuck in it's vacuum control to the EGR valve, so that it hasn't opened in a while. It is slightly smokey on startup but better power and economy from it.
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Follow Up By: madCrow - Sunday, Aug 20, 2006 at 15:41

Sunday, Aug 20, 2006 at 15:41
Hi John
Sorry I forgot to say what type of 4.2 my truck is, it's a '03 TD6 wagon with intercooler, still under warranty.
The suggestion of the steel ball bearing is very appealing as it is minimalist in viewing by the service boys @ Nissan!
Am I right in thinking its not all doom & gloom in relation to the 4.2 with intercooler, that there may be some positive benefits with blocking off of ERG.

cheers
madCrow
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Follow Up By: madCrow - Sunday, Aug 20, 2006 at 15:45

Sunday, Aug 20, 2006 at 15:45
Whoops!!! Forgot the Question mark (?) at the end of sentence, apologies to those who make notes of grammatical errors & spelling!!!!!!!!!!!

a reserved madCrow
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Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Sunday, Aug 20, 2006 at 15:53

Sunday, Aug 20, 2006 at 15:53
Mine has warranty too. I really don't know the intercooler does much with the TD4.2I, just boosts the pre-intercooler air a bit. May be helps emissions ;-b
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