Renewable solar
Submitted: Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 01:42
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Barnesy
For those of you who are interested in renewable fuels and especially solar I found this on the CSIRO website. And for those who knock solar saying there isn't a way to store the energy, pure
solar power will come around and be main-stream sooner than you think.
This is the way Australia will make income in the future, exporting electricity generated from solar world-wide.
"Electricity production from SolarGas™ has three stages. The first stage involves capturing the sun’s heat with the solar tower array. The tower comprises 200 closely packed mirrors that track the sun as it moves across the sky. Each mirror is concave to direct the sun’s rays to a focal point on the tower which is positioned to accommodate seasonal changes without shadowing any mirrors. Mr Stein says the design has enabled the closest packing of mirrors anywhere in the world.
The second stage is to apply the energy captured by the tower. The focal point for the mirrors concentrates the collected energy on catalyst-packed receiver tubes through which
water, vapour and natural gas flow. The heated gases react to become SolarGas™ which can then be used to power a turbine – new efficiencies coming from the fact it can deliver 26 per cent more energy than natural gas.
The third stage involves using the turbine to generate electricity".
Barnesy
Reply By: Member - Doug T (W.A) - Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 04:42
Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 04:42
How is Australia going to make income in the future, exporting electricity generated from solar world-wide.....I thought the sun shone in other parts of the world too .
Barnesy it's ok mate , I know what you mean .
it would be no good here at the moment ....it's bleep ssin down in
Perth
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Follow Up By: Barnesy - Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 05:03
Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 05:03
Oz can be an electricity exporter. The sun does shine in other parts of the world. We could sell other countries our solar technology if they don't have it. Many things favour Oz for a world solar leader. We have huge spaces to have large solar farms. It is also safe here where they will be away from attack, saboutage etc. We are the most arid country in the world and this will be used as an advantage.
I get excited by talking about the possibilities of solar.
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Follow Up By: handy - Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 09:04
Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 09:04
oz is the leader in pv tracking technology.
i work for a company called solar systems and we are leading the the world with this. we have got sun farms set up in SA and NT communities that hook into the local
grid and save them big mobs of fuel. at
hermannsburg there saving over 120,000 litres of diesel a year. cheers
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Reply By: Member - Doug T (W.A) - Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 05:13
Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 05:13
Yes I can see your excited about the possibilities of
solar power , nothing wrong with that but no place is safe from sabotage or attack in these modern times
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Reply By: Groove - Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 09:47
Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 09:47
I read a report once, probably commissioned by an oil company, that concluded that a photovoltaic cell could not in its lifetime produce the energy required to manufacture the cell in the first place. It took into account the energy required to
mine and process the aluminum frame, the glass, silicon, copper etc, also took into account the fact that if using batteries the lead acid batteries were replaced every so many years and the energy required to
mine and produce the lead etc.
Anyone else seen this type of info?
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Follow Up By: Barnesy - Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 16:57
Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 16:57
25 years ago the first computers were coming onto the market. Now my mobile phone is 10 times more powerful than these early computers. The same thing will happen with solar. All those who criticise solar watch out.
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Follow Up By: geocacher (djcache) - Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 22:18
Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 22:18
And some dick at Xerox told the inventor of the IBM to bugger off you won't be able to sell it.
I think even the CEO of IBM was quoted as saying he forecast a market for maybe 4 computers ...
Can't wait to see the Solar Tower in
Mildura when it's finished.
Dave
FollowupID:
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Reply By: _gmd_pps - Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 12:47
Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 12:47
Solar is unefficient still ...
The problem with solar is storage of energy .. you can not produce power in the night and thats when a lot is needed in industrial nations. Australia in that respect is a developing country .. not much industrie running 24/7 and tiny cities compared to the rest of the world.
I hold any bet that the worlds largest energy wasters (US and China) will rather built more atomic power plants than use solar .. especially China ...
When we get PV cells with better power output it may change ...
Atomic power has a renaissance at the moment whether Australia likes it or not.
Don't want to rain on your parade and really hope it could work, but reality is against it at the moment I guess..
regards
gmd
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Follow Up By: hl - Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 13:25
Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 13:25
Hi,
Anyone been to
White Cliffs lately?
There you have the remnants of a
Solar Power Station, built at great expense on many acres....(a few million $)
It would generate about as much juice in full sunlight as a dozen $500.00 chinese generators.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: handy - Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 13:46
Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 13:46
i used to run the
white cliffs show as
well.
when it was first set up for steam it produced 25kw
then we put in pv traking it went up to 42kw.
now at other sites we are putting out 200kw
got to start somewhere
hl how many acres you think
white cliffs is????
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Follow Up By: hl - Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 15:41
Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 15:41
Hi...
Not sure, maybe 5?
You obviously know the answer. Agree we have to start somewhere, but sometimes wonder when people carry on that don't have a clue how much power the average house really uses. Also, if you install solar cells on your roof and actually think you are going to have a surplus to feed back, remember your tariff goes up if you have a special meter installed, so you pay more all the time.
To run my place on solar cells would be just about impossible (around 40kwh/day).
To top it off, the subsidy available from time to time is about as much as the solar people installers add when they know you are getting one!
Cheers
All fun and games!
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Follow Up By: handy - Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 15:53
Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 15:53
for the operation at
white cliffs the area is about 1/2 an acre thats needed.
where i am at the moment we are producing around 1380 kwh a day.
have a look at www.solarsystems.com.au.
gives you some idea what were about cheers
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Follow Up By: Barnesy - Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 16:50
Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 16:50
Looks like a forward thinking company handy. If I had the money this is the sort of company I would invest in. In 30 years time the investment should grow handsomely. Along with obvious environmental benefits.
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Reply By: mfewster - Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 14:36
Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 14:36
This technology is developing very fast. Solar energy can now be stored at night without the use of batteries of the type we think of as batteries, in fact the CSIRO seems tobe indicating that their new storage systems could be used in vehicles totransportsolar power from one place to another-(or power vehicles at night?) The new systems are moving
well beyond the old photovoltaic cell systems. Previous cost analysis based on the old systems is just not relevant. The point of all this is that the arguments of those proponents of solar energy who for years have argued for increased assistance for Australian research in this area seems
well and truly vindicated.
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Reply By: Member No 1- Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 15:51
Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 15:51
when they can provide adequate power not only for lighting and short term appliance operation, but real energy use equipment such as heating and cooling requirements, then they might be getting somewhere....and i might invest if the ROI was good.....which it aint even with the govt grant
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Reply By: Wazza - (Vic) - Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 21:00
Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 21:00
Enviromission have been trying to get this going for a while now. Share price has been bouncing around with a few major investors showing interest ... namely the Chinese keen to invest a couple of years ago .... not sure where that went, have not followed it's progress for a year or so. All info should be at:
www.enviromission.com.au/
Looks like they have a video presentation for those interested at:
Site Link
Cheers,
Wazza
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Follow Up By: Wazza - (Vic) - Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 21:05
Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 21:05
Also looks like Discovery Channel did a segment on it:
Site Link
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Reply By: Off-track - Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 22:09
Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 22:09
The way I see it is that governments and energy companies are not interested in solar because once they are efficient/cheap enough to install in the home it will upset the consumerism economy in a big way.
The idea of having solar, at this point of its technology, is not to replace but to supplement carbon emission power generation.
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Reply By: geocacher (djcache) - Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 22:23
Monday, Sep 11, 2006 at 22:23
I think if you look at it the big developments are already on the way.
For years when people thought of solar they think as many in this thread do. They think only of photovoltaic cells.
The future of solar is in concentration systems and turbines.
The solar tower in
Mildura is one such direction, the concentration and super heating systems are others.
The PV cell is great for keeping the Engel running but I can't see it going much further than the arrays that Telstra have plastered all over the centre of Oz.
Dave
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Follow Up By: handy - Tuesday, Sep 12, 2006 at 07:13
Tuesday, Sep 12, 2006 at 07:13
i think that solar tower job fell on its arse.
could only prove 1% .
geocacher have a look at www.solarsystems.com.au. cheers
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